So nobody knows? I'd settle for a basic explanation of which weapon types are effective or ineffective against which resistance types, although knowing how much of a difference it actually makes would be nice.
So nobody knows? I'd settle for a basic explanation of which weapon types are effective or ineffective against which resistance types, although knowing how much of a difference it actually makes would be nice.
This isn't ME2 where some weapon types do more damage than other based on defense.
For the most part, you want to worry about shield gating and armor.
Shield gating makes it so whenever a bullet would break an enemies shield, a portion of that bullets damage is negated entirely. Its about 50% on bronze I believe, and 75% on the other difficulties. Rapid fire weapons and shotguns really don't care about this, while it can be something to keep in mind for single shot or slow firing guns.
Then there is armor. Armor is the yellow health bar that some enemies have. What did does is causes a flat damage reduction for every bullet that hits the enemy. I believe that's -15 on bronze, -35 on Silver, and -50 on Gold and Plat. Basically, on Gold, if a bullet does 100 damage it would instead do 50 damage. And if a bullet does 50 damage, it would do 5 damage because even if a bullet's power is under armor negation it will always at least do 5 damage. There are ways around this of course but that's the basics.
There are also weapons that get bonuses/penalties against certain defenses but those are few.
Really, powers and ammo types are what you want to look at when you're trying to see what's effective against what.
Armor shaves off a flat amount for each shot. Varies by difficulty but is 50 at gold. Fire does double damage. Some powers have evolutions that make them do more damage to armor. The Typhoon and Collector SMG do 1.5x damage to them. Some powers have no effect on armor.
Shields have a set value and then reduce the amount of damage that carries over to health by a certain percentage when the shields drop. Some powers have evolutions that make them more effective. Guns like the Reegar and Acolyte do massive (8X?) damage to them. Some powers have no effect until shields have dropped.
Every weapon and power has a hidden damage multiplier on the 3 resistance types (Armor, Barriers, and Shields). Most of these are 100%, meaning they do normal damage to that resistance type. A value of 50% means half damage to that resistance type, and a value of 200% means double damage. Below are the multipliers for some of our weapons and powers.
OK, thanks. I was under the impression that it worked like ME2.
However, according to that math, shouldn't that mean that rapid fire weapons would be the most effective to use against armor, given that they would lose the least amount of damage potential due to the 5 damage minimum? While actually playing I've found the opposite to be the case, where pistols and sniper rifles seemed to do the most damage to armor, while assault rifles and smgs were seemingly useless against it. That could have just been confirmation bias though.
OK, thanks. I was under the impression that it worked like ME2.
However, according to that math, shouldn't that mean that rapid fire weapons would be the most effective to use against armor, given that they would lose the least amount of damage potential due to the 5 damage minimum? While actually playing I've found the opposite to be the case, where pistols and sniper rifles seemed to do the most damage to armor, while assault rifles and smgs were seemingly useless against it. That could have just been confirmation bias though.
Most single-shot weapons do considerably more per shot. Let's pretend you take a gun that fires once per second at 700 DPS. Every time you hit armor, you lose 50 damage, so you are down to 650 DPS.
Let's pretend you have a rapid-fire gun, 10 rounds per second at 70 damage each, so 700 DPS. Since you take 50 off of every shot, you lose 500 DPS, for a final count of 200 DPS.
Rapidfire weapons and shotguns need armor-piercing mods to be as good against armor.
OK, thanks. I was under the impression that it worked like ME2.
However, according to that math, shouldn't that mean that rapid fire weapons would be the most effective to use against armor, given that they would lose the least amount of damage potential due to the 5 damage minimum? While actually playing I've found the opposite to be the case, where pistols and sniper rifles seemed to do the most damage to armor, while assault rifles and smgs were seemingly useless against it. That could have just been confirmation bias though.
Most rapid fire weapons do very small damage per shot, so they're losing a huge percentage of their damage. A sniper rifle on the other hand, might do something like 1000 damage per shot, so that 50 ends up being a small percentage.
