ShimshaiFlush with Success!Isle of EmeraldRegistered Userregular
I'll be checking out the free weekend but I think that will be all I do with it for the time being. Patches and expansions will likely make a big difference to it eventually.
It seems to me like there are just fewer ways to play BE compared to Civ 5, largely due to the absence of religion and the world congress (and to a lesser extent, great people).
If there is no interest from anybody by the end of the weekend to do the 2v2v2v2 I'll have to drop one player and go as a 2v2v2 unless somebody wants an AI ally (where trading will be off limits to them).
If there is no interest from anybody by the end of the weekend to do the 2v2v2v2 I'll have to drop one player and go as a 2v2v2 unless somebody wants an AI ally (where trading will be off limits to them).
I believe the AI also researches the same tech you do when they're on a team. The only real downside is you don't have the same interaction and cooperation as a you would with a human
As for BE, I started to click with it last night and finished a transcendence victory in like 270 turns of Quick speed. Could have stomped the AI if I wanted in war, but there was no real need to do so. And Quick in the beginning of a game feels like standard in V, but the end game was very quick with making over 400 culture and energy per turn. It really ends up feeling like it's more of a total conversion mod than a different game, so I'm definitely going to wait for a couple expansions and get a GOTY edition or whatever they're going to call it
BE is alright from my free weekend romp. Scifi is cool, I like strategic games yadda yadda yadda...
But I have a big beef with how the game is balanced. Civ5 was enjoyable for me because you can build so tall and still be competitive at high difficulty settings. There's nothing more boring than just chugging through minute micro management, or mashing next turn because the game is too easy, civ4 broke me for the genré in this regard where I'm just not interested in spending 3 hours doing rote stuff. BE really incentivizes you to go really wide and build loads of cities which turns the mid-late game into a slow bog where I'm microing every town to build more tiles, buildings and units than I care to count.
I really enjoy finding the builds and combos but man this game does not allow for any wiggle room in how you handle the size of your empire. More is better, it's mostly a question of how to maximize the amount of cities you have while keeping under 10 negative health.
If there is no interest from anybody by the end of the weekend to do the 2v2v2v2 I'll have to drop one player and go as a 2v2v2 unless somebody wants an AI ally (where trading will be off limits to them).
I believe the AI also researches the same tech you do when they're on a team. The only real downside is you don't have the same interaction and cooperation as a you would with a human
As for BE, I started to click with it last night and finished a transcendence victory in like 270 turns of Quick speed. Could have stomped the AI if I wanted in war, but there was no real need to do so. And Quick in the beginning of a game feels like standard in V, but the end game was very quick with making over 400 culture and energy per turn. It really ends up feeling like it's more of a total conversion mod than a different game, so I'm definitely going to wait for a couple expansions and get a GOTY edition or whatever they're going to call it
Yeah, I just won in 340 on Standard. I was fucking around a bit so probably could have gone faster. Fought a brief war with PAC to make sure they didn't get the warping colonists from Earth victory before my flower bloomed.
Gonna try one more now that I sort of know what I'm doing and try to win before the free weekend expires. Not sure I want to spend money on it though.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
0
MordrothEntrepreNerdNew Republic of AlbertaRegistered Userregular
I dunno, I bought it at release and have really only played 1.5 games - in both I totally forgot which faction I was simply because they all felt exactly the same. I also think the aliens were a missed opportunity. Sentient aliens would have been WAY more interesting. I mean, alien city states? that would have been awesome.
My default instinct is to go wide. WIDE WIDE WIDE. So I'm kind of happy with that. Faction differences aren't huge, but I set up this game to basically be culture spam from the very start (Africa + artists) which I'm liking. Only issue is there are fucking nests everywhere I want cities so I'm in a pitched battle with the aliens the whole game. And that means my military can't go crush Space Polynesia, which I really need to do.
Also -14 health ain't great, though I'm almost done with the Prosperity tree which should fix it. And my three new cities can start making the health making buildings. Should decide how to win.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Is the Beyond Earth AI obnoxiously stubborn compared to the Civ 5 AI? Because three of them declared war on me and none of them would make peace until I had entirely eliminated Polystralia. Which was super obnoxious because their capital was basically surrounded by canyons and had very few ways to actually get near it. Needed the Levitating Death Tanks.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
0
wiltingI had fun once and it was awfulRegistered Userregular
The way these GMR games drag on kinda stresses me out too much, same thing happened to me playing neptune's pride, ceases to be enjoyable.
