Mike Danger"Diane..."a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered Userregular
edited April 2013
The scene in the pilot where the CSI guy explains what a shrike is is so bizarre. It's like Fuller didn't want Graham to not know about this bird, but wanted the CSI guy to explain it to him, so we get this scene where the shrike gets mentioned, Graham says something like "oh, like the bird?" and the CSI guy just goes full steam ahead into explaining everything to no one in particular.
Well said Mike...It's that kind of stuff. Doesn't ruin the show. But I could do with less of those guys. The Following has done the exact same thing and it just feels like every other crime show out there.
Well said Mike...It's that kind of stuff. Doesn't ruin the show. But I could do with less of those guys. The Following has done the exact same thing and it just feels like every other crime show out there.
NEVERMORE MAN ITS FROM THE RAVEN DONT YOU SEE
But yeah. That's standard network shit. But like you said, it's not nearly bad enough to ruin the show. Those scenes go by, then Lecter is back on screen and it's awesome again.
The scene in the pilot where the CSI guy explains what a shrike is is so bizarre. It's like Fuller didn't want Graham to not know about this bird, but wanted the CSI guy to explain it to him, so we get this scene where the shrike gets mentioned, Graham says something like "oh, like the bird?" and the CSI guy just goes full steam ahead into explaining everything to no one in particular.
The show's only flaw in my opinion is the CSI people (especially that woman, she's awful). I'm only tolerating them in the hopes that they'll eaten in the future.
I thought the shrike thing was interesting. Newspapers in the Harrisverse are always oddly literate with their serial killer names, it adds a nice flair to things.
If they had cast Phillip Seymour Hoffman to play Freddy Lounds in the show like he did in the Red Dragon movie, that would've been the best, but I don't see him doing TV ever unless it's like a huge HBO drama or something. I do like the character on the show as well so far.
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mojojoeoA block off the park, living the dream.Registered Userregular
The scene in the pilot where the CSI guy explains what a shrike is is so bizarre. It's like Fuller didn't want Graham to not know about this bird, but wanted the CSI guy to explain it to him, so we get this scene where the shrike gets mentioned, Graham says something like "oh, like the bird?" and the CSI guy just goes full steam ahead into explaining everything to no one in particular.
The show's only flaw in my opinion is the CSI people (especially that woman, she's awful). I'm only tolerating them in the hopes that they'll eaten in the future.
I thought the shrike thing was interesting. Newspapers in the Harrisverse are always oddly literate with their serial killer names, it adds a nice flair to things.
I hate her too. couldnt put me finger on it... maybe its just that she's aweful. the one guy doesnt say much so he's fine. The other guy is scott thompson, he doesn't say much either. I think the girl is the issue.
Hannibal is played perfectly I think. Not the same as Anthony Hopkins but this guy just gives me the creeps and I love watching him.
Yup. I love when the pilot action breaks out they let Hannibal cooly hang back vs running him in there too. Poorer writing would have had him running in there too.
Maybe doing karate, or samurai shit like his lover/aunt from Hannibal rising taught him. Or maybe rising is best forgotten.
But Mads is rocking this out. The scene with the tattler reporter was pretty awesome.
mojojoeo on
Chief Wiggum: "Ladies, please. All our founding fathers, astronauts, and World Series heroes have been either drunk or on cocaine."
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zepherinRussian warship, go fuck yourselfRegistered Userregular
I would like to take a moment to compare this to the following.
I like the following, I find the show entertaining, and as long as I put on a cap of heavy suspension of disbelief (there are many things to ignore), the show is entertaining.
Hannibal is just so much better. The following has this sort of Deus Ex Machina concept where there is a mole when they need one to makeup for writing themselves into corners. Hannibal just seams to flow naturally, the way the show and script work I don't think they are going to need the same contrivences.
The relationship between Joe Caroll and Ryan Hardy is good, even compelling, but the relationship between Hannibal and Wil is better.
If I didn't know that the following was produced first, I would accuse the show of being a knock off.
This is definitely the Will and Hannibal show. No matter what else comes into it, they will keep it compelling for me just because I like the way both characters are being played.
@zepherin - I agree. I was hooked on The Following after the pilot. But i didn't even finish the latest ep. It seems to have lost steam fast. Kevin bacon is definitely the bright spot for that show.
The Following is awful. It had huge promise, and they shit on it all. It's just written so awfully. Every episode they find a new way to make you roll your eyes so hard they fall out of your head with all the bullshit. OMG guys I love Poe and our cool cult has infiltrated every level of the government and now we prison break and it's impossible to find us.
