Thinking of scams, a little off-topic, but what boggles my mind is that it feels like 50% of all Internet ads are for teeth whitening or get weight loss or look younger schemes, and it's always the same ads over and over again. I'm not sure if that indicates an ongoing catastrophe of epic proportions wherein so many people fall for them that the scammers are able to keep buying ads legitimately, or whether ad delivery providers are just gullible too.
I have actually wondered about this a lot, it is very surprising to me how many of the ads on even fairly legitimate sites are obvious scams/bullshit artists. I would think that the owners of mainstream sites would recognize that having an ad that tries to scam your readers lowers the quality of your site as a whole. It seems like the way PA does banners makes for a much better advertising model, but I don't know what other economic forces might be at work there.
So, here would be my rule of thumb. If a job interview consists entirely of being pitched a product and told how much money other people have "made" selling it and almost nothing is asked about you, run away. Possibly slash tires on your way out.
This is the key. A legitimate company wants to know if YOU are right for THEM. MLM shops only care that you have a wallet and a pulse.
I pretty much start any job interview by asking "is this W2 or 1099 status?"
If I get a wishy-washy answer, I might ask "is there a fixed weekly schedule?"
That doesn't just protect me from MLM shops, but from sketchy "contract" jobs that are endemic to IT.
Key sign that it's a scam?
They're begging me to sign up for a sales job, even though I have no sales experience.
The funniest thing about MLM scams is that they seem to target people who either don't seem to know that the internet exists, or they don't realize that youtube and facebook or twitter are free.
"Oh, this is a new business model, we're avoiding overhead costs on brick and mortar sales!" Okay. You can set up an online store for $50/month. Why would a legitimate company be hiring strangers off the street for direct sales?
"Oh, we want viral marketing. So we'll pay you to talk about us on social media." If your product was any good, then people would be talking about your product for free.
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CaptainPeacockBoard Game HoarderTop o' the LakeRegistered Userregular
BTW, I really wish that they taught "How to avoid scams" in high school.
And how to balance a goddamn checkbook.
And how to make a home budget.
Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
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ShivahnUnaware of her barrel shifter privilegeWestern coastal temptressRegistered User, Moderatormod
Basic finance stuff should absolutely be taught in high school, with a two week unit on "credit cards: fuck those things" and "how credit card companies and banks want to sell your organs to China."
Thinking of scams, a little off-topic, but what boggles my mind is that it feels like 50% of all Internet ads are for teeth whitening or get weight loss or look younger schemes, and it's always the same ads over and over again. I'm not sure if that indicates an ongoing catastrophe of epic proportions wherein so many people fall for them that the scammers are able to keep buying ads legitimately, or whether ad delivery providers are just gullible too.
I have actually wondered about this a lot, it is very surprising to me how many of the ads on even fairly legitimate sites are obvious scams/bullshit artists. I would think that the owners of mainstream sites would recognize that having an ad that tries to scam your readers lowers the quality of your site as a whole. It seems like the way PA does banners makes for a much better advertising model, but I don't know what other economic forces might be at work there.
If you see a little blue triangle on the ads themselves that means its actually an 'AdChoices' ad and is based off of your cookies/browsing history rather than anything being directly sold by ad-ops. So if you don't actually have a marketing department, or have sufficient ad churn that you can't fill every spot with something relevant every time then you'll get a lot of those.
...so what I'm saying is that I guess all that latex fetish porn just makes algorithms think you want to look thin and bleached.
Many states have financial courses as part of high school graduation requirements now (Ohio). I teach at a high school all of the kids have to take "Financial literacy" but they take it as freshman and probably don't get a lot from it. I think the hardest part of teaching kids about money is they have no concept of it. Ask a 17 year old how much a typical middle class house costs and it will be in the millions. Lots of high school kids make $8 and think they're living the dream because they don't have legitimate expenses.
I wandered into this most interested on finding info on clear proof of the scam nature of these things, but it's pretty tough. I once had a colleague, a person with a degree in science, pushing a fuel additive (I think it was "FORCE" I made a thread about it back in the day) and could just not find the silver bullet to shut her down. This past year one of my students got involved with an energy drink scam, apparently a former student started recruiting high school kids.
I like the argument "if they're not asking you to demonstrate some skill, why should you work for them?" but it's tough to tell a high school kid "you literally have on demonstrable skills to this company" without making them want to dig in deeper.
Ah, MLM scams. I used to have customers try and recruit me when I worked in retail, probably because they smelt the desperation.
Before I got my current job, though, I interviewed for an insurance firm that made it seem like an MLM scam in the worst way. They brought me in to interview for an HR position, but when I got to the office it was full of other interviewees, all for sales positions. They were just grinding through applicants all day, and they were desperate to get me to stay even after I told them I wasn't looking for a sales position, that I wasn't good at sales, and that I wouldn't take a sales position if it was offered to me.