@jdarksun Ah sorry, no, that's working as intended...
My default instinct is to go wide. WIDE WIDE WIDE. So I'm kind of happy with that. Faction differences aren't huge, but I set up this game to basically be culture spam from the very start (Africa + artists) which I'm liking. Only issue is there are fucking nests everywhere I want cities so I'm in a pitched battle with the aliens the whole game. And that means my military can't go crush Space Polynesia, which I really need to do.
Also -14 health ain't great, though I'm almost done with the Prosperity tree which should fix it. And my three new cities can start making the health making buildings. Should decide how to win.
That first game I went harmony and by the end game I had +70 health. Never went more than -5, probably because I was very conscience of keeping it positive, and I was making enough funds energy to buy everything quicker than it took to build it. Harmony is also fun in that their end game unit is a giant hulking alien insect thing.
As for leaders and setup, I can ever see myself play anything but africa, +culture (maybe production), and starting with pioneering tech, and ground scanners. All the other starting options just seem a lot weaker. Also, some additional options for building upgrades through the quest would be nice. Also choosing from the same 2 options is just boring after the second play through.
I'm up for whatever you guys are planning, @Shimshai.
Also, Free Weekend on BE and there's -no- new post onthe PA thread or people on my Steam friend list playing it.
Very telling.
Is the Beyond Earth AI obnoxiously stubborn compared to the Civ 5 AI? Because three of them declared war on me and none of them would make peace until I had entirely eliminated Polystralia. Which was super obnoxious because their capital was basically surrounded by canyons and had very few ways to actually get near it. Needed the Levitating Death Tanks.
AI making peace depends how much of a threat to them you are. If you are at their gates and razing their cities they want you to leave them alone, alternatively if you are begging for mercy they aren't likely to let up.
So if there is a stand off where neither of you are really bothering each other but totally "At war" then they wont sue for peace if they believe they have more military power than you. Or they will make ridiculous demands because they think they have the upper hand.
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StragintDo Not GiftAlways DeclinesRegistered Userregular
I usually have absolutely no idea what I'm doing in Civ 5. A lot of the times I have almost no gold or everything is developing really slow. When I make new cities it takes a ton of turns to build anything and I don't know what reduces that.
Is there a site I can use to figure out exactly how all this stuff works? I have 53 hours in the game and I feel like I should know how things work.
PSN: Reaper_Stragint, Steam: DoublePitstoChesty
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
Is the Beyond Earth AI obnoxiously stubborn compared to the Civ 5 AI? Because three of them declared war on me and none of them would make peace until I had entirely eliminated Polystralia. Which was super obnoxious because their capital was basically surrounded by canyons and had very few ways to actually get near it. Needed the Levitating Death Tanks.
AI making peace depends how much of a threat to them you are. If you are at their gates and razing their cities they want you to leave them alone, alternatively if you are begging for mercy they aren't likely to let up.
So if there is a stand off where neither of you are really bothering each other but totally "At war" then they wont sue for peace if they believe they have more military power than you. Or they will make ridiculous demands because they think they have the upper hand.
That's how the Civ 5 version works, but even Polystralia wouldn't even negotiate with me and I was taking their cities.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Is the Beyond Earth AI obnoxiously stubborn compared to the Civ 5 AI? Because three of them declared war on me and none of them would make peace until I had entirely eliminated Polystralia. Which was super obnoxious because their capital was basically surrounded by canyons and had very few ways to actually get near it. Needed the Levitating Death Tanks.
AI making peace depends how much of a threat to them you are. If you are at their gates and razing their cities they want you to leave them alone, alternatively if you are begging for mercy they aren't likely to let up.
So if there is a stand off where neither of you are really bothering each other but totally "At war" then they wont sue for peace if they believe they have more military power than you. Or they will make ridiculous demands because they think they have the upper hand.
That's how the Civ 5 version works, but even Polystralia wouldn't even negotiate with me and I was taking their cities.
