Ok setting aside the balancing issue, because tired old and soon to be pointless argument, ho2 would b4ight Wizards being locked as humans, white lions being locked as elves etc matter to anyone enough to play a role in the game's slow death?
I'm assuming I'm just totally misunderstood the initial premise at this point.
It's been a long time since I played WAR, but other than like 2 pairs of exceptions, didn't every class (eventually) have a nearly identical counterpart on the other side?
The classes were pairings of two aspects - Chaos had a ranged dps/pet class, Order had a melee dps/pet class, etc. They weren't equal, the aspects were switched around.
Common misconception but White Lion and Squig Herder weren't mirrors. It was White Lion/Marauder and Shadow Warrior/Squig Herder.
FairchildRabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?"Registered Userregular
You know when you read the thread title quickly that last word comes out as something other than "Deck" and my initial response was "Woah, did he really write that ?"
You know when you read the thread title quickly that last word comes out as something other than "Deck" and my initial response was "Woah, did he really write that ?"
Yeah, everyone knows it's "goose".
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
You know when you read the thread title quickly that last word comes out as something other than "Deck" and my initial response was "Woah, did he really write that ?"
All hands on Richard, that guy in marketing, so we can strangle the exact release date out of him, much to the chagrin of the developers.
The problem with "nearly identical" is that a lot of the times the Order variants were different in the better way. Bright Wizards holla.
Having played on both sides that particular quibble just felt like "zomg shaman OP" all over again. When you have side exclusive classes people will blow the other side's boons out of proportion like whoah.
Except in WAR's case both of those classes were stupid broken in PVP, one was just a bit less broken than the other. Didn't make much difference to my White Lion dying in one second flat when 5 pools of doom were stacked on top of me while lag made them invisible.
You know when you read the thread title quickly that last word comes out as something other than "Deck" and my initial response was "Woah, did he really write that ?"
Every time I read the thread title, I double take.
One day a pvp game will get dots right. Unfortunately until then it's either 'dots... why bother' or 'if these are dots why do they insta gib errything'
The problem with "nearly identical" is that a lot of the times the Order variants were different in the better way. Bright Wizards holla.
Having played on both sides that particular quibble just felt like "zomg shaman OP" all over again. When you have side exclusive classes people will blow the other side's boons out of proportion like whoah.
Except in WAR's case both of those classes were stupid broken in PVP, one was just a bit less broken than the other. Didn't make much difference to my White Lion dying in one second flat when 5 pools of doom were stacked on top of me while lag made them invisible.
This. Having multiple max level classes on both sides really made the balancing discussions, well, lets go with entertaining :P
what was awesome at the beginning of war was taking your bright wizard, use the AoE before the start of battle, and have 100 combustion ready to go before the first orc pops his head above the ridge line. then have a pocket healer that only heals you.... beautiful glowing fire and charred corpses everywhere.
You know when you read the thread title quickly that last word comes out as something other than "Deck" and my initial response was "Woah, did he really write that ?"
Every time I read the thread title, I double take.
*Quest progress redesign
*open tagging is in
*Those are engineer skills in the deck builder over there
Yep. Those are all three cool things.
I like the Engineer ability names there too.
The quest progress redesign had been talked about by Carbine before, but it's good to see them sticking with it and even managing to put forth a slightly different take on 'kill x' quests.
I'll have to agree on that. A fight that is the same level as myself is usually beneath my notice if it is a 1v1. Depending on the mmo, I'd usually be able to chain five to fifteen of those fights before I needed a breather.
I only really paid attention when I fought 3+ vs 1 or the monster was much higher level than me.
except the demon/dark souls games and monster hunter... You always respected the mobs you fought there
all i want from these continued previews and talks about quests and combat is "we made it so it doesn't take 30 seconds to kill level 1 mobs"
Is that actually a thing in this game?
Because after coming back to TOR I have to say I'm getting tired of slow combat and long cooldowns (and a too-long global cd).
That is not actually a thing.
I was in the beta and it was a pretty big thing.
There's not really any need to silence that opinion either. It's beta, it's the time to say "hey this is kinda boring" and a lot of people are. I'm not saying the game is guaranteed to be like that at release.
I needed anime to post. on
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
You do know you aren't allowed to say you're in beta right? And no level 1 kills did not take a long time.