All they talked about was money, and you wouldn't get paid a base rate, just commissions. Of course, they made it seem like it would be so easy to make commissions, and that selling life insurance is easy and blah blah blah. There was a lot of Jesus talk, too, but for a seemingly legit insurance company (and I did look up the company before I went to the interview), this particular office was hella scammy.
I wish there was a way to drive actual MLM scams out of business, as they're pathetic in poaching on the desperate.
Thinking of scams, a little off-topic, but what boggles my mind is that it feels like 50% of all Internet ads are for teeth whitening or get weight loss or look younger schemes, and it's always the same ads over and over again. I'm not sure if that indicates an ongoing catastrophe of epic proportions wherein so many people fall for them that the scammers are able to keep buying ads legitimately, or whether ad delivery providers are just gullible too.
I have actually wondered about this a lot, it is very surprising to me how many of the ads on even fairly legitimate sites are obvious scams/bullshit artists. I would think that the owners of mainstream sites would recognize that having an ad that tries to scam your readers lowers the quality of your site as a whole. It seems like the way PA does banners makes for a much better advertising model, but I don't know what other economic forces might be at work there.
If you see a little blue triangle on the ads themselves that means its actually an 'AdChoices' ad and is based off of your cookies/browsing history rather than anything being directly sold by ad-ops. So if you don't actually have a marketing department, or have sufficient ad churn that you can't fill every spot with something relevant every time then you'll get a lot of those.
...so what I'm saying is that I guess all that latex fetish porn just makes algorithms think you want to look thin and bleached.
I get that. What I'm saying is, people put ad-space on their sites for revenue. Whether they go through Google or anyone else for ads, they're selling space. If it's a weight loss/teeth whitening/look young/whatever else ad, either A) those ads are being put up even though the ad company knows that no revenue will be generated, or they actually do generate enough revenue to pay for the ads. If it's A, then the ad company isn't getting paid, and the site hosting the ad isn't getting paid. And someone is being stupid at some point along the line. If it's B, then people are terrifyingly easy to sell to.
Civics is not a consumer product that you can ignore because you don’t like the options presented.
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MrVyngaardLive From New EtoileStraight Outta SosariaRegistered Userregular
A former assistant manager I worked under once tried to get me into one of these. Ended up going to one of their meetings to see what they were on about. It took place curiously enough in the side room of a church during off hours.
The first thing that it reminded me of was a commercial variation on The Fellowship.
"now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
Thinking of scams, a little off-topic, but what boggles my mind is that it feels like 50% of all Internet ads are for teeth whitening or get weight loss or look younger schemes, and it's always the same ads over and over again. I'm not sure if that indicates an ongoing catastrophe of epic proportions wherein so many people fall for them that the scammers are able to keep buying ads legitimately, or whether ad delivery providers are just gullible too.
I have actually wondered about this a lot, it is very surprising to me how many of the ads on even fairly legitimate sites are obvious scams/bullshit artists. I would think that the owners of mainstream sites would recognize that having an ad that tries to scam your readers lowers the quality of your site as a whole. It seems like the way PA does banners makes for a much better advertising model, but I don't know what other economic forces might be at work there.
If you see a little blue triangle on the ads themselves that means its actually an 'AdChoices' ad and is based off of your cookies/browsing history rather than anything being directly sold by ad-ops. So if you don't actually have a marketing department, or have sufficient ad churn that you can't fill every spot with something relevant every time then you'll get a lot of those.
...so what I'm saying is that I guess all that latex fetish porn just makes algorithms think you want to look thin and bleached.
I get that. What I'm saying is, people put ad-space on their sites for revenue. Whether they go through Google or anyone else for ads, they're selling space. If it's a weight loss/teeth whitening/look young/whatever else ad, either A) those ads are being put up even though the ad company knows that no revenue will be generated, or they actually do generate enough revenue to pay for the ads. If it's A, then the ad company isn't getting paid, and the site hosting the ad isn't getting paid. And someone is being stupid at some point along the line. If it's B, then people are terrifyingly easy to sell to.
A little of column A and a little of column B.
Most sites don't make any real money on their ads.
The ad providers pay (and are payed) on a per click basis though, so if they put ads on enough sites they make decent money, even if they're making pennies per day per site.
It's like spam. It's so cheap to send out, it doesn't matter if you succeed literally one in a million times; you send out half a billion or more e-mails a day. Really really.
That is how I thought it worked but there is a guy whom I really made an enemy of everyone of work over because I did not trust him {he does Amway stuff}
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
As much as I look I can't find anything that points out Melaluca as a flat out scam. When my mom got into buying their shit, it raised a red flag but so far I can't find much on them.
Basic finance stuff should absolutely be taught in high school, with a two week unit on "credit cards: fuck those things" and "how credit card companies and banks want to sell your organs to China."
