Quasi-spoilerish, but I love how evolution can consist of "put yourself in a shitty situation and force yourself to evolve."
In the real world, such stupidity would be selected against.
There are a lot of things to get mad about when it comes to how zerg evolution is treated, but "apply selective pressure-->see if a mutation allows for adaptation into a stronger organism" is probably the least ridiculous.
I get more mad about the assertion that you can just take DNA from one creature and put it in another to get the same results. That is...not really how biology works. It would be great if it was though. My PhD would be done already.
edit: inb4 faster than light telepathic alien bugs yadda yadda
Queen of Blades isn't sexualized in Starcraft 1. Doesn't have high heels, doesn't really have identifiable breasts, doesn't have a pretty face, etc. She looks like a pissed off alien dinosaur bug hive queen, it's great.
You should take a look at the ending cinematic from Brood War again. She absolutely does have identifiable breasts, and her carapace resembles a corset, opera gloves, and knee-high fetish boots. With a garter. That connects to nothing.
Quasi-spoilerish, but I love how evolution can consist of "put yourself in a shitty situation and force yourself to evolve."
In the real world, such stupidity would be selected against.
There are a lot of things to get mad about when it comes to how zerg evolution is treated, but "apply selective pressure-->see if a mutation allows for adaptation into a stronger organism" is probably the least ridiculous.
Except that the zerg don't mate so there's a much smaller chance of useful mutation occurring
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Queen of Blades isn't sexualized in Starcraft 1. Doesn't have high heels, doesn't really have identifiable breasts, doesn't have a pretty face, etc. She looks like a pissed off alien dinosaur bug hive queen, it's great.
You should take a look at the ending cinematic from Brood War again. She absolutely does have identifiable breasts, and her carapace resembles a corset, opera gloves, and knee-high fetish boots. With a garter. That connects to nothing.
Quasi-spoilerish, but I love how evolution can consist of "put yourself in a shitty situation and force yourself to evolve."
In the real world, such stupidity would be selected against.
There are a lot of things to get mad about when it comes to how zerg evolution is treated, but "apply selective pressure-->see if a mutation allows for adaptation into a stronger organism" is probably the least ridiculous.
Except that the zerg don't mate so there's a much smaller chance of useful mutation occurring
Yes. I know. I didn't say it was plausible, just that it was the least dumb thing of all the things they do with zerg adaptation and evolution. But none of it is in any way related to actual adaptation and evolution.
edit: I started writing about mutation frequency as it pertains to mating and then remembered this is the SC2 thread, not the genetics thread.
While you are mostly right about SC1, 3clipse, she wasn't entirely bug-like in her original infested form. In game model, perhaps, but who can put detail into such a low-bit, small, sprite anyway?
So you ignore the parts of her anatomy that are mutated and alien, the claws, the tentacle hair, the skin color, etc? Comparing her to the other character you mentioned is incongruent because he an infested human. Kerrigan is a zerg, which do not wear clothes. To our knowledge the parts of her anatomy that look "exposed" could be pure armor or an incredibly hardened structure offering more protection than the rigid plates.
Is femininity itself sexual?
Are masculinity and femininity congruent when it comes to sexualization? What defines male sexuality?
As I said before, compare Kerrigan to
Infested Stukov. He's infested and he wears clothes, his face is far more deformed than Kerrigan's.
Once again, that character is infested. Its been established that infested humans or characters of any race become zombie-like and deformed upon infestation. Kerrigan was carefully modeled by the overmind, then herself to be the perfect Zerg Queen. Different circumstances for two different characters.
Except,
She wasn't modeled by the Overmind in HotS. She transformed back into the Queen of Blades by the Primal Zerg.
Also, how does having glossy lips, breasts, and built in high heels make her the perfect Zerg Queen? The Zerg specifically breeds out useless traits and puts in the strongest/most useful ones. So why doesn't Kerrigan have fangs or armor on her chest?
As for her femininity, you are aware that her proportions are very idealized, don't you?
As is Jim Raynor's, Tychus Findlay's, Prince Valerian, and countless other male characters in the game. I would love to have their physiques. Video games very rarely reflect reality.
Did you not understand the idea that I pointed out earlier about the lack of diversity in female characters?
In order to have this discussion, you really should stop acting as if SC2 exists in a vacuum separate from culture.
