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[System Shock & 2] - SHODAN's Liberation Is At Hand

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  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    So like
    Why is the Fusion Cannon in the game
    It does not seem to serve any actual purpose

  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    It's really good at killing robots. Also, every game needs a BFG.

    sig.gif
  • cB557cB557 voOOP Registered User regular
    Sorce wrote: »
    It's really good at killing robots. Also, every game needs a BFG.
    The grenade launcher seems to be better than it in basically every way.

  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    The fusion cannon being broken garbage is one of the many things SS2 bugfix/rebalancing mods seek to address.

    My strategy when playing SS2 consists of this: rush to Assault Rifle.

  • DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    I need to replay SS2 sometime... my original run was years ago and I think I went Crystal Shard? Could go for something else this time, like Assault Rifle maybe. I'll probably try to play through SS:Enhanced Edition and then play through SS2 after it.

  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    cB557 wrote: »
    Sorce wrote: »
    It's really good at killing robots. Also, every game needs a BFG.
    The grenade launcher seems to be better than it in basically every way.
    Yeah, checking the Wiki, the only real advantage it has is the ammo is dirt cheap. Which can come in handy, I guess?

    sig.gif
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Awesome news!!!!


    System Shock Remake In Development, Night Dive Acquire Full Rights To Franchise

    By Adam Smith on November 12th, 2015 at 11:57 am.


    Night Dive are responsible for the recent Enhanced Edition of the original System Shock and in an interview with Fast Company, CEO Stephen Kick explained that his company have “acquired the full rights to the franchise” and have been working with the game’s original concept artist as they develop a full remake of the game. Talks about a possible System Shock 3 have also begun, although Night Dive admit they would need outside help to achieve something on that scale.

    Of a sequel, head of business development at Night Dive Larry Kuperman says: “To really do another game in that series is going to take resources and time and commitment that we don’t have, and it’s really not our core business.” However, the rights to make that sequel have now been removed from the legal limbo they appeared to exist in for so long. From the Fast Company article, Jared Newman tells the story:

    …due to confusion over who owned the series’ rights and trademarks, the only way to get System Shock 2 was to acquire an old physical copy or pirate the software, and any potential sequels were out of the question. After some digging, I found that the game’s rights wound up at a Michigan-based insurance company. A lawyer for that company told me his clients were willing to sell. Kick now tells me that this story was the catalyst for his first business deal.

    The full tale, involving trips to Guatemala and GOG is well worth reading. Along with the System Shock talk, there’s also an insight into Night Dive’s business, from discussions with Harlan Ellison about sci-fi horror adventure I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream, to failed attempts to revive No One Lives Forever.

    What we don’t have yet are details about the System Shock remake itself. Beyond the involvement of concept artist Robert Waters, there’s no information as yet. Of Waters return to the game, Kick says: “Seeing the difference between his artistic abilities back then compared to now, and his ablity to reinterpret those ideas, it’s just been really exciting for us.”

    Whether Night Dive will incorporate community work into their remake isn’t yet clear. Alice wrote about one remake last year and that project recently moved to Unity 5. You can read more about it at its IndieDB page.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    I like that they're being reasonably nebulous about a System Shock 3 and acknowledge it's not really on the cards right now. Keeping the scope to a limited objective feels plenty ambitious enough.

  • DranythDranyth Surf ColoradoRegistered User regular
    Well, Polygon now has an article about the SS1 remake along with some screenshots: http://www.polygon.com/2015/11/25/9801434/system-shock-remake-first-look-art

    I don't mind the look of it so far, obviously it's just the first room, but it looks very... authentic, I guess would be the term, just updated. Kind of neat, especially with the sliding comparison of the old and new pictures.

  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    Dranyth wrote: »
    Well, Polygon now has an article about the SS1 remake along with some screenshots: http://www.polygon.com/2015/11/25/9801434/system-shock-remake-first-look-art

    I don't mind the look of it so far, obviously it's just the first room, but it looks very... authentic, I guess would be the term, just updated. Kind of neat, especially with the sliding comparison of the old and new pictures.

    The only thing I disliked is that the serv-bots seemed a tad evil. But that's a minor quibble.