I graduated in 2002, and we had this lesson in every math class for 3 years of high school. (we literally had 2 weeks on 'jesus christ dont use credit cards you idiots') We had balancing a checkbook for every year since middle school. Same with making a budget. I know my nephew had all this too, in another state and he just graduated 2 years ago. So I always see this getting said, but I never understood if people just dont listen in school, or if these two states are magical somehow that they teach relevant things. and to clarify half of my schooling was in a good area, but his was not.
edit: In 8th'ish grade, they taught us how to do federal taxes, then made us do a basic federal return by hand given a fake income amount. In practice and on a quiz/test.
BTW, I really wish that they taught "How to avoid scams" in high school.
And how to balance a goddamn checkbook.
And how to make a home budget.
Ch-eck-book? What is that? Is that something that my grandma has?
Teaching kids to balance checkbooks is about as useful as teaching them how to repair a rotary phone.
Though overall budgeting is a good idea.
In the more rural areas around here, you can only pay your utilities by check. They refuse cash and credit. The local power overlords who just buy a chunk of power and resell it for a profit? They only recently switched from paper filing systems to getting computers to check records. Check books are still really relevant.
Basic finance stuff should absolutely be taught in high school, with a two week unit on "credit cards: fuck those things" and "how credit card companies and banks want to sell your organs to China."
I graduated in 2002, and we had this lesson in every math class for 3 years of high school. (we literally had 2 weeks on 'jesus christ dont use credit cards you idiots') We had balancing a checkbook for every year since middle school. Same with making a budget. I know my nephew had all this too, in another state and he just graduated 2 years ago. So I always see this getting said, but I never understood if people just dont listen in school, or if these two states are magical somehow that they teach relevant things. and to clarify half of my schooling was in a good area, but his was not.
edit: In 8th'ish grade, they taught us how to do federal taxes, then made us do a basic federal return by hand given a fake income amount. In practice and on a quiz/test.
I recall we had some of this in 10th grade Economics. We spent at least a good two weeks on basic "home" economics, in the "checkbooks and interest rates" sense. Probably another two weeks on investing-related stuff. Only about half the class was your normal "supply and demand curves ad nauseum" you'd expect from a high school econ course.
Had one class where you had to balance a check book, once
finance education was shit though
thankfully I got a good education in the traps from wobbling through socioeconomic statuses for a while and seeing a good cross section of the bottom to the middle, and boy howdy does the bottom suck. Everything exists to steal your money, everything charges you fees for not having enough money, etc
BTW, I really wish that they taught "How to avoid scams" in high school.
And how to balance a goddamn checkbook.
And how to make a home budget.
so many necessary skills would have been great to have learned in high school. but no, my school spent 3 months on a Shakespeare play every year in mandatory English classes.
# of times it became necessary for me in real life to recall facts from Hamlet: 0
Go in, get the girl, kill the dragon. What's so hard about that? ... Oh, so THAT'S what a dragon looks like.
One of my coworkers is trying to sell one of my other coworkers on Arbonne, which I hadn't heard of but which looks pretty scammy from what I saw when I looked into it. I'm debating whether to warn the potential victim, because her financial situation right now is shit and she's kind of desperate, and the amount of money she'll have to pay upfront is the sort of money that she probably doesn't want to be throwing away on stupid MLM schemes.
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
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SirUltimosDon't talk, Rusty. Just paint.Registered Userregular
The worst part about these scams is how easy it is to sucked into them if you're truly desperate. Once you've hit bottom like they actually start sounding like good ideas.
Basic finance stuff should absolutely be taught in high school, with a two week unit on "credit cards: fuck those things" and "how credit card companies and banks want to sell your organs to China."
If you pay your credit card on time, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't use it to actually BORROW money. For what it's worth, I know for a fact that most credit card companies do not make any profit on your business if you pay your balance in full when it's due. (I know this because I worked in finance and have valued credit card portfolios for major companies before).
Even though I am not a MLM fan, I feel obligated to mention that a good friend of mine from grad school made ~50k selling CutCo knives (over about 2 months). There was some nationwide contest on who could sell the most in a month and he won. They gave him a giant TV and an iPhone and some other crap along with his massive commission. After the initial (HUGE) rush of sales he was unable to maintain that rate though. Now he works corporate sales in NYC.
Yeah I find it hard to try and talk to people about stuff like this. It becomes like a cult, once you are in, its impossible to convince someone to get out because then they have to admit their ignorance/folly.
As much as I look I can't find anything that points out Melaluca as a flat out scam. When my mom got into buying their shit, it raised a red flag but so far I can't find much on them.
That is because it isn't a scam. It IS however a MLM based company.
My experiences with Melaleuca:
You pay a 1 time sign up fee ($25 or so, I signed up during a recruitment drive so only paid $1), then you get $150 of free product spread out over 6 months to encourage you to try out the different products. Compare the member prices of the products to the same products at the store and you will see that you are getting a bargain (they save money by not adding perfumes and water to their products, as well as by not having to advertise). And every product of theirs that I've used has performed better than any brand name store bought product I've found. But I'm not that invested in it, though I am familiar with family friends who after signing up have spent a year or so networking to sign people up part time and began earning more from Melaleuca than their regular jobs.
