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[Mechwarrior Online] {Strat. Discussion} Sweep the Leg! Do you have a problem with that?

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  • KusmerogluKusmeroglu Consumer Glue (aka Petra) Registered User regular
    f3rret wrote: »
    And now I know, thanks!

    So, do we want to start talking about team compositions and mech roles? Off the top of my head, I'm thinking:

    Anvil: 3 Assault mechs, slow speed is fine. At least 1 D-DC for ECM, lots of firepower and armour, probably want AMS too. These guys just trudge toward the enemy, and kill things.

    Hammer: 3 faster medium/heavy mechs, say 80km/h minimum. These are our flankers, they can cover the Anvil, attack from behind, or go cap a nearby point.

    Tongs: 2 lights, preferably with ECM. These guys scout, spot targets, jam LRMboats, and cap points.

    Suggestions?

    LRM support can be situational, but I like at least one LRM boat on the team. Guided missiles are good for helping lights take care of enemy lights and forcing the other team to stick to cover.

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  • CapsaicinCapsaicin I asked my 2 y/o son to draw a pic of my German mom, and thats what we got. Registered User regular
    Kusmeroglu wrote: »
    @Capsaicin, you should copy paste your walls o text here from the various other places.

    I gotta find that shit first but thanks for the shout-out.

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  • CapsaicinCapsaicin I asked my 2 y/o son to draw a pic of my German mom, and thats what we got. Registered User regular
    Found it!
    So I was recently thinking about group makeups and how I've been playing. This may be a bit too SRSBIZ for some of you... sorry.

    Most of the time we play, we usually have at least one central fatboy (Atlas, Stalker, etc) and the rest of the mechs support it. I think this is a good tactic as a central D-DC will provide ECM and massive damage. Where I think I've been playing wrong, is that I've been choosing the wrong speed mech to complement the Atlas.

    I've recently been playing Dragons. They are typically the fastest mech of the heavy and assault classes (Awesome can sometimes give them a run for their money) but when paired with slower mechs (Atlae, Cataphracts, Stalkers, and Catapults), they become a problem. Their excess (comparatively) speed allows them to run off and chase other mechs. This is bad as staying with the D-DC (or central leader) is key to survival.

    I find this is where I fail the most. I get too aggressive and run off only to get picked to pieces. I'm sure I could throttle this back by playing smarter and I definitely need to. Dragons don't pack enough punch or armor to survive like that.

    With all that behind me, I've come up with combat roles and mechs that typically fit in them. Our 4 and 8 man groups could (should) choose group roles so that our group has better synergy.

    Force Recon - These are the scouts and fast cappers. They can also use their speed to harass the enemy or to support other groups in combat that are in dire need. Speeds should be in the low to mid 100s. Mechs that are typically in this group are: Commandos, Spiders, Jenners, Ravens, and Cicadas with the occational Sprinturion or Speedbucket. Speed is their number one trait.

    Quick Reaction Force - These mechs combine decent firepower, maneuverability, and survivability. Their role is to (as a single group) flank and harass enemy groups. They can use their good speeds to get to cap points quicker than the enemy or to support firefights or scout caps acting as a force multiplier. Speed should be in the 80-100 range. Typical mechs found in this role are: Centurions, Trebuchets, Dragons, and Awesomes with the occasional heavily loaded Cicada.

    Main Strike Force - This group is the main fighting and damage dealing force. Their main goal is to remove enemy mechs from the battlefield as efficiently as possible. They are the slowest but have the best firepower and/or armor. Speed is typically in the 50-70 range. They usually trundle into combat after the other faster groups but will do the most damage. Focusing fire is imperative as you want to take down enemy mechs one by one. Typical mechs in this group are: Atlas, Stalker (SRM builds), Cataphract, Catapult (SRM or K2 builds), Hunchback or any build that puts armor and firepower over speed.

    Fire Support - This group simply hangs back and provides either direct or indirect support to the Main Strike Force (MSF). They multiply the damage of the MSF by raining in LRMs or extreme range weapons. Mechs suited for this role are: Stalker (LRM builds), Catapult (LRM builds), Dragon (AC2s), Trebuchet (LRM), or the upcoming Jagermech; but anything with good range and a player with good accuracy will work.

    When playing either a 4 or 8 man, we should consider groups like this.

    It typically doesn't work to have a 4 man that mixes role types. Having a Cataphract teamed up with 3 of the Force Recon type (much faster) will only leave the Cataphract by itself and easily killed (because pubs can't be trusted to use their noodles). When playing with 4, I'd suggest picking one of the first three types as they work well with 4 people. You typically don't need more than 1-2 Fire Support drivers so that'd only split your 4 man in half (though 2 LRM and 2 Scouts could work well).

