Let's Play Victoria II as the Sultan of Sultans!

enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
edited May 2013 in Games and Technology
Hey all, it's been a while since I did one of these solo. I've done some stuff with CK/CK2 as multiplayer succession game madness, but not a solo LP. I've been thinking about doing another Paradox game though. CK2/EU3 are a bit too easy to blob, and I've been playing this lately, so I thought I'd give it a try.

I'm new to Paradox, what is this?

Victoria II is, shockingly, the sequel to Victoria. Both games are about the age of European imperialism and industrialization. The game uses the crowning of Queen Victoria and the first moves towards WW2 as its bookends and lasts from 1836 - 1936. During that time, we'll be researching technologies, building factories, going to war, influencing rivals, and dealing with a billion random events! We may also colonize Africa and/or southwest Asia, southeast Asia, and the Pacific. So far, there has been one expansion, A House Divided, which focuses on the American Civil War, in addition to fixing a lot of things that were not great about the game on release. We will be playing with that and one other thing.

If you're unfamiliar with Paradox generally, they make grand strategy games. Their most successful and most accessible title is Crusader Kings 2, which deals with the middle ages. The Renaissance and Enlightenment are handled in Europa Universalis 3.

Here's our Paradox thread.
Here is the CK2 thread/succession game thread. I... accidentally conquered most of Iberia on the first turn, which made us somewhat overly powerful. Fortunately, I am less good at this.

What's the one other thing?

A POP Divided

It's not essential, but it's a user mod that makes the game better in a bunch of ways and make more sense. Also adds a bunch of historical events without ramrodding you into playing real history.

Any special features?

I like user participation, so I'll be putting most things to a vote, approximately every five years.

Who are you playing as?

I don't know! I'll offer a few suggestions that might be interesting and a few that are banned. Linked for huge:

http://www.paradoxplaza.com/sites/default/files/V2_2.JPG

There's Europe. I refuse to play as the UK because 1) it's a management nightmare and 2) it's impossible to fail. The UK is too big and strong and spends its time annexing India and beating up China and generally being a dick. I would prefer to play as a smaller nation capable of interesting things. Sweden -> Scandinavia and Sardinia-Piedmont -> Italy -> Seeing how much of the Roman Empire I can get back are particularly interesting ideas. But really anyone other than the UK. France has a large population, starts second to the UK, and is generally hard to stop. Prussia has a natural path towards becoming Germany, massive industry, and one special thing I'll get into if we pick it. Austria is on the decline, but can do fun stuff. Russia is a slow moving, illiterate goliath, but if you can modernize them, they're unstoppable. The Ottomans would be tough. Belgium is actually close to a great power to start and can be made one easily, but other than becoming the ruler of the Low Countries, you're a bit boxed in until you go do what Leopold II did and massacre a bunch of Africans. Netherlands are similar, but you have a fairly large presence to start in Indonesia (the Dutch East Indies). Luxembourg/Switzerland would be very boring. Denmark too, probably.

Elsewhere!
We're not being the USA. It's easy mode. You beat up the Mexicans, put down the Confederacy, and then do whatever the hell you want for the rest of the game. We're also not being Brazil, because I just did a game with them, and they're kind of South American easy mode. Mexico could be interesting, as it would require us to fight off the Yanqui menace in the Mexican War(s) while dealing with our own instability. Argentina is also sizable with a decent potential for growth. The rest of the Americas are hard mode. The USCA or Ecuador would be particularly hard.

There are a couple Asian countries we could have fun with. China is China. Ton of people, shitty government, shitty technology. If you can modernize without the British having taken too much of your stuff, you can beat up everyone and become the modern PRC a century early. Japan has massive potential and is much safer without the history bits of the game directing the British to come smack them every decade or so. Once modernized their large population base means we could basically try to replicate what the actual Japanese Empire did and conquer Korea, Manchuria, China, and possibly the Dutch East Indies, depending how things look.

So vote for a country you'd like to see me try!