Not to mention, they focus so little on Carroll versus Hardy and just spend every episode on the dumbass follower characters that nobody cares about. My wife and I have a policy where if we make it past the pilot of a show, we will watch the entire first season before judging whether we will continue.
Rubicon is the only show up to this point we stopped watching before the first season ended. The Following will probably be the second.
It just makes how good Hannibal has been so far even more satisfying though, so there's that at least.
The scene in the pilot where the CSI guy explains what a shrike is is so bizarre. It's like Fuller didn't want Graham to not know about this bird, but wanted the CSI guy to explain it to him, so we get this scene where the shrike gets mentioned, Graham says something like "oh, like the bird?" and the CSI guy just goes full steam ahead into explaining everything to no one in particular.
The show's only flaw in my opinion is the CSI people (especially that woman, she's awful). I'm only tolerating them in the hopes that they'll eaten in the future.
I thought the shrike thing was interesting. Newspapers in the Harrisverse are always oddly literate with their serial killer names, it adds a nice flair to things.
I hate her too. couldnt put me finger on it... maybe its just that she's aweful. the one guy doesnt say much so he's fine. The other guy is scott thompson, he doesn't say much either. I think the girl is the issue.
Hannibal is played perfectly I think. Not the same as Anthony Hopkins but this guy just gives me the creeps and I love watching him.
Yup. I love when the pilot action breaks out they let Hannibal cooly hang back vs running him in there too. Poorer writing would have had him running in there too.
Maybe doing karate, or samurai shit like his lover/aunt from Hannibal rising taught him. Or maybe rising is best forgotten.
But Mads is rocking this out. The scene with the tattler reporter was pretty awesome.
They need to throw out that animal controlling garbage Hannibal did from Hannibal: The Movie while they're at it.
Graham’s relationship with Lecter is already complex. They circle each other, aware of the brilliance of the other. Graham is probably one of the few people Lecter finds interesting, although these interactions are still mostly a game. Lecter can’t resist calling to tip off a killer that the FBI is coming. He has lengthy, intimate conversations with FBI agents over beautifully shot meals. There is always meat on the fork, or on the plate, and the show’s camera looks at food the way the camera on late night cable movies treats the bodies of naked women. The question is always open: What exactly are they eating?
Lecter is played by Mads Mikkelsen, who you may recognize from Casino Royale. He puts his own mark on the character, as one must when the person being portrayed has already become iconic due to the performance of another actor. Anything else would seem like a bland imitation.
It’s a beautiful show. Lecter and Graham share breakfast in a dark room at one point, a single line of light separating them. The direction, and sense of dread and darkness, is due to a skillful mixture of the best parts of the X-Files and Twin Peaks. When Graham looks at Lecter's most recent kill, he despairs of ever finding who was responsible.
“An intelligent psychopath? Particularly a sadist? Very hard to catch. There will be no traceable motive, there will be no patterns, he may never kill this way again,” Graham says, before saying that Lecter himself should work up a psychological profile.
Graham's opening monologue about "this is my design" made me roll my eyes.
Really, Will? He kicked in the door and proceeded to perform surgery with a handgun?
Shot a moving target.
At distance.
Through the neck.
Missing all the major veins and arteries.
On purpose.
Why not just throw in super-strength and x-ray vision as long as we're assigning super powers.
Yeah, that stuff in the beginning is what had me worried about the show. But once I got through that and one or two other questionable scenes, it started to get awesome.
this show makes me hate the whole 1 episode a week thing even more. just drop the whole series so I can get me fix damnit!
Really weird how they focus so much on will and not the fucking weird killers they feature in each episode. I want some context for crazy mushroom dude. Did his parents like mushrooms more than him? YES? NO? oh well. Hannibal is still really compelling.
Graham’s relationship with Lecter is already complex. They circle each other, aware of the brilliance of the other. Graham is probably one of the few people Lecter finds interesting, although these interactions are still mostly a game. Lecter can’t resist calling to tip off a killer that the FBI is coming. He has lengthy, intimate conversations with FBI agents over beautifully shot meals. There is always meat on the fork, or on the plate, and the show’s camera looks at food the way the camera on late night cable movies treats the bodies of naked women. The question is always open: What exactly are they eating?
Lecter is played by Mads Mikkelsen, who you may recognize from Casino Royale. He puts his own mark on the character, as one must when the person being portrayed has already become iconic due to the performance of another actor. Anything else would seem like a bland imitation.
