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[MMA]UFC 161: Old Man vs Stanky Leg - Prelims NOW!

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Posts

  • SpectrumSpectrum Super High-School Level ??? Hope's Peak AcademyRegistered User regular
    B:L wrote: »
    Once it hit the ground in side control I would have liked to see some more offense from Ronda's side control, but of course she favors the armbar position.
    My understanding is that the position is known in judo as Kesa Gatame and that it's much more focused on control over offense. The comparison I would made would be to a mounted crucifix focused on disabling and tapping on the head.

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  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Spectrum wrote: »
    B:L wrote: »
    Once it hit the ground in side control I would have liked to see some more offense from Ronda's side control, but of course she favors the armbar position.
    My understanding is that the position is known in judo as Kesa Gatame and that it's much more focused on control over offense. The comparison I would made would be to a mounted crucifix focused on disabling and tapping on the head.

    Yeah, it's a very similar situation to that catch wrestling side control video that chessboxing posted before. It's just that she was content to hold Carmouche down for quite a long while when she could have transitioned for a sub or a better offensive position.

    But hey if she was just grinding out time so that Carmouche couldn't capitalize if her armbar attempt was reversed, then she deserves even more props for her foresight.

    B:L on
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  • ChillyWillyChillyWilly Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Serious question, Beel.

    If you hate the UFC so much, then why do you watch it? Every time you spend money on a PPV or even watch a free show, you're supporting their company monetarily. You're putting money in Dana White's pocket by being a viewer (unless you pirate literally all of their shows). So what' the deal?


    By the way, for all of you that were torn up about Fitch being fired (although not one of you was willing to actually send him money because you don't really care, you just enjoy bitching about things), I read that he signed a World Series of Fighting contract. So now he can go make money with a company that is attempting to push Anthony Johnson vs. Andrei Arlovski as legitimate main event (whoopdy do).

    ChillyWilly on
    PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    Done my picks for Wand Stann, no way do I see Wand not getting his chin touched and going night night.

  • iamJLNiamJLN Penny Arcade Stallion Boston Registered User regular
    Serious question, Beel.

    If you hate the UFC so much, then why do you watch it? Every time you spend money on a PPV or even watch a free show, you're supporting their company monetarily. You're putting money in Dana White's pocket by being a viewer (unless you pirate literally all of their shows). So what' the deal?


    By the way, for all of you that were torn up about Fitch being fired (although not one of you was willing to actually send him money because you don't really care, you just enjoy bitching about things), I read that he signed a World Series of Fighting contract. So now he can go make money with a company that is attempting to push Anthony Johnson vs. Andrei Arlovski as legitimate main event (whoopdy do).

    People love to moan. I mean LOVE to moan. I've never understood such a negative and hateful mentality, but meh, they're out there.

    Also, people LOVE to pretend they hate something. Like people who spent moaning about women in the UFC but secretly could NOT WAIT to watch it, and would have cried if their recording failed.

  • Peter EbelPeter Ebel CopenhagenRegistered User regular
    I picked against Yahya, cause he looks real smug.

    In named fighters we actually know of: The Bard, the Struve (sacrilegious, I know) and the Stann.

    Fuck off and die.
  • TehSpectreTehSpectre @PixelateJake on TwitterRegistered User regular
    Marku Huntuuuu~

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  • iamJLNiamJLN Penny Arcade Stallion Boston Registered User regular
    TehSpectre wrote: »
    Marku Huntuuuu~

    ~

  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    picking every asian to lose except for stun gun

  • ChillyWillyChillyWilly Registered User regular
    And for anyone who thinks the Koscheck stoppage was early (Beel, for one), please explain how taking 4-5 shots to the head, undefended and against the cage is something that should be allowed to continue.

    Because I'm pretty sure if he would have taken a few more punches, you same people would be saying that Herb was a terrible ref for letting Koscheck take more pointless damage. Make up your mind.

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  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    815165 wrote: »
    picking every asian to lose except for stun gun

    You're forgetting Yushin Okami.

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  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    815165 wrote: »
    picking every asian to lose except for stun gun

    You're forgetting Yushin Okami.

