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[Mechwarrior Online] {Strat. Discussion} Sweep the Leg! Do you have a problem with that?

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Posts

  • m!ttensm!ttens he/himRegistered User regular
    Capsaicin wrote: »
    Now if only there could be a decent build/role for the A1 or C4. Thats what keeping me from continuing with Catapults.


    Caveat: I cannot speak to the efficacy of this build because I have never ever piloted a catapult (except maybe a trial cat during closed beta), but here's an A1 that doesn't go on poor cuts of steak or load up on the cheese.

    Have a Nap... then fire Ze Missiles [CPLT-A1]: 2xSRM6, 2xLRM10, 2xSSRM, 260XL, DHS, Artemis

    I wonder how well it would work at being a fire support that can try to keep lights off its tail and/or try to hold its own if it gets caught up in the brawl.

    Here's a quick C4 build, basically the "Splat Jr."
    Not Semtex [CPLT-C4]: 4xSRM6, 2xMPLS, 315XL, DHS, Artemis, Endo

  • ApogeeApogee Lancks In Every Game Ever Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    grim sb wrote: »
    So, are we going to try and make Tuesday Oosik 8-mans a thing? I'm *totally* down with that. Assuming I can help get my kiddo in bed and settled around then.

    Totally loving my (relatively new) 4x LLAS Catapult K2. It hits the sweet spot for my playstyle.

    Tried it w/ Dual Gauss (never enough ammo) and several other builds, including Gorn's suggestiong of 2xPPC 2xERPPC (but it was a overheat MACHINE and I have poor trigger discipline)

    I'm afraid I'm either going to have to break down and purchase MC for more hangar slots*, or sell off an under-utilized mech (either my Hunch 4SP or a Dakka-Dragon 1N) so I can try out some other Catapult builds.

    (so far, I've occupied a questionable moral high-ground of not giving the company any money while it's still in Beta/breaking the game every patch w/ new and exciting bugs. Seems to hurt me more than PGI, since I'm stuck w/ 4 hangar slots and low income potential. Ah well.)

    Two words: Space Shotguns.

    Seriously, it's fun on a bun to drive around shotgunning lights (skeet!) and blasting away at heavies. The LBXes are so heat-efficient that it's just blam-blam all day.
    Capsaicin wrote: »
    Now if only there could be a decent build/role for the A1 or C4. Thats what keeping me from continuing with Catapults.

    This C1 is probably my favourite cata build, period. Fast, manuverable with the JJs, packs a mean punch to 500m+, and the SRMs give it a nice kick for close range encounters.

    Apogee on
    8R7BtLw.png
  • grim sbgrim sb Registered User regular
    Apogee,

    I ran a LBX build for a little bit - it was the first reincarnation of the K2 after I pulled the dual Gauss off it. My first couple of rounds with it were fantastic, then I just ... sucked.
    I never could get a feel for how/when to engage, and frequently got ripped apart when I did close-range work with it. I think it'd be a fun build if paired w/ another) but it felt a bit too niche for me.

    I'm not saying I won't try it again (grouped w/ Oosiks) but the 4X LLas build just feels right. I can reach out and tickle people long-range or cook 'em good up close. I generally try and stand off and chain-fire on exposed guys to harass them and keep the pressure on.

    The Dragon 1N is fun, but I think I'll sell him to finance another Catapult and work on eliting them.

  • W00dst0ckW00dst0ck Registered User regular
    Strategy suggestion (sorry if something similar has already been mentioned)

    When running 8mans, along with one main leader speaking, we may want to try having lance leaders. Depending on terrain and spacing, it can be difficult to have all 8 mechs firing on the same target. Breaking that up into 2 - 4mans should allow for easier called out maneuvers and firing lines.

