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Strip Search - Elimination #2

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Posts

  • l-o-ll-o-l Registered User regular
    @Evermourn

    So far, those that have faced elimination have strips (or are involved in strips), that are "joke based". So I'm not sure that a "joke" is a requirement; rather that they are being judged for trying to be funny and failing.

  • seegruseegru Master of None St. PaulRegistered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Yea Katie girl! Keep it up. Sorry, but kind of glad to see Ty move on. Watching him on here, I want to nudge him in the back of the head to get the words out like a skipping record player (google vinyl records young'uns). Mike & Jerry are awesome on here. Great personalities on camera. Loving the show!

    seegru on
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Ah nuts, waddled into the wrong thread and got spoilered. D:

    Ouch. I knew this was going to happen with the wrong threat title on this episode. I've put in two reports on it but it's still misnamed. :(

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  • Dark Raven XDark Raven X The woods are lovely dark and deepRegistered User regular
    Ah, it's my fault for not keeping up. :P

    Gotta say, Katie's art, for 90 minutes is incredible. I couldn't manage something that good looking in a week or more of drawing. Ty and Alex' were great too. Just so impressed seeing what these people can manage in such a short time.

    Also the "time" comments just get better.
    45 minutes! Is less than you have... you have an hour.

    And miles to go before I sleep.
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Well I sent a message to Tube and it looks like the thread title has finally been updated. I'll do that next time instead of bothering with the report button.

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  • piLpiL Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    I'm not an artist, so could someone explain to me why Abby's chin/shoulder tangent is considered a bad thing?

    Tangents are sort of self-defined as bad. What makes it a tangent is that a certain line has unintended effects on the image. It causes confusion in the viewer's perception. This could be overt confusion in that someone doesn't understand what the image is trying to convey because they think something distant is very close or an object that wasn't intended to be illustrated is. More commonly, however, are tangents like Abby's tangent. What Mike mentioned in the first elimination is true: you've noticed it, you just don't know you noticed it. It makes you uncomfortable with the image because your brain is forced to consider multiple interpretations of the image simultaneously.

    To use the listed case as the example, if you covered up part of the image and ignored the whole of it being a person, it looks almost like the squareish shape of the chin is balancing precariously on the pointed triangle of the shoulder. But if the chin actually was there it sort of means a very weird positioning of her head Go ahead and put your chin on your shoulder while still looking ahead squared and look at yourself in the mirror. Don't pull a muscle trying to do this, and consider how different holding yourself like that is from the shrug the image is trying to communicate. While ultimately the shrug wins out and you probably perceive it as such, the aesthetic quality of image is affected subconciously by the extra effort your brain is putting into putting the image together.

    The reason it's considered as much as it has been is that it's certainly a case of 'an ounce of prevention'. If someone's perspective looks weird, there's usually no quick fix; it's rarely one line in the wrong place, but rather a failure to properly construct atmosphere and foreshortening. Fixing perspective errors like that in artwork generally comes down to: practice perspective for three months and then start your image over. But this is such a minor thing to fix that fixing it is really just a matter of putting a few pixels of white space between the chin and that shoulder. It seems unprofessional because it's a super easily fixed thing that must have been overlooked.

    Since I've already filled up a page of junk, I'm going to go ahead and explain why this mistake happens even though you'd think the artist would be unnerved by it like the viewer is. When someone is drawing, their brain completes the image before it's even on the page. This is actually what I'd say 90% of art-instruction and practice is trying to overcome: your own perception. This phenomenon allows a person to draw a realistic portrait that they think looks like the person they're drawing and even feel confident about it. Queue ahead two weeks when they look at it again and they realize it looks nothing like the person who they were drawing. So Abby already decided she wanted her self-portrait shrugging, and so she was probably not unnevered by the presence of the tangent because as the creator her brain didn't have to consider other options. Since she's not bothered by it the same way a fresh viewer would be, she wont notice it unless actively looking for it.

    If examples are more your speed, I found this link talking about tangents.