Thinking of scams, a little off-topic, but what boggles my mind is that it feels like 50% of all Internet ads are for teeth whitening or get weight loss or look younger schemes, and it's always the same ads over and over again. I'm not sure if that indicates an ongoing catastrophe of epic proportions wherein so many people fall for them that the scammers are able to keep buying ads legitimately, or whether ad delivery providers are just gullible too.
Man, all I know is that there are a LOT of moms pissing off a LOT of professionals with their simple $5 skin youthening/stock suggesting/fat eliminating/mars rover creating/whateverthefuck.
Apparently moms are like Steve Jobs meets MacGyver when it comes to doing things at roughly one-thousandth the usual cost.
But they need my $25 to actually tell me how its done.
I guess we all should've called home more.
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
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tuxkamenreally took this picture.Registered Userregular
Basic finance stuff should absolutely be taught in high school, with a two week unit on "credit cards: fuck those things" and "how credit card companies and banks want to sell your organs to China."
If you pay your credit card on time, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't use it to actually BORROW money. For what it's worth, I know for a fact that most credit card companies do not make any profit on your business if you pay your balance in full when it's due. (I know this because I worked in finance and have valued credit card portfolios for major companies before).
I can't stress enough how important this is. As long as you understand that credit card companies want you to spend more than you can afford and you don't do it, you will be fine treating it as a delayed, summarized bill of your monthly expenses. Understandably, this approach isn't for everybody, but the 'willpower' save you need to make isn't really any different; if you are checking your debit card balance regularly to understand how much you have left, nothing stops you from also checking your credit card balance regularly to understand how much you are on the hook for the month. In paying it off monthly, you build up your credit rating and history, and it can be done without needing the actual 'credit' part.
Even though I am not a MLM fan, I feel obligated to mention that a good friend of mine from grad school made ~50k selling CutCo knives (over about 2 months). There was some nationwide contest on who could sell the most in a month and he won. They gave him a giant TV and an iPhone and some other crap along with his massive commission. After the initial (HUGE) rush of sales he was unable to maintain that rate though. Now he works corporate sales in NYC.
Regardless of whether it's scammy or not, the one Cutco knife we got (as a gift) is bar-none the best knife we currently have. I wouldn't go and buy a full set if some kid showed up on our doorstep, but if there was a special on steak knives I'd be tempted...
As much as I look I can't find anything that points out Melaluca as a flat out scam. When my mom got into buying their shit, it raised a red flag but so far I can't find much on them.
But I'm not that invested in it, though I am familiar with family friends who after signing up have spent a year or so networking to sign people up part time and began earning more from Melaleuca than their regular jobs.
I don't know anything about your particular friends obviously. But one thing that always seems ridiculously obvious when talking to MLM people is that they always want you to think that they're making more from it than they are. One person I met with could not shut up about their vacation home on the lake, vacations, etc, even when I wasn't asking. I'd bet money that if I saw her tax returns, she wasn't netting half as much as she implied.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
Basic finance stuff should absolutely be taught in high school, with a two week unit on "credit cards: fuck those things" and "how credit card companies and banks want to sell your organs to China."
If you pay your credit card on time, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't use it to actually BORROW money. For what it's worth, I know for a fact that most credit card companies do not make any profit on your business if you pay your balance in full when it's due. (I know this because I worked in finance and have valued credit card portfolios for major companies before).
I can't stress enough how important this is. As long as you understand that credit card companies want you to spend more than you can afford and you don't do it, you will be fine treating it as a delayed, summarized bill of your monthly expenses. Understandably, this approach isn't for everybody, but the 'willpower' save you need to make isn't really any different; if you are checking your debit card balance regularly to understand how much you have left, nothing stops you from also checking your credit card balance regularly to understand how much you are on the hook for the month. In paying it off monthly, you build up your credit rating and history, and it can be done without needing the actual 'credit' part.
Even though I am not a MLM fan, I feel obligated to mention that a good friend of mine from grad school made ~50k selling CutCo knives (over about 2 months). There was some nationwide contest on who could sell the most in a month and he won. They gave him a giant TV and an iPhone and some other crap along with his massive commission. After the initial (HUGE) rush of sales he was unable to maintain that rate though. Now he works corporate sales in NYC.
Regardless of whether it's scammy or not, the one Cutco knife we got (as a gift) is bar-none the best knife we currently have. I wouldn't go and buy a full set if some kid showed up on our doorstep, but if there was a special on steak knives I'd be tempted...
Cutco makes a quality product, but it is overpriced for what it is. I have a couple steak knives and a cheese knife and they are great, but I know I overpaid for them.
Basic finance stuff should absolutely be taught in high school, with a two week unit on "credit cards: fuck those things" and "how credit card companies and banks want to sell your organs to China."
If you pay your credit card on time, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't use it to actually BORROW money. For what it's worth, I know for a fact that most credit card companies do not make any profit on your business if you pay your balance in full when it's due. (I know this because I worked in finance and have valued credit card portfolios for major companies before).