    [Main Leader/Lance Leader 1] - "Lance 1 flank left, Lance 2 flank right"

    [Main Leader/Lance Leader 1] - "Lance 1 target Alpha"

    [Lance Leader 2] - "Lance 2 target Delta"

    Maintaining visual contact of your lancemates is key though especially when an ECM mech starts disrupting radar.

    This can all go to hell in a handbasket if/when your lance gets whittled down, but with 12mans coming soon, I think this will help if anything at the beginning of matches.

    If the main leader/lance leader dies, they can just spectate and still provide commands. Hopfeully no one is offended by it (you're dead, why are you telling me what to do???). I don't mind strategy recommendations from the "great beyond". This will be beneficial for me since I'm still getting used to distinguishing everyone's voices.

    I'm rather reluctant to volunteer as a leader since my "bloodlust" can cloud my decision making. I'm more than happy to be someone's minion.

    Kusmeroglu
  • KusmerogluKusmeroglu Consumer Glue (aka Petra) Registered User regular
    It's been discussed in vent several times, but it would be totally awesome to have a 9th person drop as a Commander only role, where they just spectate and put markers on the map. I would heart it so much. (as an added benefit, making recording our matches much more exciting)

    Definitely we should work on running as lances. Cause lance stuff is coming up soon, and more organized flanking ftw.

    x5jS9QJ.png
    ElvenshaeAvalonGuardSynthesis
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    I think we need to implement [chassis][letter] designations, because hearing people go "golf golf golf focus fire" if you don't have G selected becomes the most annoying game of "cycle targets until you find the right one." But if someone said "Atlas golf focus fire," then it's easier to find the target quickly.

    m!ttensKusmerogluTheCanManDiplominator
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Kusmeroglu wrote: »
    It's been discussed in vent several times, but it would be totally awesome to have a 9th person drop as a Commander only role, where they just spectate and put markers on the map. I would heart it so much. (as an added benefit, making recording our matches much more exciting)

    Definitely we should work on running as lances. Cause lance stuff is coming up soon, and more organized flanking ftw.

    This would be rad. And maybe it could turn into a capture and hold game with ammo drops and stuff, too!

    I totally didn't just describe Natural Selection with Mechs what are you talking about you crazy person.

    (moar liek Natural SeMechtion, amirite?)

  • BolthornBolthorn Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    3clipse wrote: »
    I think we need to implement [chassis][letter] designations, because hearing people go "golf golf golf focus fire" if you don't have G selected becomes the most annoying game of "cycle targets until you find the right one." But if someone said "Atlas golf focus fire," then it's easier to find the target quickly.

    It seems in general people have gotten better about this lately. The four man groups I ran in last night were quite good about it and it led to quite a number of glorious victories.

    Bolthorn on
    3cl1ps3
  • KayKay What we need... Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered User regular
    Patience is my biggest flaw. I have a tendency to get antsy and want to DOOO SOMETHING when I should really stick with the team, chase down any lights that try to harry our flanks/rears, then moves in for the kill on the big ones when they're open in a few places.

    That, or chase down isolated LRM boats. You know. The ones that set up 1.5km from the rest of their team, stand on a hill, and hope they don't get noticed. They're usually on your team and useless, though.

    (This is talking about being in my TBT, which is a good light-hunter, but can't win brawls against heavies/assaults. It can sneak around and hit-and-fade/run pretty well, though. 4xML+2xSRM6 hurts.)

    ew9y0DD.png
    3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
  • CampyCampy Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    I think we need to implement [chassis][letter] designations, because hearing people go "golf golf golf focus fire" if you don't have G selected becomes the most annoying game of "cycle targets until you find the right one." But if someone said "Atlas golf focus fire," then it's easier to find the target quickly.

    I think this is a good shout. The Q button can somewhat alleviate this issue, though even that becomes problematic when there's a whole bunch of mechs together.

  • AvalonGuardAvalonGuard Registered User regular
    Inspired a bit from the "How to kill jaeger?" question from the main thread; what do you take the time to leg, and why?