    Edit: Note that while I talk a lot about 'brain' and 'subconscious' I know very little about psychology and neurology. These are metaphors, not scientific descriptions of the phenomena.

    piL on
    MekkaBTube
  • BlueBlueBlueBlue Registered User regular
    That's a great explanation as I have had no idea what Mike was talking about and I was thinking it had to do with how angular it was.

    At the same time, I still can't see anything wrong with it.

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  • ahdokahdok Figment of your imagination Registered User regular
    I had a go at this challenge too (again, I challenge all webcomic artists or would-be webcomic artists to have a go at these.) - 90 minutes is not a long time to write a good joke with these concepts, let alone also draw it.

    I'm not sure how mine turned out, I wasn't super-pleased with it I guess. It's here:

    http://comicpress.socksandpuppets.com/308-stripsearch-ep-07-elim-02-the-futurebeing-lost/

    http://www.socksandpuppets.com for comics, art and other junk.
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  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    piL wrote: »
    This phenomenon allows a person to draw a realistic portrait that they think looks like the person they're drawing and even feel confident about it. Queue ahead two weeks when they look at it again and they realize it looks nothing like the person who they were drawing.
    So that's why I can never read my own handwriting after it's sat a festered for a few days!

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  • kscullykscully Registered User regular
    By far enjoying these elimination episodes more than the others, pure creative stress, deadline skirting stuff.
    I hope there's more creative challenges for the whole group in the coming episodes.

    Sadly two pretty uninspired comics this time out, but then, nobody's going to produce their best work with their coat and hat still on.

  • The_Glad_HatterThe_Glad_Hatter Rogue Jpeg Jockey Registered User regular
    edited March 2013
    Someone asked why tangents are bad: This blogpost explains what tangents are in a very clear way.

    Edit: Link was already posted by piL, whips. His reply is better than mine.

    The_Glad_Hatter on
    ozr4h81a0maq.jpg0lwmzl3bfzok.jpg
  • ahdokahdok Figment of your imagination Registered User regular
    Lamp wrote: »
    @GnomelandSecurity

    Honestly I've been following all the artists' blogs and twitters since the show started and most of them have played coy with a joke about whether or not they will or won't get eliminated. Virtually all have made comments about how they had fun and were glad to be on the show, which if taken at face value might seem to imply they didn't win. It's possible someone is really letting something slip, but how would you know? I wouldn't read into any of it. In fact, if I were the winner, I'd probably go out of my way to avoid saying anything that could even imply I did well.

    If I won something like this, I'd probably post a comic implying that I got knocked out about week 4 or 5. :)

    http://www.socksandpuppets.com for comics, art and other junk.
  • d.TFFoSd.TFFoS Registered User regular
    Okay, so after hearing Mike&Jerry's comments and reading through these, I'm a little confused.

    Does a comic need to have a joke? I'm used to reading things like Persepolis and Maus, where comic format is used to tell a story or express emotion. In this aspect, I thought Katie did amazingly. It seemed to be more of art as expression than art as product.

    OTOH, if the rules of the contest imply the artists are aiming for a gag-a-day format, I'd agree Katie's fell quite short.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    I think the idea of the joke/not joke comparison is that comics like Maus or Persepolis or Abominable Charles Christopher are written over the course of months or years, and the comic goes on for pages and pages. Humor is just one of the things a comic can offer; comics can also be dramatic, heartfelt, intriguing, inspirational, character-driven, etc. etc. But when you have a long-running comic like those listed, you have a lot more leeway and breathing space to develop characters people will connect with, or develop a dramatic situation.

    It's not impossible to develop meaningful characters or a gripping drama in 3-8 panels in 90 minutes, but it's much harder to do that than it is to make a joke, the best of which are generally quick and to the point (even within a larger story context). If an artist did present a short drama or character piece that drew the reader in, I don't think M&J would dock points just for not having a hilarious joke. But so far, all the elimination comics have tried to follow the form of a joke (successfully or not), so they get judged on whether that joke is funny or not.

