They never planned on having VC support on the WiiU in the first place, remember? Now.. question that decision all you want, but given the rumors that every VC release was tailored for the Wii on the backend, it makes some sense.
They might not have planned to have VC for the WiiU from the start, but there's no reason for it to be this bad. Obviously the NES and SNES emulators are running just fine, so why not have more first party Nintendo titles?
I just feel like aside from the Miiverse, which I couldn't care less about, Nintendo is really half-assing it this time around.
Half-assing compared to what? It's about on par with the VC on Wii and 3DS.
He's saying they've already got NES and SNES emulation down already
So
Why the fuck are we still waiting on pretty much the entirety of those libraries instead of Nintendo opening the floodgates and saying "have at it, give us all your money"
If they're intentionally staggering it just so they don't have to say "nothing again" on weekly releases for the Wii U, that's a pretty piss-poor reason
They never planned on having VC support on the WiiU in the first place, remember? Now.. question that decision all you want, but given the rumors that every VC release was tailored for the Wii on the backend, it makes some sense.
They might not have planned to have VC for the WiiU from the start, but there's no reason for it to be this bad. Obviously the NES and SNES emulators are running just fine, so why not have more first party Nintendo titles?
I just feel like aside from the Miiverse, which I couldn't care less about, Nintendo is really half-assing it this time around.
Half-assing compared to what? It's about on par with the VC on Wii and 3DS.
He's saying they've already got NES and SNES emulation down already
So
Why the fuck are we still waiting on pretty much the entirety of those libraries instead of Nintendo opening the floodgates and saying "have at it, give us all your money"
If they're intentionally staggering it just so they don't have to say "nothing again" on weekly releases for the Wii U, that's a pretty piss-poor reason
Of course they're intentionally staggering releases.
Nintendo Console Codes
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
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I don't even have a problem with staggering, just their apparent desire to extend that particular service as far as possible and as slowly as possible across the U's lifespan. Putting out games like Solomon's Key at this point gives them a far, far better shot of finding an audience outside of the nostalgic. I'll probably grab it, and I doubt I ever would if something more notable was out alongside it or if the catalogue was deeper. It's a smart approach, but the Wii U needs happier customers more than it needs to milk every penny out of the Virtual Console.
Flood the damn thing now and update it with obscure treasures later. Putting time and effort (which they absolutely do) into fucking Xevious instead of any number of other NES treasures is completely ridiculous.
I wouldn't be surprised if things pick up after E3, though. I'm hoping there's merit to the rumors of cross 3DS/Wii U VC, and when they aren't splitting game releases between systems the offerings will probably look a lot better. The 3DS has gotten some great NES games while I've been lamenting the Wii U's crop.
I'm ok with staggered releases if it's like 2-3 games a week. Like they used to do on Wii. Not this one-game-a-month-if-we're-lucky mickey mouse bullshit they're doing on 3DS. Sure, eventually they won't have any new games to release but that'll quite a library. What's the point if we're all dead by then?
Man, if I had any sway at Nintendo I'd be pushing the Virtual Console stuff like mad. First thing would be to open that library up big time. Get more releases from the Wii -> WiiU converted quickly and drop the overall pricing on the games. For example:
Next, I'd add a a $1 per game share option to allow games purchased on the WiiU (if possible) to be played on the 3DS. This would require a separate transfer tool that moves the save data between the systems, ala Monster Hunter.
Finally, I would offer a "Club Nintendo" discount to users that pre-purchase VC games. That's right, if you have a linked CN account, you can pre-purchase your VC game and get 25% off the cost of the game. Game releases would have to be sent out two weeks ahead of release to give players time to get their orders in. Did I mention that the pre-purchased game would be sitting on your WiiU/3DS menu screen and automatically download/install at midnight?
These suggestions sound a little nutty, but I think that Nintendo would make a lot more money in the long run just by the quantity of games they would sell. Gamers like us would be all over the pre-sell thing so they wouldn't lose a lot of money there. Plus it creates hype and excitement weekly across various gaming news sites. Makes 3DS and WiiU owners happy while giving a bit of extra profit for each game sold.
What do you guys think? Too nutty?
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Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
I went and took a look, here's some fun information: Every current NES game on the Wii U Virtual Console is available in either the 3DS VC or as a 3D Classic. The only two games available as 3DS Classics that aren't on the Wii U are Twinbee and Urban Champion.
I'm betting the current selection of Wii U Virtual Console games is being dictated by a need to somewhat parallel the catalogue of the 3DS VC before they open up cross-compatibility.
Castlevania
DigDug
Ghost N Goblins
Gradius
Mega Mans 2-4
Mighty Bomb Jack
Ninja Gaiden
Super Contra
SMB: The Lost Levels
Not counting Ambassador games (or the two I already mentioned), those are the only NES games on the 3DS that aren't available on the Wii U. Two of the scheduled 30 cent games moving forward are Yoshi and Donkey Kong; the former is an Ambassador game (as was Balloon Fight), the latter a special promotion for the 3DS. The 30 cent sale ends August 13, or 13 weeks from now. The only NES games on 3DS not mentioned above are:
Donkey Kong Jr.
Ice Climber
Metroid
NES Open Tournament Golf
Super Mario Bros
Wrecking Crew
Zeldas 1 and 2
All together you get 22 games. My guess is we see those show up on the Wii U (alongside a smattering of other SNES games) before the end of August, and we get at least NES cross compatibility in a fall software update.
