Everyone going to PAX who posts in this thread needs to stop by their booth and let drop that they're part of the PA community eagerly awaiting our group beta invites.
More details on what sort of customizations can be made to warplots would be cool too.
+4
BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
WildStar Online will not be Free-to-Play. It won’t be Buy-to-Play like Guild Wars 2, either. What does that leave, boys and girls? That’s right, you heard it here first: WildStar will operate via the classic subscription model, with a tasty EVE-like caveat Carbine is calling CREDD. Last week we caught up with Jeremy Gaffney to chat about the revenue model for WildStar and why Carbine is betting on the subscription model over the new hotness of F2P and microtransactions.
First, let’s laydown the basics for you. The box for WildStar will cost you the now standard price of $59.99, which gets you 30-days of free game time, and three week-long passes for friends to try the game too. After that, you’ll have to pay $14.99 a month, or cheaper ($13.99 for three months, $12.99 for six, $10.99 for a year) if you pay for multiple months at a time. But the big twist that WildStar is throwing into the mix is that you still can play for free... if you’re willing to work for it in-game. That’s where CREDD comes in.
CREDD stands for Certificate of Research, Exploration, Destruction and Development (cleverly “WildStarified” by the Carbine team). Basically, players can buy this month-long unit of game time from the WildStarOnline.com website itself, and then turn around and sell it in-game on the Commodities Exchange. Now the CE isn’t going to behave like some sort of bland Auction House. Think of it instead like a stock exchange. While Jeremy wasn’t able to comment much on what else will be available on the CE outside of CREDD just yet, here’s the explanation from the game’s official FAQ on how it works:
“The CX is unique in that when a player wants to buy a particular commodity, they will only be able to buy that commodity at the lowest currently offered price, with no awareness of who’s actually selling it. Once the stock of that commodity at that price is gone, players will then be able to buy from the available stock at the next lowest price.”
This protects players from manipulation of the market, and allows players who are industrious enough to spend their in-game gold to buy game time and never have to actually pay for a subscription. Meanwhile, players who want to buy gold won’t have to seek out shady third-party dealers; they can simply buy a $19.99 CREDD (higher than a normal month of game-time, again to help keep the market in control) and sell it on the CE for what Jeremy assumes will be a healthy some of in-game gold.
I still think they're shooting themselves in the foot with the choice but I'm not going to armchair it too much.
I hope it works out well for them.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
+1
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Well, I'm not super hot about the subscription system because the game is published by fucking NCsoft and they fucking will have some sort of real money shop in there, guaran-fucking-teed, so have fun paying for subscription and whatever shit they're selling on that fucking thing,
but the CREDD thing sounds alright.
0
BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
I honestly prefer sub as well. For every good F2P model. Like StarTrek there is a horrible one like Tor which wants to ding you for every single function in the base game from travel to hiding your ugly hat to freaking quickbars.
BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
Honestly I have a lot of respect for these guys for sticking to their guns for good or ill and for also using their beta for its goddamn intended purpose to the point that they took it down to take a bunch of stuff back to formula to hopefully craft a better game as a result.
PSN: Waybackkidd
"...only mights and maybes."
+4
Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
This should be okay as long as it is one AH/TP/CX/Market serving whatever server setup they go with and they pro-actively crack down on botters (both gathering and automated market systems).
Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Still waiting on Dan "Man of his Word" Ryckert to eat a hat
0
BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
This should be okay as long as it is one AH/TP/CX/Market serving whatever server setup they go with and they pro-actively crack down on botters (both gathering and automated market systems).
You can't really bot farm much in the game because occasionally a node will up and try to kill you. It at least ensures a person has to be at the keyboard at the very least.
This should be okay as long as it is one AH/TP/CX/Market serving whatever server setup they go with and they pro-actively crack down on botters (both gathering and automated market systems).
