I can provide some anecdotal comments on the "anti-sub" group; at least, my perspective as someone that's loathe to sub again.
WoW was my first MMO; EQ didn't interest me, and that was the only MMO I'd encountered before WoW. Suddenly, everyone I know was telling me that Blizzard was about to have an open beta for a new Warcraft online game, and I was totally fucking there. So I gave it a whirl, and ended up grabbing a copy a week after launch; I had to wait a week for pay day, iirc.
By the time I had installed and logged on, my friends were already leveled into their 40s; we NEVER ended up playing together. I spent the next several years bouncing around between servers and alt characters, really enjoying the depth of the world created, but never fully embracing the MMO-style gameplay (1,2,3,3,3,4,1,2...) and having a real hard time ever making an long-lasting friendships due to my always dumping the current to try something new. And through my dissatisfaction, I kept on playing, feeling that I'd already spent god knows how much on subscription fees that I didn't feel I'd gotten value out of yet, so I kept on playing, trying to justify my subscription, both current and past payments, while being unable to really devote enough time or focus to do much other than replay the same early level content over and over.
I eventually settled into an RP server, found some people I could RP with regardless of my level, and at some point during TBC, actually hit level cap.
I was ecstatic; years after picking up this game, I could finally play with my friends, and do the shit they talked about all the time.
But schedules didn't ever connect; I think I did one level 80 dungeon that I was a bit undergeared for, and maxed out my mining/engineering to build a helicopter, took a screenshot in it... and unsubscribed.
I finally felt like I'd "won". That I'd done all I could ever do in that game. Several years, hundreds of dollars, to get one RP character to level cap and a flying machine.
I've poked at it a bit every now and then, a free week here and there, and just can't really get back into it; I've got nothing that ties me to it, and all that classic, old-feel content is long gone. I can't get immersed in the world the way I could at launch, and as such, I feel no desire to subscribe again.
Which brings us to today, and Wildstar. Which looks amazing, and knowing that they're catering a career path to exploring (wall walkin' 4 lyfe), it's really, really tempting. But I still remember that feeling; that feeling of constantly being dissatisfied with the gameplay, with the feelings of obligation that the recurring payment instilled in me, the stress of wanting to squeeze every drop of "value" from the product while never being able to devote any consistent time or schedule to it...
Yeah.
I'm pumped, but I'm cautious. WoW ruined subs for me; it will take something incredible to get past the wall that WoW built.
I just think you're better off charging a subscription fee and putting all your efforts into making such a good game, that the now massive population of people who play MMOs(thanks in no small part to WoW) want to pay for your game.
People are more used to paying more for content after buying a base game now than ever. You can't buy a game any more without expecting to have DLC come out for it. Even FPS games and stuff are copying subscription models to sell people season passes for access to their DLC, which is basically just copying the MMO model except they're calling it DLC instead of content patches.
I hope I don't offend anyone here, as I can see the discussion is quite grand, but...
When I go to this thread and see "32 new posts" I expect to see 32 new posts about Wildstar. Not 32 new posts regarding game models, subscription versus F2P, cash shop or not, and so forth. I get all excited to see what the developers are coming up with, and then get disappointed.
I mean, isn't there a thread for that? Because to me, this line of discussion shouldn't be in a thread dedicated to one game.
And just to stay on topic, I do hope we see the last couple races soon and a bit more on the other paths they've teased.
I hope I don't offend anyone here, as I can see the discussion is quite grand, but...
When I go to this thread and see "32 new posts" I expect to see 32 new posts about Wildstar. Not 32 new posts regarding game models, subscription versus F2P, cash shop or not, and so forth. I get all excited to see what the developers are coming up with, and then get disappointed.
I mean, isn't there a thread for that? Because to me, this line of discussion shouldn't be in a thread dedicated to one game.
And just to stay on topic, I do hope we see the last couple races soon and a bit more on the other paths they've teased.
I would say that it is indeed relevant. I mean there would have been no discussion here today if not for this! And no, there is not a thread for this discussion so this is where it is happening. You cannot enter the Game Industry thread and just bring up something like this to discuss.
Houn, your problem is less about the payment model itself and more about your perception of what you need to get out of the game. I totally get where you're coming from, and in the past, I fell into the same trap myself, where I let the fact that I was paying for a subscription game determine how much I played, etc. After all, how could I subscribe to a game and not make it worth my money by logging in to play?