Shotguns also lose a great deal of damage to armor, since most shoot 8 pellets at a time, meaning without mods they lose 400 damage per shot.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
OK, thanks. I was under the impression that it worked like ME2.
However, according to that math, shouldn't that mean that rapid fire weapons would be the most effective to use against armor, given that they would lose the least amount of damage potential due to the 5 damage minimum? While actually playing I've found the opposite to be the case, where pistols and sniper rifles seemed to do the most damage to armor, while assault rifles and smgs were seemingly useless against it. That could have just been confirmation bias though.
No.
Most rapid fire weapons have very low per bullet damage, while most slower firing guns have very high per bullet damage.
Say you fire 40 50 damage bullets on Gold with no armor negation.
That's 40x5 = 200
Compared to the 40x50 = 2000 damage it would normally do. You're basically losing 90 percent of your damage output.
Compared that do a Sniper Rifle that does 500 per shot and has a 3 round mag or whatever.
3x450 = 1350
Compared to 3x500 = 1500
So you've only lost about 10% of your damage potential.
Yeah I didn't think that the differences in per-bullet damage were that massive. I was thinking in terms of a 6 damage/shot smg losing 1 damage per shot vs say, a 40 damage/shot pistol losing 35 damage on silver, for example.
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited February 2013
Ugg, hate this weekend challenge. Two reserves packs and still no Krogan or Batarian Soldier It really should have been the Avenger OR the Inferno Grenades. Requiring an ability only available to two classes sucks
Edit: Ha, and right after I bitch my 3rd reserves pack has a Krogan Soldier in it So yay, challenge done. Still, they need to cut it out with these challenges that require super specific characters to do (or at least give us better odds by picking stuff that can be done with more than two characters)
Those six characters look great, but I wonder if there are any "extra" characters like with the last DLC. I want a salarian sentinel so I can pretend to be this guy every match:
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Well. There were three Salarians in the Salarian banners and only two Salarians out currently.
So Salarian Sentinel might be a possibility.
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
holy shit those characters look awesome, if they're real.
I only have 300K saved up, because I don't play this game nearly enough anymore. Got the Eagle X in my commendation pack, making it my first UR at level X. feels like a waste...
Thanks to Ardol and crew for some gold games, I have now 400k saved up to dissapoint me in not getting anything new. I figure batarian soldiers and cerb adepts!
And I have converted to the church of the acolyte after going 130k on gold on rio. She's a tricksy bitch but I'm getting the hang.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
ComradebotLord of DinosaursHouston, TXRegistered Userregular
I'm up to 600k saved up. Not much, but neither is my free time right now.
Shame I gotta study: it'd be fun to shoot some stuff with the KHP right now.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I've found I have a lot of fun when the MP when I just play instead of grinding out challenges.
That said...I just like the Earth classes too much. I've pretty much completed them three times over while I still have finished most of the other alien things once(even though they take a lot more time).
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Olivawgood name, isn't it?the foot of mt fujiRegistered Userregular
I'm guessing they might throw out a ton of new packs in the store, based on those art assets we saw that never got used on the disc
Plus a new pack just to get some of the new classes/weapons
Just finally found the time to start getting back into the multi here. Saved up 300K so far. Not much, but still have some more time tonight and tomorrow to play.
I also had a ton of fun playing a Destroyer with the Particle Rifle and Collector Sniper Rifle. Lasers! Lasers everywhere!
Reminder: The Bioware livestream will begin in approximately 10 hours from now on the Bioware channel on twitch.tv. Be sure to check out this twitch.tv channel of one of the devs playing for a different PoV!
Possibly more leaked banners:
Last banner indicates we'll get a new Salarian. These banners are from the same source as the Collector one.
I don't see why a resurgent prothean species can't be a thing, at least in a future ME game. Two scenarios:
One: They find another cache of prothean stasis pods, but this one had enough power to last the 50,000 years. Kinda iffy, since the two on Eden Prime and Ilios couldn't hold out that log.
