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Final Fantasy: Baker's Dozen +1

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    jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    KingsHand wrote: »
    jclast wrote: »
    Sonos wrote: »
    Ahtari wrote: »
    characters were wierd looking. Could not get behind that.

    Also FF XII might be the only FF I dont finish. I just hate everything about the battle system and the license board. Oh and also Van and Penello. Also the story just seems like it has potential but is just so slow to develop so far I cant stand it. It's like, I know shit is going down but I just dont care. I dont care about these characters. The ones I like are in the supporting cast role so I dont really care to pregress the story cause I think they will only get marginal development.

    I think I stopped playing on some snow mountain area. Tell me it gets way better toward the end and maybe I will pick it back up.

    Also I really liked FF VIII. The story was really terrible the first time I played it but when I went back to it a while later it made alot more sense. Not saying some of it wasnt stupid, just that it got better.

    the thing that people bitched about in X (being too linear) was bitched about in XII when it wasn't linear. in XII I found you had to back off of mobs a bit and level a tad before progessing the story. so it slowed it down a bit. in X it was story story story oshit i am at the end I think i'll do stuff before I fight Sin. but the story was very linear, together and you didn't forget what was going on.

    personally ive found people who didnt like the XII battle system arent good at managing real time gameplay. basically, they just suck at the new style so they say they dont like it. not everyone of course but i think its true for the most part. to each his very own.

    thats my take on the two. X through XII I enjoyed so much more than any other earlier version.

    I'll throw in a counterpoint here. I'm managing XII's battle system just fine, but all of my characters are weapon-based fighters that dabble in white magic. If that's what SE was going for, that's fine. I like beating the snot out of things, but it's sometimes (and preferred by some) to have a slower system that lets you think more and have tighter control over everything.

    For example, I used lots of mages in FFT. Because I could take my time and plan out exactly what I wanted them to do. I also used magic in FFX. I could look at an enemy, remember he's weak to ice, swap Lulu in and magic him to death.

    The gambit system in XII should be combating this, but it takes so long to get gambits that lend themselves to magic use that most magic has outlived its usefulness by the time you get them.

    Then don't use the freaking gambits. Did you not know you could manually control your characters during a fight? The gambits are not and were not intended to replace user control in fights, they're to automate commonly used tasks like curing poison and such. Obviously you can make more "advanced" gambits, but if you're expecting to make a character with a gambit for every situation and let them play themselves you're going to be sorely disappointed.

    And the battle speed? One; there's a battle speed adjuster in settings. Two; you can make it so the battle pauses when you're in a menu. How much slower could you possibly want it? You can make it slower than FFIV, which was the first ATB FF game. In fact the battle system in FFXII is more akin to FFIV-VII than anything else. It's almost identical to those games with the main difference being the "view" of the battle is in real time instead of spawned. Huge difference there.

    I'm not saying the game is bad or that I'm not enjoying it. As a matter of fact I think the game is wonderful and I'm enjoying immensely. I'm just saying if you like the gambit system - which I do - then the game has a slant toward physical attack characters over magic users.

    Which is fine with me. In most RPGs that aren't stop-and-wait turn-based I usually use a team that beats the shit out of things and heals occasionally.

    Maybe the problem lies with me? I don't know. I was just trying to add a counterpoint to an interesting conversation.

    jclast on
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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Sonos wrote: »
    jclast wrote: »
    I'll throw in a counterpoint here. I'm managing XII's battle system just fine, but all of my characters are weapon-based fighters that dabble in white magic. If that's what SE was going for, that's fine. I like beating the snot out of things, but it's sometimes (and preferred by some) to have a slower system that lets you think more and have tighter control over everything.

    For example, I used lots of mages in FFT. Because I could take my time and plan out exactly what I wanted them to do. I also used magic in FFX. I could look at an enemy, remember he's weak to ice, swap Lulu in and magic him to death.