    I went back and forth on this fight a few times, it's a great match up, but I think Lombard is going to hit Okami in the face really hard and I've heard this is bad for you.

  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    815165 wrote: »
    815165 wrote: »
    picking every asian to lose except for stun gun

    You're forgetting Yushin Okami.

    I went back and forth on this fight a few times, it's a great match up, but I think Lombard is going to hit Okami in the face really hard and I've heard this is bad for you.

    Well look at who he has lost to. It's a pretty prestigious line up. Jake Shields, Rich Franklin, Anderson Silva and. . .Tim Boestch?

    Okay well that is an outlier. Except Boestch beat Lombard.

    Now i'm confused.

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  • Venkman90Venkman90 Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    And for anyone who thinks the Koscheck stoppage was early (Beel, for one), please explain how taking 4-5 shots to the head, undefended and against the cage is something that should be allowed to continue.

    Because I'm pretty sure if he would have taken a few more punches, you same people would be saying that Herb was a terrible ref for letting Koscheck take more pointless damage. Make up your mind.

    Yeah, no way in hell was Trollcheck not done there, he was probably getting woken up every other shot. He wasn't "pushing of with his hips" or any of the other shite claimed, he was turtled up and taking heavy blows.

    Venkman90 on
  • Arson WellesArson Welles Registered User regular
    He wasn't even turtled. He had his hands up, but they were fairly limp, and he wasn't doing anything to try and stop the shots. He ate 5 unanswered, undefended, and I think it was a good stop.

  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    Having your eyes open does not mean you are conscious, let alone actively defending. Holding your head up does not mean you are conscious or actively defending. Holding your hands out in the same position while your head is being pummeled does not mean you are conscious or actively defending.

    It was a good stoppage. Probably 1-2 hits too late, in my book.

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  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    Yeah doggs. Listen to Inquistor77.

    It's really common for dudes to say "i don't remember the rest of that round" because they were out on their feet.

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  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    By the way, for all of you that were torn up about Fitch being fired (although not one of you was willing to actually send him money because you don't really care, you just enjoy bitching about things)

    That's a bullshit argument and you know it, Willy. The fact that you're bringing it up yet again shows that you've got no argument that supports the terrible policies of the UFC, so you instead attack those who argue against it. It's the equivalent of saying "If you support the safety net so much, why don't you donate all your money to welfare!?" Complete and utter BS, while ignoring the problems of the UFC. Are you happy that they might cut Aldo?

    Also Willy I don't think you did an adequate job of explaining why you think Brittney Palmer isn't beautiful. Or are you just bitching about her for the sake of it?

    And for anyone who thinks the Koscheck stoppage was early (Beel, for one), please explain how taking 4-5 shots to the head, undefended and against the cage is something that should be allowed to continue.

    Because I'm pretty sure if he would have taken a few more punches, you same people would be saying that Herb was a terrible ref for letting Koscheck take more pointless damage. Make up your mind.
    Carmouche took like 20 shots undefended to the head when Rousey had her down, so you're saying the fight should have stopped there.
    Machida took like 20 shots to the legs and body when Hendo had him down, so you're saying the fight should have stopped there.

    Was Koscheck out and not defending the shots? Either he was out and his arms limply fell to the ground, or he was out and his arms stiffened up so they weren't limp. Make up your mind.

    To me it looked like he had his arms up to defend the shots, but he was defending them terribly. But he was still conscious, not stiffened by being knocked out, not limp by being knocked out, but actively defending terribly. He could have ate more shots, or he could have recovered and won the match.

    We'll never find out because Herb Dean stopped it too early.

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  • ChillyWillyChillyWilly Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    No, it's not a bullshit argument at all. You seem to think that the UFC isn't a business and isn't trying to make money. That they are akin to a humanitarian organization of some kind. They aren't. They looked at their buyrates or internet buzz or whatever and decided that Fitch (with a record of 1-2-1) wasn't worth their money, so he got cut. Done. If you think he's worth whatever they were paying him, then start cutting some checks. Otherwise, you are insulting an entity for a thing you that you yourself are not willing to do.
    "But I don't have that kind of money!", says Beel. "That's right, Beel. Because you don't own a billion dollar business and don't know how to run one, which doesn't qualify you to speak about the decisions they make." 8->

    Alrighty...let's compare Carmouche to Koscheck. (Not even going to mention the Machida comparison because it's laughable)

    First off, tell me how many fights have been stopped because someone was being punched in the face from a headlock position. I can't think of any off the top of my head, probably because generating any real torque from that position is near impossible and it generally just gives you a bloody nose (like with Liz).