You do know you aren't allowed to say you're in beta right? And no level 1 kills did not take a long time.
I don't care.
Yes they did, unless there is a gross disparity between classes that leads to massively increased kill times between classes.
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BeezelThere was no agreement little morsel..Registered Userregular
edited October 2013
There was a weird thing going on with the combat where fighting mobs one at a time was actually to your detriment. Skills were balanced around handling a variable number of enemies. There wasn't a damage split mechanic but past a certain mob amount the skill would not do any damage/healing. So if a set of skills fell within a range of say, 3-5 mobs damaged, then you got the most out of them by fighting within that range. The whole system was set up for you to get in-combat boosts off of multipliers based on kill chains and multiple kills, complete with quake style announcer.
I had heard that inbetween CBT1 and CBT2 mob TTK was raised as well due to people saying it was too easy. So there's that to consider also
Beezel on
PSN: Waybackkidd
"...only mights and maybes."
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
I don't understand how I'm being a goose, particularly compared to a dismissive "sure bro".
I stated an experience I had with the game - an experience I openly stated may not and likely will not be a part of the finished product - and made my opinions clear. When you offered a dissenting opinion, presumably based on your own opinions, I stood by what I said and offered the possibility that class balance was presently in a state which lead to differing experiences. People chimed in to mention that there were differing experiences between phases of the beta test which further would help explain how two people could have different opinions.
I'm not alone in my feelings though. People in this thread have said "yeah looks slow". People in other forums have stated that they felt mob HP was very high. You're free to say "I did not experience that" but let's not invent some story where I'm lying or something just to make a scene. I experienced high mob HP without threat to my own health, the time to kill was long, and I was bored. You didn't get that. That's cool! That's fine. Don't tell me that I didn't experience what I did though.
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
I don't understand how I'm being a goose, particularly compared to a dismissive "sure bro".
I stated an experience I had with the game - an experience I openly stated may not and likely will not be a part of the finished product - and made my opinions clear. When you offered a dissenting opinion, presumably based on your own opinions, I stood by what I said and offered the possibility that class balance was presently in a state which lead to differing experiences. People chimed in to mention that there were differing experiences between phases of the beta test which further would help explain how two people could have different opinions.
I'm not alone in my feelings though. People in this thread have said "yeah looks slow". People in other forums have stated that they felt mob HP was very high. You're free to say "I did not experience that" but let's not invent some story where I'm lying or something just to make a scene. I experienced high mob HP without threat to my own health, the time to kill was long, and I was bored. You didn't get that. That's cool! That's fine. Don't tell me that I didn't experience what I did though.
:^:
People (especially those who've actually played the game) should feel like this is a free and safe space to discuss their opinions on the game, whether or not it reflects poorly on said game.
And yes, beta is beta...but how many times have we seen something that "is sure to get fixed by release" not get fixed, right?
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
I don't understand how I'm being a goose, particularly compared to a dismissive "sure bro".
I stated an experience I had with the game - an experience I openly stated may not and likely will not be a part of the finished product - and made my opinions clear. When you offered a dissenting opinion, presumably based on your own opinions, I stood by what I said and offered the possibility that class balance was presently in a state which lead to differing experiences. People chimed in to mention that there were differing experiences between phases of the beta test which further would help explain how two people could have different opinions.
I'm not alone in my feelings though. People in this thread have said "yeah looks slow". People in other forums have stated that they felt mob HP was very high. You're free to say "I did not experience that" but let's not invent some story where I'm lying or something just to make a scene. I experienced high mob HP without threat to my own health, the time to kill was long, and I was bored. You didn't get that. That's cool! That's fine. Don't tell me that I didn't experience what I did though.
I was talking about the you not caring about beta rules.
They have these rules for a reason.
It's pretty goosey to nonchalantly dismiss the rules that you agreed to.
That's what I meant.
Sorry for the confusion.
I also was never talking about the battles feeling too long or anything like that. I was referring to whether or not lvl 1 mobs took 30 seconds to kill. Whether or not that is true is not an opinion but a fact. I'm saying I'm pretty certain that is not a fact.