You can't really bot farm much in the game because occasionally a node will up and try to kill you. It at least ensures a person has to be at the keyboard at the very least.
in GW2 there were bot trains that would run around from node to node gathering. it didn't matter if they ran into any enemies, as there were about 7-10 of them in a train and they would just melt anything that got in their way. in my experience, botters will always find a way to bot. botters gonna bot is the main bullet point of this presentation, i guess?
This should be okay as long as it is one AH/TP/CX/Market serving whatever server setup they go with and they pro-actively crack down on botters (both gathering and automated market systems).
You can't really bot farm much in the game because occasionally a node will up and try to kill you. It at least ensures a person has to be at the keyboard at the very least.
in GW2 there were bot trains that would run around from node to node gathering. it didn't matter if they ran into any enemies, as there were about 7-10 of them in a train and they would just melt anything that got in their way. in my experience, botters will always find a way to bot. botters gonna bot is the main bullet point of this presentation, i guess?
Guild Wars 2 bots were the best. "Hey, what is this herd of twenty or thirty level 10 rangers doing in this level 50 zone?" Fucking hilarious. Haven't seen one of those since launch-ish, though.
+1
BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
holy shit that was a thing? That is hilarious. I can't even be mad at that.
This should be okay as long as it is one AH/TP/CX/Market serving whatever server setup they go with and they pro-actively crack down on botters (both gathering and automated market systems).
You can't really bot farm much in the game because occasionally a node will up and try to kill you. It at least ensures a person has to be at the keyboard at the very least.
in GW2 there were bot trains that would run around from node to node gathering. it didn't matter if they ran into any enemies, as there were about 7-10 of them in a train and they would just melt anything that got in their way. in my experience, botters will always find a way to bot. botters gonna bot is the main bullet point of this presentation, i guess?
I think you've just proven that the world we live in cannot be a simulation running on some sort of super computer.
This should be okay as long as it is one AH/TP/CX/Market serving whatever server setup they go with and they pro-actively crack down on botters (both gathering and automated market systems).
You can't really bot farm much in the game because occasionally a node will up and try to kill you. It at least ensures a person has to be at the keyboard at the very least.
in GW2 there were bot trains that would run around from node to node gathering. it didn't matter if they ran into any enemies, as there were about 7-10 of them in a train and they would just melt anything that got in their way. in my experience, botters will always find a way to bot. botters gonna bot is the main bullet point of this presentation, i guess?
I think you've just proven that the world we live in cannot be a simulation running on some sort of super computer.
No. Everyone else is a bot. They're just really good bots.
You're even a bot.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
All that talk about a "stock market" instead of an auction house makes me really wary.
They'd better intend on hiring or contracting a real economist. If you want your economy to function like a real economy, you need to have it designed and watched by a guy who's a real economist. Not a developer who plays an economist on TV.
Games can get well and truly fucked up if you try to institute that kind of stuff without some real knowledge.
its true, eve's economy is locked down by a professional economist, and that is one reason why their system works very well, although the fact they are looking heavily into the economy always excites me because it is usually overlooked and becomes a flood of shit very quickly
This should be okay as long as it is one AH/TP/CX/Market serving whatever server setup they go with and they pro-actively crack down on botters (both gathering and automated market systems).
You can't really bot farm much in the game because occasionally a node will up and try to kill you. It at least ensures a person has to be at the keyboard at the very least.
in GW2 there were bot trains that would run around from node to node gathering. it didn't matter if they ran into any enemies, as there were about 7-10 of them in a train and they would just melt anything that got in their way. in my experience, botters will always find a way to bot. botters gonna bot is the main bullet point of this presentation, i guess?
I think you've just proven that the world we live in cannot be a simulation running on some sort of super computer.
No. Everyone else is a bot. They're just really good bots.
You're even a bot.
If I was a bot would I be willing to sell you Ferro Tungsten for only 45 USD/kg?
PM me for details.
Taranis on
+5
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I don't understand how the stock market is different than a regular auction house with a mod that sorts out the best deals for you.
My interest level has actually risen thanks to this announcement. Wildstar has gone from a very likely to pass to a very likely to buy for me.