When the virtual console was first announced way way back before the Wii was out, it seemed to be implied that we would have a huge library of old NES, SNES, and N64 games to choose from and relive our pasts. Of course they staggered releases, that was inevitable, but who can remember being disappointed week after week? It would always be some shmup or fighting game from the turbografx16 that nobody heard of. Every now and then they'd surprise us with Megaman or Harvest Moon or something, but it was mostly pretty sad. I suppose now after 6 years there's a decent collection, but I wish it had been there from the start. Many people stopped following VC releases altogether.
I'm not an expert, but in my mind it would be more appealing to customers to release half a dozen games each week so that there was an impressive library of games to choose from, than try to use the VC as a way to add padding to the few (yet great) games that were being released.
I hope that they very quickly move over the Wii VC to the Wii U VC. I don't want it to take another six years.
Man, if I had any sway at Nintendo I'd be pushing the Virtual Console stuff like mad. First thing would be to open that library up big time. Get more releases from the Wii -> WiiU converted quickly and drop the overall pricing on the games. For example:
Next, I'd add a a $1 per game share option to allow games purchased on the WiiU (if possible) to be played on the 3DS. This would require a separate transfer tool that moves the save data between the systems, ala Monster Hunter.
Finally, I would offer a "Club Nintendo" discount to users that pre-purchase VC games. That's right, if you have a linked CN account, you can pre-purchase your VC game and get 25% off the cost of the game. Game releases would have to be sent out two weeks ahead of release to give players time to get their orders in. Did I mention that the pre-purchased game would be sitting on your WiiU/3DS menu screen and automatically download/install at midnight?
These suggestions sound a little nutty, but I think that Nintendo would make a lot more money in the long run just by the quantity of games they would sell. Gamers like us would be all over the pre-sell thing so they wouldn't lose a lot of money there. Plus it creates hype and excitement weekly across various gaming news sites. Makes 3DS and WiiU owners happy while giving a bit of extra profit for each game sold.
What do you guys think? Too nutty?
Thank you Mr. Iwata.
Nintendo Console Codes
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
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That's a nice fantasy, MNC Dover. Kinda like the ending of Brazil.
Yeah I know, I know. I just think it's crazy the prices they charge for older titles. Even the most staunch PA person still sighs a little bit at the $5 tag on NES stuff. Are we spoiled? No doubt about that, but we're also buying games that we've probably purchased at least once before already.
Nintendo has the perfect library and opportunity with the eShop to create a mini-Steam set-up. Get some software up there and have a big Steam Sale and slash everything by 50% for a day or something. It would be awesome to say some of those classic Steam lines like, "I already own two games in that bundle, but it's too good to pass up!" or "I don't think I'll ever get through by eShop backlog!"
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
That's a nice fantasy, MNC Dover. Kinda like the ending of Brazil.
Yeah I know, I know. I just think it's crazy the prices they charge for older titles. Even the most staunch PA person still sighs a little bit at the $5 tag on NES stuff. Are we spoiled? No doubt about that, but we're also buying games that we've probably purchased at least once before already.
Nintendo has the perfect library and opportunity with the eShop to create a mini-Steam set-up. Get some software up there and have a big Steam Sale and slash everything by 50% for a day or something. It would be awesome to say some of those classic Steam lines like, "I already own two games in that bundle, but it's too good to pass up!" or "I don't think I'll ever get through by eShop backlog!"
I could see them doing a sliding scale for pricing, but some games are definitely worth the price they charge.
skeldare on
Nintendo Console Codes
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
That's a nice fantasy, MNC Dover. Kinda like the ending of Brazil.
Yeah I know, I know. I just think it's crazy the prices they charge for older titles. Even the most staunch PA person still sighs a little bit at the $5 tag on NES stuff. Are we spoiled? No doubt about that, but we're also buying games that we've probably purchased at least once before already.
Nintendo has the perfect library and opportunity with the eShop to create a mini-Steam set-up. Get some software up there and have a big Steam Sale and slash everything by 50% for a day or something. It would be awesome to say some of those classic Steam lines like, "I already own two games in that bundle, but it's too good to pass up!" or "I don't think I'll ever get through by eShop backlog!"
Oh believe me, they'd make a lot more money off me if they did it your way. I'm willing to dish out $5-10 for a VC game but I'll be damned if I do it twice. With your plan, I'd happily chip in the extra dollar or so to get it on both Wii U and 3DS. That's a dollar more per game they'd never have gotten from me.
Nintendo isn't that progressive though. I'd love for them to prove me wrong.
I agree that $5 is a good price for a good game, but not a bad one. Nintendo has used the sliding scale, but I've noticed that they slide it more up than down. SMB on the GB was $1 more expensive than other titles.
Need a voice actor? Hire me at bengrayVO.com
Legends of Runeterra: MNCdover #moc
Switch ID: MNC Dover SW-1154-3107-1051 Steam ID Twitch Page
You're almost implying that putting out a cheaper console isn't killing them
Even though no one's buying the damn thing
They've got a cool new feature! We've seen, in this very thread, people that would never have touched a Call of Duty game before ended up buying Black Ops II because 1) it was available on their shiny new Nintendo console, finally! and 2) it had off-screen play
Someone only buying a Nintendo console to play Nintendo games is a problem, whether you'd like to accept it as one or not personally. That's why every time there's a new Nintendo system, they bend over backwards trying to tell you "we have third party support! This time it'll be different!"
Yes, I am implying that putting out a cheaper console isn't what is 'killing them', even though they're not even remotely in danger of 'dying'.