Two: They take Javik's DNA and mix it with the remains from Eden Prime and Ilios and clone the protheans, with or without Javik's permission. I know the salarians would do this as they sure as hell wouldn't care about Javik's consent. Hell, maybe Javik, if he's in a sequel, is especially hateful of the new prothean race.
Speaking of that, I wonder how long protheans live?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I'd rather them just be possessed Leviathan thralls, otherwise we'd go into synthesis-husks territory again.
I'd also be ok with them being Prothean. Stasis pods, clones, partially cyborgs maybe - if it's possible for Javik to survive and Shepard being brought back from the dead, I don't see why this shouldn't be possible.
Two: They take Javik's DNA and mix it with the remains from Eden Prime and Ilios and clone the protheans, with or without Javik's permission. I know the salarians would do this as they sure as hell wouldn't care about Javik's consent. Hell, maybe Javik, if he's in a sequel, is especially hateful of the new prothean race.
Also, Javik and Mordin did have a conversation about this very thing. Javik said if he wanted a sample, he'd have to beat him in a fight. Problematic... but still doable, I'd think.
0
chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
Two: They take Javik's DNA and mix it with the remains from Eden Prime and Ilios and clone the protheans, with or without Javik's permission. I know the salarians would do this as they sure as hell wouldn't care about Javik's consent. Hell, maybe Javik, if he's in a sequel, is especially hateful of the new prothean race.
Also, Javik and Mordin did have a conversation about this very thing. Javik said if he wanted a sample, he'd have to beat him in a fight. Problematic... but still doable, I'd think.
The real problem would be keeping Javik from murdering the other Protheans the second they were born.
Or giving you a fake tissue sample that releases a flesh eating virus.
Or one of any number of things, because Javik is a dick.
Posts
This isn't ME2 where some weapon types do more damage than other based on defense.
For the most part, you want to worry about shield gating and armor.
Shield gating makes it so whenever a bullet would break an enemies shield, a portion of that bullets damage is negated entirely. Its about 50% on bronze I believe, and 75% on the other difficulties. Rapid fire weapons and shotguns really don't care about this, while it can be something to keep in mind for single shot or slow firing guns.
Then there is armor. Armor is the yellow health bar that some enemies have. What did does is causes a flat damage reduction for every bullet that hits the enemy. I believe that's -15 on bronze, -35 on Silver, and -50 on Gold and Plat. Basically, on Gold, if a bullet does 100 damage it would instead do 50 damage. And if a bullet does 50 damage, it would do 5 damage because even if a bullet's power is under armor negation it will always at least do 5 damage. There are ways around this of course but that's the basics.
There are also weapons that get bonuses/penalties against certain defenses but those are few.
Really, powers and ammo types are what you want to look at when you're trying to see what's effective against what.
Armor shaves off a flat amount for each shot. Varies by difficulty but is 50 at gold. Fire does double damage. Some powers have evolutions that make them do more damage to armor. The Typhoon and Collector SMG do 1.5x damage to them. Some powers have no effect on armor.
Shields have a set value and then reduce the amount of damage that carries over to health by a certain percentage when the shields drop. Some powers have evolutions that make them more effective. Guns like the Reegar and Acolyte do massive (8X?) damage to them. Some powers have no effect until shields have dropped.
Barriers are the same as shields.
Health is health.
and some non-obvious skill properties here
but I hate using it because of the charge time and it seems pretty susceptible to lag because the shot has travel time
However, according to that math, shouldn't that mean that rapid fire weapons would be the most effective to use against armor, given that they would lose the least amount of damage potential due to the 5 damage minimum? While actually playing I've found the opposite to be the case, where pistols and sniper rifles seemed to do the most damage to armor, while assault rifles and smgs were seemingly useless against it. That could have just been confirmation bias though.
higher difficulty bosses have tens of thousands of HP
Most single-shot weapons do considerably more per shot. Let's pretend you take a gun that fires once per second at 700 DPS. Every time you hit armor, you lose 50 damage, so you are down to 650 DPS.
