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Round XXX - FIGHT! [The Upcoming Console Wars]

ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
This is a thread for discussing the WiiU as it compares to the PS4 (which we know a little about) and the Xbox Infinity/720/whatever-the-fuck (which we don't even have a name for yet). How is Nintendo poised to perform in the face of these new juggernauts that don't actually exist yet but will someday we assume? What are these teams' respective strategies? More like WiiUrine, mirite? (No you are not.)

Discuss!

Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

I make tweet.
«134

Posts

  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    I'm curious to see how the consoles "stream everything" philosophy bangs up against the growth of bandwidth caps. My suspicion is that this is going to be a nasty fight. I'm definitely going to wait awhile before putting down money for anything, because I think we're going to see the same kind of low sales followed by desperate price cutting as we did in the latest generation of handhelds.

    I also have no desire to buy a console on the installment plan. If I can't afford what Microsoft wants, I'll pluck down a few hundred for a midline gaming PC and call it a day.

  • BogartBogart I Will Cure You Registered User, Moderator mod
    If Sony allow me to transport my gamerscore to the PS4 I'll be tempted. Awful, I know.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    I would actually love the installment plan. Dropping $400+ at once is hard for me, but $200+ $15/mo for two years would be easier, and I've grown accustomed to paying for XBL anyway. Assuming either the PS4 or MSbox has such a payment scheme and has some compelling games, I would happily buy one at launch.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
    QuidKing RiptorArthil
  • Martini_PhilosopherMartini_Philosopher Registered User regular
    There is not yet a compelling reason for me to plop any money down on the "next-gen" consoles. The WiiU is underpowered and having played with a friend's unimpressive wrt gameplay on the tablet. Everything released on the PS4 is spec'd less than my current PC. I don't expect the MS entry to be much better.

    As long as Steam and GoG exists, I can get games to play that are mine to play.

    It's up to them to make a compelling reason as to why I should give up the current gen and get their next box.

    All opinions are my own and in no way reflect that of my employer.
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Speaking of Steam should the possible Steambox be included in this discussion?

    It's an intriguing concept and would have just a mountain of games at launch(long as they get ported to linux)

  • UltimanecatUltimanecat Registered User regular
    Since I didn't get back to the other thread, I'll just chime in and say $400 is probably about as expensive as any console can be in the current market and still have any hope of success. That's why we may see some creative pricing.

    Doesn't matter that consoles have succeeded at that price point before at launch. No developer can make money on a the current going cost of $100+ million per game on a console without selling several million copies, and the base to sell to is going to be small for some time after launch at $400, let alone more.

    SteamID : same as my PA forum name
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    If I had kids I'd buy a WiiU in a second.

    My 360 doesn't even have wifi at the moment, and I don't have a Blu-ray yet so most things look like an upgrade to me.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    obF2Wuw.png
    Quida5ehren
  • nexuscrawlernexuscrawler Registered User regular
    Since I didn't get back to the other thread, I'll just chime in and say $400 is probably about as expensive as any console can be in the current market and still have any hope of success. That's why we may see some creative pricing.

    Doesn't matter that consoles have succeeded at that price point before at launch. No developer can make money on a the current going cost of $100+ million per game on a console without selling several million copies, and the base to sell to is going to be small for some time after launch at $400, let alone more.

    the subscriber model for pricing will become the standard. Its better for the companies anyway. If you're locked into a Live Sub you're more likely to do other things on Live like buy movies of XBLA games all of which make MS cash.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    analog placement on the Dual Shock might continue to be a dealbreaker for me.

    a5ehren
  • RMS OceanicRMS Oceanic Registered User regular
    Bogart wrote: »
    If Sony allow me to transport my gamerscore to the PS4 I'll be tempted. Awful, I know.

    I'm pretty sure your account, Trophies, Trophy-related-score and games/DLC* you bought will continue onto the PS4. Continuity of account is a great way of encouraging loyalty.

