Are they planning to add trading between players at all? I can't seem to find any details about that...
They have more or less confirmed that they never intend to do that. The crafting component is supposed to help do that, while avoiding some bad consequences they don't want.
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
so long as its f2p trading will never happen, cause there are too many other bad side effects
I got a ysera in a pack and I'm not sure it's worth using in any deck
like sometimes you get a power overwhelming, sometimes you get a free flame strike
I don't have a full list of dream cards or anything, but I had Ysera pegged as one of the best legendaries. Card advantage is kind of a huge deal (even if it's someone else's cards), and she's pretty expensive to kill with 12 health. And no crippling downside, like most other legendaries have.
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
it's just that she's 9 mana with no immediate effect
I think she could work in a controllish deck maybe
Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
edited August 2013
oh yeah her cards are a 0 mana power overwhelming, a 5 mana 5 damage hellfire that doesn't hit ysera, a 4 mana 7/6, and a 3 mana 3/5 hexproof, 0 mana sap
If you have enough bots, the prices on everything converge toward zero and all cards effectively become common. If the game is fun once you get past the positive feedback loop of collecting cards, it shouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure that's the case just yet though.
People buy packs. People sell individual cards. You use in-game currency or you use real life currency.
In-game currency gets run by botters, prices of individual cards are set by them and "gold farmers". Or you could trade real money to buy cheap gold to buy packs with the gold that is going to be cheaper than buying it with real money thanks to the farmers and botters. System spirals out of control and you get the RMAH 2.0. Blizz has already admitted the mistake publicly and by not including it in their new IP, Hearthstone, they have reinforced that notion.
The Hatconomy has done a decent job of making sure that if you want something there's a pretty solid chance you can get it without having to wait for it to random drop.
People buy packs. People sell individual cards. You use in-game currency or you use real life currency.
In-game currency gets run by botters, prices of individual cards are set by them and "gold farmers". Or you could trade real money to buy cheap gold to buy packs with the gold that is going to be cheaper than buying it with real money thanks to the farmers and botters. System spirals out of control and you get the RMAH 2.0. Blizz has already admitted the mistake publicly and by not including it in their new IP, Hearthstone, they have reinforced that notion.
Except this seems more to confirm that you've never played D3.
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Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
er, I think I know the most about d3 out of anyone on the forum
your argument is incoherent and off topic so I'm just gonna not
I am unfamiliar with the diablo system, but what keeps the Hatconomy stable is that you can always buy the item directly from valve. Individual item prices on the trade market will vary, but will always cap out somewhere near the Valve Store price equivalent.
There is always the theoretical cap where it'd be cheaper to buy 20,000 boosters and take your chances than to pay 20,000 for a card, but I assume we're just saying that trading + renewable in-game currency will make prices uncomfortably high for average non-botting players. The answer to that is most likely Blizzard offering individual cards themselves at the high end of reasonable, say $60 for a legendary. That makes the market trading price peak around $60, and all trading takes place between 0- that cap.
Honestly the real gamesaver is that no matter what, TF2 is a bad way to make money. The margins are just too small. If you operate a botnet large enough to be profitable based on in-game currency alone you'd be much better off doing basically anything else; bitcoin mining, for example.
Grandmaster coin flippers all up ins. The reason trading doesn't exist is because there are several bonus gold achievements for new accounts (unlock all heroes, beat all AI on expert, get to level 10 on a hero, get all heroes to level 10, get 100 wins, etc.) that make acquiring new packs on a new account much easier. In a box price environment this wouldn't matter, but as free to play, to promote sales of their boosters they don't allow you to just farm easily for cards on new accounts and trade them to your main.
arena has very little to do with skill, it's 30 coin flips followed by 9 coin flips
I guess Trump and Kripp are just *really* good at winning coin flips then.
To be fair, Kripp did a "ALL IN" arena run, where he polled twitch chat for which hero, and then which column to pick. He got Druid, and Right Column. And he went 7-3 I think with it. Literally only picking the cards in the right column.
Hey you guys. So I've been in the beta for a couple of days, and a friend on Facebook asked me how it was different to MTG, and I ended up writing a diatribe on it that might help satiate the needs of those who the Blizzard beta robots have not smiled kindly upon yet.