I can't stress enough how important this is. As long as you understand that credit card companies want you to spend more than you can afford and you don't do it, you will be fine treating it as a delayed, summarized bill of your monthly expenses. Understandably, this approach isn't for everybody, but the 'willpower' save you need to make isn't really any different; if you are checking your debit card balance regularly to understand how much you have left, nothing stops you from also checking your credit card balance regularly to understand how much you are on the hook for the month. In paying it off monthly, you build up your credit rating and history, and it can be done without needing the actual 'credit' part.
Even though I am not a MLM fan, I feel obligated to mention that a good friend of mine from grad school made ~50k selling CutCo knives (over about 2 months). There was some nationwide contest on who could sell the most in a month and he won. They gave him a giant TV and an iPhone and some other crap along with his massive commission. After the initial (HUGE) rush of sales he was unable to maintain that rate though. Now he works corporate sales in NYC.
Regardless of whether it's scammy or not, the one Cutco knife we got (as a gift) is bar-none the best knife we currently have. I wouldn't go and buy a full set if some kid showed up on our doorstep, but if there was a special on steak knives I'd be tempted...
Cutco makes a quality product, but it is overpriced for what it is. I have a couple steak knives and a cheese knife and they are great, but I know I overpaid for them.
Yeah, I think that's the difference. Some of the MLM businesses sell real products that are actually nice. I think that goes a long way because it's easier to sell products you believe in. My CutCo friend is still a true believer in the quality of those damn knives.
No, the real difference is that Cutco was founded in 1949, before there was ever any such thing as free advertising on the internet. So the idea of direct sales was considered a legitimate marketing strategy back then.
If Cutco was founded today, they would not rely on a direct sales or multi-level marketing.
Basic finance stuff should absolutely be taught in high school, with a two week unit on "credit cards: fuck those things" and "how credit card companies and banks want to sell your organs to China."
I graduated in 2002, and we had this lesson in every math class for 3 years of high school. (we literally had 2 weeks on 'jesus christ dont use credit cards you idiots') We had balancing a checkbook for every year since middle school. Same with making a budget. I know my nephew had all this too, in another state and he just graduated 2 years ago. So I always see this getting said, but I never understood if people just dont listen in school, or if these two states are magical somehow that they teach relevant things. and to clarify half of my schooling was in a good area, but his was not.
edit: In 8th'ish grade, they taught us how to do federal taxes, then made us do a basic federal return by hand given a fake income amount. In practice and on a quiz/test.
BTW, I really wish that they taught "How to avoid scams" in high school.
And how to balance a goddamn checkbook.
And how to make a home budget.
Ch-eck-book? What is that? Is that something that my grandma has?
Teaching kids to balance checkbooks is about as useful as teaching them how to repair a rotary phone.
Though overall budgeting is a good idea.
In the more rural areas around here, you can only pay your utilities by check. They refuse cash and credit. The local power overlords who just buy a chunk of power and resell it for a profit? They only recently switched from paper filing systems to getting computers to check records. Check books are still really relevant.
They charge an extra fee for the convinence of credit and I would not trust paying any of my bills around here in cash
I am rather curious as it was drilled into my head in various classes about making a budget even if it was going to be fairly loose. Do they even teach anything in public school the people I work with just out of high school seem to prove they do not
I have to get some knives but I find it appalling the quality of them for the price
Ah, yes, pyram....I mean... MLM schemes. I've had many run-ins with these over the years, none of them voluntary. Had to rescue someone close to me from one, and saw some former co-workers turn to the dark side.
Haven't had someone try to pitch this bullshit to me in a while, though. I'd have some fun with it, tell them this sounds great, and I think I can get some friends who work at the State AG's office on board with it. Then pointedly ask for a few copies of their business card.
Zoku Gojira on
"Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are." - Bertolt Brecht
These schemes also tend to hurt legitimate businesses, basically acting in a parasitic manner on informal networks within other companies. Being asked to buy a knife set from your boss or co-worker could hurt your professional relationship, being coerced to could expose a business to risk of lawsuits.
The biggest problem is that the sales pitches act as though getting family, friends and co-workers to buy these items or join is just fine and they should thank you for it, so people get exploited, their relationships suffer and then they are left with debts to the company.
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
As much as I look I can't find anything that points out Melaluca as a flat out scam. When my mom got into buying their shit, it raised a red flag but so far I can't find much on them.
But I'm not that invested in it, though I am familiar with family friends who after signing up have spent a year or so networking to sign people up part time and began earning more from Melaleuca than their regular jobs.
I don't know anything about your particular friends obviously. But one thing that always seems ridiculously obvious when talking to MLM people is that they always want you to think that they're making more from it than they are. One person I met with could not shut up about their vacation home on the lake, vacations, etc, even when I wasn't asking. I'd bet money that if I saw her tax returns, she wasn't netting half as much as she implied.