I WANT a premium game with a premium experience. And if they're ballsy enough to launch with a subscription model, it gets me excited that they might actually step up to the plate and deliver.
And personally, I think there's something to be said about having to put money down. It brings in more players who really WANT to play the game, who WANT to be a part of the community and who WANT to see the game succeed.
I'd rather play an MMO with a much smaller, but higher quality community, versus one that let's every mouthbreather who can create an account jump in and play.
Case in point: Yesterday in Neverwinter, I got a random private message calling me a "f****t" for spending $200 on the CE edition (which comes with a special mount). Really? Really? It's my money that's keeping you (the freebie locust) in the game. I know it was just a dumb tell, but it really made me think about what sorts of people are really attracted to F2P.
Anyway, I'm excited. Let's see if Carbine can step up to the plate an actually deliver an experience worth paying for.
Plus, I spend waaaaaaay too much money on free games. Carbine's actually going to get less money from me each month by not having a cash shop and making me pay $14.99/mo to play.
And yes, from what I read, the model is a "Pay monthly get everything with no cash shop" model.
I WANT a premium game with a premium experience. And if they're ballsy enough to launch with a subscription model, it gets me excited that they might actually step up to the plate and deliver.
Yeah, just like Aion, Champions Online, DC Universe Online, EverQuest 2, Lineage 2, The Matrix Online, Rift, Star Wars The Old Republic, The Secret World, Star Trek Online, Tabula Rasa, Tera, Vanguard and a slew of other premium games with premium experiences.
Yeah @ironzerg, I'm pretty stoked they want to stick with subscription. For similar reasons.
I've totally quit playing all F2P games (outside of fits of massive boredom, which hasn't happened recently), simply because they always get me. I always end up spending money when I don't want to, because they gate so much content I'd like to see/have/experience behind money.
I'm thankful this game is going to at least have a subscription. I do think they'll have a cash shop though. With boosts and mounts and all that cosmetic stuff. I have no reason to believe that other than: NCsoft, it's the age of MMO gaming we live in, and if I was making an MMO I'd have a cash shop because they make bank.
I sincerely hope they don't. Because the cash shop always gets away from whoever is in charge of it. It always expands to include other stuff, and it eventually has things which are just too good to not buy (case in point: GW2 infinite harvesting tools. Sure, you don't need them, but they are just too good to not buy if you play that game seriously.).
I WANT a premium game with a premium experience. And if they're ballsy enough to launch with a subscription model, it gets me excited that they might actually step up to the plate and deliver.
Yeah, just like Aion, Champions Online, DC Universe Online, EverQuest 2, Lineage 2, The Matrix Online, Rift, Star Wars The Old Republic, The Secret World, Star Trek Online, Tabula Rasa, Tera, Vanguard and a slew of other premium games with a premium experience.
Tinker on this: Was it the sub fee or the quality of the game that caused those games to close or go F2P?
Truth is, if you have a product worth paying for, people will pay for it. Holds true for everything in this world.
At my age, my rare resource is time, not money. And I'm more excited about a developer who's going to pitch a game so good I'll pay for it than a developer who's fall back is "Hey, it's free, what do you got to lose?".
0
BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
most sub games fail not because they had subs but because they either run out of content and failed to keep their players engaged or were plain shit from the jump. Being free doesn't magically make better aside from the fact that you aren't paying for it. And if it was trash you wouldn't bother in the first place.
PSN: Waybackkidd
"...only mights and maybes."
+2
Dr_KeenbeanDumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered Userregular
I WANT a premium game with a premium experience. And if they're ballsy enough to launch with a subscription model, it gets me excited that they might actually step up to the plate and deliver.