Updates

Update 0 - Introduction (1836)
Update 1 - Beating Up Sheiks (1836-1840) Featuring: Teach me about technology, ebum!
Update 2 - The Oriental Crisis (1840 - 1845)
Update 3 - Recovery and Progress (1845 - 1850)
Update 4 - Dominance of the Eastern Mediterranean (1850 - 1855)
Update 5 - Reforms (1856 - 1860)
Update 6 - Golden Age (1861 - 1865)
Update 7 - Foreign News (1866 - 1870)
Update 8 - Social Reforms are Expensive (1871 - 1875)
Update 9 - Scandal! (1876 - 1880) Also State of the World 1880
Update 10 - Budget Crisis! (1881 - 1885)
Update 11 - Africa! (1886 - 1890)
Update 12 - Boom Times! (1891 - 1895)
Update 13 - A New Century (1896 - 1900)
Update 14 - Chaos in Europe, Prosperity at Home (1901 - 1905)
Update 15 - In Which Brilliant Plans Go Awry (1906 - 1910)
Update 16 - The Sick Man of Europe (1911 - 1915)
Update 17 - In Which We Clean Up Our Borders Slightly (1916 - 1920)
Update 18 - Pissing Off Germans (1921 - 1925)

State of the World
1850 Featuring: Teach me about political reform, ebum!

Tutorial information not in actual updates
Teach me about POPs, ebum!
Teach me about foreign policy, ebum!
Teach me about the military, ebum!

Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
Warren 2020
enlightenedbum on
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Posts

  • Xenogears of BoreXenogears of Bore Registered User regular
    Psilons are easy mode, pick them.

    3DS CODE: 3093-7068-3576
    Elvenshae
  • ZedarZedar Registered User regular
    I vote that it's time for the Ottomans to regain their lost empire.

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  • ComradebotComradebot Lord of Dinosaurs Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    Morocco: it's time to take the fight back to the Spanish!

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    I'm relatively sure Morocco is basically get crushed by Spain, I'll check tomorrow.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • ComradebotComradebot Lord of Dinosaurs Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    I'm relatively sure Morocco is basically get crushed by Spain, I'll check tomorrow.

    Seems to be the case in most PDox titles, the exception being it'll be France or the HRE that smashes Mauritania in CKII. I'd try to play a North African Vicky campaing, but I think Texas will be my next go.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    In original Vicky I got Texas to #1 without modding out the USA cores in the SW. I was kind of proud.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • WotanAnubisWotanAnubis Registered User regular
    I feel the Netherlands should reclaim New Amsterdam and New Holland.

    Or, failing that, kick the Portuguese around and conquer Spain motivated by a centuries old grudge.

  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Total Goober Registered User regular
    Ottoman, Mexico, or Argentina. Maybe Austria-Hungary and see if you can prevent their slow decline?

  • kaliyamakaliyama Left to find less-moderated fora Registered User regular
    Austria!

    fwKS7.png?1
  • ShadowhopeShadowhope Baa. Registered User regular

    Is Switzerland an option? Can Europe be taught to fear the Swiss military juggernaut?

    I sometimes post pretty pictures to twitter: https://twitter.com/matthewandworld
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    The Swiss are not an option, landlocked and surrounded by great powers is pretty boring. You would need to get an alliance with France and hope they support you against Sardinia-Piedmont.

    That would be an amusing EU3 game though.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    I've always liked playing as the ottomans in the EU series.
    Never played Vicki, though

  • The Fourth EstateThe Fourth Estate Registered User regular
    Mexico! The Sikh Empire if you're feeling particularly bold.

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  • KiasKias Registered User regular
    I second (third?) Mexico! Should be interesting to watch!

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  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    Ottoman's would be interesting.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Ottomans 3.5, Mexico 2.5, some other countries 1. Voting can continue until like 10 PM eastern or so. Initial update will just be a couple weeks for the economy to model itself.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • quarthinosquarthinos Registered User regular
    I assume that Ryuku taking over the world is impossible? :rotate:

    I'd vote for Poland, but the map you've posted indicates this is one of the times in history when Poland did not exist. :(

    Wikipedia says Australia is still a penal colony :(

    If you want hard-mode I vote for Hawai'i, otherwise do something scandinavian.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Morocco is uncivilized, for reference.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    Have you thought about waiting until Heart of Darkness comes out?