Well, the family friends deal was she was going to do it on the side while working her regular job, and as soon as she started making more from that then her regular job, she would quit and do it full time. That took roughly a year for her to do, and she was making a pretty decent salary as a full time preschool teacher. Now she is at the point where her residual income is even bigger and she gets the lease on her car paid for her in full as well as a number of other perks. Of course I know other people that try to do Avon, and they are basically treading water and have to do so much more work for so much less payoff its kinda surprising, and the Avon products really arent that good from my experience.
As much as I look I can't find anything that points out Melaluca as a flat out scam. When my mom got into buying their shit, it raised a red flag but so far I can't find much on them.
But I'm not that invested in it, though I am familiar with family friends who after signing up have spent a year or so networking to sign people up part time and began earning more from Melaleuca than their regular jobs.
I don't know anything about your particular friends obviously. But one thing that always seems ridiculously obvious when talking to MLM people is that they always want you to think that they're making more from it than they are. One person I met with could not shut up about their vacation home on the lake, vacations, etc, even when I wasn't asking. I'd bet money that if I saw her tax returns, she wasn't netting half as much as she implied.
Well, the family friends deal was she was going to do it on the side while working her regular job, and as soon as she started making more from that then her regular job, she would quit and do it full time. That took roughly a year for her to do, and she was making a pretty decent salary as a full time preschool teacher. Now she is at the point where her residual income is even bigger and she gets the lease on her car paid for her in full as well as a number of other perks. Of course I know other people that try to do Avon, and they are basically treading water and have to do so much more work for so much less payoff its kinda surprising, and the Avon products really arent that good from my experience.
Most places that isn't really a great-paying job. I can see a well-motivated and talented MLM sales person beating a preschool teacher's income pretty easily.
Thinking of scams, a little off-topic, but what boggles my mind is that it feels like 50% of all Internet ads are for teeth whitening or get weight loss or look younger schemes, and it's always the same ads over and over again. I'm not sure if that indicates an ongoing catastrophe of epic proportions wherein so many people fall for them that the scammers are able to keep buying ads legitimately, or whether ad delivery providers are just gullible too.
Man, all I know is that there are a LOT of moms pissing off a LOT of professionals with their simple $5 skin youthening/stock suggesting/fat eliminating/mars rover creating/whateverthefuck.
Apparently moms are like Steve Jobs meets MacGyver when it comes to doing things at roughly one-thousandth the usual cost.
But they need my $25 to actually tell me how its done.
I guess we all should've called home more.
But big companies hate them! they must be onto something right?
Basic finance stuff should absolutely be taught in high school, with a two week unit on "credit cards: fuck those things" and "how credit card companies and banks want to sell your organs to China."
I graduated in 2002, and we had this lesson in every math class for 3 years of high school. (we literally had 2 weeks on 'jesus christ dont use credit cards you idiots') We had balancing a checkbook for every year since middle school. Same with making a budget. I know my nephew had all this too, in another state and he just graduated 2 years ago. So I always see this getting said, but I never understood if people just dont listen in school, or if these two states are magical somehow that they teach relevant things. and to clarify half of my schooling was in a good area, but his was not.
edit: In 8th'ish grade, they taught us how to do federal taxes, then made us do a basic federal return by hand given a fake income amount. In practice and on a quiz/test.
BTW, I really wish that they taught "How to avoid scams" in high school.
And how to balance a goddamn checkbook.
And how to make a home budget.
Ch-eck-book? What is that? Is that something that my grandma has?
Teaching kids to balance checkbooks is about as useful as teaching them how to repair a rotary phone.
Though overall budgeting is a good idea.
In the more rural areas around here, you can only pay your utilities by check. They refuse cash and credit. The local power overlords who just buy a chunk of power and resell it for a profit? They only recently switched from paper filing systems to getting computers to check records. Check books are still really relevant.
They charge an extra fee for the convinence of credit and I would not trust paying any of my bills around here in cash
I am rather curious as it was drilled into my head in various classes about making a budget even if it was going to be fairly loose. Do they even teach anything in public school the people I work with just out of high school seem to prove they do not
I have to get some knives but I find it appalling the quality of them for the price
I think there is a bigger issue with consumerist culture we have, where if you dont own the newest most expensive thing you are losing. It seems that noone understands that when you get money, you do actually need to save some of it.
My nephew who I stated had the education above, falls into this, he has like 15 pairs of sneakers all bought in the last 2 years. I call it the "swag" generation, but frankly I remember people from my high school after graduating being the same way. He had to raise money for something he actually needed, so he started taking stuff to pawn shops. It's like this joke of the guy at pawn stars with a mona lisa who never heard of the internet: Linked for size
Just add "craigslist" to that.
edit: this is wildly off topic... whoops. I did interview with cutco, but realized what I would be doing and didnt show for the training/job. Everyone I know swears by them, but says there really over priced and not to buy them.
Avon isn't completely worthless, they make this one moisturizer that has a small amount of deet in it but manages to not smell or feel terrible and basically all southern women in this mosquito ridden hellhole that is Alabama buy it and swear by it.