Yeah, just like Aion, Champions Online, DC Universe Online, EverQuest 2, Lineage 2, The Matrix Online, Rift, Star Wars The Old Republic, The Secret World, Star Trek Online, Tabula Rasa, Tera, Vanguard and a slew of other premium games with premium experiences.
unfortunately, my financial situation is so shitty and unstable that even if Wildstar turns out to shit gold and be the best game ever made, I won't be able to afford it. I can only really do Guild Wars 2 because once I bought the content I bought it and while it'd be NICE to have some of the gem store crap, I don't NEED it to play the game effectively. I was able to drop the main fee while I was flush with cash, and that was that. With this game, like... not only is it a sub model, but they're basically encouraging poop-socking with their play to keep your sub thing
Market climate is still a thing and while we might all love for sub games to be viable because they offer a better experience I'm just not sure that is true anymore. The perception of value and what money is worth in games has shifted as the averages go down.
You and I might want the premium experience but if there's 90% of people who simply want to play a game and aren't that picky other than the game needing to get over the initial cost barrier of entry then it just might not be something that is sustainable.
I hope I am wrong. Using Wow as an example fails because at the time it gained it's momentum the sub model was the only way to do it and people are just too invested now to let their accounts go. This is a brand new game with no loyalty outside of the hype machine and outside of people who follow it who have made conscious decisions to be excited for the game it'll have nothing but game play videos and the words on the box that stand out and say "Hi I'm selling myself to you and asking you to put in a financial obligation to play me even if you can't be certain anyone else will play me or if I'll even be around in a few years".
If you took offence to that last part i urge you to re-read it. That's not a value judgement on the game but an evaluation of market psychology for the majority of people who may or may not want to dip their toes in. This decision does nothing but dry up that pool almost completely.
Seidkona on
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Financially speaking, is it better to have 100k people paying you $15 a month, or a million paying you nothing (who will also be gone to the next F2P experience in 3 weeks)?
Market climate is still a thing and while we might all love for sub games to be viable because they offer a better experience I'm just not sure that is true anymore. The perception of value and what money is worth in games has shifted as the averages go down.
I would argue that it's TIME not MONEY that is the limiting resource behind the most profitable segments of the gaming market.
I want the best experience per unit of time, not per dollar.
but they're basically encouraging poop-socking with their play to keep your sub thing
It's extremely unlikely that the people who are going to have the money and inclination to pay a monthly fee for Wildstar aren't the type who have all the time in the world to "poopsock" in a game.
It's more likely that the "poopsockers" will just flock to some other F2P game where their ability to put in exponentially more time than other players rewards them financially via in game currency conversions.
And ultimately, I'll give the guys at Carbine the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure they've done the financial analysis and believe they'll capture X customers and sales with a sub model versus Y customers as B2P and Z customers as F2P and have determined that scenario X better suits their business.
0
drunkenpandarenSlapping all the goblin hamIn the top laneRegistered Userregular
I was kind of hoping that they would do some sort of strange eldrich abomination that's similar to what Rift has. But oh well, probably still going to play it. I'll just have to sell my body outside of people's houses so I can get all those CREDDs.
Luckily I've a job, so the box&sub aren't a problem for me. Here's hoping the game justifies the cost, WoW's been paying for its slow content trickle dearly these past couple of years.
With this news that it's coming out in spring 2014, which is like.. a stone's throw away with how fast this year has gone. My MMONER is standing in full attention! TAKE MY MONIES ALREADY CARBINE!
I actually lean toward preferring a subscription model. However, that guarantees I won't pick up the game on day 1.
I find the subscription model is better, IF I'm confident that the game is quality.
With non-sub models, such as GW2, I struggle to find the exact price entry point to maximize my enjoyment. I usually feel that I'm being stiffed if I'm only spending monthly subscription level money to purchase things in the cash shop.
I vastly, vastly prefer a model that makes me feel like I have full game access for the price of a subscription, and that's a price I'm willing to pay. If you don't do that way and go cash shop instead, too often you get a mode where everyone is a less important cash shop user except for the whales.
However, when you sell a box tied to a subscription, I have to wait at least a month before buying in to make sure you aren't part of the swathe of overhyped games that quickly burn out.
What is this I don't even.