    For 8 mans, we'd probably want to focus on building up a good MSF and then sprinkling in supporting roles. 4 mechs for the MSF, 1-2 Supports, 1-2 scouts, or (depending on map which is impossible in MWO's current itteration), so with a QRF as the main group or to support a MSF.

    This sound okay? Make sense? Thoughts and comments?

    (sorry for the wall of text, but I'm bored at work and realized that I'm 1 month ahead of my current work task so I've been quite bored)

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  • CapsaicinCapsaicin I asked my 2 y/o son to draw a pic of my German mom, and thats what we got. Registered User regular
    Found this tid bit posted 2-3 days after regarding 8-mans.
    I may have not been around long, but from what I've seen, last night was the best set of 8 mans we've had. Typically playing 8-man means we get stomped repeatedly. I'd say on average we win 25% of our matches.

    Last night we probably won 50% of not more. Here are a couple lessons learned from playing till 4am.

    - There seem to be two enemy tactics 1) Stand and fight 2) Base race
    - There is only one tactic that I've seen so far that can counter the above two without giving too much away. That is to hang back and let them come to you (this only really works on Assault). Have 2 lights flank around the edges to scout and prepare to back cap it things get overwhelming. This allows you to position properly and have the advantage when the shooting starts.
    - Min-max groups are only playing the game that PGI has given us. If you see a lot of Ravens and SRMs, its because they work (too) well. This is the nature of the current game. PGI is fixing the SRM come April 2, but until then, if we want to win, we need to run what winning teams run.
    - A good 8 man drop that worked well for us was: 2 lights (ECM), 1 LRM, 2 Dragons (mobile response), rest assaults and heavies. The lights did their scouting and back capping. The LRM provided killer fire support, the Dragons played a bit behind the main force, supported what they could at range, but were able to run back to base to prevent back capping. The rest were the main tip of the spear and provided most of the killing power.
    - Target calling was pretty good. When it got hectic (Centurion rush), we broke down. Most other times we focuses just fine.
    - The only real tactical map is Alpine (maybe Caustic too). The rest usually turn into mass brawls.
    - The QQing needs to stop about certain mechs, loadouts, builds, other teams, etc (i think we ALL are guilty of this every now and again). When we lose, we lose to a superior team. They may be running builds or mechs that we don't accept, but the game makes certain things have advantages over others. If we purposely choose not to run them, we are limiting ourselves. We can only play the game that PGI has given us. We cannot play the game that we think is canonically proper. (As much as I hate Ravens, we need to utilize them)
    - Despite some horrible matches, I had much more fun than any other time playing 8-man.

    Questions:

    - Did having a central "commander" help at all?
    - Did you think we were more successful?
    - Did you have more fun?
    - Did you think that our drop spec was good?
    - Any suggestions to win (tactics on maps, etc...)?

    *toot-toot*

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    kaliyama
  • shdwcastershdwcaster South DakotaRegistered User regular
    At the risk of shameless self promotion, I did a bit of data-mining on my stats in the other MW:O thread.

    It's worth bringing up that judicious use of your stats, and keeping a few notes, can make it a lot easier to evaluate major build changes using empirical data, rather than subjective "Well this feels like it's working better" data.

    Kusmeroglu
  • KusmerogluKusmeroglu Consumer Glue (aka Petra) Registered User regular
    @Capsaicin said it above, but I think tonight was proof that we can't play 4 mans with different roles. We had two guys LRMing, two of us moved up to assaults because we kept dropping with pubbies that can't keep together against teams that crazy out weighed us. @AvalonGuard and I executed the perfect flank in 2 reapers. The LRMers on our team were dealing with snipers, as they should have been, and all the pubbies ignored completely what was going on and we all died. When you have only 4 people, you have to be a lance, or else you are just pubbing with people to chat with.

    We tried a 2 LRM/2 Light combo, but that didn't work well either. I think LRM mechs can only really work in a 4 mans in the trebuchet kind of way.. On the outskirts of things and with enough direct fire power to support the rest of your lance.

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    AvalonGuardCapsaicin
  • WolveSightWolveSight Registered User regular
    well, lrms got their damage and splash pretty much destroyed tonight as well. They aren't going to be anywhere near as effective as they have been for the past couple of weeks. Thus, dedicating 2 mechs for missile fire support is probably a bit much anyways.

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  • AvalonGuardAvalonGuard Registered User regular
    Basically what I have learned over the course of time is that trying to fill specialist roles in a 4-man is not a good idea. Bring lots of guns and instead of waiting for your pubs to show up to the fight, be the fight. Specialists are more force-multipliers for your guns.