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Nope.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • MackenzierMackenzier Gold Star Police Ninja Lurking... less than usual.Registered User regular
    Sweet! I just started playing this recently and I enjoyed trying out both Mexico and the Ottomans... I'll put a a vote in for the Ottomans since it gives more options for maneuvering and access to the heart of Africa.

    I did a pretty sweet run as South Africa too, but that involved too much save-swap hijinks to get started with vanilla Vicky.

    Steam: Mackenzier
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  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Total Goober Registered User regular
    Ottoman or Mexico

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    We're going Ottomans, and I'm not waiting for Heart of Darkness because I'm a slacker about buying Paradox expansions for full price, mostly. I'll put together a thing about our starting situation in a little bit.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • Mr RayMr Ray Sarcasm sphereRegistered User regular
    Is Holland an option? Or Canada? Failing that, Mexico could be entertaining.

    Space.
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Canada isn't released yet, they become available in APD ~1870. But as a satellite of the UK, which isn't all that interesting.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Total Goober Registered User regular
    I remember that in old vicky aars, Egypt was a thing. So watch out for them?

    Kagera
  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Update 0 (1836) - Introduction
    So let's examine the state of the Ottoman Empire as we begin play here. It's 1836, the Industrial Revolution is in full swing in Western Europe and the United States of America. Additionally, several places are demanding independence, such as the Republic of Texas and the Rio de la Plata in Brazil. At the moment we're the rulers of Egypt and several buffer states in the Balkans between us and the Austrians. We have a few technologies, but are behind the true Great Powers (UK, France, US, Prussia). Let's look at the tech screen first:

    ak95s0.jpg

    I've also included the banner at the top and circled our literacy rate and research points. They're not good. Fixing those should probably be our top priority. But our economy is also pretty terrible, which I'll get to in a bit. With these two facts considered, I decide we'll start by researching Freedom of Trade. It improves our education efficiency and our base resource output, which should be a tremendous help. It'll take about two years to finish at the current rate.

    240xeg0.jpg

    Next, let's look at our population. You can see we have a fair sized population (just short of 5 million workers, the actual population is 4 times that). For reference, at the start here the USA has about 2 million. The major difference is that they'll be getting a ton of immigrants and we will not. We'll have to rely on good old sex to improve our population numbers. Well, and conquest. You can also see that we have no capitalists in the entire Empire, which is a bit of a problem unless we want to be doing all of our factory and railroad construction ourselves (spoiler: we don't). So that's something that probably needs fixing, quickly.

    xb9rpe.jpg

    We still want to build some factories before we get the capitalists though. To do that we need a different ruling party. So I changed ours. For people new to Victoria 2, there are a bunch of political parties, each of which have their own traits. Quick summary:

    Economy
    Laissez Faire - Flat bonus to factory production, cheaper to build factories, only capitalists can build factories, no government subsidies allowed, max tax rate of 50%
    Interventionism - Only capitalists can build factories, factories built at normal price, government subsidies allowed, tax rate between I believe 15 and 85%
    State Capitalism - Either capitalists or the government can build factories, factories are more expensive for capitalists, government subsidies allowed, you'll see the allowable tax rates in a bit here.
    Planned Economy - Your basic socialism. Only the government can build factories, minimum tax rate I think 50%. I never run Planned Economy

    Trade
    Protectionism - likes tariffs
    Free Trade - doesn't like tariffs

    Religious Policy
    Moralism - state religion
    Pluralism - lots of religions
    Secularized - what it says on the tin
    Atheism - No religion

    Citizenship Policy
    Slavery - SLAVES RAR
    Residency - Not big fan of minorities, only Turks can vote
    Limited citizenship - accepted minorities can vote
    Full citizenship - everybody gets to vote (immigrants like that)