There came a point when I finally realized the subscription has to be treated differently. I had to simply decide if it was worth it for me to subscribe whether or not I was going to play it a bunch. I started subbing to WoW for 6 months at a time for the slight discount. Then, I just played WoW whenever I felt like it. Sometimes i was playing it a bunch, sometimes I didn't play for a month while I played other games.
The only relevant questions are really "Do I enjoy playing this game a lot regardless of the fee?" If no, you don't play it. If yes, then "Is the subscription something I'm comfortable paying for what I think I'll get out of it?"
Houn, your problem is less about the payment model itself and more about your perception of what you need to get out of the game. I totally get where you're coming from, and in the past, I fell into the same trap myself, where I let the fact that I was paying for a subscription game determine how much I played, etc. After all, how could I subscribe to a game and not make it worth my money by logging in to play?
There came a point when I finally realized the subscription has to be treated differently. I had to simply decide if it was worth it for me to subscribe whether or not I was going to play it a bunch. I started subbing to WoW for 6 months at a time for the slight discount. Then, I just played WoW whenever I felt like it. Sometimes i was playing it a bunch, sometimes I didn't play for a month while I played other games.
The only relevant questions are really "Do I enjoy playing this game a lot regardless of the fee?" If no, you don't play it. If yes, then "Is the subscription something I'm comfortable paying for the subscription?"
Oh, I fully admit that this is my perception. I don't know if I'm mentally capable of disentangling the concepts of "recurring payment" and "value", though. When I was subbed to WoW, I basically didn't buy other games; it was a rare exception that made it past the "but I'm paying for WoW this month" filter.
I did something similar with SWtOR, but I grew disinterested in only 2mo, so I didn't really feel bad at letting my sub slide; it felt like I hadn't really had time to get invested yet.
This all ties back in to Wildstar, though, as it looks fantastic, but I'm going to sit on the fence until after release, locked in indecision about any sub fee, and obsessively seeking out every bit of information/review I can get on it.
0
CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
"Slow news days happen." Sure, of course. But again, I don't expect to come in this thread to see 30+ posts about... other stuff that's tangential to the purpose of the thread.
And why can't you discuss this in Game Industry? That's kind of the point of the Game Industry thread, isn't it? Or maybe we need a thread here in MMO Extravaganza for this type of topic. Could be something to bring up to the mods, no?
In any event, since I seem to be the only one concerned about it, I'll shut up and not be so excited to see new posts here.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
What we really should be talking about in this thread is
Which is cooler:
Claws or pistols.
On one hand pistols can shoot.
But on the other hand, claws.
I'm gonna call it a tie.
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited April 2013
I'll take "Big guns and bullets" for 400, Alex.
I expect one of the two class reveals to be a long gun shooter DPS class who possibly tanks, as I expect the other healer class that's been pseudo confirmed by Gaffney in the Q&A to most likely be a melee class, so we have three of each.
I expect one of the two class reveals to be a long gun shooter DPS class who possibly tanks, as I expect the other healer class that's been pseudo confirmed by Gaffney in the Q&A to most likely be a melee class, so we have three of each.
I agree.
So far they have:
2x Melee DPS/Tank
2x Ranged DPS/Healer
With 2 more classes, I expect at least 1 Ranged DPS/Tank and 1 Melee DPS/Healer.
Melee healer is sort of my bag. I would enjoy it if this was a thing in this game.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
Guys, you are forgetting all the animation work they did for each race. Guns and claws are both going to be totally awesome, in so many different ways!
...and when you are done with that; take a folding
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
Pretty sure the <REDACTED> healer class they keep hinting at is going to be a staff user, then from trailers there should be a rifle-toting ranged class.
"Slow news days happen." Sure, of course. But again, I don't expect to come in this thread to see 30+ posts about... other stuff that's tangential to the purpose of the thread.
And why can't you discuss this in Game Industry? That's kind of the point of the Game Industry thread, isn't it? Or maybe we need a thread here in MMO Extravaganza for this type of topic. Could be something to bring up to the mods, no?
In any event, since I seem to be the only one concerned about it, I'll shut up and not be so excited to see new posts here.
You know in the video how there's drop-pods that release wild animals into the starting zone?
They should let you breed monsters in your garden, then give you an aiming reticule so you can drop them in a pod yourself. "Look, it's that jerk guild fighting a world boss! EAT SECOND WORLD BOSS!"