    I kinda wish they were comparing the full-screen original hud to this revamped version, because it's almost misleading.

    The actual new hud looks neat - keeping the appearance of the health / energy bars and (apparently) giving the mfds a bit of transparency are nice touches.



    on a side note, I finished SS1 recently. I think it was the first time I'd done a full run.

  • DaveTheWaveDaveTheWave Registered User regular
    SS1, Enhanced & 2 are on sale on steam right now. If anyone's interested.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    The little they've shown look super awesome.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
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  • ZxerolZxerol for the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't do so i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered User regular
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Who's Otherside? The article about the SS1 remake mentions Night Dive being the ones behind it.

    Call me skeptical on this without more information.

  • cooljammer00cooljammer00 Hey Small Christmas-Man!Registered User regular
    Wario64 is tweeting about a broken countdown that reveals System Shock 3.

    So uh, yeah.

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  • Commander ZoomCommander Zoom Registered User regular
    Already came out, back in 2007.

    (And now I'm hearing Terri Brosius asking, "Would you kindly...?")

  • MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    Already came out, back in 2007.

    (And now I'm hearing Terri Brosius asking, "Would you kindly...?")

    ...it did? I don't recall playing a third System Shock game, in name or in spirit.

    Personally I'm hoping we end up with a System Shock 1 styled game more than System Shock 2; the more Metroidvania styled formula just bit me more than the RPGesque one.

  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    Who's Otherside? The article about the SS1 remake mentions Night Dive being the ones behind it.

    Call me skeptical on this without more information.

    Otherside seems to have been founded by Paul Neurath, one of the main guys behind Looking Glass Studios

    they ran a successful kickstarter for Underworld Ascendant

    I haven't found a list of personnel yet, so I don't know who Neurath roped into the new company

    edit: Nate Wells was brought in a month or so back. Art Director-type, worked with Neurath on System Shock 2.

    Tamin on
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    It feels weird that one development team handles SS1 while another does SS3, though the pedigree gives the idea merit.

    And a quick googling suggests UA is not fully released yet.

    This feels like digging a bit too greedily and too deep. If SS3 is crowdfunded in some sort I'm gonna get Comcept flashbacks.

  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    Bioshock is not a System Shock game. Sorry.

    I'm excited to try this System Shock 1 remake. System Shock 2 is one of my most favorite game of all time and sadly I never was able to give System Shock 1 a try.

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    This feels like digging a bit too greedily and too deep. If SS3 is crowdfunded in some sort I'm gonna get Comcept flashbacks.

    I actually used to work with Night Dive; I interviewed Harlan Ellison and Paul Neurath for them, so I'll see what I can dig up from Stephen. Probably not much, because NDA's and professionalism, but...

    Knowing what I know of Night Dive, they're actually unlikely to go the Kickstarter route. They've never done that before, and they have pretty good relationships with other dev studios -- they worked on a SHODAN announcer for DOTA2, for instance, with Terri Brosius already on board for that (so yes, Terri is back, and Eric might be). Furthermore, they already make money off of the other games they've licensed for re-release: the re-release of System Shock 2 alone got them a big fat wad of cash, and they've also done I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream, some games from the Wizardry series, and Bad Mojo. They didn't Kickstart any of those.

    IF they do a Kickstarter, it'll be after they've already put together the underlying framework and just to get some extra push and polish, I'd wager.

    See You Space Cowboy: a ttrpg about sad space bounty hunters
    https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    This feels like digging a bit too greedily and too deep. If SS3 is crowdfunded in some sort I'm gonna get Comcept flashbacks.

    I actually used to work with Night Dive; I interviewed Harlan Ellison and Paul Neurath for them, so I'll see what I can dig up from Stephen. Probably not much, because NDA's and professionalism, but...

    Knowing what I know of Night Dive, they're actually unlikely to go the Kickstarter route. They've never done that before, and they have pretty good relationships with other dev studios -- they worked on a SHODAN announcer for DOTA2, for instance, with Terri Brosius already on board for that (so yes, Terri is back, and Eric might be). Furthermore, they already make money off of the other games they've licensed for re-release: the re-release of System Shock 2 alone got them a big fat wad of cash, and they've also done I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream, some games from the Wizardry series, and Bad Mojo. They didn't Kickstart any of those.