    Now let's look at Koscheck. On his back. Not defending any shots. Taking said shots from a guy who is known as a power puncher while he is standing over him and generating a ton of force with each blow. Not really making an attempt to move said guy away from him by pushing the hips with his feet. In other words, pretty much defenseless looking.

    You can blame Herb Dean all you want, but Koscheck is a veteran. He knows that if doesn't want a fight to be stopped, it is incumbent upon him to show the ref that he is still in the fight. Judging from his actions he either A) Was KO'd at some point or was close to it or B) Did not give a shit that he was being punched in the face repeatedly and decided he felt like losing. Both of these situations are Koscheck's fault and/or problem, not Herb Deans.

    I have no problem saying that I would rather see a guy take too few punches to the head than too many and that if you feel differently about that, then you're objectively wrongheaded about this whole situation.

    By the way, I love the contradiction of, "I care about these fighters' lives, unlike the UFC" and, "Man, I really wish that guy who wasn't defending the blows to his head would have gotten punched more for no good reason."

    ChillyWilly on
    PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    First off, tell me how many fights have been stopped because someone was being punched in the face from a headlock position. I can't think of any off the top of my head, probably because generating any real torque from that position is near impossible and it generally just gives you a bloody nose (like with Liz).
    Kimbo Slice vs Roy Nelson is close enough.

    "But I don't have that kind of money!", says Beel. "That's right, Beel. Because you don't own a billion dollar business and don't know how to run one, which doesn't qualify you to speak about the decisions they make." 8->

    So you aren't done with the logical fallacies, throwing in yet another one. Converse of argument from authority, I believe.

    By the way, you keep mentioning blows to the head. The count appears to be ONE.

    http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s673/roryfan87/koscheck-stoppage_zpsb99d6d7e.gif

    Still, looking over it I don't think Koscheck could have recovered so normally I'd say better safe than sorry.

    Except the UFC is on a cutting frenzy so this could cost Koscheck his livelihood.

    B:L on
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  • KanaKana Registered User regular
    Don't engage the crazy willy

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    Kana wrote: »
    Don't engage the crazy willy

    I try not to but he's just so crazy!

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  • NeliNeli Registered User regular
    8-)

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  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    They ain't gonna cut Kos.

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  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    They ain't gonna cut Kos.

    Would you lick a shoe if he's cut?

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  • SnarfmasterSnarfmaster Registered User regular
    Yeah in that Gif, almost all the punches missed Kos completely or just hit his hand. Only one made a solid connection. When I watched it live it looked much worse.

  • YougottawannaYougottawanna Registered User regular
    The two choices for the UFC's existence aren't "shafting their fighters" and "humanitarian organization." There's an entire universe of possibilities between those two states.

    B:LCampy
  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    Yeah in that Gif, almost all the punches missed Kos completely or just hit his hand. Only one made a solid connection. When I watched it live it looked much worse.

    When I watched it live I thought he deflected most of it. It was very reminiscent of Rampage vs Rashad where Rampage tried to ground and pound Evans out but wasn't really landing.

    That one that landed did do its job though and that's why I changed my mind and decided it was a decent enough stoppage, as Herb Dean has had worse. The Bermudez/Grice fight was more ridiculous than this and Herb Dean reffed that one too. Plenty of brain damage to go around in that one.

    The only reason that I'm worried is that despite not liking Kos, I don't think he should be cut for this. But his record compares quite similarly to Fitch's, AND Kos is actually paid more than Fitch. So if Dana's excuse for cutting Fitch was his salary, well...