I have cut this post short, but I can say that it's not so much the console is "cheaper" than next generation ones it's more that it doesn't do anything other than Nintendo Exclusives compared to dirty dirt cheap 360/PS3 consoles. By having comparable specs but a higher price than "last gens" consoles, it is sort of making a self-supporting problem of being perceived as not next gen while simultaneously not being worth porting next gen games onto (exception being Ubisoft). While I can see your overall point that you buy a Nintendo console for Nintendo games (honestly, that statement is pretty much a tautology at this point), the problem I have is that I don't want to buy a console only for exclusives anymore. I want to buy a console, plop it in front of the TV and use it on a regular basis (Once a week, minimum). I do not want to be scuffing off a layer of dust from my Wii (like last gen) because Nintendo finally decided to grace us with their apparently huge effort to release Super Mario Galaxy 2 in Australasia 6 months after the US release. Meanwhile the amount of use the Wii had in those six months amounted to one week or two of playing whatever the previous game was (Little King's Story as an example).
The point of the complaints about third party software is they fill out the release schedule between Nintendo's releases. When you are using a console to play a game once every three to six months (pretty much Nintendo's release schedule), that's not a good thing IMO and makes me really question why I should put down the money. I'm going to speculate that others may have exactly the same barrier. When the WiiU was coming out last year, and I know I usually write (especially in the industry thread) that I wait a year for a console to be out before buying, I actually really liked the idea of the WiiU and thought that if Nintendo did have third parties on board (EG like EA) that it could be a good option until I saw what Microsoft/Sony did in future. The problem is Nintendo - really this is just an inevitable fact by this point - have again already lost third party developers, so the past few months on the Wii have been utterly dire from a release point of view. This makes me extremely glad I didn't let my enthusiasm get to me and buy the console on release. Additionally, I haven't even found Nintendo's first party efforts even remotely compelling this time around so far from what they have released. NSMBWiiU was a soulless derivative copy of NSMBWii2, reminding me very much of the kind of repackaging of the same thing, different wrapping that is why I don't buy Call of Duty games every year. The one game I was truly looking forward to and was pushing me towards buying a WiiU was Rayman Legends*, which got assassinated in the crib by Ubisoft and is now coming out on 360 (where I shall proceed to buy it).
Of the stuff released the only thing I really want is Lego City Undercover, but that's one game and what would I do with a very expensive (comparatively) console until something else comes out? The answer is pretty much nothing as there is a constant stream of stuff on my 360 that I want to actually play. Really, that's why I buy consoles: To actually use them. The idea of buying a console to play a great game once every six months is rather, well, entirely daft to me now. It's something I would have done a while ago, but if I was going to do that now I would need Nintendo to come through on third parties. I, even if you and many others don't care whatsoever, need third party options. Nintendo even have compelling reasons for me to buy a third party game on a WiiU as opposed to a more powerful console or 360/PS3. For one thing, while I don't know how I feel entirely about off screen play, being married and my wife liking to watch TV means that I could play say, Injustice, while she was watching the Living Room (or whatever). That's compelling and is a feature the 360/PS3/PS4/Nextbox don't have. Additionally some of the touch screen gameplay stuff has huge potential. I actually ended up hating ZombiU, but the game showed some serious potential for things you could do with the gamepad in many ways - it's not just a stupid gimmick that doesn't add to gameplay (which is how I feel about motion controls for the most part).
It's not like Nintendo aren't making games for me. Wonderful 101: Amazing. Pikmin 3? Do want. Funding Bayonetta 2? Fuck yeah. Whatever new 3D mario they do? I bet you it's going to be awesome. But what's the release schedule for these games? I bet you it's pretty fucking awful and so I can see the situation with the Wii happening all over again. I buy it, play one game on it for a handful (or bunch) of hours, enjoy it, finish it and then it's back to the mainstay console until the next thing I want comes out. If I had anywhere near the money, time and luxury to do that I would find the argument of buy a PS4/WiiU or NextBox/WiiU or PC/WiiU or whatever entirely compelling - but I don't. I cannot justify spending a lot of money on a console to use it once every 3-5 months when Nintendo finally bother releasing a game I really want (assuming they even bother getting it day and date to Australia when they release it in the US - another debatable point to me).
I think if Nintendo are to turn the console around, they absolutely need to get third parties on board in some manner. They need to convince EA that they really can just port games using Frostbite 3 onto the system. They need Activision to keep thinking releasing Call of Duty on it is worth it. They need third parties to make sure they don't have what they have now: A barren release schedule with a handful of their own games to look forward to, then a bunch of downgraded ports or releases of things out for months on the previous 360/PS3. They have to take control of the narrative and not allow the "The WiiU is a failure because Nintendo can't get third parties, so nobody is buying it and so third parties can't be bothered putting their games on it". It's got to the point where people pretty much regard that statement as utterly immutable truth and feel Nintendo have already failed, when in reality Nintendo can probably get away with doing this anyway. That's because there are plenty of people who do just buy their consoles for their software and will probably pick it up once something they want comes out (3D Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Brothers and Zelda come to mind for me). For me that won't be enough anymore, I need the option of buying 3rd party games to fill in the blanks between major releases and not just rely on Nintendos own nebulous release schedule. I am not going to buy any argument that goes, well get an expensive X secondary console and a WiiU. A gaming PC, a nextbox or PS4 will give me plenty of games to play on a regular basis or have backcatalogs of stuff I already don't own to fill in gaps. For those of you who really like Nintendo games, it's an obvious solution but for others who might not be as committed, that's a hard argument to swallow for a console that may see use only every few months (as what happened to my Wii).