    *Not that this does much good right now.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    analog placement on the Dual Shock might continue to be a dealbreaker for me.

    the controllers have always been awful

    2 useless vestigial fingers at the back on each hand and the right thumb has to operate an analogue stick and 4 buttons

    absolutely terrible

    obF2Wuw.png
  • OSUJumpManOSUJumpMan Registered User regular
    KalTorak wrote: »
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    analog placement on the Dual Shock might continue to be a dealbreaker for me.

    Yeah, Sony's adherence to certain vesitigial notions is bothersome. Of course, Nintendo is guilty of this as well.

    camo_sig2.png
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    Will Watch Dogs be ported to the Wii U?

  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    The WiiU is the only console of this generation that has my eye a little bit, and is the first time since the N64 that I've had any interest in a Nintendo console.

    I think part of it is I'm spending less and less time on my consoles, and in fact my ps3 just broke and I have no desire to replace it. I still game a lot but it's all on my PC now. I was always PC heavy but now it's becoming PC only. There are so few games that are console exclusives that I'm actually interested in playing. The only console games that get me excited anymore are NHL games, and I don't think I'm going to spend $Texas to get a PS4 just to play NHL15.

    The WiiU seems interesting though because it appears to offer a different type of gaming experience with their funny little controller. and at least it will still have access to all the Mario games that are usually pretty great fun. And it's not really all that expensive, so for a sometimes gaming system it doesn't seem so bad of an investment.

    Right now I haven't seen anything that convinces me that the PS4 might offer something more or better than what I can get on the PC. The WiiU at least offers something different, and hopefully will be fun if I have people over who want to play some games.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    KalTorak wrote: »
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    analog placement on the Dual Shock might continue to be a dealbreaker for me.

    the controllers have always been awful

    2 useless vestigial fingers at the back on each hand and the right thumb has to operate an analogue stick and 4 buttons

    absolutely terrible

    Wait, do you mean just Sony's controllers? Because barring the Wii/WiiU, all controllers on all systems have been conceptually identical since the original DualShock.

    Either way, I like them. 2 sticks and 4 buttons works well for most games, with 1 stick and 8 buttons (effectively) for other games. Are you complaining that the controllers don't let you make use of all 10 fingers simultaneously? Because I am skeptical people can realistically keep track of that many simultaneous button pushes at once.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
    QuidPLA
  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    Since I didn't get back to the other thread, I'll just chime in and say $400 is probably about as expensive as any console can be in the current market and still have any hope of success. That's why we may see some creative pricing.

    Doesn't matter that consoles have succeeded at that price point before at launch. No developer can make money on a the current going cost of $100+ million per game on a console without selling several million copies, and the base to sell to is going to be small for some time after launch at $400, let alone more.

    the subscriber model for pricing will become the standard. Its better for the companies anyway. If you're locked into a Live Sub you're more likely to do other things on Live like buy movies of XBLA games all of which make MS cash.

    I would be unhappy if consoles started to precisely match the smart phone market, where you can get a console super-cheap but it stops working entirely if you don't pay your monthly fees.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    analog placement on the Dual Shock might continue to be a dealbreaker for me.

    the controllers have always been awful

    2 useless vestigial fingers at the back on each hand and the right thumb has to operate an analogue stick and 4 buttons

    absolutely terrible

    Wait, do you mean just Sony's controllers? Because barring the Wii/WiiU, all controllers on all systems have been conceptually identical since the original DualShock.

    Either way, I like them. 2 sticks and 4 buttons works well for most games, with 1 stick and 8 buttons (effectively) for other games. Are you complaining that the controllers don't let you make use of all 10 fingers simultaneously? Because I am skeptical people can realistically keep track of that many simultaneous button pushes at once.

    The PS3 controller makes my hands hurt after about half an hour. That isn't true for the XBox controller and wasn't true for the PS2, either. Looking at it, I can't tell what the magic property is that makes it such a carpal tunnel machine. Certainly doesn't look that different, but there's definitely something off about the ergonomics as I know I'm not the only person who complains about it.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    OSUJumpMan wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    analog placement on the Dual Shock might continue to be a dealbreaker for me.