    The gambit system in XII should be combating this, but it takes so long to get gambits that lend themselves to magic use that most magic has outlived its usefulness by the time you get them.

    i agree but coming from a strong FFXI background where everyone bitched about mages being too strong...I didnt mind melees getting some love. Paladin fest was nice since that was my main in the MMO :P

    Magic wasn't needed but it was fun. You know you can say the same about the really early games. On 1 and 2 my WHMs were there just in case...but half the time they just melee. same with BLM.

    Time and Green magic were virtually required for most of the game. I think that's great; there hasn't be a FF game since Tactics, which wasn't even a FF game, where buffing and debuffing was so vital. I do wish attack magic had been a bit more powerful, or at least scaled better at higher levels, but the powerful spells were still powerful. I think a lot of the problem with attack magics (sorry, not spelling it with a k) in FFXII was that many players either intentionally or inadvertently got gear that was far too powerful for most of the game, as I mentioned in an earlier post, which made the attack magics seem weak; whereas if you played through without getting level 50 weapons at level 10, you'll likely find that all the way up to the Pharos, Black magic and other attack spells are really effective in many situations. After the Pharos you have melee weapons that can considerably out damage most of the non-nuke spells, but at that point many bosses, espers and hunts have phases or are outright immune to physical so you're required to use those spells that "seem" weaker at that point. It's like the developers knew melee at that point was way more powerful but didn't want to have the player never cast spells in the higher end stuff.

    EDIT: purposely didn't include FFXI in my statement about buffing etc. I don't have any problem with FFXI, but if any FF game isn't a FF game, it's FFXI. IMO obviously. But I'm still a sucker and go back to FFXI every once in awhile.

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    SpaceDrakeSpaceDrake Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I like VIII and IX about the same; which is a lot. Unfortunately VIII has become one of those games where it's cool to hate it (coughhalocough). It honestlly doesn't deserve the amount of flack it gets.

    Halo 1 had very real, very demonstratable game design problems. It wasn't just "cool"; the original Halo was far from the perfect game and rightfully earned a good deal of its criticism. Ditto with VIII: especially on the last two discs, characterization problems abound. And of course, many people in this very thread have rightfully lampooned its "levelled enemies" system as not quite working right.

    And to roll with the thread, I'm a huge FFXII fanboy and even I'll admit that the liscense board, as presented in XII, is pretty easy to break and can easily lead to the characters feeling too vanilla. I actually diversified my characters deliberately based on their personalities to increase gameplay fun, but yeah, the board is too easy to break in XII. I'm hoping Revenant Wings introduces a revised board with "class bias" for each character (say, Vaan gets lower costs for thiefy and knife/1Hsword skills and higher costs for magic and heavy weapons, Penelo gets lower magic costs but has to pay through the nose for stuff like 2Hswords.)

    Also I think I'm the only person in the entire world who likes Vaan and Penny as characters. :(

    SpaceDrake on
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    The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Lehi, UTRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    SpaceDrake wrote: »
    I like VIII and IX about the same; which is a lot. Unfortunately VIII has become one of those games where it's cool to hate it (coughhalocough). It honestlly doesn't deserve the amount of flack it gets.

    Halo 1 had very real, very demonstratable game design problems. It wasn't just "cool"; the original Halo was far from the perfect game and rightfully earned a good deal of its criticism. Ditto with VIII: especially on the last two discs, characterization problems abound. And of course, many people in this very thread have rightfully lampooned its "levelled enemies" system as not quite working right.

    And to roll with the thread, I'm a huge FFXII fanboy and even I'll admit that the liscense board, as presented in XII, is pretty easy to break and can easily lead to the characters feeling too vanilla. I actually diversified my characters deliberately based on their personalities to increase gameplay fun, but yeah, the board is too easy to break in XII. I'm hoping Revenant Wings introduces a revised board with "class bias" for each character (say, Vaan gets lower costs for thiefy and knife/1Hsword skills and higher costs for magic and heavy weapons, Penelo gets lower magic costs but has to pay through the nose for stuff like 2Hswords.)

    Also I think I'm the only person in the entire world who likes Vaan and Penny as characters. :(

    I didn't dislike them; I was just rather happy to find out that Vaan wasn't actually the main character even though he was advertised as such prior to release.