For me it's no longer enough and given the current sales of the WiiU (which are dismal) it's probably not enough for many others as well. It's why I chose, albeit at the time without the knowledge this third party effect would happen, not to buy a WiiU last year and I am thankful for that: I would have been feeling very disappointed right now personally. As opposed to just being disappointed to see Nintendo content to just allow all the narrative around their console completely abandon them. The fact people are confused it was a new console, third parties abandoning them and their inability to really sell the tablet controlls functions effectively. It's an incredible shame to the potential of the system to let third parties basically run away with a narrative of "Nintendo's system isn't worth porting to because X" where "X" is some completely inane reason. Personally I have much more respect for the Avalanche Studios guys, who basically just straight up said "We aren't making games for it because it hasn't sold". That's at least honest, but is again adding to that self-perpetuating prophecy that the console isn't selling because of no games and it isn't getting games because it isn't selling.
There are definitely features on the WiiU that intrigue me, even though I am unsure how much I would use them overall like off-screen play, but they aren't trying to sell people on buying the system. The big problems they are having with third parties are a big part of that, so it's not an insignificant or simply ignorable problem. Saying "Just get a good PC for decent 360/PS3 games and a WiiU for Nintendo" is not a good argument to sell people on the console. People who really can't live without Nintendo games already own it.
*Full disclaimer, I felt Rayman Origins was the best 2D platformer I had played in years.
You're almost implying that putting out a cheaper console isn't killing them
Even though no one's buying the damn thing
They've got a cool new feature! We've seen, in this very thread, people that would never have touched a Call of Duty game before ended up buying Black Ops II because 1) it was available on their shiny new Nintendo console, finally! and 2) it had off-screen play
Someone only buying a Nintendo console to play Nintendo games is a problem, whether you'd like to accept it as one or not personally. That's why every time there's a new Nintendo system, they bend over backwards trying to tell you "we have third party support! This time it'll be different!"
Yes, I am implying that putting out a cheaper console isn't what is 'killing them', even though they're not even remotely in danger of 'dying'.
I have cut this post short, but I can say that it's not so much the console is "cheaper" than next generation ones it's more that it doesn't do anything other than Nintendo Exclusives compared to dirty dirt cheap 360/PS3 consoles. By having comparable specs but a higher price than "last gens" consoles, it is sort of making a self-supporting problem of being perceived as not next gen while simultaneously not being worth porting next gen games onto (exception being Ubisoft). While I can see your overall point that you buy a Nintendo console for Nintendo games (honestly, that statement is pretty much a tautology at this point), the problem I have is that I don't want to buy a console only for exclusives anymore. I want to buy a console, plop it in front of the TV and use it on a regular basis (Once a week, minimum). I do not want to be scuffing off a layer of dust from my Wii (like last gen) because Nintendo finally decided to grace us with their apparently huge effort to release Super Mario Galaxy 2 in Australasia 6 months after the US release. Meanwhile the amount of use the Wii had in those six months amounted to one week or two of playing whatever the previous game was (Little King's Story as an example).
The point of the complaints about third party software is they fill out the release schedule between Nintendo's releases. When you are using a console to play a game once every three to six months (pretty much Nintendo's release schedule), that's not a good thing IMO and makes me really question why I should put down the money. I'm going to speculate that others may have exactly the same barrier. When the WiiU was coming out last year, and I know I usually write (especially in the industry thread) that I wait a year for a console to be out before buying, I actually really liked the idea of the WiiU and thought that if Nintendo did have third parties on board (EG like EA) that it could be a good option until I saw what Microsoft/Sony did in future. The problem is Nintendo - really this is just an inevitable fact by this point - have again already lost third party developers, so the past few months on the Wii have been utterly dire from a release point of view. This makes me extremely glad I didn't let my enthusiasm get to me and buy the console on release. Additionally, I haven't even found Nintendo's first party efforts even remotely compelling this time around so far from what they have released. NSMBWiiU was a soulless derivative copy of NSMBWii2, reminding me very much of the kind of repackaging of the same thing, different wrapping that is why I don't buy Call of Duty games every year. The one game I was truly looking forward to and was pushing me towards buying a WiiU was Rayman Legends*, which got assassinated in the crib by Ubisoft and is now coming out on 360 (where I shall proceed to buy it).
Of the stuff released the only thing I really want is Lego City Undercover, but that's one game and what would I do with a very expensive (comparatively) console until something else comes out? The answer is pretty much nothing as there is a constant stream of stuff on my 360 that I want to actually play. Really, that's why I buy consoles: To actually use them. The idea of buying a console to play a great game once every six months is rather, well, entirely daft to me now. It's something I would have done a while ago, but if I was going to do that now I would need Nintendo to come through on third parties. I, even if you and many others don't care whatsoever, need third party options. Nintendo even have compelling reasons for me to buy a third party game on a WiiU as opposed to a more powerful console or 360/PS3. For one thing, while I don't know how I feel entirely about off screen play, being married and my wife liking to watch TV means that I could play say, Injustice, while she was watching the Living Room (or whatever). That's compelling and is a feature the 360/PS3/PS4/Nextbox don't have. Additionally some of the touch screen gameplay stuff has huge potential. I actually ended up hating ZombiU, but the game showed some serious potential for things you could do with the gamepad in many ways - it's not just a stupid gimmick that doesn't add to gameplay (which is how I feel about motion controls for the most part).