As far as everybody knew, the BE AI was a copy of the Civ 5 AI. But then post-release, IIRC, people found that the BE AI would roll over and make peace deals a lot more easily for some reason. And then a patch came that toughened the AI up, at least diplomatically, but it sounds like from what you're saying, it's gone past what the Civ V AI would do, so.....
I usually have absolutely no idea what I'm doing in Civ 5. A lot of the times I have almost no gold or everything is developing really slow. When I make new cities it takes a ton of turns to build anything and I don't know what reduces that.
Is there a site I can use to figure out exactly how all this stuff works? I have 53 hours in the game and I feel like I should know how things work.
1) OK so first thing is first. You won't be able to keep up with AI that is better than prince. I mean, its possible but not easy for early players. If you've got the difficulty harder than that then you're playing against AI that has starting asset bonuses and flat % production bonuses. Only the fact that the AI is really bad saves it
2) Next comes game pace. If you're playing Marathon well things are going to take a long time. Most of the talk in here is based around "quick" because quick is the fastest and that is essential for multiplayer of any kind. Note that this does have balance implications. On quick, military is less strong. On Marathon military is a lot stronger because armies can move further per build cycle
Alright now down to the brass tacks.
Production in Civ 5 comes in two vectors with a limiter. Hammers and Food are the vectors and happiness is the limiter.
Hammers produce buildings and units and food produces population which produces science. Obviously more of each is better.
The reason it takes you a long time to build up your cities is because you have bad land or because you're exploiting it poorly. Open up your city and go to citizen management. From there you can set the city to work specific tiles or set the city to focus on a specific aspect. Generally the default focus is a food focus, and its very poor in producing hammers. But hammers are what you need in order to make stuff.
Bad land is land that doesn't produce a lot of hammers. Hills are important for this because hills with mines produce 3 hammers. Hills with mines and steel produce 4! If you don't have any hills you're limited to about 1 hammer per tile (well 3 for a plains, steeel, mine) which well sucks.
The other thing is that auto-upgrade workers likes to make farms. But you don't want to have farms everywhere unless you have nothing to build. You want to manually have your workers work. And focus on things which produce hammers
Is the Beyond Earth AI obnoxiously stubborn compared to the Civ 5 AI? Because three of them declared war on me and none of them would make peace until I had entirely eliminated Polystralia. Which was super obnoxious because their capital was basically surrounded by canyons and had very few ways to actually get near it. Needed the Levitating Death Tanks.
AI making peace depends how much of a threat to them you are. If you are at their gates and razing their cities they want you to leave them alone, alternatively if you are begging for mercy they aren't likely to let up.
So if there is a stand off where neither of you are really bothering each other but totally "At war" then they wont sue for peace if they believe they have more military power than you. Or they will make ridiculous demands because they think they have the upper hand.
That's how the Civ 5 version works, but even Polystralia wouldn't even negotiate with me and I was taking their cities.
Just finished my first game. I think Polystralia is just a fucking dick.
Dude declared war on me at least 3 times with the same "None so deaf" line. But I got a huge Warmonger penalty because I took one of citys (which he took back).
Finish game 2 with 2 minutes left on the free weekend. And not buying it until it's much cheaper.
Only because holy shit is the purity win badly designed. So with Harmony you just build your pretty flower and let it sit there, possibly building the accelerating buildings. With purity you build the gate and then you have to manually warp in earthings every fucking turn? Until you have 20 of them? And then you have to find spots for cities. And they are the only units in either Civ 5 or this with 1 movement. Did I mention one per turn? And you need at least four city sites. Tedious horseshit. HAAAAAAAATE.
At least I had a desert I had never bothered to settle to stuff them. Probably should have because with Vivariums/all the farm bonuses deserts aren't that bad, but I didn't. Thankfully. Or I would have had to go off and destroy ARC to kill their flower.
Is the Warp Gate just as bad?
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
0
wiltingI had fun once and it was awfulRegistered Userregular
Finish game 2 with 2 minutes left on the free weekend. And not buying it until it's much cheaper.
Only because holy shit is the purity win badly designed. So with Harmony you just build your pretty flower and let it sit there, possibly building the accelerating buildings. With purity you build the gate and then you have to manually warp in earthings every fucking turn? Until you have 20 of them? And then you have to find spots for cities. And they are the only units in either Civ 5 or this with 1 movement. Did I mention one per turn? And you need at least four city sites. Tedious horseshit. HAAAAAAAATE.