    War Policy
    Jingoism - super warlike, floor on defense spending
    Pro-military - supports the military, somewhat smaller floor
    Anti-military - cap on defense spending
    Pacifist - lesser cap

    Anyway, I switched us to the only state capitalist option so I can build some factories for us. They're reactionaries, so do not like reforms, and eventually we're going to shift to a more liberal party. But first: basic industry. For those of you who haven't played, in democracies, we couldn't do this, but since we're an absolute monarchy, good times. You can also see all of the political and social reforms. There are lots, I will get to them when our populace can read and starts requesting some of them. For those who haven't played with APD, there are a bunch of new ones.

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    Let's move on to the factory screen. Thrace (Istanbul) has a Fabric Factory with a fair number of employees. I start a Cement Factory in our largest populated province. Cement is good because every factory needs it, so having a domestic supply is a serious help. There are a bunch of new factories in a APD as well. Notably Fabric can be made from either cotton or wool, canned food from any of its component elements, etc.

    117zm9c.jpg

    Possibly burying the lead, but we're at war. It's with Tripoli in North Africa. Not all that exciting, by the end of this very short update, their military will be destroyed and I'll be setting up sieges of all their territory so we can annex them. It is making our troops a bit more expensive though.

    jb47js.jpg

    Here's the Arabian portion of our empire. Egypt is our satellite, but we don't rule them directly. They'll be a focus of a lot of Great Power meddling in order to build the Suez Canal a little later. If we can keep it long enough to build it ourselves (and possibly annex it? I don't know the Ottoman events) that will be a nice bonus for us and opens up the possibility of taking some of the East Indies for itself.

    x3a79.jpg

    There's the northern border. Obviously Russia is a problem, and views us as a natural route for expansion, as they did historically. Austria is also a problem. We'll probably need some allies out of Prussia, France, and the UK. The UK is probably safest, long term.

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    We open the game with a decision available. The Rights of Man gives us some permanent prestige gain per year in exchange for some consciousness. I take it.

    aclg1.jpg

    Hey, the game is finally unpaused! We get a new prime minister, who is kind of awesome. No additional research points, which would be a HUGE help, but alas. He does burn extra infamy, so after this war concludes, we should probably start justifying a new one somewhere.

    zjdzjk.jpg

    Also, our birth rate is high. This hurts our education rates, but gives us more people. Which is more workers, which is a better economy. All in all, a fair trade. Also, there's nothing we can do about it. So we take it and move on.

    24q8twl.jpg

    The game takes a little while to actual model the economy. After it does, I restructure our budget a bit. I increase education funding a bunch, while decreasing how much we pay for our stockpile goods. That's mostly military maintenance. The war isn't hard to win. Also, massive tax hikes on the poor. When the war ends, we'll want to cut taxes, especially on the wealthy and make sure their needs are taken care of. We need capitalists!

    29c304m.jpg

    Oops. We're outnumbered and our troops are kind of crappy (infantry, not regulars). We lose, despite inflicting more casualties.

    125otpv.jpg

    A better trained force crushes them utterly. Tripoli has no forces, I'll be occupying them.

    Two other things worth noting that I did not take shots of.

    First, I put our influence points into Serbia for now. Getting them sphered and an additional buffer against Austria is a good idea, possibly. I'll put this up for debate in a second.

    Second, I designated our two national foci. One is making capitalists in Bursa, the other is making Clergymen in Albania (our second largest state by population). Clergy to improve education rates and give us more research points, capitalists to get our economy going when we leave state capitalism. So far the created capitalists have started investing in two factories, unfortunately, one of them is insane.

    They would like to make a luxury furniture factory, even though we have no lumber or normal furniture factories. Maybe the artisans are making some (I forgot to check, to be honest), but that is going to be hard to be profitable for a while. The other is a more sane regular clothes factory, building off of Thrace's fabric factory. Hooray!

    That's the update, now, we have decisions to make!