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I have actually wondered about this a lot, it is very surprising to me how many of the ads on even fairly legitimate sites are obvious scams/bullshit artists. I would think that the owners of mainstream sites would recognize that having an ad that tries to scam your readers lowers the quality of your site as a whole. It seems like the way PA does banners makes for a much better advertising model, but I don't know what other economic forces might be at work there.
I'm also annoyed that the cooking class only teaches people dessert making, and not actual cooking.
Which is why any time you attend a potluck in America, half the people bring dessert. Because that's literally the only thing they know to make.
Key sign that it's a scam?
They're begging me to sign up for a sales job, even though I have no sales experience.
"Oh, this is a new business model, we're avoiding overhead costs on brick and mortar sales!" Okay. You can set up an online store for $50/month. Why would a legitimate company be hiring strangers off the street for direct sales?
"Oh, we want viral marketing. So we'll pay you to talk about us on social media." If your product was any good, then people would be talking about your product for free.
And how to make a home budget.
Ch-eck-book? What is that? Is that something that my grandma has?
Teaching kids to balance checkbooks is about as useful as teaching them how to repair a rotary phone.
Though overall budgeting is a good idea.
If you see a little blue triangle on the ads themselves that means its actually an 'AdChoices' ad and is based off of your cookies/browsing history rather than anything being directly sold by ad-ops. So if you don't actually have a marketing department, or have sufficient ad churn that you can't fill every spot with something relevant every time then you'll get a lot of those.
...so what I'm saying is that I guess all that latex fetish porn just makes algorithms think you want to look thin and bleached.
(Still didn't have finances taught anywhere. The closest we got was algebra II advanced having some stuff related to interest.)
I wandered into this most interested on finding info on clear proof of the scam nature of these things, but it's pretty tough. I once had a colleague, a person with a degree in science, pushing a fuel additive (I think it was "FORCE" I made a thread about it back in the day) and could just not find the silver bullet to shut her down. This past year one of my students got involved with an energy drink scam, apparently a former student started recruiting high school kids.
I like the argument "if they're not asking you to demonstrate some skill, why should you work for them?" but it's tough to tell a high school kid "you literally have on demonstrable skills to this company" without making them want to dig in deeper.
Before I got my current job, though, I interviewed for an insurance firm that made it seem like an MLM scam in the worst way. They brought me in to interview for an HR position, but when I got to the office it was full of other interviewees, all for sales positions. They were just grinding through applicants all day, and they were desperate to get me to stay even after I told them I wasn't looking for a sales position, that I wasn't good at sales, and that I wouldn't take a sales position if it was offered to me.
All they talked about was money, and you wouldn't get paid a base rate, just commissions. Of course, they made it seem like it would be so easy to make commissions, and that selling life insurance is easy and blah blah blah. There was a lot of Jesus talk, too, but for a seemingly legit insurance company (and I did look up the company before I went to the interview), this particular office was hella scammy.
I wish there was a way to drive actual MLM scams out of business, as they're pathetic in poaching on the desperate.
I get that. What I'm saying is, people put ad-space on their sites for revenue. Whether they go through Google or anyone else for ads, they're selling space. If it's a weight loss/teeth whitening/look young/whatever else ad, either A) those ads are being put up even though the ad company knows that no revenue will be generated, or
The first thing that it reminded me of was a commercial variation on The Fellowship.
A little of column A and a little of column B.
Most sites don't make any real money on their ads.
The ad providers pay (and are payed) on a per click basis though, so if they put ads on enough sites they make decent money, even if they're making pennies per day per site.
It's like spam. It's so cheap to send out, it doesn't matter if you succeed literally one in a million times; you send out half a billion or more e-mails a day. Really really.
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I graduated in 2002, and we had this lesson in every math class for 3 years of high school. (we literally had 2 weeks on 'jesus christ dont use credit cards you idiots') We had balancing a checkbook for every year since middle school. Same with making a budget. I know my nephew had all this too, in another state and he just graduated 2 years ago. So I always see this getting said, but I never understood if people just dont listen in school, or if these two states are magical somehow that they teach relevant things. and to clarify half of my schooling was in a good area, but his was not.
edit: In 8th'ish grade, they taught us how to do federal taxes, then made us do a basic federal return by hand given a fake income amount. In practice and on a quiz/test.
In the more rural areas around here, you can only pay your utilities by check. They refuse cash and credit. The local power overlords who just buy a chunk of power and resell it for a profit? They only recently switched from paper filing systems to getting computers to check records. Check books are still really relevant.
I recall we had some of this in 10th grade Economics. We spent at least a good two weeks on basic "home" economics, in the "checkbooks and interest rates" sense. Probably another two weeks on investing-related stuff. Only about half the class was your normal "supply and demand curves ad nauseum" you'd expect from a high school econ course.
finance education was shit though
thankfully I got a good education in the traps from wobbling through socioeconomic statuses for a while and seeing a good cross section of the bottom to the middle, and boy howdy does the bottom suck. Everything exists to steal your money, everything charges you fees for not having enough money, etc
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If you pay your credit card on time, there's nothing wrong with it. Just don't use it to actually BORROW money. For what it's worth, I know for a fact that most credit card companies do not make any profit on your business if you pay your balance in full when it's due. (I know this because I worked in finance and have valued credit card portfolios for major companies before).