  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    re: the episode, for me the funniest thing in both comics by far were the facial expressions in Katie's. There could have been no text and I would have laughed. They don't look that similar, but the combination of a simple facial style with funny and nuanced expressions reminded me of Kate Beaton's Hark, A Vagrant! art.

  • Roger WilcoRoger Wilco Registered User regular
    d.TFFoS wrote: »
    Okay, so after hearing Mike&Jerry's comments and reading through these, I'm a little confused.

    Does a comic need to have a joke? I'm used to reading things like Persepolis and Maus, where comic format is used to tell a story or express emotion. In this aspect, I thought Katie did amazingly. It seemed to be more of art as expression than art as product.

    OTOH, if the rules of the contest imply the artists are aiming for a gag-a-day format, I'd agree Katie's fell quite short.

    Yeah I think it's implied the competition is for "comedy" comics. They didn't come out and state that, but they only chose artists who were making funny comics, so usually the winner of any competition is going to be the funniest comic, not the best drawn.

    "Not far below you is a large horizontal plane which proves beneficial in maximizing the exploitation of gravity."
  • ahdokahdok Figment of your imagination Registered User regular
    It's very difficult for a stand-alone one page comic to show significant value if it's not a gag strip. I don't think the rules for the show require gags (also I think Khoo said they didn't in the forums somewhere) - but doing a *good* comic without a joke in it seems pretty difficult.

    For me, the "easy option" would be to go for a gag, every time - however as I already said here - these topics are actually quite difficult to make a joke out of. I'm interested to see what the forums can produce!

    http://www.socksandpuppets.com for comics, art and other junk.
  • NavyBeanNavyBean Registered User regular
    I think the interviewer was a great big ball of bitch. Revenge? Have you ever been embarrassed? Was this interview for Tiger Beat?

  • FloydHereNowFloydHereNow Registered User regular
    Katie's art was great, but the comic taken as a whole was really weak. She was lucky to escape this round and live to draw another day.

  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    I would say that for it to be a "comic" it should usually have a joke, hence the word comic. This (and the stigma associate with reading those dang devil comic books) is probably why a lot of people switched to calling stuff like Maus and Persepolis graphic novels.
    But then comic books are usually more about adventures and improbably anatomy than being funny, and I have no idea how to finish the analogy
    comic book : comic strip :: graphic novel : ?
    Graphic page? drawn not funny but still good thing conveying some kind of story?
    Probably best I stay away from nomenclature.

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  • GundiGundi Serious Bismuth Registered User regular
    "I quickly see this as a strategy where if you want someone eliminated you just send them in with Katie." I was thinking the exact same thing.

  • parmeisanparmeisan Registered User regular
    For those asking whether the comics need to be funny or not, I was recently reading an interview with IGN where Mike talked a bit about this very thing:
    IGN: What qualifications or experience were you looking for in the contestants for the show? Was it based on artistic skill, past work, personality, or maybe all of the above?

    Krahulik:
    I was focused on picking quality artists who were also funny – their work had to be funny – and Jerry [Holkins] was more focused on finding clever writers; the art to him was secondary. But together, we were able to pick a group of people that had really good skill sets across the board.
    and
    IGN: So how did you approach the judging of the comics? What’s the basis of elimination on the show?

    Krahulik
    : Originally, that was probably the part that made me the most nervous. I mean, judging someone is fun on the Internet, but judging them in person is difficult! [laughs] I think it comes down to the same thing again, where Jerry and I are looking for two different things. When we agree on something, that means it’s probably got the best of both, right?

    We were definitely looking for a talented artist and a clever writer, but the thing that made the winners stay and the losers go is usually just what made us laugh. Nine times out of ten, if you can get us laughing, that’s what we’re looking for.
    Now, whether the artists knew that or not is a different question...

  • zerzhulzerzhul Registered User, Moderator mod
    It was pretty fantastic getting to see this episode in the Strip Search panel at PAX. Thanks to all the artists that made it!