Spoiler'd for length.
The changes actually make sense, but only in the context of a digital game.
One by one:
* No colors: colors is replaced by classes. There are some cards that can only be played by a certain class. The rest are neutral that can be played by both. This simplifies the color system. Mage is going to be a classic red burn deck. Paladin is a weenie deck. You can *sorta* splash with good neutral cards, but you can't deviate too far (something like a life drain spell is always going to be a Warlock card). I get why they did this, but my worry is that you could reach a point where it's clear that Mage will usually trump a Paladin deck or something.
* No counters: Not exactly true, Hearthstone has "secrets" which you place down, and activate as soon as they are valid. One secret is a Counterspell, which will nullify the next spell. The trick is knowing when the place the secret. It's only 1 mana, so it's cheap all the time, but you really want to hold onto it in the end game when it can really hurt. Unfortunately, there aren't enough secrets, so players are working around them. One of them is "deal equal damage taken by your hero to the opponent", so players will now always order their attacks from weakest to strongest when a secret is on the board, in order to try and clear that out. I think this might be intentional by Blizzard so that it changes player strategy, but it just seems a little pointless as it's so obvious, and there's no downside to playing that way. May as well just do it all the time, even if there is no secret out.
* Auto-ramping mana: I thought I would hate this, but it's OK, because of...
* Attacker chooses targets: The major difference about Hearthstone is attacker chooses targets, and minions take permadamage, it doesn't clear out after the round. The reason mana is so important in Magic is if you scale up the curve quickly and take out your bombs, you can just methodically clear the board with no danger. Hearthstone always forces you to decide whether you want to go for minions or go for the hero. When you're attacking, a large number of weenies can take down a bomb card. So what you're actually strategizing about with the mana curve is not "how do I get up it faster" but "what is the most efficient use of my mana at each level", often a better play is to drop two 3 mana cards than one 6 mana card. To help protect you, cards can have "Taunt" which forces them to be attacked and killed before any other card. I really like taunt cards, and most of my minions have them. It's not clear to me that's a great strat yet, but it keeps me alive long enough to think things through.
One thing I have noticed is that Hearthstone seems to highly prioritize minion clearing, and although I need to crunch the numbers to see why this is, I have suspicions. Going for the hero over minions usually ends up badly. My guess is that when the other player gets minions out on the board, it begins to snowball. Many cards give other cards +1/+1 or something. Each time they drop one they're just generally adding to their hitting power for each turn, so what was once a piddly 3 damage turns into 10 in two more turns, and you can't recover from that. If they're doing 10 damage, anytime you drop a Taunt card they can clear it without real penalty, then keep hitting you (essentially it resolves the same way as if all cards had Trample in MTG). What's interesting is that this seems to mean that weenie decks are very powerful if you can get minions out quickly enough and they have no board clear. There's a card which has 5 health on it. Each turn it removes one health and spawns a 1/1 imp. I was playing this in a Paladin deck which can also spawn a 1/1 soldier for two mana. You can quickly swarm the board. Every game I've played where the imp spawner comes out I storm it, every game where it didn't I lost.
One other thing I really like is The Arena system, which is like booster draft, so you get around Pay to Win issues. It costs $2 to play (or 150 in game gold, takes about two days to get). It then offers you three random champs, so you can't just play your favorite. Then it offers three cards at a time until you've finished your 30 card deck. It tries to matchmake you with others of your skill level, then you fight out your decks. You can lose three times. The more you win, the better the prize you'll get. I only one two times with my rubbish deck I built, and it gave me a booster pack and some disenchant powder, and booster packs are already $2 anyway, so it is the much better way to use your money (unless you go 0/3 I heard). I thought it was really fun, and a good way of skirting around Pay to Win. Matchmaking does a good job too, I think I'm about 50/50, so even if you do Pay to Win, you'll quickly be matched against people who've done the same.
It also has a quests system to give you objectives to do each day, so you feel progression just for playing over and over. They've also been smart and not turned on chat, so all you can do is little emotes like "Hello" and "Well played". The only negative one is "Threaten" but I've never seen anyone do that. I usually offer a "Sorry" and "Well played" before I kill them. It creates the feeling of a positive community, even if everyone is raging secretly. Fact is, games go quickly enough that you can shrug off a weak loss and move on. No drinking required!