It’s a beautiful show. Lecter and Graham share breakfast in a dark room at one point, a single line of light separating them. The direction, and sense of dread and darkness, is due to a skillful mixture of the best parts of the X-Files and Twin Peaks. When Graham looks at Lecter's most recent kill, he despairs of ever finding who was responsible.
“An intelligent psychopath? Particularly a sadist? Very hard to catch. There will be no traceable motive, there will be no patterns, he may never kill this way again,” Graham says, before saying that Lecter himself should work up a psychological profile.
The only thing I really disagree with in that is in bold.
My reading of that scene was that it was a courtesy from one cannibal to another.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
It's actually as yet very unclear why Lector did that. If you keep your musings to knowledge of the show only, you have three possibilities:
1. As you say, Lector extended a fellow serial killer a sort of professional courtesy.
2. Lector enjoys chaos and injected some into the situation, just to see what would happen.
3. Lector deliberately intended to engineer a confrontation between the killer and Will in order to see what Will would do.
If you look at the sum total of Lector's character in previous media (which the show seems very consistent with), I would say there's plenty of evidence for number 2 there. Number 3 seems to fit with where the show is going, particularly once Lector and Will discuss the results of Lector's actions in the second episode. But I think the evidence for possibility number 1 is thinner, as Lector typically looks down on other killers--or, if he offers them encouragement or assistance, does so only as a means to get what he wants. Plus, the pilot makes it clear that Lector is helping Will catch the killer.
Overall, I suspect the show will lead us toward 3, because that seems to be where the dramatic arc is headed; but 2 is still very viable in my opinion. And I wouldn't rule out 1 entirely, either.
Caught the first two episodes, and will keep watching for now. I think not being familiar with the source material is hurting my enjoyment.
So far I only really like when Hannibal and MrEmpathy are talking. I dislike everyone else, and don't care for the nightmares or the crime scene scan super empathy powers.
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Mike Danger"Diane..."a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered Userregular
I'd like to think it's a combination of 1 and 3, but given the earlier mongoose/snake comment, I think it's really just 3.
I always read it as being number 2 due to how incredibly simple Hannibal's message was to Hobbs. He and Will had a halfway decent lead with him being the only one to not leave an address, but there was no way to know how the dude would react, or how long it would take them to find out where he lives and then get there.
It's kind of implausible to think Hannibal was certain they would get there the very moment shit was about to go down just so he could observe how Will would react in that situation.
You guys should really track down Silence. It really is one of the besr movies ever made.
Manhunter is also really good, once you settle into its uber-80s art film vibe. It's Will Graham and Hannibal's last case. Red Dragon is competent, if a little rote. Skip the rest.
Phillishere on
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
In response to the recent violence, Hannibal showrunner Bryan Fuller has asked NBC to pull the next episode of the show completely. As in, next week's episode would have been number 4, but will now be replaced by number 5. Number 4 simply will not air in the United States, although NBC has said it will put specific arc-related scenes online with intros by Bryan explaining the context.
I'm enjoying the show, despite it being rather more gruesome and unsettling than most media I consume.
I actually envy anyone watching who isn't familiar with the source material. I think that would add an extra level to it, rather than watching while wondering when they are going to introduce X element or make certain things clear that are only alluded to so far.
In response to the recent violence, Hannibal showrunner Bryan Fuller has asked NBC to pull the next episode of the show completely. As in, next week's episode would have been number 4, but will now be replaced by number 5. Number 4 simply will not air in the United States, although NBC has said it will put specific arc-related scenes online with intros by Bryan explaining the context.
I find this completely fucking ridiculous.
While I personally don't relate TV stuff with real life in such a way that I would be bothered, I also respect their decision. I read that episode 4 was about a guy brainwashing kids to kill other kids, and I think without the Boston bombing it probably would've gone ahead and aired, but since an 8 year old died in the bombing, having kids killing kids the same week would seem in bad taste to some. Especially since Newtown also happens to have been recent, which also involved many dead children.
I would be offended if the network had forced the issue more than what's happening here, which is the showrunner himself not wanting to air that episode.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
I actually don't know what specifically triggered this, because the news about the episode being pulled was sent out the day of the Boston bombing, before the bombing actually happened. It's possible (although it seems very strange to me) that Fuller and his team created the episode and then he decided it brought up too much from Newtown.
