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[Starcraft 2] THIS THREAD IS DONE! POST IN THE NEW ONE!

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Posts

  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    They specifically made another thread to avoid us though :? . Maybe I'm just being too clannish, sorry.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Welcome to the reason why nerfing cargo space wasn't the way to nerf hellbat drops.

    You need to nerf the fucking healing.

    http://drop.sc/316542

    I scout the drop. I see the drop coming. All of my units are directly underneath it. Nope. two medivacs drop four hellbats on my probe line and kill 10 workers and several army units before going down due to the medivac healing.

    This guy was fucking awful at macro, chose a terrible unit composition, had no micro to speak of, and still gave me a close game due to hellbat drops killing thirty workers over the course of the game.

    Yeah that's Sound's build from GSTL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405574

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    what a fucking joke.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    It should not be possible for a build to do that. If a drop build is scouted and my army is right on top of it when it lands, it should not work anyway.

  • KamiKami Registered User regular
    Kami wrote: »
    Damn, after doing the first lesson of Filter, I'm noticing that my normal builds are coming together a lot better, and while I'm still floating minerals, I know what to do to spend them quicker. Tomorrow I'll do my placements (*GULP*) and start practicing these builds on ladder :o

    Good luck man! I'm right there with you, working through the Filter videos. They rock!

    Awesome! I'll add you up on my Friends list if you want to do some practice and stuff! Kami #112

    As much as I have ladder anxiety, I'm all about playing random 1v1 vs. anyone, no matter the league! Best way for me to get better is to lose a ton to better, more handsome people!

  • mEEksamEEksa Registered User regular
    I am glad that Dhal is not the balance designer at Blizzard.

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    i'll beat you down a few times and offer some advice afterwards if you want

    if you're online now.

  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    Well, after today I'm even on wins and losses and I'm up to 13th in my Silver division. I'm not actually macroing any better, but I'm winning games again. I'm not sure if there was some fluke with my first handful of opponents being abnormally strong or what. Still have to work a lot on my macro and not getting killed by early pressure, though.

    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    so you had a bad day

    welcome to what we call

    starcraft

  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    i once went 17-0 on a night of playing starcraft and then the very next night 0-11.

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    Dhal, would targeting the Medivacs work better?

    (I agree with your thoughts, just curious)

    Battle.net ID: kime#1822
    3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
    Steam profile
  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    Is something like 15 gas reactor Hellion a safe opener in TvT? I'm trying to figure out something Reaper-proof without having to build Reapers myself, as I've never liked them.

    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    Welcome to the reason why nerfing cargo space wasn't the way to nerf hellbat drops.

    You need to nerf the fucking healing.

    http://drop.sc/316542

    I scout the drop. I see the drop coming. All of my units are directly underneath it. Nope. two medivacs drop four hellbats on my probe line and kill 10 workers and several army units before going down due to the medivac healing.

    This guy was fucking awful at macro, chose a terrible unit composition, had no micro to speak of, and still gave me a close game due to hellbat drops killing thirty workers over the course of the game.

    Interesting game. Do you always play so passively?


    Steam and CFN: Enexemander
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    kime wrote: »
    Dhal, would targeting the Medivacs work better?

    (I agree with your thoughts, just curious)

    that's what I did do.

  • mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    Is there other diamonds for me to fight in the bronze to diamond league? Cause, like, it'll be unfair if I play someone lower than diamond. Even with my switched race.

    I have no problems with fighting the old guard in the masters league. i'll fight you pansies right in your face.

    ByalIX8.png
    B.net: Kusanku
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited April 2013
    You can't play Protoss any other way against a meching Terran on two or three bases.

    Dhalphir on
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    Is something like 15 gas reactor Hellion a safe opener in TvT? I'm trying to figure out something Reaper-proof without having to build Reapers myself, as I've never liked them.

    It depends on how many reapers he builds. If he's just doing 1 to 3 with an FE then you'll be fine with a hellion expand. If he's dropping 2-3 barracks and pumping them you'll need a siege tank.

    If you want to be safe, I'd say 13 gas 1-1-1 is the best answer because of the versatility it gives you, but you admittedly also need to play with it a bit to learn how to use that versatility. If he goes for a rax expand you can do a fast hellion drop or go for banshees; if he opts for light harass you have access to vikings against banshees and drops; and if he's allining then you can grab a siege tank. TvT is a somewhat unique matchup in the sense that almost anything can work, and no one opener reigns supreme.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    @Kambing

    Yeah I really don't think the "bronze to diamond" bracket is fair in any way.
    The skill gap is way too huge.

    I say Diamond / Masters / GM be one bracket, and bronze to Plat another.

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
    mastman
  • HeartlashHeartlash Registered User regular
    mastman wrote: »
    Is there other diamonds for me to fight in the bronze to diamond league? Cause, like, it'll be unfair if I play someone lower than diamond. Even with my switched race.