Overall, I think they've made a better *digital* card game than Magic. It's quick, it's fun, but it's not sacrificing strategy when it pushes simplicity. It would be a pain to operate in paper form because you'd need a lot of counters, but it's theoretically doable. Because of all the counters required, MTG is still the better paper game.
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They have more or less confirmed that they never intend to do that. The crafting component is supposed to help do that, while avoiding some bad consequences they don't want.
Step 1: Go back in time
Step 2: Play a game really well or funnily
Step 3: Acquire a massive following of people who watch you stream the game you're good at
Step 4: Beta
Step 5: Be the best hype train Blizzard has ever brilliantly pulled out of the station
That's right. I had a beta invite and didn't know or care.
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I kept saying I should start that twitch channel. . .
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I don't have a full list of dream cards or anything, but I had Ysera pegged as one of the best legendaries. Card advantage is kind of a huge deal (even if it's someone else's cards), and she's pretty expensive to kill with 12 health. And no crippling downside, like most other legendaries have.
I think she could work in a controllish deck maybe
yes that was what i meant. not sure why i thought it was a ring.
edit:
i don't doubt that it will never happen, but is the big concern that botting would devalue the cards?
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Well, the cards have zero value without trading so it's hard to say that botting would devalue them...
People buy packs. People sell individual cards. You use in-game currency or you use real life currency.
In-game currency gets run by botters, prices of individual cards are set by them and "gold farmers". Or you could trade real money to buy cheap gold to buy packs with the gold that is going to be cheaper than buying it with real money thanks to the farmers and botters. System spirals out of control and you get the RMAH 2.0. Blizz has already admitted the mistake publicly and by not including it in their new IP, Hearthstone, they have reinforced that notion.
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Except this seems more to confirm that you've never played D3.
your argument is incoherent and off topic so I'm just gonna not
There is always the theoretical cap where it'd be cheaper to buy 20,000 boosters and take your chances than to pay 20,000 for a card, but I assume we're just saying that trading + renewable in-game currency will make prices uncomfortably high for average non-botting players. The answer to that is most likely Blizzard offering individual cards themselves at the high end of reasonable, say $60 for a legendary. That makes the market trading price peak around $60, and all trading takes place between 0- that cap.
Honestly the real gamesaver is that no matter what, TF2 is a bad way to make money. The margins are just too small. If you operate a botnet large enough to be profitable based on in-game currency alone you'd be much better off doing basically anything else; bitcoin mining, for example.
3DS: 0447-9966-6178
So why do you think Blizzard disallowed player trading in Hearthstone?
You could make infinte free accounts and essentially trade yourself all the cards forever
I guess Trump and Kripp are just *really* good at winning coin flips then.
Well, the game is based on World of Warcraft.
(I haven't played WoW in years. My apologies if the Rogue OP joke is now oudated.)
Edit: For the curious, here are all the achievements so far: http://2p.com/1511480_1/Earning-Gold-in-Hearthstone-Quests-and-Dailies.htm
http://www.hearthpwn.com/forge
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Fireball the loot hoarder. He gets to draw the card anyway - so do you want him to draw the card and then also do 2 damage or just draw the card?
And now he gained extra CA because you let him kill your guy with it.
FjgfidjdKgdfIGdfghdf.gmnf/d
GIVE ME CONTROL
To be fair, Kripp did a "ALL IN" arena run, where he polled twitch chat for which hero, and then which column to pick. He got Druid, and Right Column. And he went 7-3 I think with it. Literally only picking the cards in the right column.
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I had been watching him too, but todays video was absolutely infuriating.
Also, he talks too much.
The plays.
I've been shouting at my screen to no avail.
it is important to remember that that is a strong part of becoming a "talks over video games" famous person
because they'll make more money this way
it's like if they made all D3 items bind-on-pickup and then had an auction house, except all the auctions were real money and owned by Blizzard
Spoiler'd for length.
One by one:
* No colors: colors is replaced by classes. There are some cards that can only be played by a certain class. The rest are neutral that can be played by both. This simplifies the color system. Mage is going to be a classic red burn deck. Paladin is a weenie deck. You can *sorta* splash with good neutral cards, but you can't deviate too far (something like a life drain spell is always going to be a Warlock card). I get why they did this, but my worry is that you could reach a point where it's clear that Mage will usually trump a Paladin deck or something.