    IF they do a Kickstarter, it'll be after they've already put together the underlying framework and just to get some extra push and polish, I'd wager.

    The confusing thing is that SS3 is being teased by Otherside rather than Night Dive. Maybe they're working together on it, but I haven't seen anything to that effect.

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited December 2015
    This feels like digging a bit too greedily and too deep. If SS3 is crowdfunded in some sort I'm gonna get Comcept flashbacks.

    I actually used to work with Night Dive; I interviewed Harlan Ellison and Paul Neurath for them, so I'll see what I can dig up from Stephen. Probably not much, because NDA's and professionalism, but...

    Knowing what I know of Night Dive, they're actually unlikely to go the Kickstarter route. They've never done that before, and they have pretty good relationships with other dev studios -- they worked on a SHODAN announcer for DOTA2, for instance, with Terri Brosius already on board for that (so yes, Terri is back, and Eric might be). Furthermore, they already make money off of the other games they've licensed for re-release: the re-release of System Shock 2 alone got them a big fat wad of cash, and they've also done I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream, some games from the Wizardry series, and Bad Mojo. They didn't Kickstart any of those.

    IF they do a Kickstarter, it'll be after they've already put together the underlying framework and just to get some extra push and polish, I'd wager.

    The confusing thing is that SS3 is being teased by Otherside rather than Night Dive. Maybe they're working together on it, but I haven't seen anything to that effect.

    What's probably the case is that Night Dive got the rights back, and then likely licensed the rights to Otherside to actually produce. Night Dive probably holds the rights though, they've been in negotiations with Star Insurance for years.

    Lucid_Seraph on
    See You Space Cowboy: a ttrpg about sad space bounty hunters
    https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    This feels like digging a bit too greedily and too deep. If SS3 is crowdfunded in some sort I'm gonna get Comcept flashbacks.

    I actually used to work with Night Dive; I interviewed Harlan Ellison and Paul Neurath for them, so I'll see what I can dig up from Stephen. Probably not much, because NDA's and professionalism, but...

    Knowing what I know of Night Dive, they're actually unlikely to go the Kickstarter route. They've never done that before, and they have pretty good relationships with other dev studios -- they worked on a SHODAN announcer for DOTA2, for instance, with Terri Brosius already on board for that (so yes, Terri is back, and Eric might be). Furthermore, they already make money off of the other games they've licensed for re-release: the re-release of System Shock 2 alone got them a big fat wad of cash, and they've also done I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream, some games from the Wizardry series, and Bad Mojo. They didn't Kickstart any of those.

    IF they do a Kickstarter, it'll be after they've already put together the underlying framework and just to get some extra push and polish, I'd wager.

    The confusing thing is that SS3 is being teased by Otherside rather than Night Dive. Maybe they're working together on it, but I haven't seen anything to that effect.

    What's probably the case is that Night Dive got the rights back, and then likely licensed the rights to Otherside to actually produce. Night Dive probably holds the rights though, they've been in negotiations with Star Insurance for years.

    That would make sense. Well here's hoping we get some more info soon. Thanks for digging!

  • OrogogusOrogogus San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Bioshock is not a System Shock game. Sorry.

    I'm excited to try this System Shock 1 remake. System Shock 2 is one of my most favorite game of all time and sadly I never was able to give System Shock 1 a try.

    It might not be for you, unfortunately. System Shock is a lot more like Bioshock than System Shock 2 in my opinion.

  • TychoCelchuuuTychoCelchuuu PIGEON Registered User regular
    Yeah, I mean, obviously the settings are different, but BioShock and System Shock have a lot in common, whereas SS2 is sort of the odd one out because it's burdened with a big old RPG system and all sorts of complexity.

  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Night Dive owns the rights, but they have already said that making SS3 is kinda beyond them to do it themselves, so im not surprised to see someone else contracted to do it. Wish i had heard of the company before this but if the SS1 guys are involved in it, it gives hope.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    Orogogus wrote: »
    Bioshock is not a System Shock game. Sorry.

    I'm excited to try this System Shock 1 remake. System Shock 2 is one of my most favorite game of all time and sadly I never was able to give System Shock 1 a try.