I just don't see the usefulness in berating a game for having benign aspects that are part of a larger grievance with culture. Its kind of like going out of your way to dislike or attack something, especially when said thing is not the cause and merely a byproduct.
Except it's a problem when it perpetuates the stereotype. Let's say that you made a movie in 1940 that had an African American character who was unintelligent, ignorant, and needs the help and guidance of a white person. Even if you aren't just saying that he's like that just because of his race and can completely justify why that character is like that, it would still perpetuate that specific stereotype. The very fact that there is either very few or no other depictions of a certain gender or race out side of that stereotype means that when you follow that same mold, even if you can perfectly justify it within your story, you are contributing to the perpetuation of that stereotype.
Except here the "stereotype" that is being perpetuated is that Kerrigan is female.
Except women don't naturally have plump glossy lips, high heels built into their feet, or super model figures that accentuate their butts and breasts.
Also, 100 years ago, the majority of African Americans lived in poverty and were poorly educated so people would have justified portraying African Americans mainly as ignorant and uneducated as saying that they were just reflecting reality.
KingofMadCows on
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited March 2013
If you can't see the difference between a male having an exaggerated body for the purpose of making him look like a bad ass, and a woman having an exaggerated body for the purpose of making her look really sexy, you're being deliberately obtuse. Because if you believe that it's just over the top exaggeration, then you believe that fundamental archetype for men is musclebound badass and the fundamental archetype for women is super sexy lady and if you don't see why that's sexist objectification you're a misogynistic goose.
edit: But in case you decide to go BUT WHYYYYYYYYYY AREN'T THEY BOTH BAD
One of them makes someone strong, capable, and able to overcome whatever obstacle is placed in their path.
One of them makes someone nice to look at but beyond that not particularly useful.
And that's about as simply as I can put it without breaking the glorious edict.
As is Jim Raynor's, Tychus Findlay's, Prince Valerian, and countless other male characters in the game. I would love to have their physiques. Video games very rarely reflect reality.
There's a classic comic I can't seem to find right now that points out that indeed, as you say, those are male fantasies about male bodies, but not necessarily female ones.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
If you can't see the difference between a male having an exaggerated body for the purpose of making him look like a bad ass, and a woman having an exaggerated body for the purpose of making her look really sexy, you're being deliberately obtuse. Because if you believe that it's just over the top exaggeration, then you believe that fundamental archetype for men is musclebound badass and the fundamental archetype for women is super sexy lady and if you don't see why that's sexist objectification you're a misogynistic goose.
I wonder if it is possible to make a female character look both sexy and badass...
Regardless of HotS story being meh and other questionable stuff about it, at least the gameplay was pretty fun. Finished the campaign this morning and enjoyed the last few missions a lot, including
Dehaka finally doing something in a mission rather then mumbling about essence all day
Now lets hope the wait for Legacy of the Void doesn't take another three years like HotS did. Sheesh.
If you can't see the difference between a male having an exaggerated body for the purpose of making him look like a bad ass, and a woman having an exaggerated body for the purpose of making her look really sexy, you're being deliberately obtuse. Because if you believe that it's just over the top exaggeration, then you believe that fundamental archetype for men is musclebound badass and the fundamental archetype for women is super sexy lady and if you don't see why that's sexist objectification you're a misogynistic goose.
I wonder if it is possible to make a female character look both sexy and badass...
I am certain it is possible, but it is very rarely done. It's hard to look actually badass with your cleavage on display because that shit is impractical.
If you can't see the difference between a male having an exaggerated body for the purpose of making him look like a bad ass, and a woman having an exaggerated body for the purpose of making her look really sexy, you're being deliberately obtuse. Because if you believe that it's just over the top exaggeration, then you believe that fundamental archetype for men is musclebound badass and the fundamental archetype for women is super sexy lady and if you don't see why that's sexist objectification you're a misogynistic goose.
I wonder if it is possible to make a female character look both sexy and badass...