    Of course, light mechs, but what about the bigger stuff?

    My focus lately has been to leg ammo-based Jaegers. They usually have way lower armor there, from my own observations.

  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    I might just start legging everyone. The legs always have lower armor than the center torso, and then you can just sit behind them and blast.

  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    Inspired a bit from the "How to kill jaeger?" question from the main thread; what do you take the time to leg, and why?

    Of course, light mechs, but what about the bigger stuff?

    My focus lately has been to leg ammo-based Jaegers. They usually have way lower armor there, from my own observations.

    Catapults and Jaegers if they are running any Ammo based builds. Splat Stalkers as well (though those are super rare nowadays). And of course, all the Lights.

  • KusmerogluKusmeroglu Consumer Glue (aka Petra) Registered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    I might just start legging everyone. The legs always have lower armor than the center torso, and then you can just sit behind them and blast.

    I'm starting to see the light when it comes to legging stuff, especially in my Kablamaphract, but if you can sit behind them, then one rear torso is a lot less damage to destroy than two legs, right?

    x5jS9QJ.png
  • CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    Every time I try to leg something it takes me longer than just blowing up it's torso.

  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Kusmeroglu wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    I might just start legging everyone. The legs always have lower armor than the center torso, and then you can just sit behind them and blast.

    I'm starting to see the light when it comes to legging stuff, especially in my Kablamaphract, but if you can sit behind them, then one rear torso is a lot less damage to destroy than two legs, right?

    Precisely. Leg an Assault, and then get behind them and laugh and laugh and laugh.

  • DocshiftyDocshifty Registered User regular
    I do have a real annoyance with being legged. Not the reduced spees but that it turns on some crazy in combat thing like MMOs have. Get legged, dont take damage fo three or four seconds, moce at half your max speed. Get hit, move at a tenth or something. Its just a really wierd mechanic when I think about it because it acts precisely like sprint in The Secret World or TOR.

  • CapsaicinCapsaicin I asked my 2 y/o son to draw a pic of my German mom, and thats what we got. Registered User regular
    The good thing about leg and arm targets, is that they don't have a front or rear. So as you're circle hugging, you don't have to worry about facing before pulling the trigger.

    capsaicin_zps254b275f.png
    VedicIntentElvenshae
  • VedicIntentVedicIntent Registered User regular
    Kusmeroglu wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    I might just start legging everyone. The legs always have lower armor than the center torso, and then you can just sit behind them and blast.

    I'm starting to see the light when it comes to legging stuff, especially in my Kablamaphract, but if you can sit behind them, then one rear torso is a lot less damage to destroy than two legs, right?

    I thought beam boats like the 4P or Carebear 1X would be Light killers, but I'm finding it's really freaking hard to track their tiny little hitboxes for a full second or more. I have better luck with AC/20s.

    Rear torso is where it's at, though, if you have the angle. Way less armor, plus you can get a full beam shot in there before they know what happened. Ballistics-heavy mechs also tend to run front-loaded armor setups so they can facetank a little bit longer for those extra DEEPS.

    VT09mOz.png
    m!ttens
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Capsaicin wrote: »
    The good thing about leg and arm targets, is that they don't have a front or rear. So as you're circle hugging, you don't have to worry about facing before pulling the trigger.

    You also don't have to worry with Atlases. Shooting the head at basically any angle counts as center torso. Which is how I got a kill on an Atlas with a cored center torso from its side! :D

    edit: The Catapult and Stalker also have this weakness, in that you can hit their center torso armor from the side of the mech.

    3cl1ps3 on
    VedicIntent
  • CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Kusmeroglu wrote: »
    3clipse wrote: »
    I might just start legging everyone. The legs always have lower armor than the center torso, and then you can just sit behind them and blast.

    I'm starting to see the light when it comes to legging stuff, especially in my Kablamaphract, but if you can sit behind them, then one rear torso is a lot less damage to destroy than two legs, right?