* No counters: Not exactly true, Hearthstone has "secrets" which you place down, and activate as soon as they are valid. One secret is a Counterspell, which will nullify the next spell. The trick is knowing when the place the secret. It's only 1 mana, so it's cheap all the time, but you really want to hold onto it in the end game when it can really hurt. Unfortunately, there aren't enough secrets, so players are working around them. One of them is "deal equal damage taken by your hero to the opponent", so players will now always order their attacks from weakest to strongest when a secret is on the board, in order to try and clear that out. I think this might be intentional by Blizzard so that it changes player strategy, but it just seems a little pointless as it's so obvious, and there's no downside to playing that way. May as well just do it all the time, even if there is no secret out.
* Auto-ramping mana: I thought I would hate this, but it's OK, because of...
* Attacker chooses targets: The major difference about Hearthstone is attacker chooses targets, and minions take permadamage, it doesn't clear out after the round. The reason mana is so important in Magic is if you scale up the curve quickly and take out your bombs, you can just methodically clear the board with no danger. Hearthstone always forces you to decide whether you want to go for minions or go for the hero. When you're attacking, a large number of weenies can take down a bomb card. So what you're actually strategizing about with the mana curve is not "how do I get up it faster" but "what is the most efficient use of my mana at each level", often a better play is to drop two 3 mana cards than one 6 mana card. To help protect you, cards can have "Taunt" which forces them to be attacked and killed before any other card. I really like taunt cards, and most of my minions have them. It's not clear to me that's a great strat yet, but it keeps me alive long enough to think things through.
One thing I have noticed is that Hearthstone seems to highly prioritize minion clearing, and although I need to crunch the numbers to see why this is, I have suspicions. Going for the hero over minions usually ends up badly. My guess is that when the other player gets minions out on the board, it begins to snowball. Many cards give other cards +1/+1 or something. Each time they drop one they're just generally adding to their hitting power for each turn, so what was once a piddly 3 damage turns into 10 in two more turns, and you can't recover from that. If they're doing 10 damage, anytime you drop a Taunt card they can clear it without real penalty, then keep hitting you (essentially it resolves the same way as if all cards had Trample in MTG). What's interesting is that this seems to mean that weenie decks are very powerful if you can get minions out quickly enough and they have no board clear. There's a card which has 5 health on it. Each turn it removes one health and spawns a 1/1 imp. I was playing this in a Paladin deck which can also spawn a 1/1 soldier for two mana. You can quickly swarm the board. Every game I've played where the imp spawner comes out I storm it, every game where it didn't I lost.
One other thing I really like is The Arena system, which is like booster draft, so you get around Pay to Win issues. It costs $2 to play (or 150 in game gold, takes about two days to get). It then offers you three random champs, so you can't just play your favorite. Then it offers three cards at a time until you've finished your 30 card deck. It tries to matchmake you with others of your skill level, then you fight out your decks. You can lose three times. The more you win, the better the prize you'll get. I only one two times with my rubbish deck I built, and it gave me a booster pack and some disenchant powder, and booster packs are already $2 anyway, so it is the much better way to use your money (unless you go 0/3 I heard). I thought it was really fun, and a good way of skirting around Pay to Win. Matchmaking does a good job too, I think I'm about 50/50, so even if you do Pay to Win, you'll quickly be matched against people who've done the same.
It also has a quests system to give you objectives to do each day, so you feel progression just for playing over and over. They've also been smart and not turned on chat, so all you can do is little emotes like "Hello" and "Well played". The only negative one is "Threaten" but I've never seen anyone do that. I usually offer a "Sorry" and "Well played" before I kill them. It creates the feeling of a positive community, even if everyone is raging secretly. Fact is, games go quickly enough that you can shrug off a weak loss and move on. No drinking required!
Overall, I think they've made a better *digital* card game than Magic. It's quick, it's fun, but it's not sacrificing strategy when it pushes simplicity. It would be a pain to operate in paper form because you'd need a lot of counters, but it's theoretically doable. Because of all the counters required, MTG is still the better paper game.
Huh?