At least I had a desert I had never bothered to settle to stuff them. Probably should have because with Vivariums/all the farm bonuses deserts aren't that bad, but I didn't. Thankfully. Or I would have had to go off and destroy ARC to kill their flower.
Is the Warp Gate just as bad?
You have to move your units through it with one unit per turn. You need a total of 2k combat strength. Depending on how well you planned this it can take anything between 10 and 50 turns to get everything through.
My girlfriend got the game as a xmas gift from me, but after watching how slow the victory process was a few times she's back to civ5. We really hope future expansions fix the game and put it on par with civ5.
I traded Cardiff to Poland. I suppose with open borders my unit didn't get pushed out of the city.
Yeah, I think I'm done.
Agreed. That is borderline cheating in a multiplayer game. If you do that in any other game I'm in, I'll just leave. Trading a city that you are losing to the AI is the dirtiest way to play. You literally make it impossible to conquer your cities. It is dirty, and you are welcome to do that in any single player game. Doing that in a MP game, especially to an AI, is deplorable.
I want to like BE, but I just can't bring myself to in the state it's in now
intellectually I know that the game is has always been just a competition to see who can produce the most hammers/food, but so much of the civ 5 mechanics and window dressing have been removed in BE that it makes things seem kinda dull. I like the tech web idea and the units, but the similarity of all the victory conditions (aside from domination) makes it all seem kinda boring
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Trading cities to the AI is up there with exploiting city states for infinite xp. Don't do it.
+1
wiltingI had fun once and it was awfulRegistered Userregular
edited January 2015
Yeah because a human player about to lose their last city totally wouldn't want to trade for a new one. Or trade for one under plenty of other circumstances. Trying to keep the one friendly faction left alive is totally not cool. Human populations have never moved anywhere ever in history. Denying the spoils to the enemy is also a thing an evil dictator has never tried to do. Sacrificing a city out of desperation to buy a turn or two of time is totally a winning strategy that totally works as many times as you like and won't bite you in the ass at all.
Arbitrarily vetoing what other players can do (without any warning) within the rules of the game is totes cool just because you happen to object to this particular silly gamey system in a sea of silly gamey systems. "I'll only play if you don't do this particular thing that is part of the game but I won't tell you what that is until you do it."
I've personally found Reg's posts to have been consistently rude thoughout the game, stressing me out to a degree that I've been avoiding the forums and avoided joining any more games, but I'm the bad guy.
wilting on
0
wiltingI had fun once and it was awfulRegistered Userregular
edited January 2015
Damn I was going to surrender to let you guys keep playing without me, if you objected so much. Leaving the game without giving me a chance to respond, also not cool.
"Impossible to conquer your cities" bloody hell. I bought 2/3 turns max and gave another faction a stay of execution.
I'm sorry, I had no idea that it would be a big deal.
It's a valid strategy - the game mechanics allow you to do it. And it's certainly effective - my units were forcibly ejected and randomly scattered across the map. It's just not any fun. That's an incredible amount of control that's been taken away from me, and presumably that's going to happen every time I'm close to taking another city of yours. So I'd rather just not play.
I appreciate your frustrations in dealing with communication from opposing players - after all, most games prevent conflicting factions from cross communicating - so perhaps in the future we should limit game communication to the game itself or the GMR page.
Regardless, I'm sad to see that game end. Things were really heating up, and you were about to cut off my reinforcements with your frigates. My economy was in tatters and my assaulting forces needed upgrades. I was curious to see how it would end.
So I have a bunch of those quirky scenario maps where the rules / available civs are tweaked to model specific points in history. I'm really interested in playing some of them and actually bought a couple of the DLCs mostly for that opportunity. Has anyone tried these? Any recommendations on where to start?
Triptycho: A card-and-dice tabletop indie RPG currently in development and playtesting
So because he felt that "in character" game banter was harsh and gave him stress, we're now suddenly unable to communicate about it? Feel free to skip reading the posts, but some people here enjoyed the banter from that game quite a bit. I'm not inclined to change a rule when speaking about the online games. Because in a live MP game, there is a chat window. You can make the decision to disregard the posts or not participate.