    GethKusmerogluCapsaicin
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Really, really don't think dedicated LRM boats are a good idea at all now that LRMs are reasonable. Probably shouldn't be any more than 3-4 LRM15 launchers on a team, 2 at most on any one mech, and none of them ever on Atlases, then a TAG or two somewhere. And even then, those LRM mechs need to be able to fend for themselves when fighting gets close; a pair of MLASes just doesn't cut it. LRMs are still great for nailing troublesome lights and keeping people from fighting in the open, but they aren't worth it for serious combat capacity; any number of combinations of elements can keep them from being effective, so it's enormously better to have 3 good direct-fire mechs with some LRM capacity than 2 LRM-heavy mechs that can't accomplish much of anything without the LRMs hitting.

  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    Really, really don't think dedicated LRM boats are a good idea at all now that LRMs are reasonable. Probably shouldn't be any more than 3-4 LRM15 launchers on a team, 2 at most on any one mech, and none of them ever on Atlases, then a TAG or two somewhere. And even then, those LRM mechs need to be able to fend for themselves when fighting gets close; a pair of MLASes just doesn't cut it. LRMs are still great for nailing troublesome lights and keeping people from fighting in the open, but they aren't worth it for serious combat capacity; any number of combinations of elements can keep them from being effective, so it's enormously better to have 3 good direct-fire mechs with some LRM capacity than 2 LRM-heavy mechs that can't accomplish much of anything without the LRMs hitting.

    The best LRM mech I've ever slapped together is basically just a modded stock C1. 4 MLAS and Two LRM15s is just about perfect for a "dedicated" fire support mech. LRMs are good for herding people around, softening people up as you close, and general fire support but with the way these maps are, loading up on LRMs is just dumb.

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  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Yeah, that's about the best LRM setup I see for Cats. If somebody could find three extra tons, they could even mount 3xMPLAS and a TAG without a significant loss of direct-fire ability (18 damage instead of 20, but with a higher fire rate) and counter ECM as well.

    Stalkers and Awesomes also both make for acceptable LRM mechs if they limit themselves to only one or two big launchers, maybe even just one. Much more than that and they start losing out on far more valuable direct-fire capacity; another LL is much more beneficial than another LRM15 and two LLs are vastly better than an LRM20 when things get close and dangerous. Atlases with LRMs are summarily awful and I hate them. They are currently the kings of brawling, and mounting even one LRM15 or LRM20 on their is an enormous waste of killing power. Far, far better off mounting more SRM launchers and using the saved weight to commit to LLs or PPCs, if you need the range. Not to mention that Atlases mounted with LRMs are supremely tempted to hang back and lob those LRMs, which means they aren't up front soaking the kind of damage that would kill friendlies they shouldn't want to lose. Every time I see an Atlas standing at the back of the group to fire LRMs, I want to kick the mech over and jump up and down on its head until the pilot gets the idea.

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  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    edited March 2013
    only one or two big launchers, maybe even just one.

    That right there is key to basically every LRM mech though. My hard and fast rule is ever ever ever stack more than the combined value of two LRM15s. Anything more than that is just a waste and starts causing massive problems due to the variable nature of the random maps and the way matches can flow. Sometimes your LRMs can do some solid work but then other times the match is a brawl under heavy cover and all your damage potential is suddenly wasted (and this is completely taking ECM out of the equation which just fucks everything). The problem is that pubbies are too fucking stupid to figure that out so the 1/4 times they get a good match that lets them go nuts they think that it's because they're awesome and their build is good.
    Every time I see an Atlas standing at the back of the group to fire LRMs, I want to kick the mech over and jump up and down on its head until the pilot gets the idea.
    It almost makes me wish we could hijack mechs Mechassault style just so that we could teabag the pilot and leave a bag of burning dog shit in the cockpit of their Atlas.

    TOGSolid on
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    KusmerogluKashaar
  • HydroSqueegeeHydroSqueegee ULTRACAT!!!™®© Registered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    Really, really don't think dedicated LRM boats are a good idea at all now that LRMs are reasonable. Probably shouldn't be any more than 3-4 LRM15 launchers on a team, 2 at most on any one mech, and none of them ever on Atlases, then a TAG or two somewhere. And even then, those LRM mechs need to be able to fend for themselves when fighting gets close; a pair of MLASes just doesn't cut it. LRMs are still great for nailing troublesome lights and keeping people from fighting in the open, but they aren't worth it for serious combat capacity; any number of combinations of elements can keep them from being effective, so it's enormously better to have 3 good direct-fire mechs with some LRM capacity than 2 LRM-heavy mechs that can't accomplish much of anything without the LRMs hitting.