There are other examples, but that one is easy. Pre-Other M Samus would be another.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
+1
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
That is definitely true if you use a more all-encompassing definition of sexy (i.e., realistic) rather than "has gigantic breasts and ass and perfect body and perfect face and it's all way on display"
Also femshep can be that way, although Mass Effect as a series is preeetttty bad about that stuff.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
Kerrigan has redundant human features because she's not a Zerg, she's an Infested Terran. Her form in SC2 is actually much more alien in appearance than her original one, but I'd have preferred HOTS
keep her mostly human appearance from the start. Turning back into her Queen of Blades form with some extra purple sparkles is just eeeeh. There's not much explaining around it either. Being a simple Infested Terran doesn't really go to explaining how her ultimate primal Zerg self still has breasts
and HOTS ofc, you get a a fucking hydralisk with her voice or mind voice or whatever. The discussion wouldn't be why does she have these prominent features but why can't a woman lead anything, she was incapable of anything until she started looking like a snake with claws.
If you can't see the difference between a male having an exaggerated body for the purpose of making him look like a bad ass, and a woman having an exaggerated body for the purpose of making her look really sexy, you're being deliberately obtuse. Because if you believe that it's just over the top exaggeration, then you believe that fundamental archetype for men is musclebound badass and the fundamental archetype for women is super sexy lady and if you don't see why that's sexist objectification you're a misogynistic goose.
I wonder if it is possible to make a female character look both sexy and badass...
Well, "sexiness" is a social/cultural construct that changes over the time. Most people in America probably don't consider corsets or bound feet to be sexy but they were considered sexy by certain cultures during certain time periods. Similarly, female characters who look badass (depending on your definition of badass) may not be considered sexy in western/American culture today, it is entirely possible that could change in the future or that there could be cultures where it is considered sexy.
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Dark Raven XLaugh hard, run fast,be kindRegistered Userregular
So earlier it was mentioned that replaying missions and failing to complete an optional objective will delevel your Kerrigan. Does this apply to the post game option of "Master Archives" ?? Because the popup seemed to imply the opposite, that replaying missions via that option will give you the best possible Kerrigan for the mission, and no consequences to playing "badly" - indeed it seems like it's there specifically for replaying for missed achievements.
Oh brilliant
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
and HOTS ofc, you get a a fucking hydralisk with her voice or mind voice or whatever. The discussion wouldn't be why does she have these prominent features but why can't a woman lead anything, she was incapable of anything until she started looking like a snake with claws.
This is complete horsecrap and you know it. You take Kerrigan from SC1 and then when you make her zerg you keep her face/zerghair/silhouette so that she's clearly a formerly human woman, but drastically reduce her boobs (or just completely cover them and make them mere bumps in her armor) and get rid of the fucking carapace corset and other dumb bullshit and make her look like what an actual masterful fighter who was evolved to be such would look like. There is a seriously gigantic happy medium between "not remotely female" and "sex kitten" that people pretend doesn't exist so that they can justify dumb bullshit like chitinous stilettos.
Kerrigan should have just popped out of the chrysalis as a super bloated and badass queen morph.
I would have LOVED stomping around the game with her as a giant godzilla monster, but with the ability to show some human emotions.
Just splice in a bigger, spikier Zagara into all the cutscenes.
+4
FreiA French Prometheus UnboundDeadwoodRegistered Userregular
and HOTS ofc, you get a a fucking hydralisk with her voice or mind voice or whatever. The discussion wouldn't be why does she have these prominent features but why can't a woman lead anything, she was incapable of anything until she started looking like a snake with claws.
This is complete horsecrap and you know it. You take Kerrigan from SC1 and then when you make her zerg you keep her face/zerghair/silhouette so that she's clearly a formerly human woman, but drastically reduce her boobs (or just completely cover them and make them mere bumps in her armor) and get rid of the fucking carapace corset and other dumb bullshit and make her look like what an actual masterful fighter who was evolved to be such would look like. There is a seriously gigantic happy medium between "not remotely female" and "sex kitten" that people pretend doesn't exist so that they can justify dumb bullshit like chitinous stilettos.
Please, it's a Blizzard story, every game from now on until Metzen is dead for 20 years will be full of criticism and/or nitpicking, regardless of content.
Eh, I thought about that but a Queen body doesn't work well with the mobility. I think leaving her vaguely human shaped but without the highlights everyone is talking and a more armored look would of been great. She could still do all the Psionic powers + jumps without the useless other parts. I have to say that I love her wings/arms though.
and HOTS ofc, you get a a fucking hydralisk with her voice or mind voice or whatever. The discussion wouldn't be why does she have these prominent features but why can't a woman lead anything, she was incapable of anything until she started looking like a snake with claws.