    Yeah, Sony's adherence to certain vesitigial notions is bothersome. Of course, Nintendo is guilty of this as well.

    At least they seem to have figured out that concave analogue sticks and triggers make a whole lot more sense than convex.

    But still... the DS still feels cramped to me (my hands are not large), and the left analogue is going to be in almost constant use - why would you keep putting it in the stretch position?

  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    Considering Sony seems to be expecting to sell the PS4 by the end of the year but doesn't have a finalized design yet, I worry about the robustness of the new console. If they don't spend a lot of time to ensure the thing doesn't melt itself down, sound like a jet engine, or just generate shit tons of heat, that's a mistake. Having gone through 4 360s, it would suck to have another generation of shitty hardware.

    Rich on Beer - I talk about drinking beer. You read about it.
    Snork
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    analog placement on the Dual Shock might continue to be a dealbreaker for me.

    the controllers have always been awful

    2 useless vestigial fingers at the back on each hand and the right thumb has to operate an analogue stick and 4 buttons

    absolutely terrible

    Wait, do you mean just Sony's controllers? Because barring the Wii/WiiU, all controllers on all systems have been conceptually identical since the original DualShock.

    Either way, I like them. 2 sticks and 4 buttons works well for most games, with 1 stick and 8 buttons (effectively) for other games. Are you complaining that the controllers don't let you make use of all 10 fingers simultaneously? Because I am skeptical people can realistically keep track of that many simultaneous button pushes at once.

    of course they can

    think of a keyboard

    or a piano

    one finger ---> one button is a far easier map than one finger --> 4 buttons + a stick, all with functions that are often required simultaneously (consider how often camera control seriously hampers 3rd person games).

    have you ever seen what is involved in learning to jump cancel in dmc3, which required timed input of the jump and attack commands? you literally had to learn to gallop your thumb from triangle to x because it was all one finger. if you play the game on the pc the same trick is trivial as they are operated by separate fingers.

    at the very least adding a couple of extra buttons at the back for the 4th/5th fingers and allowing rebinding would ameliorate it hugely.

    surrealitycheck on
    obF2Wuw.png
    GethCaptain CarrotMortious
  • matt has a problemmatt has a problem Points to 'off' Points to 'on'Registered User regular
    Unless, for some reason, both consoles get a bunch of exclusive titles that aren't ported/on PC also, which seems extremely unlikely as this next generation of console hardware is about as close to PC hardware as it's going to get without actually being a PC, I don't see myself buying anything this generation. Paying for XBL stopped being worth it a while ago, my PS3 already has a blu-ray player, and I'd rather spend a grand building a decently high-end PC than a grand on two consoles.

    nibXTE7.png
  • tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    Until my friend got one from his parents for Xmas, I didn't even know the WiiU had launched. Which given their abysmal January sales puts me in good company. Both Sony and MS moved more stuff.

    tinwhiskers on
    How do you spell Justice?B D S Non-Violent Resistance to Israel Apartheid & Occupation.
  • DarkewolfeDarkewolfe Registered User regular
    Nintendo has not made a compelling software case for their consoles, to me, since the Gamecube.

    I've been pretty happy with the 360, which I bought simply because most people in my gaming circle had it and I wanted to share their multiplayers.

    The PS3 and 360 have been, for all I've been able to see, functionally identical, except for which app market and online gaming market you get access to. Since the 360 has had significantly better market penetration, that's made the 360 seem stronger. I'm curious whether Sony has a plan for disrupting this. I guess launching first might help.

    What is this I don't even.
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Since I didn't get back to the other thread, I'll just chime in and say $400 is probably about as expensive as any console can be in the current market and still have any hope of success. That's why we may see some creative pricing.

    Doesn't matter that consoles have succeeded at that price point before at launch. No developer can make money on a the current going cost of $100+ million per game on a console without selling several million copies, and the base to sell to is going to be small for some time after launch at $400, let alone more.

    the subscriber model for pricing will become the standard. Its better for the companies anyway. If you're locked into a Live Sub you're more likely to do other things on Live like buy movies of XBLA games all of which make MS cash.