    And yeah, the license board is pretty exploitable, and characters end up identical if you fill it out. Sadly this had been a problem with every FF since V with the exception of IX. Every game after that, the only difference between characters were signature attacks, which in reality were only different visually.

    No one will argue that FFVIII and Halo had a lot of problems, but I don't honestly believe that either of their failings would be so picked apart had they not been as popular or in popular IP's. If FFVIII had come out as an RPG without a FF title, I honestly doubt it'd be attacked so vehemently today, and in fact would probably stand as one of the better RPG's from that era. But because it had the FF label people regarded it unfairly because it tried something new. And we all know that people just can't stand for that. Why do you think all the "cool kids" claim that FFVI was the best FF? Because it was the last FF to just stick to the cookie cutter of previous FF's. Once Square tried to change the formula and FF's became mainstream, it was old-hat to think they were cool. It's the same asshattery that goes on with music where someone can love a band but as soon as they make it big they "sold out" and just "aren't as good as they used to be". I have no patience for that bullshit.

    And Halo? Yeah, it had it's problems, but problems or not multiplayer it was fun. That and the fact that it was the first FPS on a console that really struck a chord with gamers since Goldeneye on the N64, it was arguably the catalyst for the dominance of FPS's on consoles today. With Halo a primarily PC genre was totally taken over by consoles. And I think it remained so popular because it was like the first taste for many console gamers who never really had done the PC thing before, and though new and better FPS's came out, they weren't Halo so it was harder for them to stand out. Similar scenario as above, while other FPS's afterward were better and tried new and different things to stand out, people were stuck on that one title as how things "should be" and Halo is the FFVI of FPS's.

    EDIT: or I guess FFVII of FPS's depending on what generation you come from.

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    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    SpaceDrake wrote: »
    I like VIII and IX about the same; which is a lot. Unfortunately VIII has become one of those games where it's cool to hate it (coughhalocough). It honestlly doesn't deserve the amount of flack it gets.

    Halo 1 had very real, very demonstratable game design problems. It wasn't just "cool"; the original Halo was far from the perfect game and rightfully earned a good deal of its criticism.
    While true enough, a large number of people who throw hate at it (I won't say majority, but I'm thinking it) aren't criticizing the game design problems. They mostly bitch about stupid crap, and it very often comes off sounding like the 'i wanna sound cool' attitude, in the exact same way that many people (I won't say majority, but I'm thinking it) hail it as the god of games.

    Houk the Namebringer on
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    SonosSonos Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    SpaceDrake wrote: »

    Also I think I'm the only person in the entire world who likes Vaan and Penny as characters. :(

    Nope. Penelo was probably my favorite because she was hot in a "I'm too old and adult to be thinking these thoughts" way and I liked Vaan because he wasn't emo like most of the canon's cast. I enjoyed watching them goof around like the adventure was fun. Because it was fun.

    Basch even grew on me towards the end. The queen though...never liked her. Nice ass but she bored me.

    Sonos on
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    Katchem_ashKatchem_ash __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Why would FFXIII even come to the 360? It not even popular in Japan so such a big brand cannot come to such a weak system. In all honesty, I would rather have it stay on the PS3.

    Katchem_ash on
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    Houk the NamebringerHouk the Namebringer Nipples The EchidnaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Why would FFXIII even come to the 360? It not even popular in Japan so such a big brand cannot come to such a weak system.
    Ugh. Please, please keep this trash out of here. You have your very own JRPG thread for your mindless fanboyism, yeah?

    Houk the Namebringer on
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    Katchem_ashKatchem_ash __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2007
    Houk wrote: »
    Why would FFXIII even come to the 360? It not even popular in Japan so such a big brand cannot come to such a weak system.
    Ugh. Please, please keep this trash out of here. You have your very own JRPG thread for your mindless fanboyism, yeah?

    So I am saying this because every single time its like "ololo Sony loses 360 is the dawg!111" and they are expecting FFXIII to come which it won't.