It's not like Nintendo aren't making games for me. Wonderful 101: Amazing. Pikmin 3? Do want. Funding Bayonetta 2? Fuck yeah. Whatever new 3D mario they do? I bet you it's going to be awesome. But what's the release schedule for these games? I bet you it's pretty fucking awful and so I can see the situation with the Wii happening all over again. I buy it, play one game on it for a handful (or bunch) of hours, enjoy it, finish it and then it's back to the mainstay console until the next thing I want comes out. If I had anywhere near the money, time and luxury to do that I would find the argument of buy a PS4/WiiU or NextBox/WiiU or PC/WiiU or whatever entirely compelling - but I don't. I cannot justify spending a lot of money on a console to use it once every 3-5 months when Nintendo finally bother releasing a game I really want (assuming they even bother getting it day and date to Australia when they release it in the US - another debatable point to me).
I think if Nintendo are to turn the console around, they absolutely need to get third parties on board in some manner. They need to convince EA that they really can just port games using Frostbite 3 onto the system. They need Activision to keep thinking releasing Call of Duty on it is worth it. They need third parties to make sure they don't have what they have now: A barren release schedule with a handful of their own games to look forward to, then a bunch of downgraded ports or releases of things out for months on the previous 360/PS3. They have to take control of the narrative and not allow the "The WiiU is a failure because Nintendo can't get third parties, so nobody is buying it and so third parties can't be bothered putting their games on it". It's got to the point where people pretty much regard that statement as utterly immutable truth and feel Nintendo have already failed, when in reality Nintendo can probably get away with doing this anyway. That's because there are plenty of people who do just buy their consoles for their software and will probably pick it up once something they want comes out (3D Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Brothers and Zelda come to mind for me). For me that won't be enough anymore, I need the option of buying 3rd party games to fill in the blanks between major releases and not just rely on Nintendos own nebulous release schedule. I am not going to buy any argument that goes, well get an expensive X secondary console and a WiiU. A gaming PC, a nextbox or PS4 will give me plenty of games to play on a regular basis or have backcatalogs of stuff I already don't own to fill in gaps. For those of you who really like Nintendo games, it's an obvious solution but for others who might not be as committed, that's a hard argument to swallow for a console that may see use only every few months (as what happened to my Wii).
For me it's no longer enough and given the current sales of the WiiU (which are dismal) it's probably not enough for many others as well. It's why I chose, albeit at the time without the knowledge this third party effect would happen, not to buy a WiiU last year and I am thankful for that: I would have been feeling very disappointed right now personally. As opposed to just being disappointed to see Nintendo content to just allow all the narrative around their console completely abandon them. The fact people are confused it was a new console, third parties abandoning them and their inability to really sell the tablet controlls functions effectively. It's an incredible shame to the potential of the system to let third parties basically run away with a narrative of "Nintendo's system isn't worth porting to because X" where "X" is some completely inane reason. Personally I have much more respect for the Avalanche Studios guys, who basically just straight up said "We aren't making games for it because it hasn't sold". That's at least honest, but is again adding to that self-perpetuating prophecy that the console isn't selling because of no games and it isn't getting games because it isn't selling.
There are definitely features on the WiiU that intrigue me, even though I am unsure how much I would use them overall like off-screen play, but they aren't trying to sell people on buying the system. The big problems they are having with third parties are a big part of that, so it's not an insignificant or simply ignorable problem. Saying "Just get a good PC for decent 360/PS3 games and a WiiU for Nintendo" is not a good argument to sell people on the console. People who really can't live without Nintendo games already own it.
*Full disclaimer, I felt Rayman Origins was the best 2D platformer I had played in years.
Holy fuck how long did it take you to write that.
Nintendo Console Codes
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
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HAIL HYDRA
+1
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Wii had a ton of games released during its first five years. I hardly went a month without picking up something new and exciting.
Meanwhile I'm up to a grand total of 3 360 games and 4 PS3 games. Different strokes for different folks.
The Wii U ain't no Wii though when it comes to games being released, that's for sure. Retail releases will be down across the board because of rising prices and consolidation but the Wii U's lack of current gen ports is embarrassing. Makes sense though; they did an awful job convincing publishers (with a sack of money and other considerations) to get these ports out and running. That they haven't even shored things up out east is particularly terrifying.
So, I'm probably going to pick up a Wii U tonight/tomorrow once my paycheck clears. Figure it's time, what with the persistent rumors of DQX getting a localization and Monster Hunter 3 U. Stupid question though -- Basic or Deluxe? Is the only difference the color + the SD card?
Should I expect to budget for extra stuff, like a controller?
What games are must haves nowadays? I'm definitely grabbing MH3U, probably via the eShop. Anything else a must have?
So, I'm probably going to pick up a Wii U tonight/tomorrow once my paycheck clears. Figure it's time, what with the persistent rumors of DQX getting a localization and Monster Hunter 3 U. Stupid question though -- Basic or Deluxe? Is the only difference the color + the SD card?
Should I expect to budget for extra stuff, like a controller?
What games are must haves nowadays? I'm definitely grabbing MH3U, probably via the eShop. Anything else a must have?
There is no SD Card, just hard drive space. I'd personally get the basic, buy a decent sized external drive, and then pick up Lego City, MAYBE ZombiU and MH3U. To start.
You don't need another controller right now.
Nintendo Console Codes
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Deluxe, especially considering you're getting MH3U digitally. That's five bucks back right there. No extra controller needed and you'll still have plenty of room on the built in memory to get another game or two later.
That is impressive, Aegeri. And I agree with quite a bit of it. I don't buy a lot of games a year, and my tastes rarely run to the big-budget Triple-A games, but I can absolutely see why they're necessary.