    I would be unhappy if consoles started to precisely match the smart phone market, where you can get a console super-cheap but it stops working entirely if you don't pay your monthly fees.

    I doubt we'll ever see that kind of thing. It just doesn't make sense from a marketing perspective.

    I think the interesting thing with the subscription model is what it says about how marked up Live pricing must be. If they can sell the console for like half-price and still be ok because of a few years of Live, that service must be making bank.


    KalTorak wrote: »
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    analog placement on the Dual Shock might continue to be a dealbreaker for me.

    Seriously, fuck the dual shock and it's stupid d-pad placement.

    At least DS4 looks more ergonomic.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    analog placement on the Dual Shock might continue to be a dealbreaker for me.

    the controllers have always been awful

    2 useless vestigial fingers at the back on each hand and the right thumb has to operate an analogue stick and 4 buttons

    absolutely terrible

    Wait, do you mean just Sony's controllers? Because barring the Wii/WiiU, all controllers on all systems have been conceptually identical since the original DualShock.

    Either way, I like them. 2 sticks and 4 buttons works well for most games, with 1 stick and 8 buttons (effectively) for other games. Are you complaining that the controllers don't let you make use of all 10 fingers simultaneously? Because I am skeptical people can realistically keep track of that many simultaneous button pushes at once.

    of course they can

    think of a keyboard

    or a piano

    one finger ---> one button is a far easier map than one finger --> 4 buttons + a stick, all with functions that are often required simultaneously (consider how often camera control seriously hampers 3rd person games).

    have you ever seen what is involved in learning to jump cancel in dmc3, which required timed input of the jump and attack commands? you literally had to learn to gallop your thumb from triangle to x because it was all one finger. if you play the game on the pc the same trick is trivial as they are operated by separate fingers.

    at the very least adding a couple of extra buttons at the back for the 4th/5th fingers and allowing rebinding would ameliorate it hugely.

    The issue is a controller is meant to be held. Without a flat surface to lay the thing on, you need to sacrifice alot of hand-realestate just to keeping the thing gripped.

    PLA
  • shadowaneshadowane Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    shryke wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    Since I didn't get back to the other thread, I'll just chime in and say $400 is probably about as expensive as any console can be in the current market and still have any hope of success. That's why we may see some creative pricing.

    Doesn't matter that consoles have succeeded at that price point before at launch. No developer can make money on a the current going cost of $100+ million per game on a console without selling several million copies, and the base to sell to is going to be small for some time after launch at $400, let alone more.

    the subscriber model for pricing will become the standard. Its better for the companies anyway. If you're locked into a Live Sub you're more likely to do other things on Live like buy movies of XBLA games all of which make MS cash.

    I would be unhappy if consoles started to precisely match the smart phone market, where you can get a console super-cheap but it stops working entirely if you don't pay your monthly fees.

    I doubt we'll ever see that kind of thing. It just doesn't make sense from a marketing perspective.

    I think the interesting thing with the subscription model is what it says about how marked up Live pricing must be. If they can sell the console for like half-price and still be ok because of a few years of Live, that service must be making bank.
    I'm pretty sure the cost of live is marked up quite a bit for the subscription model. Like, instead of $60 a year, it's like $15 or $20 a month so $180 or $240. Big difference there.

    edit: And it'll mean the subsidized console ends up $100 - $200 more than if you just bought live and the console on their own.

    shadowane on
    Rich on Beer - I talk about drinking beer. You read about it.
  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    analog placement on the Dual Shock might continue to be a dealbreaker for me.

    the controllers have always been awful

    2 useless vestigial fingers at the back on each hand and the right thumb has to operate an analogue stick and 4 buttons

    absolutely terrible

    Wait, do you mean just Sony's controllers? Because barring the Wii/WiiU, all controllers on all systems have been conceptually identical since the original DualShock.