    Katchem_ash on
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    SonosSonos Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Why would FFXIII even come to the 360? It not even popular in Japan so such a big brand cannot come to such a weak system. In all honesty, I would rather have it stay on the PS3.

    the japs would have a choice now. seriously, this is a dumb comment. i'd bet my bottom 2 dollas they would sell 2 million copies on the 360 no problem. just to curious future fanbois of the franchise who have never played it.

    Sonos on
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    hamburger helperhamburger helper Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Why would FFXIII even come to the 360? It not even popular in Japan so such a big brand cannot come to such a weak system.

    Wouldn't this be a good reason to bring it to the xbox? Last time I checked, people buy machines to play the machine's games.

    hamburger helper on
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    jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Why would FFXIII even come to the 360? It not even popular in Japan so such a big brand cannot come to such a weak system. In all honesty, I would rather have it stay on the PS3.

    Because they could sell more copies to people that don't own PS3s? Just a guess. Coming out on 360 wouldn't mean it wouldn't come out on PS3; just that it wouldn't be a PS3 exclusive.

    jclast on
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    syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products regular
    edited March 2007
    I demand that they make Final Fantasy: Bakers Dozen for the DS.


    To be honest, when I first saw the thread title, I thought that they were making a Final Fantasy themed cooking game.

    syndalis on
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    WitchsightWitchsight Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Well, going multi platform is great for the company, just not the best news for Sony. But thats a different story

    Witchsight on
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    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Why would FFXIII even come to the 360? It not even popular in Japan so such a big brand cannot come to such a weak system. In all honesty, I would rather have it stay on the PS3.

    Because people outside of Japan buy FF games. Square had shipped 1.5 million copies one week after the game had been released in NA. FFXII has sold 2.38 million copies in Japan. Non-Japanese buyers make up a huge percentage of the people who buy their games. If they think that they would sale more in NA and Europe by putting it on the 360 and if it wasn't extremely hard to port it, I don't doubt they would.

    Couscous on
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    Vincent GraysonVincent Grayson Frederick, MDRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    titmouse wrote: »
    Why would FFXIII even come to the 360? It not even popular in Japan so such a big brand cannot come to such a weak system. In all honesty, I would rather have it stay on the PS3.

    Because people outside of Japan buy FF games. Square had shipped 1.5 million copies one week after the game had been released in NA. FFXII has sold 2.38 million copies in Japan. Non-Japanese buyers make up a huge percentage of the people who buy their games. If they think that they would sale more in NA and Europe by putting it on the 360 and if it wasn't extremely hard to port it, I don't doubt they would.

    Seriously. SE needs to ask themselves how many 360 owners there are that love FF games, but just can't quite justify spending $600 on a system just for FF (especially if more exclusives become non-exclusives).

    Hell, they could just port FF titles to the 360 in English and ignore the Japanese market entirely, I'd wager.

    Vincent Grayson on
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    Disco BanditDisco Bandit Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    The problem with FF9, as I've said, was it came out just after Skies of Arcadia came out, and nobody can really deny that Skies was the better RPG.

    .

    I am denying this so hard right now

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    bruinbruin Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Why would FFXIII even come to the 360? It not even popular in Japan so such a big brand cannot come to such a weak system. In all honesty, I would rather have it stay on the PS3.

    O_o

    :lol:

    bruin on
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    jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Why would FFXIII even come to the 360? It not even popular in Japan so such a big brand cannot come to such a weak system. In all honesty, I would rather have it stay on the PS3.

    Because games have never sold systems before, right? FFVII on the PSX anyone?
    I'd be willing to bet that if SE supported the 360 we'd see a much higher user base in Japan.

    jclast on
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    Torso BoyTorso Boy Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    titmouse wrote: »
    Pata wrote: »
    Square's basicly discovered they can put Final Fantasy on any sort of crazy idea they have and there's a good chance it'll sell better then otherwise.

    Then why haven't they made a Final Fantasy hentai game? I'm sure it would sell billions.
    Fixed.

    The last experience I had with Final Fantasy was watching my friend play through the entirety of Dirge of Cerberus at a cottage while completely drunk.

    I think I might play XII. I think I still have a PS2 somewhere.