    I have no problems with fighting the old guard in the masters league. i'll fight you pansies right in your face.

    You can fight me. I've always been in diamond.

    I too am fine with breaking it down differently, though. It probably makes the most sense to see how many people sign up and what the distribution is like.

    My indie mobile gaming studio: Elder Aeons
    Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited April 2013
    none of the new players who are in bronze or silver who choose to participate are going to be going into this tournament with any expectation of winning, they just want to have some fun, maybe win a game or two, and then settle in to watch some others play too.

    the bronze to platinum gap is still very significant, and I think the low diamond to masters gap is a bit unfair as there isn't that many low diamonds.

    i mean, if we look at our diamond players, yeah Jeff might be able to give the masters league players a run for their money, but for the most part, the people who are competitive with our Master league players are already in Masters.

    I don't particularly want to be matched up against PantsB or Kafu in my first round and knock them out of the tournament - whereas I think some of our platinums like Kusanku could have some really awesome matches with Pants or the other similar skill level players.

    Dhalphir on
    Kambing
  • mastmanmastman Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    none of the new players who are in bronze or silver who choose to participate are going to be going into this tournament with any expectation of winning, they just want to have some fun, maybe win a game or two, and then settle in to watch some others play too.

    I guess that makes sense.

    mastman on
    ByalIX8.png
    B.net: Kusanku
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    Ok, here's a compromise.

    The bracket split remains

    Bronze->Diamond
    but then we add
    Diamond/Masters

    as the top bracket

    so Diamond players can choose what they want to do

  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    Yilias wrote: »
    Wyvern wrote: »
    Is something like 15 gas reactor Hellion a safe opener in TvT? I'm trying to figure out something Reaper-proof without having to build Reapers myself, as I've never liked them.

    It depends on how many reapers he builds. If he's just doing 1 to 3 with an FE then you'll be fine with a hellion expand. If he's dropping 2-3 barracks and pumping them you'll need a siege tank.

    If you want to be safe, I'd say 13 gas 1-1-1 is the best answer because of the versatility it gives you, but you admittedly also need to play with it a bit to learn how to use that versatility. If he goes for a rax expand you can do a fast hellion drop or go for banshees; if he opts for light harass you have access to vikings against banshees and drops; and if he's allining then you can grab a siege tank. TvT is a somewhat unique matchup in the sense that almost anything can work, and no one opener reigns supreme.
    What would that look like, roughly? I haven't done a late-expanding 1/1/1 in like two years, so I'm not exactly familiar with the rhythm anymore.

    Also I haven't seen a single Banshee from anyone except me yet, so I'm not really worried about defending against those yet. The only early-game thing I'm really worried about so far is multi-rax reaper. Anything else that kills me early in TvT (like fast drops or other kinds of non-Reaper pressure) I generally assume is the result of me doing something stupid rather than my build being incorrect.

    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
  • KambingKambing Registered User regular
    MMMig wrote: »
    @Kambing

    Yeah I really don't think the "bronze to diamond" bracket is fair in any way.
    The skill gap is way too huge.

    I say Diamond / Masters / GM be one bracket, and bronze to Plat another.

    We'll see who actually signs up, and I'll make a determination from there. For the diamonds that are at the border, feel free to sign up for whatever bracket you think is appropriate, and I'll adjust as necessary.

    @TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
  • MMMigMMMig Registered User regular
    There's no reason Bronzers should just be auto-demoted to never even having a chance at a tourney.

    That just really tells them fuck you the tourney's not for you.


    I mean, there should be a better approach.


    Every single CSL we've had before has always treated low-level players this way.
    So maybe we can change it up.


    So I say change the bracket wording some, because as soon as a low level player reads that, they won't even want to participate so you've already lost interest.

    l4lGvOw.png
    Witty signature comment goes here...

    wra
  • peacekeeperpeacekeeper AustraliaRegistered User regular
    everyone who wants to play a tourney sign up then work out who plays where

    if you get enough to have separate brackets great, if not you might have to just make do

    MMMig
  • SmasherSmasher Starting to get dizzy Registered User regular
    You might have to just make more workers.

  • VariableVariable Mouth Congress Stroke Me Lady FameRegistered User regular
    signed up for the tourney, got super psyched as I did, logged on to play ladder

    played 1 tvt and figured that's about enough for the next... month or so

    BNet-Vari#1998 | Switch-SW 6960 6688 8388 | Steam | Twitch
    Dhalphir
  • WyvernWyvern Registered User regular
    The only winning strategy I have come up with for late-game TvT so far is "shit macro into floating 3000 gas into mass Starports into suiciding half of my army on purpose to make room for mass Banshee/Battlecruiser". If there's a less dumb way to get past siege tanks I don't know what it is.