    Either way, I like them. 2 sticks and 4 buttons works well for most games, with 1 stick and 8 buttons (effectively) for other games. Are you complaining that the controllers don't let you make use of all 10 fingers simultaneously? Because I am skeptical people can realistically keep track of that many simultaneous button pushes at once.

    of course they can

    think of a keyboard

    or a piano

    one finger ---> one button is a far easier map than one finger --> 4 buttons + a stick, all with functions that are often required simultaneously (consider how often camera control seriously hampers 3rd person games).

    have you ever seen what is involved in learning to jump cancel in dmc3, which required timed input of the jump and attack commands? you literally had to learn to gallop your thumb from triangle to x because it was all one finger. if you play the game on the pc the same trick is trivial as they are operated by separate fingers.

    at the very least adding a couple of extra buttons at the back for the 4th/5th fingers and allowing rebinding would ameliorate it hugely.

    The issue is a controller is meant to be held. Without a flat surface to lay the thing on, you need to sacrifice alot of hand-realestate just to keeping the thing gripped.

    you have the fingers pressing the back of the controller already

    just stick them there a la extra triggers

    you dont support the controller with the ends of your fingers anyway

    obF2Wuw.png
  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    analog placement on the Dual Shock might continue to be a dealbreaker for me.

    the controllers have always been awful

    2 useless vestigial fingers at the back on each hand and the right thumb has to operate an analogue stick and 4 buttons

    absolutely terrible

    Wait, do you mean just Sony's controllers? Because barring the Wii/WiiU, all controllers on all systems have been conceptually identical since the original DualShock.

    Either way, I like them. 2 sticks and 4 buttons works well for most games, with 1 stick and 8 buttons (effectively) for other games. Are you complaining that the controllers don't let you make use of all 10 fingers simultaneously? Because I am skeptical people can realistically keep track of that many simultaneous button pushes at once.

    of course they can

    think of a keyboard

    or a piano

    one finger ---> one button is a far easier map than one finger --> 4 buttons + a stick, all with functions that are often required simultaneously (consider how often camera control seriously hampers 3rd person games).

    have you ever seen what is involved in learning to jump cancel in dmc3, which required timed input of the jump and attack commands? you literally had to learn to gallop your thumb from triangle to x because it was all one finger. if you play the game on the pc the same trick is trivial as they are operated by separate fingers.

    at the very least adding a couple of extra buttons at the back for the 4th/5th fingers and allowing rebinding would ameliorate it hugely.

    The issue is a controller is meant to be held. Without a flat surface to lay the thing on, you need to sacrifice alot of hand-realestate just to keeping the thing gripped.

    you have the fingers pressing the back of the controller already

    just stick them there a la extra triggers

    you dont support the controller with the ends of your fingers anyway

    You do though. You use your fingers to position the controller comfortably in your hand. Pressing buttons back there can be kinda awkward. Especially if you are also trying to press buttons on the front.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    You do though. You use your fingers to position the controller comfortably in your hand. Pressing buttons back there can be kinda awkward. Especially if you are also trying to press buttons on the front.

    it is entirely possible this is reflective of how i hold a controller

    of course, it also indicates that everybody else is bad and wrong and must adapt

    obF2Wuw.png
  • DissociaterDissociater Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    analog placement on the Dual Shock might continue to be a dealbreaker for me.

    the controllers have always been awful

    2 useless vestigial fingers at the back on each hand and the right thumb has to operate an analogue stick and 4 buttons

    absolutely terrible

    Wait, do you mean just Sony's controllers? Because barring the Wii/WiiU, all controllers on all systems have been conceptually identical since the original DualShock.