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    LesStewart
  • tbugtbug Registered User regular
    Which of the Artists were there?

  • ahdokahdok Figment of your imagination Registered User regular
    I would say that for it to be a "comic" it should usually have a joke, hence the word comic. This (and the stigma associate with reading those dang devil comic books) is probably why a lot of people switched to calling stuff like Maus and Persepolis graphic novels.
    But then comic books are usually more about adventures and improbably anatomy than being funny, and I have no idea how to finish the analogy
    comic book : comic strip :: graphic novel : ?
    Graphic page? drawn not funny but still good thing conveying some kind of story?
    Probably best I stay away from nomenclature.

    The catch-all term that I've seen (Thanks! Scott McCloud!) is "Sequental Art"

    http://www.socksandpuppets.com for comics, art and other junk.
  • JermsJerms Registered User regular
    ahdok wrote: »
    The catch-all term that I've seen (Thanks! Scott McCloud! Will Eisner) is "Sequential Art"

    ;)

    Cambiata
  • myndzimyndzi Registered User new member
    It seems like the show has hit a good stride. I suppose this isn't 'reality tv' as we've come to know it, but much prefer to see a bunch of cool people getting along and having a good time over stupid drama any day. I really like that "The Creators" take the time after elimination to pow-wow with the loser and build him/her up a bit after having gone through all that. Good show.

  • adanzepedaadanzepeda Registered User regular
    Were Mike and Jerry doing a Mr. Bean bit?

  • DVGDVG Registered User regular
    myndzi wrote: »
    It seems like the show has hit a good stride. I suppose this isn't 'reality tv' as we've come to know it, but much prefer to see a bunch of cool people getting along and having a good time over stupid drama any day. I really like that "The Creators" take the time after elimination to pow-wow with the loser and build him/her up a bit after having gone through all that. Good show.

    They said during the Q&A at PAX that it wasn't part of the show as planned. They were just standing outside the car while Alex was being interviewed and spur of the moment decided to jump in.

    Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
  • eiabocaeiaboca Registered User new member
    I really like Katie, but I loved Ty's strip! I guess I'm in the minority, though. If you're in a time you have to be in a place! Duh! :P

    Also, people who make fun of his speech are just fucking jerks.

  • EladynEladyn Registered User new member
    Too bad, I liked Ty's strip better than Katie's. Definitely could've been better, but I love the idea, and I like the way he did it. Also, Ty is pretty cute.

  • Sharp10rSharp10r Registered User regular
    Ok, I really want to get Ty's comic...am I missing something? I know they said "high concept" so I'm feeling a bit low. Anyone in-the-know what to explain it?

  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    I've realized I dislike the comic not because I dislike the joke... but because it's a joke with a false premise that closely resembles a joke I WOULD really like.

    The reason someone asks "Or WHEN are we?" (using the more common phrasing) it's to bring up the idea that they have moved in time but not moved in space. So if you departed on your trip from Seattle, WA, and got off in a completely different looking place, you could be displaced in space, or time, or both.

    So it is kind of a valid question. I think the weird argument they have at the end even further muddies the joke.

    The joke he was trying for was something like this (overly explained and overly texty for clarity).

    "I have no idea where we are."
    "Or WHEN we are!?"
    "Yeah, our time machine malfunctioned and we're lost in the past. That doesn't change the fact that we're also lost in that we don't know where we are... like... longitudinally."
    "Ok, fine. AND when we are!"
    "That doesn't have the same punch."
    "It's not meant to be clever, I honestly don't know when we are."
    "Neither do I."
    "Well you asked where we are, and I obviously don't know that either."
    "So we're double lost, and by asking each other for help, we're basically asking the only people guaranteed to know neither where or when we are."
    "I... guess so."

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  • Blackie62Blackie62 Registered User regular
    Kathleen and her scissors win this episode.

  • wormspeakerwormspeaker Objectively Terrible Registered User regular
    "You look really stable." Stable is not how I would characterize Ty under pressure.

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