This is complete horsecrap and you know it. You take Kerrigan from SC1 and then when you make her zerg you keep her face/zerghair/silhouette so that she's clearly a formerly human woman, but drastically reduce her boobs (or just completely cover them and make them mere bumps in her armor) and get rid of the fucking carapace corset and other dumb bullshit and make her look like what an actual masterful fighter who was evolved to be such would look like. There is a seriously gigantic happy medium between "not remotely female" and "sex kitten" that people pretend doesn't exist so that they can justify dumb bullshit like chitinous stilettos.
Please, it's a Blizzard story, every game from now on until Metzen is dead for 20 years will be full of criticism and/or nitpicking, regardless of content.
I figured they'd be full of criticism because he's bad at his job.
As for kerrigan design, if not a full blown queen, that at least something more... zergy. You can still make a feminine design without making it... that. Hydras are pretty feminine and graceful (though they really ate their wheaties since sc1). I really wanted them to do something with Hunter Killer strain hydralisks because I thought they were such a badass and 'sexy' concept in broodwar. Like a sports car. That shoots poisonous barbs.
Izsha's design was actually sort of interesting (though her character was annoying and dull as hell. What happened to all the clashing personalities of the cerebrates as advisory types? Now its just a fleshy version of the terran fem-bot), and I think a kerrigan design in that sort of vein could be interesting. Something very zergy and monstrous, but with an atrophied and vestigial human body incorporated into it like a hood ornament.
"You are in no way a human anymore, but I can still tell your origins"
As for story bashing, aside from all the usual shit dialogue, cliche beats, horrible retconning of much more interesting lore, my biggest problems were the multitude of horribly contradictory and hypocritical plot points.
How many times does kerrigan 'rationalize' her vengeance through "yeah, but you killed blah!" "Youll pay for all the evil bluh bah!", and even gets called out on it by the protoss, which her response is "yeah, but we're both murderers."
"Never EVER run away! Zerg don't run away!"
"Okay guys, run away if I die!"
"Dont underestimate Mengsk! He's a tricky motherfucker!"
"OH SHIT, I UNDERESTIMATED MENGSK, THAT TRICKY MOTHERFUCKER!"
At least with all these dumb lore retcons, the zerg aren't treading on Tyranid fiction territory anymore.
Although, during the zerus missions, I did yelp out "Holy shit, a Trygon/Mawloc!"
Starcraft vs 40k flamewar GO!
No. Don't go.
McGibs on
+1
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
If Ultralisks were half as cool as Carnifexes it would be great.
Personally, I wish that Kerrigan stayed more human.
I went into the game knowing that she'd pretty much inevitably become a zerg again, but I'm still cheering for a happy ending with her and Raynor. Whether that means she becomes human again at the end of LotV and leaves the zerg with that Broodmother she picked up on Char and started grooming as a successor, or Raynor going off with her with the zerg, it doesn't really matter to me. I'm just a sucker for the girl getting the guy and the guy getting the girl.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
So you ignore the parts of her anatomy that are mutated and alien, the claws, the tentacle hair, the skin color, etc? Comparing her to the other character you mentioned is incongruent because he an infested human. Kerrigan is a zerg, which do not wear clothes. To our knowledge the parts of her anatomy that look "exposed" could be pure armor or an incredibly hardened structure offering more protection than the rigid plates.
Is femininity itself sexual?
Are masculinity and femininity congruent when it comes to sexualization? What defines male sexuality?
As I said before, compare Kerrigan to
Infested Stukov. He's infested and he wears clothes, his face is far more deformed than Kerrigan's.
Once again, that character is infested. Its been established that infested humans or characters of any race become zombie-like and deformed upon infestation. Kerrigan was carefully modeled by the overmind, then herself to be the perfect Zerg Queen. Different circumstances for two different characters.
Except,
She wasn't modeled by the Overmind in HotS. She transformed back into the Queen of Blades by the Primal Zerg.
Not exactly true.
She isn't remodeled specifically by the Primal Zerg, she enters a pool of primordial essence and absorbs it. Its implied that she is remodeling herself.
Also, how does having glossy lips, breasts, and built in high heels make her the perfect Zerg Queen? The Zerg specifically breeds out useless traits and puts in the strongest/most useful ones. So why doesn't Kerrigan have fangs or armor on her chest?