Let's pretend you have a rapid-fire gun, 10 rounds per second at 70 damage each, so 700 DPS. Since you take 50 off of every shot, you lose 500 DPS, for a final count of 200 DPS.
Rapidfire weapons and shotguns need armor-piercing mods to be as good against armor.
Most rapid fire weapons do very small damage per shot, so they're losing a huge percentage of their damage. A sniper rifle on the other hand, might do something like 1000 damage per shot, so that 50 ends up being a small percentage.
Shotguns also lose a great deal of damage to armor, since most shoot 8 pellets at a time, meaning without mods they lose 400 damage per shot.
No.
Most rapid fire weapons have very low per bullet damage, while most slower firing guns have very high per bullet damage.
Say you fire 40 50 damage bullets on Gold with no armor negation.
That's 40x5 = 200
Compared to the 40x50 = 2000 damage it would normally do. You're basically losing 90 percent of your damage output.
Compared that do a Sniper Rifle that does 500 per shot and has a 3 round mag or whatever.
3x450 = 1350
Compared to 3x500 = 1500
So you've only lost about 10% of your damage potential.
Edit: Ha, and right after I bitch my 3rd reserves pack has a Krogan Soldier in it
this might be a thing?
http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/343/index/16009593/1
Leviathan thrall is the word on the street
gonna need me summa dat
So Salarian Sentinel might be a possibility.
It... looks more like a prothean...
Which, you know what? At this point, final update, who the fuck even cares
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
i figure this is probably the most lore-appropriate way to scratch the prothean itch
i like it
I only have 300K saved up, because I don't play this game nearly enough anymore. Got the Eagle X in my commendation pack, making it my first UR at level X. feels like a waste...
XBL: MightyManotaur
PA: TheSecretSeventh
wait....
And I have converted to the church of the acolyte after going 130k on gold on rio. She's a tricksy bitch but I'm getting the hang.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Shame I gotta study: it'd be fun to shoot some stuff with the KHP right now.
That said...I just like the Earth classes too much. I've pretty much completed them three times over while I still have finished most of the other alien things once(even though they take a lot more time).
Plus a new pack just to get some of the new classes/weapons
Because it's the last update, man! Fuck it!
PSN ID : DetectiveOlivaw | TWITTER | STEAM ID | NEVER FORGET
I also had a ton of fun playing a Destroyer with the Particle Rifle and Collector Sniper Rifle. Lasers! Lasers everywhere!
Possibly more leaked banners:
Last banner indicates we'll get a new Salarian. These banners are from the same source as the Collector one.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
i guess
One: They find another cache of prothean stasis pods, but this one had enough power to last the 50,000 years. Kinda iffy, since the two on Eden Prime and Ilios couldn't hold out that log.
Two: They take Javik's DNA and mix it with the remains from Eden Prime and Ilios and clone the protheans, with or without Javik's permission. I know the salarians would do this as they sure as hell wouldn't care about Javik's consent. Hell, maybe Javik, if he's in a sequel, is especially hateful of the new prothean race.
Speaking of that, I wonder how long protheans live?
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I'd also be ok with them being Prothean. Stasis pods, clones, partially cyborgs maybe - if it's possible for Javik to survive and Shepard being brought back from the dead, I don't see why this shouldn't be possible.
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird
yesh
Man the diversity of this alliance is getting ridiculous.
The real problem would be keeping Javik from murdering the other Protheans the second they were born.
Or giving you a fake tissue sample that releases a flesh eating virus.
Or one of any number of things, because Javik is a dick.
Why I fear the ocean.
Honestly the two I'm most excited for are the female turian (cabal something or other aren't they?) and the Geth juggernaut.
Some more info on the livestream:
Characters played:
- Eric Fagnan: Geth Juggernaut Soldier (Live stream perspective)
- Bryan Johnson: Female Turian Cabal Vanguard (Recording of livestream session from different perspective, uploaded immediatly afterwards)
- Chris Schanche: Talon Mercenary Engineer
- Bjorn Taylor: Krogan Warlord Sentinel
Steam ID: 76561198021298113
Origin ID: SR71C_Blackbird