    The best LRM mech I've ever slapped together is basically just a modded stock C1. 4 MLAS and Two LRM15s is just about perfect for a "dedicated" fire support mech. LRMs are good for herding people around, softening people up as you close, and general fire support but with the way these maps are, loading up on LRMs is just dumb.

    ive discovered this is pretty much the perfect fire.support mech too. go down to 3 ML and toss a tag in its place and you have a mobile lrm beast.
    the C4 with 2LRM15s, 2 streaks a ML and a tag is almost as good.

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  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    TOGSolid wrote: »
    Really, really don't think dedicated LRM boats are a good idea at all now that LRMs are reasonable. Probably shouldn't be any more than 3-4 LRM15 launchers on a team, 2 at most on any one mech, and none of them ever on Atlases, then a TAG or two somewhere. And even then, those LRM mechs need to be able to fend for themselves when fighting gets close; a pair of MLASes just doesn't cut it. LRMs are still great for nailing troublesome lights and keeping people from fighting in the open, but they aren't worth it for serious combat capacity; any number of combinations of elements can keep them from being effective, so it's enormously better to have 3 good direct-fire mechs with some LRM capacity than 2 LRM-heavy mechs that can't accomplish much of anything without the LRMs hitting.

    The best LRM mech I've ever slapped together is basically just a modded stock C1. 4 MLAS and Two LRM15s is just about perfect for a "dedicated" fire support mech. LRMs are good for herding people around, softening people up as you close, and general fire support but with the way these maps are, loading up on LRMs is just dumb.

    ive discovered this is pretty much the perfect fire.support mech too. go down to 3 ML and toss a tag in its place and you have a mobile lrm beast.
    the C4 with 2LRM15s, 2 streaks a ML and a tag is almost as good.

    Yeah, that would be a good setup as well.

    Something I've started doing last night is to make a much more proactive effort about keeping us mobile and avoiding the milling around that tends to happen. It's something that happens to a lot of people and all of us are guilty of it. Basically, contact is made with the enemy and instead of either establishing a firing position or relocating, people tend to keep tentatively poking their heads out only to take lots of little ticks of damage. While some builds are ok to constantly peek out in (hell, the jump sniping 3D is built to do this as a full time job), for most everyone else it's just a bad idea. There's no reason that your 4SP should ever be poking its head out to take a look during a long range fight, for instance. Yet, it happens all the time. It costs us matches, it costs people damage they shouldn't be taking, and is just kind of bad to do.

    So how do we fix this? Well, it's as easy as saying "fuck it, let's go a different way." If the enemy has a good fire base from the water in Forest Colony, for instance. Don't just stand there near the Theta location getting plinked at. Just disengage fully and go into the tunnel. Bam, their fire position is now fucked and we can just march our merry asses up to their base to cap there in terrain with better cover and a better firing line so we can start plinking at them. At no point do we ever want to fight on their terms. If they're in the water on River City marching to lower city and they have a firing advantage on us, then don't try engaging them out there by yourself. Instead, let's just lure them back into the city where we can nullify their coordinated fire. It's simple to do and yet once the shooting starts people tend to get rooted into that one area wanting to try and hold the line when it's usually not advantageous to do so. Of course, there are situations where we do just want to park our asses and hold the fort, but usually they'll be blatantly obvious. The rest of the time we'll just want to fade out and strike from somewhere else.

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    CampyKusmerogluf3rretTheCanManKashaarAvalonGuardCapsaicinkaliyama
  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    I'm going to try getting on the Dragon leaderboard this weekend. We'll see how it goes!

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    Kashaar
  • f3rretf3rret Registered User regular
    I think I'm the 4SP you were talking about. I took a bunch of shots to the cockpit doing that last night, thinking I was sneaky.

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  • DaMoonRulzDaMoonRulz Mare ImbriumRegistered User regular
    Oh goddamnit, having two threads for MWO is kinda confusing

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  • TheCanManTheCanMan GT: Gasman122009 JerseyRegistered User regular
    The only time I play peek-a-boo is if we're setup at a location waiting for the enemy to show up, or I have big damage weapons (AC20/Gauss/PPC). If I can pop around a corner and dump 30 or 40 points of pin-point damage, I don't see a problem with that. Unless the other team is doing the same thing and doing it better than us. Then it's time to rethink and relocate.