But even if the third parties never quite get back on board, I can honestly say I'm pretty happy with this thing. And I'm looking forward to the rest of this year's slate, whatever that may be.
So I have the deluxe Wii U but I'm torn on whether or not I should start buying my games online. I know they load faster, give me cash back, and take up less space but I like the artifice of having a shelf of disks. I'm thinking maybe I might start buying my games online and then picking up the discs when they drop in price.
I hope that we'll eventually be able to install games whole like you can on the 360.
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
I am not saying, as some are, that Nintendo is doomed. That is obviously ridiculous because they are comfortably able to make a profit even when not being the main leader of a generation (unlike Microsoft or Sony). My core tl;dr point was that Nintendo shouldn't be defended in their failure to get third parties, it should instead have been about pushing features that the WiiU legitimately has (off screen play) on their third party ports vs. maybe having a nicer looking game. Otherwise why bother with the big expensive tablet if you can't sell it as an advantage in the first place?
As a Wii U and PS3 owner my real problem with Wii U's multiplatform situation, aside from it being mostly ports of year old games, is that Nintendo gives me no real incentive to buy the games on Wii U. Even in the ideal situation where the port is on time, looks and runs as well as the PS3 version and has all of the DLC.... why should I bother with Wii U version? I can't come up with one. I guess off-screen play might work for some people, but I didn't spend my hard earned money on an HDTV in order to play games on a fucking controller. It's totally shallow of me, but an actual achievement system would have gone a long way. That's one feature I care about that will automatically make me purchase the PS3 version instead.
So even if Nintendo manages to convince third parties to change their tune, I'm still not buying the games on Wii U unless I can't get it anywhere else. That's a problem.
@Aegeri: Of course, then you end up with some third parties (Like Crystal Dynamics) who say they wouldn't port a game like Tomb Raider unless they can think of something unique to do with the thing, even though the bare minimum (Menus, weapon selection, off screen play) would probably be enough. Then again, if you don't do anything interesting with it, you end up running into Ridley's issue. Probably not a lot of easy answers here, is there?
So I have the deluxe Wii U but I'm torn on whether or not I should start buying my games online. I know they load faster, give me cash back, and take up less space but I like the artifice of having a shelf of disks. I'm thinking maybe I might start buying my games online and then picking up the discs when they drop in price.
I hope that we'll eventually be able to install games whole like you can on the 360.
I was torn on that too. I only did so for my 3DS games, since I like the idea of carrying multiple carts with me on the bus. Not sure I like the idea as much for actual consoles.
... But then again, I've been to 3 stores and exactly 0 of them have had Monster Hunter 3U in stock ...
Deluxe, especially considering you're getting MH3U digitally. That's five bucks back right there. No extra controller needed and you'll still have plenty of room on the built in memory to get another game or two later.
No controller needed? Hm, not even a Wiimote/Nunchuck or a Wii U Pro controller? Not sure how well the tablet works for MH3U / Lego City.
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He's saying they've already got NES and SNES emulation down already
So
Why the fuck are we still waiting on pretty much the entirety of those libraries instead of Nintendo opening the floodgates and saying "have at it, give us all your money"
If they're intentionally staggering it just so they don't have to say "nothing again" on weekly releases for the Wii U, that's a pretty piss-poor reason
Of course they're intentionally staggering releases.
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Flood the damn thing now and update it with obscure treasures later. Putting time and effort (which they absolutely do) into fucking Xevious instead of any number of other NES treasures is completely ridiculous.
I wouldn't be surprised if things pick up after E3, though. I'm hoping there's merit to the rumors of cross 3DS/Wii U VC, and when they aren't splitting game releases between systems the offerings will probably look a lot better. The 3DS has gotten some great NES games while I've been lamenting the Wii U's crop.
No concrete info on anything bu the obvious new 3D Mario game, bu it appears as though they have a plan of sorts. Looking forward to further info.
OMG, Nintendo has plans. Who woulda thunk it
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Good to know though. I'm guessing the Wii U will have a decent year (I'm hedging slightly).
GB, GBC, GG $1
Com64, NES, SMS, MSX $2
GBA, SNES, GEN, TG16, Neo-Geo $4
N64 $6
Arcade $2-$6 (by game)
Next, I'd add a a $1 per game share option to allow games purchased on the WiiU (if possible) to be played on the 3DS. This would require a separate transfer tool that moves the save data between the systems, ala Monster Hunter.
Finally, I would offer a "Club Nintendo" discount to users that pre-purchase VC games. That's right, if you have a linked CN account, you can pre-purchase your VC game and get 25% off the cost of the game. Game releases would have to be sent out two weeks ahead of release to give players time to get their orders in. Did I mention that the pre-purchased game would be sitting on your WiiU/3DS menu screen and automatically download/install at midnight?
These suggestions sound a little nutty, but I think that Nintendo would make a lot more money in the long run just by the quantity of games they would sell. Gamers like us would be all over the pre-sell thing so they wouldn't lose a lot of money there. Plus it creates hype and excitement weekly across various gaming news sites. Makes 3DS and WiiU owners happy while giving a bit of extra profit for each game sold.
What do you guys think? Too nutty?
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I'm betting the current selection of Wii U Virtual Console games is being dictated by a need to somewhat parallel the catalogue of the 3DS VC before they open up cross-compatibility.