I responded the same way when this happened in the first GMR game I played in as well.
2v2v2v2 sadly did not get interest over the weekend. All others joined the game so now we decide to either add an AI to a player or eliminate one player from the game. Was anybody going to be unable to add another GMR game? Anybody feel like volunteering to drop? I'd like to get the teams set and start drafting today.
@REG Rysk It looks like Draygo expressed interest here in the thread. At least, I think he did? He was a little vague, so it's possible he was talking about being interested in something else (pizza, maybe?).
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I believe the AI also researches the same tech you do when they're on a team. The only real downside is you don't have the same interaction and cooperation as a you would with a human
As for BE, I started to click with it last night and finished a transcendence victory in like 270 turns of Quick speed. Could have stomped the AI if I wanted in war, but there was no real need to do so. And Quick in the beginning of a game feels like standard in V, but the end game was very quick with making over 400 culture and energy per turn. It really ends up feeling like it's more of a total conversion mod than a different game, so I'm definitely going to wait for a couple expansions and get a GOTY edition or whatever they're going to call it
But I have a big beef with how the game is balanced. Civ5 was enjoyable for me because you can build so tall and still be competitive at high difficulty settings. There's nothing more boring than just chugging through minute micro management, or mashing next turn because the game is too easy, civ4 broke me for the genré in this regard where I'm just not interested in spending 3 hours doing rote stuff. BE really incentivizes you to go really wide and build loads of cities which turns the mid-late game into a slow bog where I'm microing every town to build more tiles, buildings and units than I care to count.
I really enjoy finding the builds and combos but man this game does not allow for any wiggle room in how you handle the size of your empire. More is better, it's mostly a question of how to maximize the amount of cities you have while keeping under 10 negative health.
Yeah, I just won in 340 on Standard. I was fucking around a bit so probably could have gone faster. Fought a brief war with PAC to make sure they didn't get the warping colonists from Earth victory before my flower bloomed.
Gonna try one more now that I sort of know what I'm doing and try to win before the free weekend expires. Not sure I want to spend money on it though.
Also -14 health ain't great, though I'm almost done with the Prosperity tree which should fix it. And my three new cities can start making the health making buildings. Should decide how to win.
@jdarksun Ah sorry, no, that's working as intended...
That first game I went harmony and by the end game I had +70 health. Never went more than -5, probably because I was very conscience of keeping it positive, and I was making enough funds energy to buy everything quicker than it took to build it. Harmony is also fun in that their end game unit is a giant hulking alien insect thing.
As for leaders and setup, I can ever see myself play anything but africa, +culture (maybe production), and starting with pioneering tech, and ground scanners. All the other starting options just seem a lot weaker. Also, some additional options for building upgrades through the quest would be nice. Also choosing from the same 2 options is just boring after the second play through.
Also, Free Weekend on BE and there's -no- new post onthe PA thread or people on my Steam friend list playing it.
Very telling.
Please don't go. The drones need you. They look up to you.
So if there is a stand off where neither of you are really bothering each other but totally "At war" then they wont sue for peace if they believe they have more military power than you. Or they will make ridiculous demands because they think they have the upper hand.
Is there a site I can use to figure out exactly how all this stuff works? I have 53 hours in the game and I feel like I should know how things work.
What is the point of being alive if you don't at least try to do something remarkable? ~ Mario Novak
I never fear death or dyin', I only fear never trying.
That's how the Civ 5 version works, but even Polystralia wouldn't even negotiate with me and I was taking their cities.
As far as everybody knew, the BE AI was a copy of the Civ 5 AI. But then post-release, IIRC, people found that the BE AI would roll over and make peace deals a lot more easily for some reason. And then a patch came that toughened the AI up, at least diplomatically, but it sounds like from what you're saying, it's gone past what the Civ V AI would do, so.....
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1) OK so first thing is first. You won't be able to keep up with AI that is better than prince. I mean, its possible but not easy for early players. If you've got the difficulty harder than that then you're playing against AI that has starting asset bonuses and flat % production bonuses. Only the fact that the AI is really bad saves it
2) Next comes game pace. If you're playing Marathon well things are going to take a long time. Most of the talk in here is based around "quick" because quick is the fastest and that is essential for multiplayer of any kind. Note that this does have balance implications. On quick, military is less strong. On Marathon military is a lot stronger because armies can move further per build cycle
Alright now down to the brass tacks.