+2
BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
Kotaku's review on this is probably one of the few things from them I look forward to as far as they are concerned. Mostly because I like their reviewing method for mmos. Instead of rushing to be the first guys to scribble something up about it, they do a four week blog about their experiences and end with a summary of their ordeal and whether it was worth it or not. I kind of wish other gaming sites adopted this method.
Yeah, just like Aion, Champions Online, DC Universe Online, EverQuest 2, Lineage 2, The Matrix Online, Rift, Star Wars The Old Republic, The Secret World, Star Trek Online, Tabula Rasa, Tera, Vanguard and a slew of other premium games with premium experiences.
Of your list there, I've played every single one. The ones that were totally worth the subscription and a premium experience were: Aion, Champions Online, EQ2, Lineage 2, Rift, TSW, STO, TR, Tera, Vanguard, and a slew of others.
Have they all gone free to play since then? Yup. (Except maybe Lineage2, its been a long time and I dunno).
And for the most part, all of those are now a lesser experience in their F2P form which tend to require more money to get the full experience that the flat fee when they were a subscription. Not all of them mind you, Tera, TSW and STO are doing things right... although without a subscription model their additional content and updates are very few now.
If your point was that those games failed, well yup... everything has fucking failed if the numbers are compared to the subscription cash cow that is WoW.
Its great that a lot of MMOs that were not doing so hot are now doing better due to a F2P model. But at the same time the new content in them is mainly just more shit in their cash shop and no new raids, zones, etc. So from the point of view where money is concerned they might be doing well, but for me where I give a shit about what I'm playing they are just "ok" as F2P.
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
I'll cop to being disappointed that Carbine chose the subscription model. I certainly hope it works out for them, but I'd be lying if I said I was optimistic about it. I just don't see that many ("that many" in this case meaning the huge number of players in the WoW audience, which if I recall is the specific market/group Carbine is aiming for) people willing to throw down $15 a month at this point. Anyone here who has been active in this genre for long enough is well aware of WoW's impact on the market (and no, you can't talk about ANY new title in the MMO market without bringing up WoW - it is and probably will for quite some time remain the 800 lb. gorilla of the industry).
Sure, a lot of F2P games have failed, primarily those that began as subscription-only games which then went F2P because the game was simply not designed with that model in mind. RIFT is the one outlier here and to be honest, I think if you're a developer looking to release your game in this industry, that's the buisiness model you copy, lock, stock and barrel. It has a great blend of restricting nothing from F2P players while at the same time incentivizing those players to kick in a few bucks to speed up leveling, buy a nice looking set of gear or a cool mount or what have you. Those who pay the subscription will get a full compliment of (gamebux) to spend on those same items and a few other perks to boot. Everyone wins.
Again, I hope this works out for Carbine, but that being said, I also hope they have a solid Plan B if it doesn't go well. And if that's the case, I hope said Plan B isn't something out of BioWare/EA's playbook of "By god they'll pay us those sub fees or we'll make their gameplay experience horrible until they do!"
I just don't want to deal with subscription fees anymore.
Maybe I am particularly psychologically vulnerable to the forces at play here, but I really dislike how a sub makes me continuously evaluate whether I'm getting my dollar's worth out of a game, and especially how it erects a huge barrier to me ever coming back to the game and checking it out later after leaving it for a period of time. There are certainly buy to play or free to play games where you have to weigh the value of items in the cash shop, but that's a thing you can generally assess once and never have to worry about again rather than something constantly in the back of my mind.
I recently fired up GW2 and started playing it casually after not touching it since last year, and that categorically would never have happened if I had to whip out my credit card to do it. I'm sure I will pop back in later in the year to check out some of the future content updates. There is a pretty strong appeal to being able to freely leave and come back to an MMORPG with zero opportunity cost, and it will make me more willing to give a game another try after a hiatus, or purchase it in the first place.