    I thought beam boats like the 4P or Carebear 1X would be Light killers, but I'm finding it's really freaking hard to track their tiny little hitboxes for a full second or more. I have better luck with AC/20s.

    Rear torso is where it's at, though, if you have the angle. Way less armor, plus you can get a full beam shot in there before they know what happened. Ballistics-heavy mechs also tend to run front-loaded armor setups so they can facetank a little bit longer for those extra DEEPS.

    You need firepower in your arms to fuck up lights. 4SP is the light mech hunter. I can hold my arms laser on light mechs all day, except when I'm aiming for legs....then I just get fucked up.

    Cabezone on
  • MvrckMvrck Dwarven MountainhomeRegistered User regular
    3clipse wrote: »
    Capsaicin wrote: »
    The good thing about leg and arm targets, is that they don't have a front or rear. So as you're circle hugging, you don't have to worry about facing before pulling the trigger.

    You also don't have to worry with Atlases. Shooting the head at basically any angle counts as center torso. Which is how I got a kill on an Atlas with a cored center torso from its side! :D

    edit: The Catapult and Stalker also have this weakness, in that you can hit their center torso armor from the side of the mech.

    You can also do this with the Highlander by shooting the "belt" area at the bast of the torso. It's a super small target in the rear, but for some reason it counts as the front center torso.

  • AvalonGuardAvalonGuard Registered User regular
    A preview of what I'm working on. Now that I know how to make paths that don't look like a 3 year old did them with crayon, I feel way more comfortable posting this. Suggestions for coloring or other related subjects are more than welcome.
    YmeFgo6.jpg

    m!ttensVedicIntentKusmerogluCapsaicin
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Making good use of legging requires two thing: having enough pinpoint firepower to where you can strip the leg armor in no more than one or two salvos and a target where legging isn't a waste of time. Trying to leg a Raven on the run with SRMs and a pair of lasers is a fool's errand; you'll spend more time trying to kill the leg than time you would spend just trying to kill the mech. However, a Laserback needs just one salvo on a slow-moving or stationary Raven to destroy or horribly cripple the leg, making for an easy kill. Trying to leg with a pair of AC/2s is also going to be a waste of time on virtually anything (you need to stay on-target way too long), whereas an AC/20 plus lasers can kill a leg real fast on slower mechs. I would also never bother trying to leg an Atlas or an Awesome because of their torso twist/arms, but Stalkers are excellent targets for legging because they've got enormous, stiff-moving legs and virtually no torso twist whatsoever; legging a Stalker and then staying out of its killzone is an excellent way to bring one down without taking heavy damage.

    Also, I was thinking about the ludicrously thin Raven legs the other day and am going to start trying a new idea when going for a leg using lasers; instead of trying to aim to keep hitting a leg, I'm going to start trying to just shake the lasers over the general area of the leg. The problem I keep having with hitting light legs is that, on a major miss, I end up barely touching the leg because I keep trying to correct my aim, throwing the vast majority of the beam time off-target. I figure sweeping the lasers rapidly back and forth across the general area of the legs will dramatically increase the amount of time the lasers actually spend on the target, especially if I'm catching both legs in the sweep. Instead of trying to hit a pinpoint target, I'll be aiming for center-of-mass near the ground, which is a much broader, easier target, and just raking shots side to side.

    Kusmeroglu
  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    A preview of what I'm working on. Now that I know how to make paths that don't look like a 3 year old did them with crayon, I feel way more comfortable posting this. Suggestions for coloring or other related subjects are more than welcome.
    YmeFgo6.jpg

    I can't be the only one who sees a penis there.