    It might not be for you, unfortunately. System Shock is a lot more like Bioshock than System Shock 2 in my opinion.

    I've seen a lot of System Shock 1 LP and I'm not seeing the Bioshock.

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    azith28 wrote: »
    Night Dive owns the rights, but they have already said that making SS3 is kinda beyond them to do it themselves, so im not surprised to see someone else contracted to do it. Wish i had heard of the company before this but if the SS1 guys are involved in it, it gives hope.

    Yeah, Paul Neurath & Night Dive have been in talks before (like I said, I actually interviewed Neurath for them a while back; you can read that here), so... yeah, I am cautiously optimistic.

    See You Space Cowboy: a ttrpg about sad space bounty hunters
    https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    In terms of story structure and moment-to-moment gameplay Bioshock is more SS2. Where it's like SS1 is you can use everything at once without putting points into stats.

  • OrogogusOrogogus San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Orogogus wrote: »
    Bioshock is not a System Shock game. Sorry.

    I'm excited to try this System Shock 1 remake. System Shock 2 is one of my most favorite game of all time and sadly I never was able to give System Shock 1 a try.

    It might not be for you, unfortunately. System Shock is a lot more like Bioshock than System Shock 2 in my opinion.

    I've seen a lot of System Shock 1 LP and I'm not seeing the Bioshock.

    - Weapons, grenades and drugs are stored in a list
    - There's no inventory tetris - inventory items all take one slot
    - There are no stats, skills or classes
    - There is so much ammunition to be had. Scarcity isn't a thing.
    - No weapon degradation
    - No respawn cost
    - More emphasis on action than on creepiness or horror

  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    edited December 2015
    But System Shock was an adventure game. System Shock 2 was an adventure survival horror. Bioshock was a Shooter adventure . infinity was just dumb shooter.

    And frankly I'm okay with no weapon degrading or inventory management. As long as I don't have to play a fucking hacking mini game every fucking 5 good damn minutes. FUCK YOU BIOSHOCK AND FUCK YOUR GOOD DAMN HAVING MINI FUCKING GANE I FUCKING HATE YOU SO FUCKING MUCH!

    Casually Hardcore on
  • OrogogusOrogogus San DiegoRegistered User regular
    System Shock is a very shooty game. There's ammo coming out your ears, monsters are respawning, you have an energy shield, and there's more than plenty of shooting and laser rapiering. You get the flechette gun or the Skorpion and it's just BRRAAAAAAAAAAPPP. I don't know if they'll retune it in the remake, but it's very easy to get swarmed by hoppers in the reactor level, or invisible mutants.

    It's not as shooty as DOOM, but I think it's easily up there with Bioshock.

  • augustaugust where you come from is gone Registered User regular
    I love Night Dive and am glad some of the people working on the new game have System Shock credentials, but I have a feeling the budget and scope of SS3 is gonna be pretty darn small.

  • TaminTamin Registered User regular
    Orogogus wrote: »
    Orogogus wrote: »
    Bioshock is not a System Shock game. Sorry.

    I'm excited to try this System Shock 1 remake. System Shock 2 is one of my most favorite game of all time and sadly I never was able to give System Shock 1 a try.

    It might not be for you, unfortunately. System Shock is a lot more like Bioshock than System Shock 2 in my opinion.

    I've seen a lot of System Shock 1 LP and I'm not seeing the Bioshock.

    - Weapons, grenades and drugs are stored in a list
    - There's no inventory tetris - inventory items all take one slot
    - There are no stats, skills or classes
    - There is so much ammunition to be had. Scarcity isn't a thing.
    - No weapon degradation
    - No respawn cost
    - More emphasis on action than on creepiness or horror

    these are ways in which SS2 is different from both Bioshock and System Shock 1

    they are not ways in which System Shock is like Bioshock, which was CH's point

  • OrogogusOrogogus San DiegoRegistered User regular
    Someone who only played SS2, like CH, might have a significantly wrong impression.