As it stands, I am pretty disenchanted with the entire genre in general, and Wildstar has always looked like a polished re-shuffling of well established paradigms, but there's a good chance I would have given it a try regardless if I could just buy the box and "have" it. The subscription fee simply means that I will absolutely never play the game. I feel pretty much exactly the same way about FF14.
Posts
Class things.
Maybe let them know we love them very much.
More details on what sort of customizations can be made to warplots would be cool too.
WildStar Online will not be Free-to-Play. It won’t be Buy-to-Play like Guild Wars 2, either. What does that leave, boys and girls? That’s right, you heard it here first: WildStar will operate via the classic subscription model, with a tasty EVE-like caveat Carbine is calling CREDD. Last week we caught up with Jeremy Gaffney to chat about the revenue model for WildStar and why Carbine is betting on the subscription model over the new hotness of F2P and microtransactions.
First, let’s laydown the basics for you. The box for WildStar will cost you the now standard price of $59.99, which gets you 30-days of free game time, and three week-long passes for friends to try the game too. After that, you’ll have to pay $14.99 a month, or cheaper ($13.99 for three months, $12.99 for six, $10.99 for a year) if you pay for multiple months at a time. But the big twist that WildStar is throwing into the mix is that you still can play for free... if you’re willing to work for it in-game. That’s where CREDD comes in.
CREDD stands for Certificate of Research, Exploration, Destruction and Development (cleverly “WildStarified” by the Carbine team). Basically, players can buy this month-long unit of game time from the WildStarOnline.com website itself, and then turn around and sell it in-game on the Commodities Exchange. Now the CE isn’t going to behave like some sort of bland Auction House. Think of it instead like a stock exchange. While Jeremy wasn’t able to comment much on what else will be available on the CE outside of CREDD just yet, here’s the explanation from the game’s official FAQ on how it works:
“The CX is unique in that when a player wants to buy a particular commodity, they will only be able to buy that commodity at the lowest currently offered price, with no awareness of who’s actually selling it. Once the stock of that commodity at that price is gone, players will then be able to buy from the available stock at the next lowest price.”
This protects players from manipulation of the market, and allows players who are industrious enough to spend their in-game gold to buy game time and never have to actually pay for a subscription. Meanwhile, players who want to buy gold won’t have to seek out shady third-party dealers; they can simply buy a $19.99 CREDD (higher than a normal month of game-time, again to help keep the market in control) and sell it on the CE for what Jeremy assumes will be a healthy some of in-game gold.
"...only mights and maybes."
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I hope it works out well for them.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
but the CREDD thing sounds alright.
more straight from the horses mouth. Also, Spring 2014 release
"...only mights and maybes."
"...only mights and maybes."
Me too, provided it's JUST a subscription. I want to pay a flat rate and get everything all the time always.
Any MMO release leaves me wary that there's a cash shop hiding somewhere waiting to be switched on anymore.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Still waiting on Dan "Man of his Word" Ryckert to eat a hat
You can't really bot farm much in the game because occasionally a node will up and try to kill you. It at least ensures a person has to be at the keyboard at the very least.
"...only mights and maybes."
in GW2 there were bot trains that would run around from node to node gathering. it didn't matter if they ran into any enemies, as there were about 7-10 of them in a train and they would just melt anything that got in their way. in my experience, botters will always find a way to bot. botters gonna bot is the main bullet point of this presentation, i guess?
Twitch Channel
Guild Wars 2 bots were the best. "Hey, what is this herd of twenty or thirty level 10 rangers doing in this level 50 zone?" Fucking hilarious. Haven't seen one of those since launch-ish, though.
"...only mights and maybes."
I think you've just proven that the world we live in cannot be a simulation running on some sort of super computer.
No. Everyone else is a bot. They're just really good bots.
You're even a bot.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
They'd better intend on hiring or contracting a real economist. If you want your economy to function like a real economy, you need to have it designed and watched by a guy who's a real economist. Not a developer who plays an economist on TV.
Games can get well and truly fucked up if you try to institute that kind of stuff without some real knowledge.
If I was a bot would I be willing to sell you Ferro Tungsten for only 45 USD/kg?