  • TOGSolidTOGSolid Drunk sailor Seattle, WashingtonRegistered User regular
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    The only time I play peek-a-boo is if we're setup at a location waiting for the enemy to show up, or I have big damage weapons (AC20/Gauss/PPC). If I can pop around a corner and dump 30 or 40 points of pin-point damage, I don't see a problem with that. Unless the other team is doing the same thing and doing it better than us. Then it's time to rethink and relocate.
    Yeah. In that case we have the firing advantage if you're able to more or less safely pop out and unload. Basically it's a matter of who got entrenched first. If they're walking up to us then we're free to unload. If we're walking into their trap then we just need to turn around and GTFO.

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  • AvalonGuardAvalonGuard Registered User regular
    TOG, get out of my head.

    I've been considering setting my CTF-3D up with STD engine basically for that kind of purpose. A sort of tank that isn't slow enough to get caught in the open, but with armor and punch to get stuff done. Almost all of my builds use XLs and I am slowly warming to the fact that a mech with an XL sometimes doesn't make for a good frontline mech, even with the extra firepower.

  • KusmerogluKusmeroglu Consumer Glue (aka Petra) Registered User regular
    So, I've been trying to figure out how we can have serious business time without excluding peeps. What if we commandeer one of the lobbies, pick a team composition that we like ( for 4 mans, probably a Main Strike Force/Anvil ), and then put in our vent comment: "Serious Business: Need 1 brawler assaults/ 1 brawler heavy" or something like that? People are free to join, shouldn't be hurt by the suggestion that they play a specific role/mech, and would know what they're getting into.

    Maybe also keep track of a queue for serious business team, if we have an 8 man and people are playing in 4 mans while they wait to get into the 8man, so they don't get passed by someone who happened to drop into the lobby when someone else dropped out.

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    m!ttensWolveSightKashaarAvalonGuardf3rret
  • m!ttensm!ttens he/himRegistered User regular
    Hey thread, stop being quiet! I stole @Capsaicin's post from the main thread and stuck it in the OP.

    What that means for you is that you should post some builds here and discuss the pros and cons of the build, its new guy friendliness, heat issues, intended role, best paint scheme (no, not really), strategies suggested/required for use, etc.

    What that means for the rest of us is to tell the submitter what they did and did not do correctly with the build, offer suggestions for improvement and generally affirm that said build is a good one.

    What that means for me is to try to collate builds and keep the OP up to date.

  • CapsaicinCapsaicin I asked my 2 y/o son to draw a pic of my German mom, and thats what we got. Registered User regular
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Hey thread, stop being quiet! I stole @Capsaicin's post from the main thread and stuck it in the OP.

    What that means for you is that you should post some builds here and discuss the pros and cons of the build, its new guy friendliness, heat issues, intended role, best paint scheme (no, not really), strategies suggested/required for use, etc.

    What that means for the rest of us is to tell the submitter what they did and did not do correctly with the build, offer suggestions for improvement and generally affirm that said build is a good one.

    What that means for me is to try to collate builds and keep the OP up to date.

    I recently updated my post so you might want to grab a new one.

    I tried to recreate some of our favorite builds from memory so some are probably broken.

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  • CapsaicinCapsaicin I asked my 2 y/o son to draw a pic of my German mom, and thats what we got. Registered User regular
    Please add this to the OP.

    Ghettoblaster [HBK-4P]: 2xMPLS, 6xMLAS, 260STD, DHS, Endo

    This is a general laser support Hunchback. Keep with the heavier mechs, focus fire, and Ghettoblast(tm) them to bits!

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  • KusmerogluKusmeroglu Consumer Glue (aka Petra) Registered User regular
    We can probably grab the non obviously niche specialized builds from the MWO Builds doc. I actually think the Kablamaphract could make the list. Playing it all weekend has given me a new appreciation for getting headshots with shotguns. SPACE SHOTGUNS right in your cockpit. I would load rock salt in there if I could, just to make the shame sting more. Damn it to hell, why am I not playing this right now.

    LBX's are also kinda easy mode for people that have trouble making things like AC10's and 20's effective. Plus, if you do it just right, you can just hit both ears on a Catapult with your 2 LBXs at once. Yay for convergence time.

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    TheCanMan
  • TheCanManTheCanMan GT: Gasman122009 JerseyRegistered User regular
    edited March 2013
    I'll throw up my favorite mech that I've run so far.

    [CTF-2X]: 2xSRM6, 2xMPLS, AC/20, 280STD, DHS, Endo

    Typically, you'll see this build run with 3xMLs instead of the 2xMPLs. But the single laser in the arm makes your weapon groupings all wonky. You only lose 3dmg from your alpha, but the quicker beam duration is a better match for the alpha and the decreased range doesn't matter because it matches up pretty well with the SRMs.