    Either way, I like them. 2 sticks and 4 buttons works well for most games, with 1 stick and 8 buttons (effectively) for other games. Are you complaining that the controllers don't let you make use of all 10 fingers simultaneously? Because I am skeptical people can realistically keep track of that many simultaneous button pushes at once.

    of course they can

    think of a keyboard

    or a piano

    one finger ---> one button is a far easier map than one finger --> 4 buttons + a stick, all with functions that are often required simultaneously (consider how often camera control seriously hampers 3rd person games).

    have you ever seen what is involved in learning to jump cancel in dmc3, which required timed input of the jump and attack commands? you literally had to learn to gallop your thumb from triangle to x because it was all one finger. if you play the game on the pc the same trick is trivial as they are operated by separate fingers.

    at the very least adding a couple of extra buttons at the back for the 4th/5th fingers and allowing rebinding would ameliorate it hugely.

    The issue is a controller is meant to be held. Without a flat surface to lay the thing on, you need to sacrifice alot of hand-realestate just to keeping the thing gripped.

    you have the fingers pressing the back of the controller already

    just stick them there a la extra triggers

    you dont support the controller with the ends of your fingers anyway

    I like it except by squeezing with the ends of your fingers, you're squeezing your hand, which means your thumbs might trigger something on the front. For example, imagine using the l-stick to move around but then need to press a button with your middle finger on the left hand. it might be hard to control your thumb on the l-stick at the same time. The solution would be to make little divots that your fingers rest in, and to push them you move your finger towards your opposite hand. ie: if I want to use the middle finger button on the left hand, I'd be pushing towards my right hand, not towards my body. That way the counter pressure is from my right palm, and not my left-thumb.

    It could work. Although accounting for hand sizes/types would be tough. Anyone with missing/extra fingers would have a harder time of it as well.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    shryke wrote: »
    You do though. You use your fingers to position the controller comfortably in your hand. Pressing buttons back there can be kinda awkward. Especially if you are also trying to press buttons on the front.

    it is entirely possible this is reflective of how i hold a controller

    of course, it also indicates that everybody else is bad and wrong and must adapt

    It's probably more, imo, that you aren't realising you are doing it. Unless you hold the controller without touching it with your fingers, you are unconsciously balancing the controller in your hand with your fingers.

  • surrealitychecksurrealitycheck the search for the means to put an end to things an end to speech is what enables the discourse to continue ~ * ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) excelsior * ~Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    shryke wrote: »
    shryke wrote: »
    You do though. You use your fingers to position the controller comfortably in your hand. Pressing buttons back there can be kinda awkward. Especially if you are also trying to press buttons on the front.

    it is entirely possible this is reflective of how i hold a controller

    of course, it also indicates that everybody else is bad and wrong and must adapt

    It's probably more, imo, that you aren't realising you are doing it. Unless you hold the controller without touching it with your fingers, you are unconsciously balancing the controller in your hand with your fingers.

    no, i've actually tried it

    blu tacked the spots with blobs, blu tack didnt get squished while playing tha vidya

    no pressure on them

    surrealitycheck on
    obF2Wuw.png
  • FallingmanFallingman Registered User regular
    I'm not sure how I'm feeling about the next gen so far. This might be the point that I go PC/Steam box. I like that consoles take away the "minimum requirements" guesswork from the hardware side, but I can now have the flexibility to play mouse and keyboard games.
    Aside from cost, I'm really not sure what the draw will be for me. I have no interest in the social aspects, and I'm very skeptical about our ability to get broadband of a quality that would make the streaming options feasable.
    Most games are cross platform, so I'm just not seeing the hook.

    I'll wait and see. As with last gen, I dont think hardware specs will be the deciding factor.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • frandelgearslipfrandelgearslip 457670Registered User regular
    At this point the PS4 is the only upcoming console that is even a remote possibility for me, which is a surprise since this generation I bought the 360 five years ago, the WII two years ago and the PS3 three months ago. The WIIU is already shaping up to be the home for nothing but Mario and Zelda and other games I have no interest in. The 720 (for lack of a better name) is rumored to be online only which is a deal breaker for me. My internet connection is so bad it takes me 24 hours to download 3 gigs.

  • shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    The NextBox is not gonna be online-only.