DemonStacey on
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CorehealerThe ApothecaryThe softer edge of the universe.Registered Userregular
edited October 2013
We won't be able to really talk about it anyway until the NDA is lifted and more people are in the beta. My guess is that combat feels longer even at lower levels because it's designed like the rest of the game's leveling and combat structures to casually train players from 1 to cap to be potentially better at raiding, learn raid mechanics and not stand in the stupid, helpfully pointed out by the circles and outlines on the ground. That process results in combat being longer then in other MMOs.
Whether or not that ends up being good or bad or changed or not will come as we go into the next phase of beta and can yell at Carbine to do something about it if we think it sucks, and cancel pre-orders or whatnot if they choose not to fix it. I haven't decided if it's good or bad yet until I've actually tried it as it might end up being not a big deal, or the AoE focus might make it better, or the combat being enjoyable might even make each fight fun. In terms of how long each fight takes, you have to ask yourself, is the combat fun? Is there something I'd rather be doing or is this a good use of my time? If it's not, then should I be playing or looking forward to this game or yelling at Carbine to change it, etc.
I don't understand how I'm being a goose, particularly compared to a dismissive "sure bro".
I stated an experience I had with the game - an experience I openly stated may not and likely will not be a part of the finished product - and made my opinions clear. When you offered a dissenting opinion, presumably based on your own opinions, I stood by what I said and offered the possibility that class balance was presently in a state which lead to differing experiences. People chimed in to mention that there were differing experiences between phases of the beta test which further would help explain how two people could have different opinions.
I'm not alone in my feelings though. People in this thread have said "yeah looks slow". People in other forums have stated that they felt mob HP was very high. You're free to say "I did not experience that" but let's not invent some story where I'm lying or something just to make a scene. I experienced high mob HP without threat to my own health, the time to kill was long, and I was bored. You didn't get that. That's cool! That's fine. Don't tell me that I didn't experience what I did though.
:^:
People (especially those who've actually played the game) should feel like this is a free and safe space to discuss their opinions on the game, whether or not it reflects poorly on said game.
And yes, beta is beta...but how many times have we seen something that "is sure to get fixed by release" not get fixed, right?
In of itself, by the time a software team is calling something "beta", odds are they're pretty sure they have the base design nailed down, and are doing doing minor number tweaks. Odds are they intend mobs to take longer to kill, since it's pretty fucking hard to fuck up the math of "An average attack does at level X does Y damage, a level X mob should have an average HP of Z, Z/Y*(GCD)=TTK" and then building around that. Wildstar's devs seem a bit attached to "how MMOs are supposed be!" design, which means throwbacks to old-school design, which means return to tedious bullshit, such as hard to kill mobs and long tedious level grinding.
You'd think MMO devs at this point would learn that long drawn out fights with basic mobs aren't really fun to fight, and move away from that. In general, basic mobs are boring unless you fighting them in hordes and/or blowing throw them.
Then again, this was the team that threw out "30s seconds to kill a player in PvP" and were surprised when people jumped on them for throwing it out there(it is/was way too short), so I'm not sure they're fully learning what other MMOs and games have taught us.
Wildstar's devs seem a bit attached to "how MMOs are supposed be!" design, which means throwbacks to old-school design, which means return to tedious bullshit, such as hard to kill mobs and long tedious level grinding.
Posts
Yeah. BWs used their special resource to blow people up.
Sorcerers used their special resource to blow themselves up.
I'm assuming I'm just totally misunderstood the initial premise at this point.
Common misconception but White Lion and Squig Herder weren't mirrors. It was White Lion/Marauder and Shadow Warrior/Squig Herder.
The Squiq Hunter, altho a hoot to play, was deeply lame.
"...only mights and maybes."
Yeah, everyone knows it's "goose".
All hands on Richard, that guy in marketing, so we can strangle the exact release date out of him, much to the chagrin of the developers.
Except in WAR's case both of those classes were stupid broken in PVP, one was just a bit less broken than the other. Didn't make much difference to my White Lion dying in one second flat when 5 pools of doom were stacked on top of me while lag made them invisible.
Every time I read the thread title, I double take.
This. Having multiple max level classes on both sides really made the balancing discussions, well, lets go with entertaining :P
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
You guys sure have a lot of dick on the mind.
Well his Avatar does seem to be consuming something with a similar profile...
Law and Order ≠ Justice
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Dicks and Wieners are two different things. :P
?
Big things to take away from this
*Quest progress redesign
*open tagging is in
*Those are engineer skills in the deck builder over there
"...only mights and maybes."