    This build is all about getting up in someone's face and hitting alpha until they kersplode.

    I haven't run it since the SRM nerf. But the new "lock arms to torso" should make the screwy arm SRM aiming easier.

    TheCanMan on
  • CapsaicinCapsaicin I asked my 2 y/o son to draw a pic of my German mom, and thats what we got. Registered User regular
    Kusmeroglu wrote: »
    We can probably grab the non obviously niche specialized builds from the MWO Builds doc. I actually think the Kablamaphract could make the list. Playing it all weekend has given me a new appreciation for getting headshots with shotguns. SPACE SHOTGUNS right in your cockpit. I would load rock salt in there if I could, just to make the shame sting more. Damn it to hell, why am I not playing this right now.

    LBX's are also kinda easy mode for people that have trouble making things like AC10's and 20's effective. Plus, if you do it just right, you can just hit both ears on a Catapult with your 2 LBXs at once. Yay for convergence time.

    I added a version of the Kablamaphract to the deprecated original (my) version in the other thread. As well as a few Catapult builds. Mittens needs to KEEP UP! :p

    And I think you've more than proven that the Kablamaphract (although hilarious and niche) is a viable build. In fact it;s probably the ONLY way I've seen anyone use the LBX-10s effectively.

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  • CapsaicinCapsaicin I asked my 2 y/o son to draw a pic of my German mom, and thats what we got. Registered User regular
    Some others to consider


    Cata(pew)lt K2 [CPLT-K2]: 4xLLAS, 2xMG, AMS, 300XL, DHS, Endo
    (this needs Kashar's blessing)
    A good all-purpose K2. I usually have the LLas in two pairs to help manage heat. MGs for good measure and that Extra Sprinkle of Dakka(tm).

    Fritz [JM6-S]: 2xAC/10, AMS, 4xMLAS, 300XL, DHS, Endo
    My favorite all-round Jagermech. It works well at medium ranges and the backup weapons are nice. Runs a tiny bit hot but not bad. The AC/10s provide a decent punch but are usable at Alpine ranges. 5T ammo is a minimum as you should be hanging back and lobbing in shells.

    Trollmeister [JM6-DD]: 6xMG, AMS, 2xLPLS, 300STD
    Throttle up, trigger down, run around like a raped ape.

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  • KusmerogluKusmeroglu Consumer Glue (aka Petra) Registered User regular
    One LBX is totally not enough. Sometimes, I wonder what would happen if you put me in a mech with guns that are actually smart damage/weight wise. And didn't require super duper aiming skills. Oh, that doesn't exist now that they nerfed SRMs. :(

    I have been on the receiving end of LBX fire at 400-500ish meters, and it's really pretty laughable. This makes me sad. Especially because I shot at a lot of people at long range with my LBX's this weekend, and now that I know what it feels like, I wish I could take all those shots back.

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  • CapsaicinCapsaicin I asked my 2 y/o son to draw a pic of my German mom, and thats what we got. Registered User regular
    The LBX should be thought of as a much heavier, but faster firing and more accurate LRM-10.

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  • m!ttensm!ttens he/himRegistered User regular
    Regarding the HBK-4P (so many different builds people have for this guy):

    The Tiniest Deathstar [HBK-4P]: 2xLLAS, 7xSLAS, 255XL, DHS
    The Tiniest Deathstar shoots lots of little red pewpews from the lunchbox, has a fast recycle time and is very forgiving on heat. I personally run an XL260 but put the 255 in the build because it's a more common purchase. Role is to be mobile fire support for the brawlers. Stick near them because the bulk of your firepower is short range, but you can poke at things closing on you with the LLAS. It also works pretty well for running back and dealing with back cappers, since it has decent speed and you can switch to chain fire on the lights to keep a steady stream of red death on them.

    Mobile PPC Platform [HBK-4P]: 2xMLAS, 2xPPC, 255XL, DHS
    The Mobile PPC Platform is based off of @CycloneRanger's build (I think I removed the head laser from mine, but otherwise it's basically the same). Again, the speed is to get into a good firing position and keep it. The mech is designed to hold back from main brawl and provide direct fire support. Works well teaming up with a similar direct fire support mech, since nothing can withstand that many PPCs for very long. MLAS helps if a light flanks you or closes the gap too quickly. I've also tried this with ERPPCs for better brawling capability (though you should avoid brawling if at all possible) but the heat can be a bit harder to manage. If you have the spare equipment or extra cash to spend, try both and see which you like better.

    You may notice the heavily front-loaded armor on the right torso; that's because most damage comes from the front, people always aim for it, and the hit-box for the entire hunch is "front" armor except the panel section on the back (i.e. hitting the hunch from the side will do front damage).