PM me for details.
My interest level has actually risen thanks to this announcement. Wildstar has gone from a very likely to pass to a very likely to buy for me.
I WANT a premium game with a premium experience. And if they're ballsy enough to launch with a subscription model, it gets me excited that they might actually step up to the plate and deliver.
And personally, I think there's something to be said about having to put money down. It brings in more players who really WANT to play the game, who WANT to be a part of the community and who WANT to see the game succeed.
I'd rather play an MMO with a much smaller, but higher quality community, versus one that let's every mouthbreather who can create an account jump in and play.
Case in point: Yesterday in Neverwinter, I got a random private message calling me a "f****t" for spending $200 on the CE edition (which comes with a special mount). Really? Really? It's my money that's keeping you (the freebie locust) in the game. I know it was just a dumb tell, but it really made me think about what sorts of people are really attracted to F2P.
Anyway, I'm excited. Let's see if Carbine can step up to the plate an actually deliver an experience worth paying for.
Plus, I spend waaaaaaay too much money on free games. Carbine's actually going to get less money from me each month by not having a cash shop and making me pay $14.99/mo to play.
And yes, from what I read, the model is a "Pay monthly get everything with no cash shop" model.
I'm already setting up a system for high risk mortgage-backed securities on floating islands.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Yeah, just like Aion, Champions Online, DC Universe Online, EverQuest 2, Lineage 2, The Matrix Online, Rift, Star Wars The Old Republic, The Secret World, Star Trek Online, Tabula Rasa, Tera, Vanguard and a slew of other premium games with premium experiences.
I've totally quit playing all F2P games (outside of fits of massive boredom, which hasn't happened recently), simply because they always get me. I always end up spending money when I don't want to, because they gate so much content I'd like to see/have/experience behind money.
I'm thankful this game is going to at least have a subscription. I do think they'll have a cash shop though. With boosts and mounts and all that cosmetic stuff. I have no reason to believe that other than: NCsoft, it's the age of MMO gaming we live in, and if I was making an MMO I'd have a cash shop because they make bank.
I sincerely hope they don't. Because the cash shop always gets away from whoever is in charge of it. It always expands to include other stuff, and it eventually has things which are just too good to not buy (case in point: GW2 infinite harvesting tools. Sure, you don't need them, but they are just too good to not buy if you play that game seriously.).
Tinker on this: Was it the sub fee or the quality of the game that caused those games to close or go F2P?
Truth is, if you have a product worth paying for, people will pay for it. Holds true for everything in this world.
At my age, my rare resource is time, not money. And I'm more excited about a developer who's going to pitch a game so good I'll pay for it than a developer who's fall back is "Hey, it's free, what do you got to lose?".
"...only mights and maybes."
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so
nope.avi and all that
sure is great having no stable source of income!
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You and I might want the premium experience but if there's 90% of people who simply want to play a game and aren't that picky other than the game needing to get over the initial cost barrier of entry then it just might not be something that is sustainable.
I hope I am wrong. Using Wow as an example fails because at the time it gained it's momentum the sub model was the only way to do it and people are just too invested now to let their accounts go. This is a brand new game with no loyalty outside of the hype machine and outside of people who follow it who have made conscious decisions to be excited for the game it'll have nothing but game play videos and the words on the box that stand out and say "Hi I'm selling myself to you and asking you to put in a financial obligation to play me even if you can't be certain anyone else will play me or if I'll even be around in a few years".
If you took offence to that last part i urge you to re-read it. That's not a value judgement on the game but an evaluation of market psychology for the majority of people who may or may not want to dip their toes in. This decision does nothing but dry up that pool almost completely.
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I would argue that it's TIME not MONEY that is the limiting resource behind the most profitable segments of the gaming market.
I want the best experience per unit of time, not per dollar.
It's extremely unlikely that the people who are going to have the money and inclination to pay a monthly fee for Wildstar aren't the type who have all the time in the world to "poopsock" in a game.