0
BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
You know in the video how there's drop-pods that release wild animals into the starting zone?
They should let you breed monsters in your garden, then give you an aiming reticule so you can drop them in a pod yourself. "Look, it's that jerk guild fighting a world boss! EAT SECOND WORLD BOSS!"
That's like two pokemon brawling while the trainers throw down with fucking bottles and chains in the background
You know in the video how there's drop-pods that release wild animals into the starting zone?
They should let you breed monsters in your garden, then give you an aiming reticule so you can drop them in a pod yourself. "Look, it's that jerk guild fighting a world boss! EAT SECOND WORLD BOSS!"
That's like two pokemon brawling while the trainers throw down with fucking bottles and chains in the background
Is that a games? That needs to be a game. I want that game!
You know in the video how there's drop-pods that release wild animals into the starting zone?
They should let you breed monsters in your garden, then give you an aiming reticule so you can drop them in a pod yourself. "Look, it's that jerk guild fighting a world boss! EAT SECOND WORLD BOSS!"
That's like two pokemon brawling while the trainers throw down with fucking bottles and chains in the background
Is that a games? That needs to be a game. I want that game!
Uh how do you play pokemon?
0
DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
"Slow news days happen." Sure, of course. But again, I don't expect to come in this thread to see 30+ posts about... other stuff that's tangential to the purpose of the thread.
And why can't you discuss this in Game Industry? That's kind of the point of the Game Industry thread, isn't it? Or maybe we need a thread here in MMO Extravaganza for this type of topic. Could be something to bring up to the mods, no?
In any event, since I seem to be the only one concerned about it, I'll shut up and not be so excited to see new posts here.
People are discussing it as it applies directly to Wildstar. You may not like that discussion, that's fine, but it is a valid and on-topic discussion.
I've no idea which class I'm going to play. I don't want to be a healer and DPS is never in short supply. Maybe tank? Though I would prefer to be somewhat squishy since that ups the excitement factor.
Posts
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
WoW was my first MMO; EQ didn't interest me, and that was the only MMO I'd encountered before WoW. Suddenly, everyone I know was telling me that Blizzard was about to have an open beta for a new Warcraft online game, and I was totally fucking there. So I gave it a whirl, and ended up grabbing a copy a week after launch; I had to wait a week for pay day, iirc.
By the time I had installed and logged on, my friends were already leveled into their 40s; we NEVER ended up playing together. I spent the next several years bouncing around between servers and alt characters, really enjoying the depth of the world created, but never fully embracing the MMO-style gameplay (1,2,3,3,3,4,1,2...) and having a real hard time ever making an long-lasting friendships due to my always dumping the current to try something new. And through my dissatisfaction, I kept on playing, feeling that I'd already spent god knows how much on subscription fees that I didn't feel I'd gotten value out of yet, so I kept on playing, trying to justify my subscription, both current and past payments, while being unable to really devote enough time or focus to do much other than replay the same early level content over and over.
I eventually settled into an RP server, found some people I could RP with regardless of my level, and at some point during TBC, actually hit level cap.
I was ecstatic; years after picking up this game, I could finally play with my friends, and do the shit they talked about all the time.
But schedules didn't ever connect; I think I did one level 80 dungeon that I was a bit undergeared for, and maxed out my mining/engineering to build a helicopter, took a screenshot in it... and unsubscribed.
I finally felt like I'd "won". That I'd done all I could ever do in that game. Several years, hundreds of dollars, to get one RP character to level cap and a flying machine.
I've poked at it a bit every now and then, a free week here and there, and just can't really get back into it; I've got nothing that ties me to it, and all that classic, old-feel content is long gone. I can't get immersed in the world the way I could at launch, and as such, I feel no desire to subscribe again.
Which brings us to today, and Wildstar. Which looks amazing, and knowing that they're catering a career path to exploring (wall walkin' 4 lyfe), it's really, really tempting. But I still remember that feeling; that feeling of constantly being dissatisfied with the gameplay, with the feelings of obligation that the recurring payment instilled in me, the stress of wanting to squeeze every drop of "value" from the product while never being able to devote any consistent time or schedule to it...
Yeah.
I'm pumped, but I'm cautious. WoW ruined subs for me; it will take something incredible to get past the wall that WoW built.
People are more used to paying more for content after buying a base game now than ever. You can't buy a game any more without expecting to have DLC come out for it. Even FPS games and stuff are copying subscription models to sell people season passes for access to their DLC, which is basically just copying the MMO model except they're calling it DLC instead of content patches.