    As far as Bioshock/SS similarities:

    - Everything-gone-wrong setting where everyone is dead or hostile, except for one or two on the other side of a transmission (and, I guess, Little Sisters)
    - Respawn chambers
    - A wholly or mostly backtrackable environment
    - Health stations
    - List-based inventory
    - Lots of environmental items that pop up their name when you look at them
    - Tons of garbage items everywhere that you don't need to pick up
    - Secondary ammunition types rather than alt fire
    - Hacking minigames (although they're not particularly bad in SS)
    - Wrench/pipe
    - More than the usual number of audio messages and logs, generally from dead people, some of whom have a running story going on
    - 4 digit keypads, and code 0451
    - Augmentations, either through tonics/infusions or hardware upgrades

    What are the elements that make Bioshock not feel like a System Shock game?

  • Lucid_SeraphLucid_Seraph TealDeer MarylandRegistered User regular
    edited December 2015
    hokai I have clarification from Stephen re: the System Shock 3 thing. His whole goal from day 1 was to get the rights to System Shock back in the hands of the original creators. I'm not sure if he sold the rights completely (I don't think so) or simply licensed SS to Otherside (more likely?) but in any case, Night Dive got the rights back, and then handed them off to Paul Neurath, who is developing the game using his studio, OtherSide.

    Thus, I do think ND will be involved in some way, just not a lot. Stephen Kick (guy who owns Night Dive) has a lot of faith in OtherSide, so, we'll see what happens.

    *e* Also, what I think we should expect out of this is more like a retroclone / game similar to the original System Shock, but with shinier graphics & less clunky gameplay.

    Lucid_Seraph on
    See You Space Cowboy: a ttrpg about sad space bounty hunters
    https://podcast.tidalwavegames.com/
  • SorceSorce Not ThereRegistered User regular
    edited December 2015
    Orogogus wrote: »
    Someone who only played SS2, like CH, might have a significantly wrong impression.

    As far as Bioshock/SS similarities:

    - Everything-gone-wrong setting where everyone is dead or hostile, except for one or two on the other side of a transmission (and, I guess, Little Sisters)
    - Respawn chambers
    - A wholly or mostly backtrackable environment
    - Health stations
    - List-based inventory
    - Lots of environmental items that pop up their name when you look at them
    - Tons of garbage items everywhere that you don't need to pick up
    - Secondary ammunition types rather than alt fire
    - Hacking minigames (although they're not particularly bad in SS)
    - Wrench/pipe
    - More than the usual number of audio messages and logs, generally from dead people, some of whom have a running story going on
    - 4 digit keypads, and code 0451
    - Augmentations, either through tonics/infusions or hardware upgrades

    What are the elements that make Bioshock not feel like a System Shock game?
    The mid-game twist (execution is different), and the Big Daddy/Little Sister dynamic (and it's effect on the gameplay and ending).

    Sorce on
    sig.gif
  • azith28azith28 Registered User regular
    Look, what made SS 1 a better then average game at the time was the progression from a pure shooter to one that was much more cerebral. It was Patient Zero of all the FPS games that decided we needed to do a bit more then just shoot things with big guns. It had maps, it had a rudimentory inventory, it made you backtrack through previous areas to progress and it had a great atmosphere and a kickass protagonist that creeped the shit out of me because it literally was the first time my computer actually talked to me.

    SS2 took all that futher, and is an amazing progression of a FPS into a more RPG-ish kind of beast.

    BioShock is a step back from SS2, and maybe a bit back from SS1 in some ways but it was also more then SS1 because of the SS2 like abilities you could gain to suppliment the guns. It had a great story, with a very SS like twist and wonderful atmosphere. No, its not really a shock game, but I can see why it felt like a spiritual successor in a lot of ways.

    The bioshock trilogy is its own beast. I loved it, even the bad parts, but it did not replace my need for more Shodan.

    Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, Morituri Sum
  • StormwatcherStormwatcher Blegh BlughRegistered User regular
    the atmosphere and ambiance and progression are completely different in SS and Bioshock.
    The progression part is particularly relevant. Your mostly railroaded through BS1, even if it's not as linear as COD, and most places are setpieces. SS is a huge fucking maze, and making progress is really fuzzy.

    Sure you shoot a lot, like in BS, but it's a completely different experience.

    Steam: Stormwatcher | PSN: Stormwatcher33 | Switch: 5961-4777-3491
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