She doesn't really have glossy lips in the game, thats mostly the statue Blizz made, also as I pointed out before how do we know the tumor-like lumps on her chest aren't a hardened form armor better than the rigid plates? Its established in HotS she can weave DNA strands so how do we know she didn't choose that appearance for herself?
As for her femininity, you are aware that her proportions are very idealized, don't you?
As is Jim Raynor's, Tychus Findlay's, Prince Valerian, and countless other male characters in the game. I would love to have their physiques. Video games very rarely reflect reality.
Did you not understand the idea that I pointed out earlier about the lack of diversity in female characters?
It seems like you just moved the goalposts. "Kerrigan has features that society would consider attractive."
"Yes, but so do the men in the game."
"But less females in media break out of that mold than men."
"How is that Kerrigan's fault?"
You're faulting Blizz for not being progressive, which isn't sexist. Its just using an established norm the same as the male characters in the game.
In order to have this discussion, you really should stop acting as if SC2 exists in a vacuum separate from culture.
I just don't see the usefulness in berating a game for having benign aspects that are part of a larger grievance with culture. Its kind of like going out of your way to dislike or attack something, especially when said thing is not the cause and merely a byproduct.
Except it's a problem when it perpetuates the stereotype. Let's say that you made a movie in 1940 that had an African American character who was unintelligent, ignorant, and needs the help and guidance of a white person. Even if you aren't just saying that he's like that just because of his race and can completely justify why that character is like that, it would still perpetuate that specific stereotype. The very fact that there is either very few or no other depictions of a certain gender or race out side of that stereotype means that when you follow that same mold, even if you can perfectly justify it within your story, you are contributing to the perpetuation of that stereotype.
Except here the "stereotype" that is being perpetuated is that Kerrigan is female.
Except women don't naturally have plump glossy lips, high heels built into their feet, or super model figures that accentuate their butts and breasts.
Countless women have plump limps, choose to wear high heels, and have "super model figures".
Also, 100 years ago, the majority of African Americans lived in poverty and were poorly educated so people would have justified portraying African Americans mainly as ignorant and uneducated as saying that they were just reflecting reality.
Yes, so for the time period would a film portraying that have been unreasonable? Whats wrong with reflecting reality? By your definition "To Kill a Mockingbird" is racist because it contains an african american character who is poor and uneducated.
Black_Heart on
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited March 2013
If you think all women being sexualized all the time is "reflecting reality" then your head is just all the way up your ass.
"Countless women have plump limps, choose to wear high heels, and "super model figures". " COUNTLESS WOMEN ALSO DO NOT HAVE THESE THINGS, AND YET THEY ARE ALMOST NEVER THE PROTAGONISTS IN VIDEO GAMES HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THE ISSUE HERE
Seriously like. Way more women do not look like that then actually do look like that. It is orders of magnitude of difference. And seriously, you're going to argue that a well muscled, badass, unstoppable dude is COMPLETELY EQUIVALENT to a woman being defined by how attractive people find her body? Are you being deliberately obtuse, or do you not understand anything about anything?
edit: Oh, also, the game takes place IN THE FUTURE. You cannot "accurately model" a time period that HASN'T HAPPENED YET so stop using stupid fucking logic to try to explain misogynistic bullshit.
You know what, I'm done fucking arguing about this. You clearly do not give a shit and want to pretend that how women are treated in video games is completely fine. Let me know how the line of thinking that women exist to be gawked at for their bodies goes for you when you interact with actual, human women.
If you think all women being sexualized all the time is "reflecting reality" then your head is just all the way up your ass.
"Countless women have plump limps, choose to wear high heels, and "super model figures". " COUNTLESS WOMEN ALSO DO NOT HAVE THESE THINGS, AND YET THEY ARE ALMOST NEVER THE PROTAGONISTS IN VIDEO GAMES HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THE ISSUE HERE
No, I see the issue.
"Is there sexism in the gaming industry and in media at large?" Yes.
"Is that Starcraft 2's fault?" No.
My argument: "Is Starcraft 2 overtly sexist?" No. (except for the ending)
edit: Oh, also, the game takes place IN THE FUTURE. You cannot "accurately model" a time period that HASN'T HAPPENED YET so stop using stupid fucking logic to try to explain misogynistic bullshit.