    Switch: SW-2431-2728-9604 || 3DS: 0817-4948-1650
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    Yilias wrote: »
    Wyvern wrote: »
    Is something like 15 gas reactor Hellion a safe opener in TvT? I'm trying to figure out something Reaper-proof without having to build Reapers myself, as I've never liked them.

    It depends on how many reapers he builds. If he's just doing 1 to 3 with an FE then you'll be fine with a hellion expand. If he's dropping 2-3 barracks and pumping them you'll need a siege tank.

    If you want to be safe, I'd say 13 gas 1-1-1 is the best answer because of the versatility it gives you, but you admittedly also need to play with it a bit to learn how to use that versatility. If he goes for a rax expand you can do a fast hellion drop or go for banshees; if he opts for light harass you have access to vikings against banshees and drops; and if he's allining then you can grab a siege tank. TvT is a somewhat unique matchup in the sense that almost anything can work, and no one opener reigns supreme.
    What would that look like, roughly? I haven't done a late-expanding 1/1/1 in like two years, so I'm not exactly familiar with the rhythm anymore.

    Also I haven't seen a single Banshee from anyone except me yet, so I'm not really worried about defending against those yet. The only early-game thing I'm really worried about so far is multi-rax reaper. Anything else that kills me early in TvT (like fast drops or other kinds of non-Reaper pressure) I generally assume is the result of me doing something stupid rather than my build being incorrect.

    12 rax > 13 gas > fact at 100 gas > starport when fact finishes. If you want cloak, siege tanks, or hellbats you grab a second gas after the factory.

    And from there you just build whatever you need to do what you want.
    Want a hellion/mine drop? Make a reactor on the rax while making the first two hellions, then swap over for the other two, and make a medivac.
    Want a banshee? Make a tlab on the fact and swap it over to the port when it's finished.
    Want to be greedier against an FE? Cut marines after the first 2 and you can expand about a minute earlier.
    Is he going 1-1-1 too? Vikings and mines are pretty good.

    Oh, and watch that 27 food supply block, I never see it coming.

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Wyvern wrote: »
    The only winning strategy I have come up with for late-game TvT so far is "shit macro into floating 3000 gas into mass Starports into suiciding half of my army on purpose to make room for mass Banshee/Battlecruiser". If there's a less dumb way to get past siege tanks I don't know what it is.

    Once the tank counts get high enough to stalemate movement and the mass turret rings prevent drop harass it's all about BC/raven/viking. BCs beat everything on the ground that shoots up, and vikings beat everything in the air except vikings that have raven back up.

    Nukes are also an option, but they're more difficult to use and harder to force a win with.

    The most famous example of air silliness:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUv2xfUUsiI

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
  • THESPOOKYTHESPOOKY papa! Registered User regular
    Signed up for the tournament! Excited to play against some of you guys.


    Watching this Hellbat Drop GSTL vod, and good lord who are these clowns casting

    d4753b065e9d63cc25203f06160a1cd1.png
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    edited April 2013
    THESPOOKY wrote: »
    Signed up for the tournament! Excited to play against some of you guys.


    Watching this Hellbat Drop GSTL vod, and good lord who are these clowns casting

    i love you

    Dhalphir on
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    GSTL is cast by Wolf (the second most critical caster I have ever heard) and Khaldor (the most Zerg biased caster I have ever heard).

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
  • THESPOOKYTHESPOOKY papa! Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Dhalphir wrote: »
    THESPOOKY wrote: »
    Signed up for the tournament! Excited to play against some of you guys.


    Watching this Hellbat Drop GSTL vod, and good lord who are these clowns casting

    i love you

    <3?

    "He's still on 3 bases, doing the aggression with the all-in!"

    give me the drugs you are on bald man


    E: This isn't the SC2 thread WHAT AM I DOING WHAT DRUGS AM I ON

    MAN IS THE REAL MONSTER

    THESPOOKY on
    d4753b065e9d63cc25203f06160a1cd1.png
  • YiliasYilias Registered User regular
    Out of all the games to swap the thread title with, we would get LoL 8->

    Steam - BNet: Yilias #1224 - Riot: Yilias #moc
    kedinik
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    Oh god I'm so confused.

    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
  • THESPOOKYTHESPOOKY papa! Registered User regular
    oh I see

    I see

    d4753b065e9d63cc25203f06160a1cd1.png
  • DhalphirDhalphir don't you open that trapdoor you're a fool if you dareRegistered User regular
    its actually 2pm on april fools, I'm pretty sure fooling is not allowed past lunchtime

    this should not be happening in australia

    Lorahalo
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    It's 4PM here, I thought I'd escaped.

    I have a podcast about Digimon called the Digital Moncast, on Audio Entropy.
This discussion has been closed.