It's more likely that the "poopsockers" will just flock to some other F2P game where their ability to put in exponentially more time than other players rewards them financially via in game currency conversions.
And ultimately, I'll give the guys at Carbine the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure they've done the financial analysis and believe they'll capture X customers and sales with a sub model versus Y customers as B2P and Z customers as F2P and have determined that scenario X better suits their business.
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I find the subscription model is better, IF I'm confident that the game is quality.
With non-sub models, such as GW2, I struggle to find the exact price entry point to maximize my enjoyment. I usually feel that I'm being stiffed if I'm only spending monthly subscription level money to purchase things in the cash shop.
I vastly, vastly prefer a model that makes me feel like I have full game access for the price of a subscription, and that's a price I'm willing to pay. If you don't do that way and go cash shop instead, too often you get a mode where everyone is a less important cash shop user except for the whales.
However, when you sell a box tied to a subscription, I have to wait at least a month before buying in to make sure you aren't part of the swathe of overhyped games that quickly burn out.
"...only mights and maybes."
Of your list there, I've played every single one. The ones that were totally worth the subscription and a premium experience were: Aion, Champions Online, EQ2, Lineage 2, Rift, TSW, STO, TR, Tera, Vanguard, and a slew of others.
Have they all gone free to play since then? Yup. (Except maybe Lineage2, its been a long time and I dunno).
And for the most part, all of those are now a lesser experience in their F2P form which tend to require more money to get the full experience that the flat fee when they were a subscription. Not all of them mind you, Tera, TSW and STO are doing things right... although without a subscription model their additional content and updates are very few now.
If your point was that those games failed, well yup... everything has fucking failed if the numbers are compared to the subscription cash cow that is WoW.
Its great that a lot of MMOs that were not doing so hot are now doing better due to a F2P model. But at the same time the new content in them is mainly just more shit in their cash shop and no new raids, zones, etc. So from the point of view where money is concerned they might be doing well, but for me where I give a shit about what I'm playing they are just "ok" as F2P.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sure, a lot of F2P games have failed, primarily those that began as subscription-only games which then went F2P because the game was simply not designed with that model in mind. RIFT is the one outlier here and to be honest, I think if you're a developer looking to release your game in this industry, that's the buisiness model you copy, lock, stock and barrel. It has a great blend of restricting nothing from F2P players while at the same time incentivizing those players to kick in a few bucks to speed up leveling, buy a nice looking set of gear or a cool mount or what have you. Those who pay the subscription will get a full compliment of (gamebux) to spend on those same items and a few other perks to boot. Everyone wins.
Again, I hope this works out for Carbine, but that being said, I also hope they have a solid Plan B if it doesn't go well. And if that's the case, I hope said Plan B isn't something out of BioWare/EA's playbook of "By god they'll pay us those sub fees or we'll make their gameplay experience horrible until they do!"
Maybe I am particularly psychologically vulnerable to the forces at play here, but I really dislike how a sub makes me continuously evaluate whether I'm getting my dollar's worth out of a game, and especially how it erects a huge barrier to me ever coming back to the game and checking it out later after leaving it for a period of time. There are certainly buy to play or free to play games where you have to weigh the value of items in the cash shop, but that's a thing you can generally assess once and never have to worry about again rather than something constantly in the back of my mind.
I recently fired up GW2 and started playing it casually after not touching it since last year, and that categorically would never have happened if I had to whip out my credit card to do it. I'm sure I will pop back in later in the year to check out some of the future content updates. There is a pretty strong appeal to being able to freely leave and come back to an MMORPG with zero opportunity cost, and it will make me more willing to give a game another try after a hiatus, or purchase it in the first place.
As it stands, I am pretty disenchanted with the entire genre in general, and Wildstar has always looked like a polished re-shuffling of well established paradigms, but there's a good chance I would have given it a try regardless if I could just buy the box and "have" it. The subscription fee simply means that I will absolutely never play the game. I feel pretty much exactly the same way about FF14.