Even though I am not a MLM fan, I feel obligated to mention that a good friend of mine from grad school made ~50k selling CutCo knives (over about 2 months). There was some nationwide contest on who could sell the most in a month and he won. They gave him a giant TV and an iPhone and some other crap along with his massive commission. After the initial (HUGE) rush of sales he was unable to maintain that rate though. Now he works corporate sales in NYC.
That is because it isn't a scam. It IS however a MLM based company.
My experiences with Melaleuca:
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Man, all I know is that there are a LOT of moms pissing off a LOT of professionals with their simple $5 skin youthening/stock suggesting/fat eliminating/mars rover creating/whateverthefuck.
Apparently moms are like Steve Jobs meets MacGyver when it comes to doing things at roughly one-thousandth the usual cost.
But they need my $25 to actually tell me how its done.
I guess we all should've called home more.
I can't stress enough how important this is. As long as you understand that credit card companies want you to spend more than you can afford and you don't do it, you will be fine treating it as a delayed, summarized bill of your monthly expenses. Understandably, this approach isn't for everybody, but the 'willpower' save you need to make isn't really any different; if you are checking your debit card balance regularly to understand how much you have left, nothing stops you from also checking your credit card balance regularly to understand how much you are on the hook for the month. In paying it off monthly, you build up your credit rating and history, and it can be done without needing the actual 'credit' part.
Regardless of whether it's scammy or not, the one Cutco knife we got (as a gift) is bar-none the best knife we currently have. I wouldn't go and buy a full set if some kid showed up on our doorstep, but if there was a special on steak knives I'd be tempted...
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I don't know anything about your particular friends obviously. But one thing that always seems ridiculously obvious when talking to MLM people is that they always want you to think that they're making more from it than they are. One person I met with could not shut up about their vacation home on the lake, vacations, etc, even when I wasn't asking. I'd bet money that if I saw her tax returns, she wasn't netting half as much as she implied.
Cutco makes a quality product, but it is overpriced for what it is. I have a couple steak knives and a cheese knife and they are great, but I know I overpaid for them.
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Yeah, I think that's the difference. Some of the MLM businesses sell real products that are actually nice. I think that goes a long way because it's easier to sell products you believe in. My CutCo friend is still a true believer in the quality of those damn knives.
If Cutco was founded today, they would not rely on a direct sales or multi-level marketing.
They charge an extra fee for the convinence of credit and I would not trust paying any of my bills around here in cash
I am rather curious as it was drilled into my head in various classes about making a budget even if it was going to be fairly loose. Do they even teach anything in public school the people I work with just out of high school seem to prove they do not
I have to get some knives but I find it appalling the quality of them for the price
Haven't had someone try to pitch this bullshit to me in a while, though. I'd have some fun with it, tell them this sounds great, and I think I can get some friends who work at the State AG's office on board with it. Then pointedly ask for a few copies of their business card.
These schemes also tend to hurt legitimate businesses, basically acting in a parasitic manner on informal networks within other companies. Being asked to buy a knife set from your boss or co-worker could hurt your professional relationship, being coerced to could expose a business to risk of lawsuits.
The biggest problem is that the sales pitches act as though getting family, friends and co-workers to buy these items or join is just fine and they should thank you for it, so people get exploited, their relationships suffer and then they are left with debts to the company.
Well, the family friends deal was she was going to do it on the side while working her regular job, and as soon as she started making more from that then her regular job, she would quit and do it full time. That took roughly a year for her to do, and she was making a pretty decent salary as a full time preschool teacher. Now she is at the point where her residual income is even bigger and she gets the lease on her car paid for her in full as well as a number of other perks. Of course I know other people that try to do Avon, and they are basically treading water and have to do so much more work for so much less payoff its kinda surprising, and the Avon products really arent that good from my experience.
MWO: Adamski
Most places that isn't really a great-paying job. I can see a well-motivated and talented MLM sales person beating a preschool teacher's income pretty easily.
But big companies hate them! they must be onto something right?
I think there is a bigger issue with consumerist culture we have, where if you dont own the newest most expensive thing you are losing. It seems that noone understands that when you get money, you do actually need to save some of it.
My nephew who I stated had the education above, falls into this, he has like 15 pairs of sneakers all bought in the last 2 years. I call it the "swag" generation, but frankly I remember people from my high school after graduating being the same way. He had to raise money for something he actually needed, so he started taking stuff to pawn shops. It's like this joke of the guy at pawn stars with a mona lisa who never heard of the internet: Linked for size
Just add "craigslist" to that.
edit: this is wildly off topic... whoops. I did interview with cutco, but realized what I would be doing and didnt show for the training/job. Everyone I know swears by them, but says there really over priced and not to buy them.