    Decisions!
    Foreign Policy
    1) Which other Great Power(s) should the Ottomans seek an alliance with? Remember that Russia and Austria-Hungary are the people we're worried by.
    A) The UK
    B) France
    C) Prussia
    D) The USA

    2) Where should we seek a war?
    A) The Arabian Peninsula (smaller, easier, have accepted culture pops)
    B) Persia (richer, until we discover oil in about 50 years)

    3) Where should we seek influence? (Remember, more influence on our continent and with our neighbors; if we want to pursue that luxury furniture factory, securing a source of tropical lumber would be helpful)
    A) Serbia
    B) The Arabian Peninsula
    C) Persia
    D) The New World (Brazil?)
    E) Southeast Asia (Siam?)

    Domestic Policy
    4) Which party should lead us until 1840? I'd make the change in 1837 or so.
    A) Reactionaries
    B) Conservatives
    C) Liberals

    5) Open Answer Question: What sort of industry should we focus on?

    6) Should we seek reforms or repress our citizens?
    A) Reform!
    b) Repress!

    Military policy
    7) We have a 25 ship fleet, and no real enemies that are going to fight us with a navy. Should we downsize the navy?
    A) Yes
    B) No

    Technology policy
    8) What technology should we pursue next?
    A) Military technology
    B) Culture (education, really) technology
    C) Industrial technology (probably Experimental Railroad)

    If we learn the second technology before 1840 I'll choose the option with the second most votes.

    9) Any other suggestions!

    Voting will stay open until whenever the hell I feel like it, which is probably Friday sometime.

    These will be binding within the context that I won't be suicidal about it.

    enlightenedbum on
    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    1) France. The UK is a good choice, if only to keep them out of any wars vs us, but relying on the superpower to back us is boring. The US are isolationist jerks and won't help at all. Prussia will likely seek to subsume Austria if they can and the people to stop that from happening are... France! Prussia does make a better ally vs Russia though

  • ZedarZedar Registered User regular
    1: Prussia - Mainly because they happen to be next to both of our primary threats, unlike the UK, France or the US
    2: The Arabian Peninsula (smaller, easier, have accepted culture pops) - for all the reasons provided
    3: Serbia - Buffer states to keep Austria away are always good
    4: Conservatives - Because they're popular and probably can't do too much damage
    5: No answer here
    6: Repress! - Too much freedom and they'll want a democracy or something
    7: No - Forward planning in case Britain turns against us
    8: Industrial technology (probably Experimental Railroad) - to get the economy going

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  • VicVic Registered User regular
    Woo! I really like Victoria, too bad I missed the voting but you made an excellent choice.

    1: Prussia
    2: Arab peninsula
    3: Wherever we can secure resources we might need (not sure if we need coal, for example). Otherwise the Balkans.
    4: Liberals!
    5: basic industries, eventually the capitalists should handle managing that anyway
    6: Reform the corrupt and inefficient regime!
    7: Yes, GB will kick us at sea anyway.
    8. Industrial and free trade.

  • GrimmyTOAGrimmyTOA Registered User regular
    Vote Zedar's slate. Rational planning for a reasonable tomorrow.

  • The Fourth EstateThe Fourth Estate Registered User regular
    edited February 2013
    1. The UK, we need those brigades to soak the Russian menace, and they'll let you totally ignore your navy.
    2. Arabian Penisula - go for the owning Mecca bonus!
    3. Serbia, stop them from helping the Ruskies
    4. Reactionaries - or anyone who allows state building of railroads.
    5. Not sure, can't remember the raw mats in the Ottoman Empire.
    6. Reform
    7. Yes
    8. Railroads! Without a navy being able to ship troops safely round the awful terrain in the empire should be a focus.

    The Fourth Estate on
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  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    Decisions!
    Foreign Policy
    1) Prussia
    2) The Arabian Peninsula (smaller, easier, have accepted culture pops)
    3) Southeast Asia (Siam?)
    4) Reactionaries
    5) Food stuffs.
    6) Reform!Isn't repressing what lead to the collapse of the whole Ottoman empire anyway?
    7) No. Does it make sense to have a navy available if we're going to make a Suez channel?
    8) Culture (education, really) technology. This seems to make sense
    9) Any other suggestions! Sultans of Swing to be the national anthem.