    AvalonGuardElvenshaeVedicIntent
  • m!ttensm!ttens he/himRegistered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Doing the Leg Laser Jitter™ works decently well. It it also possible to try and aim near the hip joint to maximize damge. Since the upper "thigh" area doesn't have nearly the range of motion that the feet and "shins" of the leg have, you spend more time on target, and if your aim is a little off you deal damage to the torso section instead, which isn't exactly your goal but you're at least putting damage on your target. I suppose I should try and find that post on the official forums about where the hit boxes are for all the mechs. It's a pretty valuable resource when figuring out how to pinpoint damage to a particular section.

    EDIT: Accidentally a word.

    m!ttens on
    GethApogeeCapsaicin
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    A preview of what I'm working on. Now that I know how to make paths that don't look like a 3 year old did them with crayon, I feel way more comfortable posting this. Suggestions for coloring or other related subjects are more than welcome.
    YmeFgo6.jpg

    I can't be the only one who sees a penis there.

    I see weinerdick, butt, and farting.

    ElvenshaeTOGSolidAvalonGuard3cl1ps3
  • AvalonGuardAvalonGuard Registered User regular
    I should clarify that map is for scouting paths.

  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    I realized that not everyone might know this, and since the discussion turned to legging: When a mech loses a leg, its top speed (forward and reverse) gets reduced to 10%. After a few seconds, if the legs* don't take any damage for that time, the top speed gets set to 50% of normal. BUT everytime that mech takes damage in the legs again, its speed gets reset to 10%. So, whenever that legged Raven tries running and is getting away because you're in a slow-ass bucket of bolts, just tickle its leg again!

    *I'm not sure whether it's only the damaged leg, or either. I tend to assume it's either leg, just to be on the safe side.

    Indie Dev Blog | Twitter | Steam
    Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.

    I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
    m!ttensCapsaicin
  • CabezoneCabezone Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    A preview of what I'm working on. Now that I know how to make paths that don't look like a 3 year old did them with crayon, I feel way more comfortable posting this. Suggestions for coloring or other related subjects are more than welcome.
    YmeFgo6.jpg

    I can't be the only one who sees a penis there.

    uhhhhh...not mine man....you may want to see someone.

  • VedicIntentVedicIntent Registered User regular
    Kashaar wrote: »
    I realized that not everyone might know this, and since the discussion turned to legging: When a mech loses a leg, its top speed (forward and reverse) gets reduced to 10%. After a few seconds, if the legs* don't take any damage for that time, the top speed gets set to 50% of normal. BUT everytime that mech takes damage in the legs again, its speed gets reset to 10%. So, whenever that legged Raven tries running and is getting away because you're in a slow-ass bucket of bolts, just tickle its leg again!

    *I'm not sure whether it's only the damaged leg, or either. I tend to assume it's either leg, just to be on the safe side.

    That...is really weird. Good to know.

    VT09mOz.png
  • KashaarKashaar Low OrbitRegistered User regular
    Kashaar wrote: »
    I realized that not everyone might know this, and since the discussion turned to legging: When a mech loses a leg, its top speed (forward and reverse) gets reduced to 10%. After a few seconds, if the legs* don't take any damage for that time, the top speed gets set to 50% of normal. BUT everytime that mech takes damage in the legs again, its speed gets reset to 10%. So, whenever that legged Raven tries running and is getting away because you're in a slow-ass bucket of bolts, just tickle its leg again!

    *I'm not sure whether it's only the damaged leg, or either. I tend to assume it's either leg, just to be on the safe side.

    That...is really weird. Good to know.

    I take it as the hip gyros taking a moment to readjust to the failed leg actuators, and compensating accordingly. Getting blasted around requires them to recompensate again.

    Indie Dev Blog | Twitter | Steam
    Unreal Engine 4 Developers Community.

    I'm working on a cute little video game! Here's a link for you.
    ElvenshaeVedicIntent
  • SpectrumSpectrum Archer of Inferno Chaldea Rec RoomRegistered User regular
    Inspired a bit from the "How to kill jaeger?" question from the main thread; what do you take the time to leg, and why?

    Of course, light mechs, but what about the bigger stuff?