When I go to this thread and see "32 new posts" I expect to see 32 new posts about Wildstar. Not 32 new posts regarding game models, subscription versus F2P, cash shop or not, and so forth. I get all excited to see what the developers are coming up with, and then get disappointed.
I mean, isn't there a thread for that? Because to me, this line of discussion shouldn't be in a thread dedicated to one game.
And just to stay on topic, I do hope we see the last couple races soon and a bit more on the other paths they've teased.
I would say that it is indeed relevant. I mean there would have been no discussion here today if not for this! And no, there is not a thread for this discussion so this is where it is happening. You cannot enter the Game Industry thread and just bring up something like this to discuss.
Hmmm? I thought they hadn't made an official announcement yet?
There came a point when I finally realized the subscription has to be treated differently. I had to simply decide if it was worth it for me to subscribe whether or not I was going to play it a bunch. I started subbing to WoW for 6 months at a time for the slight discount. Then, I just played WoW whenever I felt like it. Sometimes i was playing it a bunch, sometimes I didn't play for a month while I played other games.
The only relevant questions are really "Do I enjoy playing this game a lot regardless of the fee?" If no, you don't play it. If yes, then "Is the subscription something I'm comfortable paying for what I think I'll get out of it?"
Oh I guess you're right. It did seem to me like they strongly hinted that that would be the case.
Oh, I fully admit that this is my perception. I don't know if I'm mentally capable of disentangling the concepts of "recurring payment" and "value", though. When I was subbed to WoW, I basically didn't buy other games; it was a rare exception that made it past the "but I'm paying for WoW this month" filter.
I did something similar with SWtOR, but I grew disinterested in only 2mo, so I didn't really feel bad at letting my sub slide; it felt like I hadn't really had time to get invested yet.
This all ties back in to Wildstar, though, as it looks fantastic, but I'm going to sit on the fence until after release, locked in indecision about any sub fee, and obsessively seeking out every bit of information/review I can get on it.
They have hinted, but it's still very much up in the air.
I am willing to consider many things once I taste beta and can get a handle for what it is they have created here.
And why can't you discuss this in Game Industry? That's kind of the point of the Game Industry thread, isn't it? Or maybe we need a thread here in MMO Extravaganza for this type of topic. Could be something to bring up to the mods, no?
In any event, since I seem to be the only one concerned about it, I'll shut up and not be so excited to see new posts here.
Which is cooler:
Claws or pistols.
On one hand pistols can shoot.
But on the other hand, claws.
I'm gonna call it a tie.
I expect one of the two class reveals to be a long gun shooter DPS class who possibly tanks, as I expect the other healer class that's been pseudo confirmed by Gaffney in the Q&A to most likely be a melee class, so we have three of each.
I agree.
So far they have:
2x Melee DPS/Tank
2x Ranged DPS/Healer
With 2 more classes, I expect at least 1 Ranged DPS/Tank and 1 Melee DPS/Healer.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
"...only mights and maybes."
They should let you breed monsters in your garden, then give you an aiming reticule so you can drop them in a pod yourself. "Look, it's that jerk guild fighting a world boss! EAT SECOND WORLD BOSS!"
That's like two pokemon brawling while the trainers throw down with fucking bottles and chains in the background
"...only mights and maybes."
Is that a games? That needs to be a game. I want that game!
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
"...only mights and maybes."
Uh how do you play pokemon?
People are discussing it as it applies directly to Wildstar. You may not like that discussion, that's fine, but it is a valid and on-topic discussion.
i agree. let us be [future revealed class] brothers
Twitch Channel
could be interesting, but i would think everything is going to be dps/other
Twitch Channel
"...only mights and maybes."
so what you're saying is, they will really
*puts on sunglasses*
WoW you?
Twitch Channel
Boooo. Get off the stage!
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Don't get me all excited! I would be able to shout "ALWAYS LIVE, NEVER DIE!" more often than I already do to my friends on skype.
I doubt that. Though can you imagine the soloing with that kind of class?
I mean, I'd play it. But I'm not exactly the normal audiance in an MMO. If I'm not tanking or healing in a group, I'm not really having fun.
that was my first thought as well. tickling an enemy to death while other classes pound them into the dirt doesn't sound like much fun to me
Twitch Channel
Paladins have been in many MMOs before my friend.