  • KiasKias Registered User regular
    Disclaimer: I have never played this game and have no idea what is the best. That said, you seem to have a solid idea of how to win, so it might be more fun/interesting to see you play an unconventional game!

    1) The USA- think big picture as, from what I hear, these guys are going to be a big deal.

    2) The Arabian Peninsula (smaller, easier, have accepted culture pops). Don't want to overextend ourselves to early.

    3) Southeast Asia (Siam?) Exotic goods from the far east!

    4) Liberals! Why not? Lets see how they do.

    5) The profitable kind? What ever makes us the most money!

    6) Reform, out with the old, in with the new!

    7) No, unless it is super expensive to maintain. It always good to have bases covered.

    8) Military technology, just in case those Russians get antsy. Once we have some decent military tech, focus on industrial.

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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    1) The UK
    2) Arabian Peninsula - Focus on the smaller chunks closer to home
    3) Serbia - Need to buffer the Russians
    4) Liberals?
    5) Mechanization or Metallurgy?
    6) Reform
    7) Yes, if we're friends with the UK invest that money elsewhere.
    8) Industrial tech, after we've got railroads shift to Education

  • ElvenshaeElvenshae Registered User regular
    Decisions!
    Foreign Policy
    1) Which other Great Power(s) should the Ottomans seek an alliance with? Remember that Russia and Austria-Hungary are the people we're worried by.
    C) Prussia - they have the best hats to go with our upcoming investment in clothing.

    2) Where should we seek a war?
    A) The Arabian Peninsula (smaller, easier, have accepted culture pops)

    3) Where should we seek influence? (Remember, more influence on our continent and with our neighbors; if we want to pursue that luxury furniture factory, securing a source of tropical lumber would be helpful)
    A) Serbia

    Domestic Policy
    4) Which party should lead us until 1840? I'd make the change in 1837 or so.
    B) Conservatives - Reactionaries are too crazy, and they've got the popular support.

    5) Open Answer Question: What sort of industry should we focus on? CLOTHING! We already make fabric, so let's support the home team. Plus, Prussian hats.

    6) Should we seek reforms or repress our citizens?
    A) Reform! Why not?

    Military policy
    7) We have a 25 ship fleet, and no real enemies that are going to fight us with a navy. Should we downsize the navy?
    B) No - instead, is there some way to go make it useful somewhere?

    Technology policy
    8) What technology should we pursue next?
    B) Culture (education, really) technology

    If we learn the second technology before 1840 I'll choose the option with the second most votes.

    9) Any other suggestions!
    Not enough of an idea how this game plays to start tossing out other ideas.

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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    I did some quick investigating of actual history last night. Egypt's probably going to rebel fairly soon, which is going to cause a major crisis.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
  • KiasKias Registered User regular
    I did some quick investigating of actual history last night. Egypt's probably going to rebel fairly soon, which is going to cause a major crisis.

    Research: "The back of my hand"

    Action: Apply liberally to Egypt as need arises.

    Tip: This will be easier when you have Liberals running your government

    steam_sig.png

  • AldoAldo Hippo Hooray the swamp, always the swampRegistered User regular
    I did some quick investigating of actual history last night. Egypt's probably going to rebel fairly soon, which is going to cause a major crisis.

    That's why I think reforms and improving the industry are very good ideas. Keeps them happy and provides the Ottomans with [hopefully] just enough sway to remain relevant during WW1.

  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    Aldo wrote: »
    I did some quick investigating of actual history last night. Egypt's probably going to rebel fairly soon, which is going to cause a major crisis.

    That's why I think reforms and improving the industry are very good ideas. Keeps them happy and provides the Ottomans with [hopefully] just enough sway to remain relevant during WW1.

    History isn't that hardcoded in this. We can probably instigate such a thing if it's really desired though.

    Herbert Hoover got 40% of the vote in 1932. Friendly reminder.
    Warren 2020
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