Production in Civ 5 comes in two vectors with a limiter. Hammers and Food are the vectors and happiness is the limiter.
Hammers produce buildings and units and food produces population which produces science. Obviously more of each is better.
The reason it takes you a long time to build up your cities is because you have bad land or because you're exploiting it poorly. Open up your city and go to citizen management. From there you can set the city to work specific tiles or set the city to focus on a specific aspect. Generally the default focus is a food focus, and its very poor in producing hammers. But hammers are what you need in order to make stuff.
Bad land is land that doesn't produce a lot of hammers. Hills are important for this because hills with mines produce 3 hammers. Hills with mines and steel produce 4! If you don't have any hills you're limited to about 1 hammer per tile (well 3 for a plains, steeel, mine) which well sucks.
The other thing is that auto-upgrade workers likes to make farms. But you don't want to have farms everywhere unless you have nothing to build. You want to manually have your workers work. And focus on things which produce hammers
Dude declared war on me at least 3 times with the same "None so deaf" line. But I got a huge Warmonger penalty because I took one of citys (which he took back).
Only because holy shit is the purity win badly designed. So with Harmony you just build your pretty flower and let it sit there, possibly building the accelerating buildings. With purity you build the gate and then you have to manually warp in earthings every fucking turn? Until you have 20 of them? And then you have to find spots for cities. And they are the only units in either Civ 5 or this with 1 movement. Did I mention one per turn? And you need at least four city sites. Tedious horseshit. HAAAAAAAATE.
At least I had a desert I had never bothered to settle to stuff them. Probably should have because with Vivariums/all the farm bonuses deserts aren't that bad, but I didn't. Thankfully. Or I would have had to go off and destroy ARC to kill their flower.
Is the Warp Gate just as bad?
I traded Cardiff to Poland. I suppose with open borders my unit didn't get pushed out of the city.
You have to move your units through it with one unit per turn. You need a total of 2k combat strength. Depending on how well you planned this it can take anything between 10 and 50 turns to get everything through.
My girlfriend got the game as a xmas gift from me, but after watching how slow the victory process was a few times she's back to civ5. We really hope future expansions fix the game and put it on par with civ5.
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Agreed. That is borderline cheating in a multiplayer game. If you do that in any other game I'm in, I'll just leave. Trading a city that you are losing to the AI is the dirtiest way to play. You literally make it impossible to conquer your cities. It is dirty, and you are welcome to do that in any single player game. Doing that in a MP game, especially to an AI, is deplorable.
<REG Rysk has publicly denounced wilting!>
@wilting @jdark
Interesting strats.
intellectually I know that the game is has always been just a competition to see who can produce the most hammers/food, but so much of the civ 5 mechanics and window dressing have been removed in BE that it makes things seem kinda dull. I like the tech web idea and the units, but the similarity of all the victory conditions (aside from domination) makes it all seem kinda boring
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Arbitrarily vetoing what other players can do (without any warning) within the rules of the game is totes cool just because you happen to object to this particular silly gamey system in a sea of silly gamey systems. "I'll only play if you don't do this particular thing that is part of the game but I won't tell you what that is until you do it."
I've personally found Reg's posts to have been consistently rude thoughout the game, stressing me out to a degree that I've been avoiding the forums and avoided joining any more games, but I'm the bad guy.
"Impossible to conquer your cities" bloody hell. I bought 2/3 turns max and gave another faction a stay of execution.
I'm sorry, I had no idea that it would be a big deal.
I appreciate your frustrations in dealing with communication from opposing players - after all, most games prevent conflicting factions from cross communicating - so perhaps in the future we should limit game communication to the game itself or the GMR page.
Regardless, I'm sad to see that game end. Things were really heating up, and you were about to cut off my reinforcements with your frigates. My economy was in tatters and my assaulting forces needed upgrades. I was curious to see how it would end.
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Sorry.
Well, I think game banter is a huge part of the fun for people, its just not really my thing.
I responded the same way when this happened in the first GMR game I played in as well.
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