DigDug
Ghost N Goblins
Gradius
Mega Mans 2-4
Mighty Bomb Jack
Ninja Gaiden
Super Contra
SMB: The Lost Levels
Not counting Ambassador games (or the two I already mentioned), those are the only NES games on the 3DS that aren't available on the Wii U. Two of the scheduled 30 cent games moving forward are Yoshi and Donkey Kong; the former is an Ambassador game (as was Balloon Fight), the latter a special promotion for the 3DS. The 30 cent sale ends August 13, or 13 weeks from now. The only NES games on 3DS not mentioned above are:
Ice Climber
Metroid
NES Open Tournament Golf
Super Mario Bros
Wrecking Crew
Zeldas 1 and 2
All together you get 22 games. My guess is we see those show up on the Wii U (alongside a smattering of other SNES games) before the end of August, and we get at least NES cross compatibility in a fall software update.
I'm not an expert, but in my mind it would be more appealing to customers to release half a dozen games each week so that there was an impressive library of games to choose from, than try to use the VC as a way to add padding to the few (yet great) games that were being released.
I hope that they very quickly move over the Wii VC to the Wii U VC. I don't want it to take another six years.
Thank you Mr. Iwata.
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As I near 90% completion on Lego City, I just want to go on record as saying the Mime is, by FAR, the most chatty disguise I've unlocked yet.
Yeah I know, I know. I just think it's crazy the prices they charge for older titles. Even the most staunch PA person still sighs a little bit at the $5 tag on NES stuff. Are we spoiled? No doubt about that, but we're also buying games that we've probably purchased at least once before already.
Nintendo has the perfect library and opportunity with the eShop to create a mini-Steam set-up. Get some software up there and have a big Steam Sale and slash everything by 50% for a day or something. It would be awesome to say some of those classic Steam lines like, "I already own two games in that bundle, but it's too good to pass up!" or "I don't think I'll ever get through by eShop backlog!"
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Damn, I need to unlock that.
I could see them doing a sliding scale for pricing, but some games are definitely worth the price they charge.
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Oh believe me, they'd make a lot more money off me if they did it your way. I'm willing to dish out $5-10 for a VC game but I'll be damned if I do it twice. With your plan, I'd happily chip in the extra dollar or so to get it on both Wii U and 3DS. That's a dollar more per game they'd never have gotten from me.
Nintendo isn't that progressive though. I'd love for them to prove me wrong.
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I have cut this post short, but I can say that it's not so much the console is "cheaper" than next generation ones it's more that it doesn't do anything other than Nintendo Exclusives compared to dirty dirt cheap 360/PS3 consoles. By having comparable specs but a higher price than "last gens" consoles, it is sort of making a self-supporting problem of being perceived as not next gen while simultaneously not being worth porting next gen games onto (exception being Ubisoft). While I can see your overall point that you buy a Nintendo console for Nintendo games (honestly, that statement is pretty much a tautology at this point), the problem I have is that I don't want to buy a console only for exclusives anymore. I want to buy a console, plop it in front of the TV and use it on a regular basis (Once a week, minimum). I do not want to be scuffing off a layer of dust from my Wii (like last gen) because Nintendo finally decided to grace us with their apparently huge effort to release Super Mario Galaxy 2 in Australasia 6 months after the US release. Meanwhile the amount of use the Wii had in those six months amounted to one week or two of playing whatever the previous game was (Little King's Story as an example).
The point of the complaints about third party software is they fill out the release schedule between Nintendo's releases. When you are using a console to play a game once every three to six months (pretty much Nintendo's release schedule), that's not a good thing IMO and makes me really question why I should put down the money. I'm going to speculate that others may have exactly the same barrier. When the WiiU was coming out last year, and I know I usually write (especially in the industry thread) that I wait a year for a console to be out before buying, I actually really liked the idea of the WiiU and thought that if Nintendo did have third parties on board (EG like EA) that it could be a good option until I saw what Microsoft/Sony did in future. The problem is Nintendo - really this is just an inevitable fact by this point - have again already lost third party developers, so the past few months on the Wii have been utterly dire from a release point of view. This makes me extremely glad I didn't let my enthusiasm get to me and buy the console on release. Additionally, I haven't even found Nintendo's first party efforts even remotely compelling this time around so far from what they have released. NSMBWiiU was a soulless derivative copy of NSMBWii2, reminding me very much of the kind of repackaging of the same thing, different wrapping that is why I don't buy Call of Duty games every year. The one game I was truly looking forward to and was pushing me towards buying a WiiU was Rayman Legends*, which got assassinated in the crib by Ubisoft and is now coming out on 360 (where I shall proceed to buy it).
Of the stuff released the only thing I really want is Lego City Undercover, but that's one game and what would I do with a very expensive (comparatively) console until something else comes out? The answer is pretty much nothing as there is a constant stream of stuff on my 360 that I want to actually play. Really, that's why I buy consoles: To actually use them. The idea of buying a console to play a great game once every six months is rather, well, entirely daft to me now. It's something I would have done a while ago, but if I was going to do that now I would need Nintendo to come through on third parties. I, even if you and many others don't care whatsoever, need third party options. Nintendo even have compelling reasons for me to buy a third party game on a WiiU as opposed to a more powerful console or 360/PS3. For one thing, while I don't know how I feel entirely about off screen play, being married and my wife liking to watch TV means that I could play say, Injustice, while she was watching the Living Room (or whatever). That's compelling and is a feature the 360/PS3/PS4/Nextbox don't have. Additionally some of the touch screen gameplay stuff has huge potential. I actually ended up hating ZombiU, but the game showed some serious potential for things you could do with the gamepad in many ways - it's not just a stupid gimmick that doesn't add to gameplay (which is how I feel about motion controls for the most part).