You know what, I'm done fucking arguing about this. You clearly do not give a shit and want to pretend that how women are treated in video games is completely fine. Let me know how the line of thinking that women exist to be gawked at for their bodies goes for you when you interact with actual, human women.
I'm glad that you're very upset and incapable of discussing something as a civil adult.
Black_Heart on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I don't need to be civil when you say ridiculous, wrong things that demean more than half the population.
the ending to HOTS isnt whats sexist (I mean, you could make that argument but it could just as easily have been reversed), Kerrigan being overly emotional and tearing up half the universe because she misses her boyfriend is
Then again Raynor did the same thing
When they never even really dated
... yeah sc2 has a stupid plot
Edit: the only thing to me really wrong with Kerrigan's appearance is the high heels, they make the whole package ridiculous because seriously what the fuck? Without those you could make the argument that basically she's just a naked human with chitin for skin or something. How about the female protoss having a belly button, because that makes sense for a race with no genitals
override367 on
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I don't need to be civil when you say ridiculous, wrong things that demean more than half the population.
I'm glad you have an opinion and can't control your emotions enough to discuss it.
Are we done here?
What you are calling an inability to control emotions is actually just a complete lack of respect for you. I see no reason to be polite or civil or try to have adult discourse with you.
Now I need to hurry and finish the campaign so I can see what all the fuss is about.
the ending to HOTS isnt whats sexist (I mean, you could make that argument but it could just as easily have been reversed), Kerrigan being overly emotional and tearing up half the universe because she misses her boyfriend is
Then again Raynor did the same thing
When they never even really dated
... yeah sc2 has a stupid plot
Edit: the only thing to me really wrong with Kerrigan's appearance is the high heels, since basically she's just a naked human with chitin for skin or something. How about the female protoss having a belly button, because that makes sense for a race with no genitals
Going on a revenge quest is a VERY common theme in media and video games. God of War for instance. Not to mention all the "man's loved one is killed by a criminal organization, man goes on a property damage rampage to avenge dead family" action movies.
Ending spoilers
The ending felt sexist to me because they spent the whole game building up how awesome, powerful, and intelligent Kerrigan is. Yet when it mattered most her fucking boyfriend had to swoop in and save her!? That completely goes against the direction of the rest of the game. She is one of the most powerful beings known to man, yet she needs saving? Its VERY bad storytelling at the least.
Her appearance I personally have no problems with.
Black_Heart on
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
the ending to HOTS isnt whats sexist (I mean, you could make that argument but it could just as easily have been reversed), Kerrigan being overly emotional and tearing up half the universe because she misses her boyfriend is
Then again Raynor did the same thing
When they never even really dated
... yeah sc2 has a stupid plot
Edit: the only thing to me really wrong with Kerrigan's appearance is the high heels, they make the whole package ridiculous because seriously what the fuck? Without those you could make the argument that basically she's just a naked human with chitin for skin or something. How about the female protoss having a belly button, because that makes sense for a race with no genitals
At least they didn't give female protoss breasts (as far as I can tell). They have no mouths, sooo....breastfeeding wouldn't so much happen.
edit: Oh! I forgot about the ignore button! Should have done that a page ago.
I don't need to be civil when you say ridiculous, wrong things that demean more than half the population.
I'm glad you have an opinion and can't control your emotions enough to discuss it.
Are we done here?
What you are calling an inability to control emotions is actually just a complete lack of respect for you. I see no reason to be polite or civil or try to have adult discourse with you.
Now I need to hurry and finish the campaign so I can see what all the fuss is about.
Yet, you're upset enough to insult me because you do not like my opinions. That seems very childish.
Whatever your opinions may be, sir. If I find your arguments and posts compelling and relevant I will address them with respect, offer my examination of them, and discuss them in a polite and civil manner.
If you wish to converse with me all I ask of you is to do the same. I will not fling personal attacks at you just because you express something I dislike.
Posts
There are a lot of things to get mad about when it comes to how zerg evolution is treated, but "apply selective pressure-->see if a mutation allows for adaptation into a stronger organism" is probably the least ridiculous.
