You guys are being fucking ridiculous. If any of those suggested changes made it though, widow mines would be shit. Shitter than hydras in WoL.
Also, only unburrowed widow mines have lower attack priority. Burrowed ones have an attack priority of 20.
There does need to be some change, I think. They are resilient, have a huge damage output, cheap, etc...
It's still a little early, but I think there's some reason why almost every Terran in WCS is making Widow Mines (vZ, at least), and why those mines always seem so effective.
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Hellbats are kind of strong too. I think someone said they beat stalkers with equal costs? That's... not right...
They beat unmicro'd stalkers for cost when you reach a certain threshold. It's the splash damage. However, they never beat micro'd stalkers, as they have a shorter range than a stalker does.
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
You guys are being fucking ridiculous. If any of those suggested changes made it though, widow mines would be shit. Shitter than hydras in WoL.
Also, only unburrowed widow mines have lower attack priority. Burrowed ones have an attack priority of 20.
You're saying that like that makes mines not as good as we're making them out to be. You only need the lower target priority when they're unburrowed. When they're burrowed you want things running towards them anyway.
You know what? Give swarm hosts low target priority when they're unburrowed. I mean.. same concept, isn't it?
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Hellbats are kind of strong too. I think someone said they beat stalkers with equal costs? That's... not right...
They beat unmicro'd stalkers for cost when you reach a certain threshold. It's the splash damage. However, they never beat micro'd stalkers, as they have a shorter range than a stalker does.
no threshold, they just flat out win at all army sizes.
Hellbats are kind of strong too. I think someone said they beat stalkers with equal costs? That's... not right...
They beat unmicro'd stalkers for cost when you reach a certain threshold. It's the splash damage. However, they never beat micro'd stalkers, as they have a shorter range than a stalker does.
no threshold, they just flat out win at all army sizes.
ah, I thought you needed like 4 of them. I'm surprised that they beat them one on one.
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Hellbats are kind of strong too. I think someone said they beat stalkers with equal costs? That's... not right...
They beat unmicro'd stalkers for cost when you reach a certain threshold. It's the splash damage. However, they never beat micro'd stalkers, as they have a shorter range than a stalker does.
no threshold, they just flat out win at all army sizes.
ah, I thought you needed like 4 of them. I'm surprised that they beat them one on one.
I think that one to one the stalker survives with about 5 health left, or something like that. That's the only time stalkers trade supply-even with them in a stand-up fight. Any amount of splash damage tips the balance.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
also, the fact that micro changes things is irrelevant
i can count on one hand the amount of times in PvT I have had the opportunity to micro stalkers against hellbats in order to be more efficient against them.
You guys are being fucking ridiculous. If any of those suggested changes made it though, widow mines would be shit. Shitter than hydras in WoL.
Also, only unburrowed widow mines have lower attack priority. Burrowed ones have an attack priority of 20.
There does need to be some change, I think. They are resilient, have a huge damage output, cheap, etc...
It's still a little early, but I think there's some reason why almost every Terran in WCS is making Widow Mines (vZ, at least), and why those mines always seem so effective.
widow mines are great and I love them to death when I play as terran once in a blue moon, but they need SOME kind of tradeoff. Catching un-sieged tanks is a tradeoff for sieged tanks being strong.
the current "downside" is that splash hits your own units, too, but I'm not sure that is big enough a downside. Maybe have them burrow slower until some later upgrade?
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
the downside seems fine to me
lings running into marines and mines will end up taking a ton of marines with them.
if anything, mines seem too weak against zerg to replace a siege tank in the tank/marine composition.
Is that why every professional TvZ is nothing but bio/mine?
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited April 2013
because its still early days.
watching a lot of these TvZs I see a ling bling army run directly over 8-10 burrowed mines and still kill the entire marine army behind it.
it's not really arguable that Zerg was absurdly strong in ZvT in WoL near the end - and they got more power in HotS with the ridiculousness of blinding cloud viper and the new ultralisk. The mine and hellbat don't seem any more ridiculous, and I for one want a game where everything is OP.
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It still bothers me to see widow mines waddle into the middle of a bunch of lings, burrow faster than lings can kill them, and then blow up every single ling.
right?
it's like, you're a pro, pull back your damn lings
It still bothers me to see widow mines waddle into the middle of a bunch of lings, burrow faster than lings can kill them, and then blow up every single ling.
right?
it's like, you're a pro, pull back your damn lings
!!!