    Quid
  • OSUJumpManOSUJumpMan Registered User regular
    At this point, my console buying decisions are influenced almost entirely by console exclusives and multiplayer. I'll pick up whatever box lets me play Mario, Zelda, etc and the EA Sports titles (which are obviously cross-platform). Everything else, I'm willing to put the money down to play it on a PC. Of course, the single-player exclusives, I'm perfectly willing to wait until the price-point dips to a level I'm comfortable with.

    camo_sig2.png
  • FallingmanFallingman Registered User regular
    Is there any news re: planned announcements for the new XBox/Steambox etc?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    I honestly can't see myself buying any new console anytime soon. My PS3 is mostly a Blu-Ray player / Netflix box as it is. I have 5 friggin games for it and three of them are Uncharteds. I gave my sister my copy of GTA and her kid a copy of Portal 2. But looking at my desktop screen, I have 15 games currently installed. And I know SimCity 5 and Heart of the Swarm are coming out next month. There would have to be some seriously amazing games for me to pick up a nexr gen anytime soon.

  • ElJeffeElJeffe Moderator, ClubPA mod
    ElJeffe wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    at the moment the ps4 hardware looks pretty legit

    all dem high speed rams and shit

    we are waiting for dem microsofts

    analog placement on the Dual Shock might continue to be a dealbreaker for me.

    the controllers have always been awful

    2 useless vestigial fingers at the back on each hand and the right thumb has to operate an analogue stick and 4 buttons

    absolutely terrible

    Wait, do you mean just Sony's controllers? Because barring the Wii/WiiU, all controllers on all systems have been conceptually identical since the original DualShock.

    Either way, I like them. 2 sticks and 4 buttons works well for most games, with 1 stick and 8 buttons (effectively) for other games. Are you complaining that the controllers don't let you make use of all 10 fingers simultaneously? Because I am skeptical people can realistically keep track of that many simultaneous button pushes at once.

    of course they can

    think of a keyboard

    or a piano

    one finger ---> one button is a far easier map than one finger --> 4 buttons + a stick, all with functions that are often required simultaneously (consider how often camera control seriously hampers 3rd person games).

    have you ever seen what is involved in learning to jump cancel in dmc3, which required timed input of the jump and attack commands? you literally had to learn to gallop your thumb from triangle to x because it was all one finger. if you play the game on the pc the same trick is trivial as they are operated by separate fingers.

    at the very least adding a couple of extra buttons at the back for the 4th/5th fingers and allowing rebinding would ameliorate it hugely.

    I almost specifically invoked a keyboard and why I didn't think it counted, and then I didn't.

    I think the mechanics of a keyboard are different because you're not hitting potentially 10 keys at once in arbitrary patterns, you're just putting your fingers into certain shapes such that when you depress them, it makes a pleasing chord. A big challenge in learning to play a keyboard is learning the chord shapes. Once you learn them, you can play them wherever on the keyboard, but that doesn't mean you necessarily keep track of all 10 fingers at once and have them independently seeking out keys, in the same way you seem to be imagining using a controller.

    Most games I've played - and I can't think of any counter examples - have you pressing 2-3 buttons at once, at the most, maybe sometimes 4, but that's uncommon. And controllers are designed to facilitate that - it's not hard to use, say, both trigger buttons and one or two face buttons at a time. There's no reason to map each finger to its own dedicated button when each finger can easily manage 2 or more by itself.

    Also - and here we're getting into philosophy of gameplay more than ergonomics - there's a certain pleasure to pulling off complicated button presses, and getting the timings and button presses right. Think of most fighting games - is it more satisfying to do a F-D-DF+X sequence and pull off that Dragon Punch, or to hit the Dragon Punch button and have the game do it for you? Some games certainly have excessively difficult controls, but in a lot of games the difficulty is kind of the point.

    Basically, I think the inherent limitations in current controllers are more a feature than a bug.

    Maddie: "I named my feet. The left one is flip and the right one is flop. Oh, and also I named my flip-flops."

    I make tweet.
    QuidSnork
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