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  • ChillyWillyChillyWilly Registered User regular
    B:L wrote: »
    First off, tell me how many fights have been stopped because someone was being punched in the face from a headlock position. I can't think of any off the top of my head, probably because generating any real torque from that position is near impossible and it generally just gives you a bloody nose (like with Liz).
    Kimbo Slice vs Roy Nelson is close enough.

    "But I don't have that kind of money!", says Beel. "That's right, Beel. Because you don't own a billion dollar business and don't know how to run one, which doesn't qualify you to speak about the decisions they make." 8->

    So you aren't done with the logical fallacies, throwing in yet another one. Converse of argument from authority, I believe.

    By the way, you keep mentioning blows to the head. The count appears to be ONE.

    http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/s673/roryfan87/koscheck-stoppage_zpsb99d6d7e.gif

    Still, looking over it I don't think Koscheck could have recovered so normally I'd say better safe than sorry.

    Except the UFC is on a cutting frenzy so this could cost Koscheck his livelihood.

    A crucifix is not a headlock, Beel.

    Are we looking at the same gif? Koscheck clearly takes 3-4 shots to the head.

    PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
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  • ChillyWillyChillyWilly Registered User regular
    The two choices for the UFC's existence aren't "shafting their fighters" and "humanitarian organization." There's an entire universe of possibilities between those two states.

    I realize that. I am exaggerating for effect.

    My point is that people complain about guys being cut as if they know what's going on inside the company and say the UFC should keep guys on the payroll when it's not their business and they legitimately have no idea what they're talking about in most situations.

    I haven't even agreed with Fitch being cut. I just said I understood why they might want to.

    PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    Are we looking at the same gif? Koscheck clearly takes 3-4 shots to the head.

    He clearly takes 2. There are 7 punches thrown there by Lawlor.

    1: The first left catches Kos while he's down. This one counts.
    2: Right uppercut whiffs.
    3: Another right goes under Kos's head.
    4: This right gets blocked from view by Herb Dean but appears to get deflected short.
    5: Left catches Kos in the head. This one counts.
    6: Right that goes nowhere.
    7: Another right that gets deflected. Herb Dean steps in after this one.

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  • LouieLouie Registered User regular
    I think one seems to rock his head against the canvas which stuns him but he's not out.

    I'm no Kos fan but I still feel it was an early stoppage.

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  • ChillyWillyChillyWilly Registered User regular
    I'm not going to bother making a number chart. I know what my eyes are seeing.

    PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    I'm not going to bother making a number chart. I know what my eyes are seeing.

    A not-beautiful Brittney Palmer? You need your eyes checked bro.

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  • ChillyWillyChillyWilly Registered User regular
    Beel, I am so glad you're here. Brings some comedy into my day.

    PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
  • Inquisitor77Inquisitor77 2 x Penny Arcade Fight Club Champion A fixed point in space and timeRegistered User regular
    You guys make me want to take blows to the head.

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  • ChillyWillyChillyWilly Registered User regular
    You know Beel and I have to have our lover's spats every now and then. You should be used to it. :D

    PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
  • B:LB:L Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    In more important news,

    http://www.bjpenn.com/rousey-wasnt-concerned-when-back-mounted-but-was-fearful-of-wardrobe-malfunction-ufc-news/

    I thought that Ronda's top looked kinda strange for a sporting event. It turns out that the UFC assigned that flimsy top to her, and it almost caused exposure two times in that fight.


    Also Lyoto Machida was named the #1 contender but the future champion is already refusing to fight him. Way to go, UFC policy.

    B:L on
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  • Chessboxing909Chessboxing909 Registered User regular
    The stoppage was early but necessary. The ref has seconds to react when something like that happens in order to save the fighter from serious injury and nine times out of ten the guy is out cold when his head bounces like that.
    Also the 'UFC is always right! and the UFC is always wrong!' stuff has got to go, it's just not that simple. Fighters are getting paid better then they were in the past but it's not where it should be yet and the sport is growing very very rapidly.

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  • ChillyWillyChillyWilly Registered User regular
    Read a rumor that Aldo will face Pettis, but only if it's non-title.

    PAFC Top 10 Finisher in Seasons 1 and 3. 2nd in Seasons 4 and 5. Final 4 in Season 6.
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