I get more mad about the assertion that you can just take DNA from one creature and put it in another to get the same results. That is...not really how biology works. It would be great if it was though. My PhD would be done already.
edit: inb4 faster than light telepathic alien bugs yadda yadda
You should take a look at the ending cinematic from Brood War again. She absolutely does have identifiable breasts, and her carapace resembles a corset, opera gloves, and knee-high fetish boots. With a garter. That connects to nothing.
Except that the zerg don't mate so there's a much smaller chance of useful mutation occurring
Well that's real fucking stupid then.
Yes. I know. I didn't say it was plausible, just that it was the least dumb thing of all the things they do with zerg adaptation and evolution. But none of it is in any way related to actual adaptation and evolution.
edit: I started writing about mutation frequency as it pertains to mating and then remembered this is the SC2 thread, not the genetics thread.
This is her from the briefing room scenes though.
Something with lots of tempting spoilers haha
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Except,
Also, how does having glossy lips, breasts, and built in high heels make her the perfect Zerg Queen? The Zerg specifically breeds out useless traits and puts in the strongest/most useful ones. So why doesn't Kerrigan have fangs or armor on her chest?
Did you not understand the idea that I pointed out earlier about the lack of diversity in female characters?
Except women don't naturally have plump glossy lips, high heels built into their feet, or super model figures that accentuate their butts and breasts.
Also, 100 years ago, the majority of African Americans lived in poverty and were poorly educated so people would have justified portraying African Americans mainly as ignorant and uneducated as saying that they were just reflecting reality.
edit: But in case you decide to go BUT WHYYYYYYYYYY AREN'T THEY BOTH BAD
One of them makes someone strong, capable, and able to overcome whatever obstacle is placed in their path.
One of them makes someone nice to look at but beyond that not particularly useful.
And that's about as simply as I can put it without breaking the glorious edict.
There's a classic comic I can't seem to find right now that points out that indeed, as you say, those are male fantasies about male bodies, but not necessarily female ones.
I wonder if it is possible to make a female character look both sexy and badass...
Now lets hope the wait for Legacy of the Void doesn't take another three years like HotS did. Sheesh.
I am certain it is possible, but it is very rarely done. It's hard to look actually badass with your cleavage on display because that shit is impractical.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellen_Ripley
There are other examples, but that one is easy. Pre-Other M Samus would be another.
Also femshep can be that way, although Mass Effect as a series is preeetttty bad about that stuff.
I can't afford the extra $40
Well, "sexiness" is a social/cultural construct that changes over the time. Most people in America probably don't consider corsets or bound feet to be sexy but they were considered sexy by certain cultures during certain time periods. Similarly, female characters who look badass (depending on your definition of badass) may not be considered sexy in western/American culture today, it is entirely possible that could change in the future or that there could be cultures where it is considered sexy.
This is complete horsecrap and you know it. You take Kerrigan from SC1 and then when you make her zerg you keep her face/zerghair/silhouette so that she's clearly a formerly human woman, but drastically reduce her boobs (or just completely cover them and make them mere bumps in her armor) and get rid of the fucking carapace corset and other dumb bullshit and make her look like what an actual masterful fighter who was evolved to be such would look like. There is a seriously gigantic happy medium between "not remotely female" and "sex kitten" that people pretend doesn't exist so that they can justify dumb bullshit like chitinous stilettos.
I would have LOVED stomping around the game with her as a giant godzilla monster, but with the ability to show some human emotions.
Just splice in a bigger, spikier Zagara into all the cutscenes.
Please, it's a Blizzard story, every game from now on until Metzen is dead for 20 years will be full of criticism and/or nitpicking, regardless of content.
I figured they'd be full of criticism because he's bad at his job.
As for kerrigan design, if not a full blown queen, that at least something more... zergy. You can still make a feminine design without making it... that. Hydras are pretty feminine and graceful (though they really ate their wheaties since sc1). I really wanted them to do something with Hunter Killer strain hydralisks because I thought they were such a badass and 'sexy' concept in broodwar. Like a sports car. That shoots poisonous barbs.
Izsha's design was actually sort of interesting (though her character was annoying and dull as hell. What happened to all the clashing personalities of the cerebrates as advisory types? Now its just a fleshy version of the terran fem-bot), and I think a kerrigan design in that sort of vein could be interesting. Something very zergy and monstrous, but with an atrophied and vestigial human body incorporated into it like a hood ornament.