Damn your terran eyes.
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
+2
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I think HOTS is just so volatile right now that a lot of unpredictable factors can lead to a loss despite superior mechanics. NA players are crafty enough to take a few games off more seasoned Koreans/Europeans/whathaveyou.
It still bothers me to see widow mines waddle into the middle of a bunch of lings, burrow faster than lings can kill them, and then blow up every single ling.
right?
it's like, you're a pro, pull back your damn lings
I'm in the middle of writing a piece about widow mines TvZ. I think their risk/reward relationship is tilted slightly too close to reward. Their single shot damage potential is higher than any other unit in the game, and that includes both straight damage AND cost-focused damage.
I think HOTS is just so volatile right now that a lot of unpredictable factors can lead to a loss despite superior mechanics. NA players are crafty enough to take a few games off more seasoned Koreans/Europeans/whathaveyou.
Maybe NA players are the big buckets of fail that we've come to think of them as.
I mean, we have Kambing at the very least.
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
The core of my gripe is that the splash is enough to kill banelings. If it left them super low (requiring one hit to kill or something) that would make a lot more sense. As it stands, the consequences of a single good hit are just too high.
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There does need to be some change, I think. They are resilient, have a huge damage output, cheap, etc...
It's still a little early, but I think there's some reason why almost every Terran in WCS is making Widow Mines (vZ, at least), and why those mines always seem so effective.
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Nerf hellbats!
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Hellbats are kind of strong too. I think someone said they beat stalkers with equal costs? That's... not right...
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They beat everything except immortals at equal cost I think
And medivacs can heal them
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They beat unmicro'd stalkers for cost when you reach a certain threshold. It's the splash damage. However, they never beat micro'd stalkers, as they have a shorter range than a stalker does.
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
You know what? Give swarm hosts low target priority when they're unburrowed. I mean.. same concept, isn't it?
nope they beat immortals for cost too
the only two protoss ground units they don't slaughter for cost are archons and colossi, which only barely beat them.
no threshold, they just flat out win at all army sizes.
ah, I thought you needed like 4 of them. I'm surprised that they beat them one on one.
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
I think that one to one the stalker survives with about 5 health left, or something like that. That's the only time stalkers trade supply-even with them in a stand-up fight. Any amount of splash damage tips the balance.
i can count on one hand the amount of times in PvT I have had the opportunity to micro stalkers against hellbats in order to be more efficient against them.
then cut the image down to fit.
widow mines are great and I love them to death when I play as terran once in a blue moon, but they need SOME kind of tradeoff. Catching un-sieged tanks is a tradeoff for sieged tanks being strong.
the current "downside" is that splash hits your own units, too, but I'm not sure that is big enough a downside. Maybe have them burrow slower until some later upgrade?
lings running into marines and mines will end up taking a ton of marines with them.
if anything, mines seem too weak against zerg to replace a siege tank in the tank/marine composition.
watching a lot of these TvZs I see a ling bling army run directly over 8-10 burrowed mines and still kill the entire marine army behind it.
it's not really arguable that Zerg was absurdly strong in ZvT in WoL near the end - and they got more power in HotS with the ridiculousness of blinding cloud viper and the new ultralisk. The mine and hellbat don't seem any more ridiculous, and I for one want a game where everything is OP.
that drunkenboi vs mya game just now
doubled reactored hellion all scv-pull in all in
I feel sick.
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wra
I shouted NO THE DRONES NOOOOO at least twice.
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Also, how did I miss the CSL signups? What have I become?
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
it's like, you're a pro, pull back your damn lings
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
!!!
Damn your terran eyes.
i'm sure we'll have at least 1 or 2 no-shows jeff.
i even batsignalled you.
its gotta be latency, right?
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
I'm in the middle of writing a piece about widow mines TvZ. I think their risk/reward relationship is tilted slightly too close to reward. Their single shot damage potential is higher than any other unit in the game, and that includes both straight damage AND cost-focused damage.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
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Maybe NA players are the big buckets of fail that we've come to think of them as.
I mean, we have Kambing at the very least.
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
they see me rollin'
they hatin
I would be 100% OK with this and would probably close the book on bitchin' about widow mines
As it is, they almost never hit anything twice but that one hit can ruin your day
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Is there a link where I can watch it? I really just want to see my friend cast!
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why do I ever forget to close it
because you know, for a fact, that i'm lurking in there
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