It's not like Nintendo aren't making games for me. Wonderful 101: Amazing. Pikmin 3? Do want. Funding Bayonetta 2? Fuck yeah. Whatever new 3D mario they do? I bet you it's going to be awesome. But what's the release schedule for these games? I bet you it's pretty fucking awful and so I can see the situation with the Wii happening all over again. I buy it, play one game on it for a handful (or bunch) of hours, enjoy it, finish it and then it's back to the mainstay console until the next thing I want comes out. If I had anywhere near the money, time and luxury to do that I would find the argument of buy a PS4/WiiU or NextBox/WiiU or PC/WiiU or whatever entirely compelling - but I don't. I cannot justify spending a lot of money on a console to use it once every 3-5 months when Nintendo finally bother releasing a game I really want (assuming they even bother getting it day and date to Australia when they release it in the US - another debatable point to me).
I think if Nintendo are to turn the console around, they absolutely need to get third parties on board in some manner. They need to convince EA that they really can just port games using Frostbite 3 onto the system. They need Activision to keep thinking releasing Call of Duty on it is worth it. They need third parties to make sure they don't have what they have now: A barren release schedule with a handful of their own games to look forward to, then a bunch of downgraded ports or releases of things out for months on the previous 360/PS3. They have to take control of the narrative and not allow the "The WiiU is a failure because Nintendo can't get third parties, so nobody is buying it and so third parties can't be bothered putting their games on it". It's got to the point where people pretty much regard that statement as utterly immutable truth and feel Nintendo have already failed, when in reality Nintendo can probably get away with doing this anyway. That's because there are plenty of people who do just buy their consoles for their software and will probably pick it up once something they want comes out (3D Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Brothers and Zelda come to mind for me). For me that won't be enough anymore, I need the option of buying 3rd party games to fill in the blanks between major releases and not just rely on Nintendos own nebulous release schedule. I am not going to buy any argument that goes, well get an expensive X secondary console and a WiiU. A gaming PC, a nextbox or PS4 will give me plenty of games to play on a regular basis or have backcatalogs of stuff I already don't own to fill in gaps. For those of you who really like Nintendo games, it's an obvious solution but for others who might not be as committed, that's a hard argument to swallow for a console that may see use only every few months (as what happened to my Wii).
For me it's no longer enough and given the current sales of the WiiU (which are dismal) it's probably not enough for many others as well. It's why I chose, albeit at the time without the knowledge this third party effect would happen, not to buy a WiiU last year and I am thankful for that: I would have been feeling very disappointed right now personally. As opposed to just being disappointed to see Nintendo content to just allow all the narrative around their console completely abandon them. The fact people are confused it was a new console, third parties abandoning them and their inability to really sell the tablet controlls functions effectively. It's an incredible shame to the potential of the system to let third parties basically run away with a narrative of "Nintendo's system isn't worth porting to because X" where "X" is some completely inane reason. Personally I have much more respect for the Avalanche Studios guys, who basically just straight up said "We aren't making games for it because it hasn't sold". That's at least honest, but is again adding to that self-perpetuating prophecy that the console isn't selling because of no games and it isn't getting games because it isn't selling.
There are definitely features on the WiiU that intrigue me, even though I am unsure how much I would use them overall like off-screen play, but they aren't trying to sell people on buying the system. The big problems they are having with third parties are a big part of that, so it's not an insignificant or simply ignorable problem. Saying "Just get a good PC for decent 360/PS3 games and a WiiU for Nintendo" is not a good argument to sell people on the console. People who really can't live without Nintendo games already own it.
*Full disclaimer, I felt Rayman Origins was the best 2D platformer I had played in years.
Holy fuck how long did it take you to write that.
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Meanwhile I'm up to a grand total of 3 360 games and 4 PS3 games. Different strokes for different folks.
The Wii U ain't no Wii though when it comes to games being released, that's for sure. Retail releases will be down across the board because of rising prices and consolidation but the Wii U's lack of current gen ports is embarrassing. Makes sense though; they did an awful job convincing publishers (with a sack of money and other considerations) to get these ports out and running. That they haven't even shored things up out east is particularly terrifying.
Should I expect to budget for extra stuff, like a controller?
What games are must haves nowadays? I'm definitely grabbing MH3U, probably via the eShop. Anything else a must have?
There is no SD Card, just hard drive space. I'd personally get the basic, buy a decent sized external drive, and then pick up Lego City, MAYBE ZombiU and MH3U. To start.
You don't need another controller right now.
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But even if the third parties never quite get back on board, I can honestly say I'm pretty happy with this thing. And I'm looking forward to the rest of this year's slate, whatever that may be.
EDIT: And yes, please buy Lego City.
I hope that we'll eventually be able to install games whole like you can on the 360.
So even if Nintendo manages to convince third parties to change their tune, I'm still not buying the games on Wii U unless I can't get it anywhere else. That's a problem.
Let me just hit one of those icons on the map screen beneath me, and it's got the waypoint to it in the game
Never have to hit select
It would be beautiful
I was torn on that too. I only did so for my 3DS games, since I like the idea of carrying multiple carts with me on the bus. Not sure I like the idea as much for actual consoles.
... But then again, I've been to 3 stores and exactly 0 of them have had Monster Hunter 3U in stock ...
No controller needed? Hm, not even a Wiimote/Nunchuck or a Wii U Pro controller? Not sure how well the tablet works for MH3U / Lego City.
I dunno, I'm not trying to bag on any companies. If they don't port, they don't port, but sometimes the reasons they give baffle me a little.