    My focus lately has been to leg ammo-based Jaegers. They usually have way lower armor there, from my own observations.
    I am a preacher of the Cult of Legging!

    I'll leg lights, Cicadas, non-PPC boating Stalkers, and some Catapults (mostly anything with SRMs and it also depends on whether I feel like I can just backstab or cockpit easier). I'll pretty much never leg Hunchbacks or Cataphracts. Anything else is only generally a target of opportunity.

    XNnw6Gk.jpg
  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Kashaar wrote: »
    Kashaar wrote: »
    I realized that not everyone might know this, and since the discussion turned to legging: When a mech loses a leg, its top speed (forward and reverse) gets reduced to 10%. After a few seconds, if the legs* don't take any damage for that time, the top speed gets set to 50% of normal. BUT everytime that mech takes damage in the legs again, its speed gets reset to 10%. So, whenever that legged Raven tries running and is getting away because you're in a slow-ass bucket of bolts, just tickle its leg again!

    *I'm not sure whether it's only the damaged leg, or either. I tend to assume it's either leg, just to be on the safe side.

    That...is really weird. Good to know.

    I take it as the hip gyros taking a moment to readjust to the failed leg actuators, and compensating accordingly. Getting blasted around requires them to recompensate again.

    You don't have to hit the legs. Any amount of damage anywhere on the mech will drop the speed back down to the lowest value.

    I actually rather like the system because it provides a mode between "totally screwed" and "totally fine", as long as you aren't taking damage for a bit. Makes it so you can't completely ignore legged opponents, but also means somebody can get away if they get ignored for a few seconds and can get their speed up.

    KashaarTheCanManElvenshae
  • f3rretf3rret Registered User regular
    I was actually legged for the first time ever yesterday. It happened in my Jager, but I had 40/60 armour in each leg, I wasn't THAT cheap with it. They must have had to work on it for a while.

    steam_sig.png
  • KusmerogluKusmeroglu Consumer Glue (aka Petra) Registered User regular
    m!ttens wrote: »
    suppose I should try and find that post on the official forums about where the hit boxes are for all the mechs. It's a pretty valuable resource when figuring out how to pinpoint damage to a particular section. EDIT: Accidentally a word.

    Should put it in the Strategy OP

    x5jS9QJ.png
  • 3cl1ps33cl1ps3 I will build a labyrinth to house the cheese Registered User regular
    Kusmeroglu wrote: »
    m!ttens wrote: »
    suppose I should try and find that post on the official forums about where the hit boxes are for all the mechs. It's a pretty valuable resource when figuring out how to pinpoint damage to a particular section. EDIT: Accidentally a word.

    Should put it in the Strategy OP

    Ask, and ye shall receive

  • m!ttensm!ttens he/himRegistered User regular
    Thanks guys, for the reminder and the link. Adding to OP

  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    I just realized how disastrously large the Jenner's CT really is.

  • Ninja Snarl PNinja Snarl P My helmet is my burden. Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    I just realized how disastrously large the Jenner's CT really is.

    If it weren't for streaks currently going right to the CT, I'd say the Jenner is actually the most balanced of the light mechs. Its hitbox geometry isn't horrendously screwed up, it can pack a mean wallop for its speed and weight, and it doesn't break fun with ECM bullshit. Yeah, it does have a fairly large CT, but its hitboxes actually work, so trying to kill one isn't a glitchy pain in the ass. At the same time, a good Jenner pilot can shred mechs more than double its weight and make them want to soak their heads in lava to just make the hurting stop. A good Jenner pilot is a nightmare, but without the crutch of the streak-circle-jerk maneuver.

    Though to be honest, it's pretty stupid that the Raven side torsos project so enormously forward and the Jenner side torsos are just little nubs between the arms and the CT. Don't see why PGI has such a hard time building appropriate hitboxes for stuff.

    AvalonGuardTheCanMan
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