    Torso Boy on
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    DigDug2000DigDug2000 Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    KingsHand wrote: »
    No one will argue that FFVIII and Halo had a lot of problems, but I don't honestly believe that either of their failings would be so picked apart had they not been as popular or in popular IP's. If FFVIII had come out as an RPG without a FF title, I honestly doubt it'd be attacked so vehemently today, and in fact would probably stand as one of the better RPG's from that era. But because it had the FF label people regarded it unfairly because it tried something new. And we all know that people just can't stand for that. Why do you think all the "cool kids" claim that FFVI was the best FF? Because it was the last FF to just stick to the cookie cutter of previous FF's. Once Square tried to change the formula and FF's became mainstream, it was old-hat to think they were cool. It's the same asshattery that goes on with music where someone can love a band but as soon as they make it big they "sold out" and just "aren't as good as they used to be". I have no patience for that bullshit.
    Don't go trying to push you and your friends opinions off as fact here. I hated 8 because the characters and story were just way way way to melodramatic for me. Starting right with the goth designs and ending with never ending avalanche of cutscenes the game forced me to sit through. I genuinely didn't want to play it because I hated the story, and this comes from someone who generally thinks games shouldn't even bother with story. In fact, the only reason I played as far as I did in it (quitting at the last dungeon) was because it was a FF. I'm not claiming my opinion is the same as everyone in the worlds, or even of the mainstream, but I know a lot of the people on these boards didn't like it for the same reasons.

    And claiming that FF6 and below never changed the series at all is just bullshit. There are shitloads of changes between every one of them. There's been weird battle systems, weird magic systems, weird job systems. You name it, and it was pretty much done in some weird way in one of 'em. People like 6 because the systems they used in it worked well, and because it has good characters and a good plot to top it off. It has nothing to do with wanting to be cool. Its because FF6 is a good game.

    DigDug2000 on
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    jclastjclast Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    KingsHand wrote: »
    No one will argue that FFVIII and Halo had a lot of problems, but I don't honestly believe that either of their failings would be so picked apart had they not been as popular or in popular IP's. If FFVIII had come out as an RPG without a FF title, I honestly doubt it'd be attacked so vehemently today, and in fact would probably stand as one of the better RPG's from that era. But because it had the FF label people regarded it unfairly because it tried something new. And we all know that people just can't stand for that. Why do you think all the "cool kids" claim that FFVI was the best FF? Because it was the last FF to just stick to the cookie cutter of previous FF's. Once Square tried to change the formula and FF's became mainstream, it was old-hat to think they were cool. It's the same asshattery that goes on with music where someone can love a band but as soon as they make it big they "sold out" and just "aren't as good as they used to be". I have no patience for that bullshit.

    Final Fantasy has reinvented itself with each iteration since the series began.
    FFI: Pick from classes. They get a class change half through the game.
    FFII: Hugely different magic system.
    FFIII: Boo no American release! Hooray Job System!
    FFIV: Rotating cast of specialized characters.

    And that's just the first four. You may not like the early installments or the late installments or specific games for whatever reason, but that reason should be that SE either is or isn't sticking to the cookie-cutter RPG schema. It seems almost like a point of pride for them now that each FF delivers a different RPG experience than its predecessors. Hell, even X-2 - a direct sequel - didn't have the same system as its predecossor.

    jclast on
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    agoajagoaj Top Tier One FearRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Where are the Final Fantasy VI moves Square? I want to see Tim Woods as Kefka and Richard Gere as Setzer.

    agoaj on
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    CokomonCokomon Our butts are worth fighting for! Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    agoaj wrote: »
    Where are the Final Fantasy VI moves Square? I want to see Tim Woods as Kefka and Richard Gere as Setzer.

    Where are the Final Fantasy spin-off showcases besides VII and XIII from Square? Other games in the series are lucky to get one extra game. I want to see a VI or VIII sequel or spin-off or something, damnit. If you're going to pander, Square, do it right! I can't get excited about 4 games in the XIII series because I haven't played XIII. However, I have played the other two listed and would like to see more pieces of entertainment based in their universes.

    Cokomon on
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