"You are in no way a human anymore, but I can still tell your origins"
As for story bashing, aside from all the usual shit dialogue, cliche beats, horrible retconning of much more interesting lore, my biggest problems were the multitude of horribly contradictory and hypocritical plot points.
"Never EVER run away! Zerg don't run away!"
"Okay guys, run away if I die!"
"Dont underestimate Mengsk! He's a tricky motherfucker!"
"OH SHIT, I UNDERESTIMATED MENGSK, THAT TRICKY MOTHERFUCKER!"
At least with all these dumb lore retcons, the zerg aren't treading on Tyranid fiction territory anymore.
Starcraft vs 40k flamewar GO!
Personally, I wish that Kerrigan stayed more human.
Not exactly true.
She doesn't really have glossy lips in the game, thats mostly the statue Blizz made, also as I pointed out before how do we know the tumor-like lumps on her chest aren't a hardened form armor better than the rigid plates? Its established in HotS she can weave DNA strands so how do we know she didn't choose that appearance for herself?
It seems like you just moved the goalposts. "Kerrigan has features that society would consider attractive."
"Yes, but so do the men in the game."
"But less females in media break out of that mold than men."
"How is that Kerrigan's fault?"
You're faulting Blizz for not being progressive, which isn't sexist. Its just using an established norm the same as the male characters in the game.
Countless women have plump limps, choose to wear high heels, and have "super model figures".
Yes, so for the time period would a film portraying that have been unreasonable? Whats wrong with reflecting reality? By your definition "To Kill a Mockingbird" is racist because it contains an african american character who is poor and uneducated.
"Countless women have plump limps, choose to wear high heels, and "super model figures". " COUNTLESS WOMEN ALSO DO NOT HAVE THESE THINGS, AND YET THEY ARE ALMOST NEVER THE PROTAGONISTS IN VIDEO GAMES HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THE ISSUE HERE
Seriously like. Way more women do not look like that then actually do look like that. It is orders of magnitude of difference. And seriously, you're going to argue that a well muscled, badass, unstoppable dude is COMPLETELY EQUIVALENT to a woman being defined by how attractive people find her body? Are you being deliberately obtuse, or do you not understand anything about anything?
edit: Oh, also, the game takes place IN THE FUTURE. You cannot "accurately model" a time period that HASN'T HAPPENED YET so stop using stupid fucking logic to try to explain misogynistic bullshit.
You know what, I'm done fucking arguing about this. You clearly do not give a shit and want to pretend that how women are treated in video games is completely fine. Let me know how the line of thinking that women exist to be gawked at for their bodies goes for you when you interact with actual, human women.
No, I see the issue.
"Is there sexism in the gaming industry and in media at large?" Yes.
"Is that Starcraft 2's fault?" No.
My argument: "Is Starcraft 2 overtly sexist?" No. (except for the ending)
I'm glad that you're very upset and incapable of discussing something as a civil adult.
I'm glad you have an opinion and can't control your emotions enough to discuss it.
Are we done here?
Then again Raynor did the same thing
When they never even really dated
... yeah sc2 has a stupid plot
Edit: the only thing to me really wrong with Kerrigan's appearance is the high heels, they make the whole package ridiculous because seriously what the fuck? Without those you could make the argument that basically she's just a naked human with chitin for skin or something. How about the female protoss having a belly button, because that makes sense for a race with no genitals
What you are calling an inability to control emotions is actually just a complete lack of respect for you. I see no reason to be polite or civil or try to have adult discourse with you.
Now I need to hurry and finish the campaign so I can see what all the fuss is about.
Going on a revenge quest is a VERY common theme in media and video games. God of War for instance. Not to mention all the "man's loved one is killed by a criminal organization, man goes on a property damage rampage to avenge dead family" action movies.
Ending spoilers
Her appearance I personally have no problems with.
At least they didn't give female protoss breasts (as far as I can tell). They have no mouths, sooo....breastfeeding wouldn't so much happen.
edit: Oh! I forgot about the ignore button! Should have done that a page ago.
Yet, you're upset enough to insult me because you do not like my opinions. That seems very childish.
Whatever your opinions may be, sir. If I find your arguments and posts compelling and relevant I will address them with respect, offer my examination of them, and discuss them in a polite and civil manner.
If you wish to converse with me all I ask of you is to do the same. I will not fling personal attacks at you just because you express something I dislike.