Yep. Those are all three cool things.
I like the Engineer ability names there too.
The quest progress redesign had been talked about by Carbine before, but it's good to see them sticking with it and even managing to put forth a slightly different take on 'kill x' quests.
http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=33110&storypage=1
Is that actually a thing in this game?
Because after coming back to TOR I have to say I'm getting tired of slow combat and long cooldowns (and a too-long global cd).
I only really paid attention when I fought 3+ vs 1 or the monster was much higher level than me.
except the demon/dark souls games and monster hunter... You always respected the mobs you fought there
Steam - NotoriusBEN | Uplay - notoriusben | Xbox,Windows Live - ThatBEN
That is not actually a thing.
Every leaked and quite a few official gameplay videos have shown the obscenely long kill times. So yes, it unfortunately is a thing.
I was in the beta and it was a pretty big thing.
There's not really any need to silence that opinion either. It's beta, it's the time to say "hey this is kinda boring" and a lot of people are. I'm not saying the game is guaranteed to be like that at release.
I don't care.
Yes they did, unless there is a gross disparity between classes that leads to massively increased kill times between classes.
I had heard that inbetween CBT1 and CBT2 mob TTK was raised as well due to people saying it was too easy. So there's that to consider also
"...only mights and maybes."
Sure bro. No need to be a goose.
I stated an experience I had with the game - an experience I openly stated may not and likely will not be a part of the finished product - and made my opinions clear. When you offered a dissenting opinion, presumably based on your own opinions, I stood by what I said and offered the possibility that class balance was presently in a state which lead to differing experiences. People chimed in to mention that there were differing experiences between phases of the beta test which further would help explain how two people could have different opinions.
I'm not alone in my feelings though. People in this thread have said "yeah looks slow". People in other forums have stated that they felt mob HP was very high. You're free to say "I did not experience that" but let's not invent some story where I'm lying or something just to make a scene. I experienced high mob HP without threat to my own health, the time to kill was long, and I was bored. You didn't get that. That's cool! That's fine. Don't tell me that I didn't experience what I did though.
:^:
People (especially those who've actually played the game) should feel like this is a free and safe space to discuss their opinions on the game, whether or not it reflects poorly on said game.
And yes, beta is beta...but how many times have we seen something that "is sure to get fixed by release" not get fixed, right?
I was talking about the you not caring about beta rules.
They have these rules for a reason.
It's pretty goosey to nonchalantly dismiss the rules that you agreed to.
That's what I meant.
Sorry for the confusion.
I also was never talking about the battles feeling too long or anything like that. I was referring to whether or not lvl 1 mobs took 30 seconds to kill. Whether or not that is true is not an opinion but a fact. I'm saying I'm pretty certain that is not a fact.
Whether or not that ends up being good or bad or changed or not will come as we go into the next phase of beta and can yell at Carbine to do something about it if we think it sucks, and cancel pre-orders or whatnot if they choose not to fix it. I haven't decided if it's good or bad yet until I've actually tried it as it might end up being not a big deal, or the AoE focus might make it better, or the combat being enjoyable might even make each fight fun. In terms of how long each fight takes, you have to ask yourself, is the combat fun? Is there something I'd rather be doing or is this a good use of my time? If it's not, then should I be playing or looking forward to this game or yelling at Carbine to change it, etc.
In of itself, by the time a software team is calling something "beta", odds are they're pretty sure they have the base design nailed down, and are doing doing minor number tweaks. Odds are they intend mobs to take longer to kill, since it's pretty fucking hard to fuck up the math of "An average attack does at level X does Y damage, a level X mob should have an average HP of Z, Z/Y*(GCD)=TTK" and then building around that. Wildstar's devs seem a bit attached to "how MMOs are supposed be!" design, which means throwbacks to old-school design, which means return to tedious bullshit, such as hard to kill mobs and long tedious level grinding.
You'd think MMO devs at this point would learn that long drawn out fights with basic mobs aren't really fun to fight, and move away from that. In general, basic mobs are boring unless you fighting them in hordes and/or blowing throw them.
Then again, this was the team that threw out "30s seconds to kill a player in PvP" and were surprised when people jumped on them for throwing it out there(it is/was way too short), so I'm not sure they're fully learning what other MMOs and games have taught us.