  • m!ttensm!ttens he/himRegistered User regular
    Some time this evening, I'll work on combining stuff from the builds doc people submitted earlier with the ones people put in here. Feel free to critque the builds you see here. Hopefully everyone is grown up enough not to get their feelings hurt.

  • AvalonGuardAvalonGuard Registered User regular
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    I'll throw up my favorite mech that I've run so far.

    [CTF-2X]: 2xSRM6, 2xMPLS, AC/20, 280STD, DHS, Endo

    Typically, you'll see this build run with 3xMLs instead of the 2xMPLs. But the single laser in the arm makes your weapon groupings all wonky. You only lose 3dmg from your alpha, but the quicker beam duration is a better match for the alpha and the decreased range doesn't matter because it matches up pretty well with the SRMs.

    This build is all about getting up in someone's face and hitting alpha until they kersplode.

    I haven't run it since the SRM nerf. But the new "lock arms to torso" should make the screwy arm SRM aiming easier.

    Since we are serious businessing? Your build would be much better served with the triple MLAS with an extra heat sink. You would have extra range that would sync up with the rest of your weaponry.

    Don't get me wrong, MPLas have their place, but you lose potential in this case by not filling up the hard points.

  • CycloneRangerCycloneRanger Registered User regular
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Regarding the HBK-4P (so many different builds people have for this guy):

    The Tiniest Deathstar [HBK-4P]: 2xLLAS, 7xSLAS, 255XL, DHS
    The Tiniest Deathstar shoots lots of little red pewpews from the lunchbox, has a fast recycle time and is very forgiving on heat. I personally run an XL260 but put the 255 in the build because it's a more common purchase. Role is to be mobile fire support for the brawlers. Stick near them because the bulk of your firepower is short range, but you can poke at things closing on you with the LLAS. It also works pretty well for running back and dealing with back cappers, since it has decent speed and you can switch to chain fire on the lights to keep a steady stream of red death on them.

    Mobile PPC Platform [HBK-4P]: 2xMLAS, 2xPPC, 255XL, DHS
    The Mobile PPC Platform is based off of @CycloneRanger's build (I think I removed the head laser from mine, but otherwise it's basically the same). Again, the speed is to get into a good firing position and keep it. The mech is designed to hold back from main brawl and provide direct fire support. Works well teaming up with a similar direct fire support mech, since nothing can withstand that many PPCs for very long. MLAS helps if a light flanks you or closes the gap too quickly. I've also tried this with ERPPCs for better brawling capability (though you should avoid brawling if at all possible) but the heat can be a bit harder to manage. If you have the spare equipment or extra cash to spend, try both and see which you like better.

    You may notice the heavily front-loaded armor on the right torso; that's because most damage comes from the front, people always aim for it, and the hit-box for the entire hunch is "front" armor except the panel section on the back (i.e. hitting the hunch from the side will do front damage).
    I never used a head laser (it's one fewer heatsink), so the PPC Hunch you've built is identical to mine and I can vouch for its effectiveness. It works very well if you're into a fast skirmishing/sniping mode of warfare. I tried a version with ERPPCs (and in that case I dropped the 2xMLAS for two more heatsinks), but the tradeoffs didn't end up being worthwhile for me.


    I'll try to post some AWS builds tonight; I have a lot of experience driving those.

  • TheCanManTheCanMan GT: Gasman122009 JerseyRegistered User regular
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    I'll throw up my favorite mech that I've run so far.

    [CTF-2X]: 2xSRM6, 2xMPLS, AC/20, 280STD, DHS, Endo

    Typically, you'll see this build run with 3xMLs instead of the 2xMPLs. But the single laser in the arm makes your weapon groupings all wonky. You only lose 3dmg from your alpha, but the quicker beam duration is a better match for the alpha and the decreased range doesn't matter because it matches up pretty well with the SRMs.

    This build is all about getting up in someone's face and hitting alpha until they kersplode.

    I haven't run it since the SRM nerf. But the new "lock arms to torso" should make the screwy arm SRM aiming easier.

    Since we are serious businessing? Your build would be much better served with the triple MLAS with an extra heat sink. You would have extra range that would sync up with the rest of your weaponry.

    Don't get me wrong, MPLas have their place, but you lose potential in this case by not filling up the hard points.

    The critique is appreciated. Here's my thinking.

    I waste a hardpoint but gain a shield arm. With the new "lock arms to torso", I might have to revisit the 3MLs. But prior to that, I loathed trying to sync 2 torso MLs with the single arm ML. The arm ML just ended up being ignored all the time, so it was just wasted weight.

    And as far as range goes, the choice is either syncing up the MLs with the AC20 or the MPLs with the SRMs. Personally, I think it makes more sense to sync the short beam duration MPLs with the SRMs as opposed to the long beam duration MLs with the AC20. The latter has you having to lead your target to land the ballistic then bring the torso back in line with the arms to hold on target for the duration of the MLs. That just never felt natural to me.

  • AvalonGuardAvalonGuard Registered User regular
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    TheCanMan wrote: »
    I'll throw up my favorite mech that I've run so far.

    [CTF-2X]: 2xSRM6, 2xMPLS, AC/20, 280STD, DHS, Endo

    Typically, you'll see this build run with 3xMLs instead of the 2xMPLs. But the single laser in the arm makes your weapon groupings all wonky. You only lose 3dmg from your alpha, but the quicker beam duration is a better match for the alpha and the decreased range doesn't matter because it matches up pretty well with the SRMs.

    This build is all about getting up in someone's face and hitting alpha until they kersplode.

    I haven't run it since the SRM nerf. But the new "lock arms to torso" should make the screwy arm SRM aiming easier.

    Since we are serious businessing? Your build would be much better served with the triple MLAS with an extra heat sink. You would have extra range that would sync up with the rest of your weaponry.

    Don't get me wrong, MPLas have their place, but you lose potential in this case by not filling up the hard points.

    The critique is appreciated. Here's my thinking.

    I waste a hardpoint but gain a shield arm. With the new "lock arms to torso", I might have to revisit the 3MLs. But prior to that, I loathed trying to sync 2 torso MLs with the single arm ML. The arm ML just ended up being ignored all the time, so it was just wasted weight.

    And as far as range goes, the choice is either syncing up the MLs with the AC20 or the MPLs with the SRMs. Personally, I think it makes more sense to sync the short beam duration MPLs with the SRMs as opposed to the long beam duration MLs with the AC20. The latter has you having to lead your target to land the ballistic then bring the torso back in line with the arms to hold on target for the duration of the MLs. That just never felt natural to me.

    SRMs, AC20s, and MLas all share the same optimal range at 270m.

  • Kaboodles_The_AssassinKaboodles_The_Assassin Kill the meat. Save the metal.Registered User regular
    m!ttens wrote: »
    Mobile PPC Platform [HBK-4P]: 2xMLAS, 2xPPC, 255XL, DHS
    The Mobile PPC Platform is based off of @CycloneRanger's build (I think I removed the head laser from mine, but otherwise it's basically the same). Again, the speed is to get into a good firing position and keep it. The mech is designed to hold back from main brawl and provide direct fire support. Works well teaming up with a similar direct fire support mech, since nothing can withstand that many PPCs for very long. MLAS helps if a light flanks you or closes the gap too quickly. I've also tried this with ERPPCs for better brawling capability (though you should avoid brawling if at all possible) but the heat can be a bit harder to manage. If you have the spare equipment or extra cash to spend, try both and see which you like better.

    I've found Cicadas to be an excellent platform for dual-PPC sniping. They're great for adding extra firepower to heavy slugfests, and can use their speed to find better firing angles and run off when they get the enemy's attention.
    Capsaicin wrote: »
    Some others to consider


    Cata(pew)lt K2 [CPLT-K2]: 4xLLAS, 2xMG, AMS, 300XL, DHS, Endo
    (this needs Kashar's blessing)
    A good all-purpose K2. I usually have the LLas in two pairs to help manage heat. MGs for good measure and that Extra Sprinkle of Dakka(tm).

    I usually eschew machine guns for a max-sized engine, but with the crit changes I just might try it out. The 315XL doesn't seem to add that much more speed to this build.

    sXXjb1B.png
    Kashaar
  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Agreed with Kaeb, but that K2 still works. The variant I'm using is more minmaxed, and eschews the MGs because they hardly matter when you can just as easily bring 36 Laser damage to bear on one location, blowing it up faster and at far longer range than the MGs could ever damage the internals. Scrapping the MGs lets you mount an extra heatsink or two, depending on engine, which gives you more longevity.

    The 300XL might be better for general use, since it's more applicable to other Mechs as well. I use a 315 simply because it's faster.

    Here's a Smurfy link: Quadapult

    Kashaar on
    Indie Dev Blog | Twitter | Steam
    Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.

    I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
  • AvalonGuardAvalonGuard Registered User regular
    Because of the Catapult's tonnage, the 300XL does not play well with endo steel; usually you end up running into crit space issues; if you like Catapults, the 315XL will get you the most performance out of your mech.

    Kashaar
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