Regardless, although I don't agree with the decisions, I don't mind it when people delay episodes that they feel have a bad connection to current events. It's fairly common. But I do have a problem with it when people change the content (like they did with Gangster Squad) or, as they're doing here, simply never airing it.
This is a very mature, adult show with dark, scary things happening in it every episode. It just seems strange to me to draw that line here, and then to react with such an extreme measure.
I actually don't know what specifically triggered this, because the news about the episode being pulled was sent out the day of the Boston bombing, before the bombing actually happened. It's possible (although it seems very strange to me) that Fuller and his team created the episode and then he decided it brought up too much from Newtown.
Regardless, although I don't agree with the decisions, I don't mind it when people delay episodes that they feel have a bad connection to current events. It's fairly common. But I do have a problem with it when people change the content (like they did with Gangster Squad) or, as they're doing here, simply never airing it.
This is a very mature, adult show with dark, scary things happening in it every episode. It just seems strange to me to draw that line here, and then to react with such an extreme measure.
Agreed. Especially since no-one said a damn thing when Criminal Minds did a similar episode a few years ago. Whatever "controversial" subject matter Hannibal does has already been done, or worse, in Criminal Minds. This is people over-reacting in predictable and unnecessary fashion.
Dude didn't want to air an episode about kids killing kids when a very short time ago a bunch of elementary school kids were slaughtered. Kids are just a different subject than anything else. I'm sure the episode they air in its place will be good too. Usually they put a disclaimer at the front of an episode if it has something like bombings in it that can relate to real life, but this is just different, because again, it's about children dying.
I look forward to the online stuff they're going to put up to see what the episode was going to be about, but I also respect the showrunner's decision.
Number 4 simply will not air in the United States, although NBC has said it will put specific arc-related scenes online with intros by Bryan explaining the context.
I'm agnostic on the decision; without having seen the episode, I can imagine arguments for and against it. Regardless of this, I'm wondering whether this means the episode will be shown in Europe (e.g. on Sky Living), which would mean that there'll be ways for Americans to get their hands on the epsiode before long.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Caught the first two episodes, and will keep watching for now. I think not being familiar with the source material is hurting my enjoyment.
How so? I've never even seen Silence of the Lambs, and I'm liking the show a lot.
Well, I didn't like the first two episodes as much as others did, and I suspect that was partly because I have no prior attachment to the characters.
After watching the third episode I'm more excited to see where things go.
It seems silly to me to cut an episode. The entire premise of the show is creepy murder and psychological horror. Why make it at all if you are going to flinch and worry about being in bad taste. The whole thing is in bad taste.....that's the whole point. (Pun not intended.)
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NEVERMORE MAN ITS FROM THE RAVEN DONT YOU SEE
But yeah. That's standard network shit. But like you said, it's not nearly bad enough to ruin the show. Those scenes go by, then Lecter is back on screen and it's awesome again.
I hope it keeps the quality up from here on out.
The show's only flaw in my opinion is the CSI people (especially that woman, she's awful). I'm only tolerating them in the hopes that they'll eaten in the future.
I thought the shrike thing was interesting. Newspapers in the Harrisverse are always oddly literate with their serial killer names, it adds a nice flair to things.
I hate her too. couldnt put me finger on it... maybe its just that she's aweful. the one guy doesnt say much so he's fine. The other guy is scott thompson, he doesn't say much either. I think the girl is the issue.
Yup. I love when the pilot action breaks out they let Hannibal cooly hang back vs running him in there too. Poorer writing would have had him running in there too.
Maybe doing karate, or samurai shit like his lover/aunt from Hannibal rising taught him. Or maybe rising is best forgotten.
But Mads is rocking this out. The scene with the tattler reporter was pretty awesome.
I like the following, I find the show entertaining, and as long as I put on a cap of heavy suspension of disbelief (there are many things to ignore), the show is entertaining.
Hannibal is just so much better. The following has this sort of Deus Ex Machina concept where there is a mole when they need one to makeup for writing themselves into corners. Hannibal just seams to flow naturally, the way the show and script work I don't think they are going to need the same contrivences.
The relationship between Joe Caroll and Ryan Hardy is good, even compelling, but the relationship between Hannibal and Wil is better.
If I didn't know that the following was produced first, I would accuse the show of being a knock off.
The guy has such a great look to him. Elegant and dangerous. Like a cobra.
@zepherin - I agree. I was hooked on The Following after the pilot. But i didn't even finish the latest ep. It seems to have lost steam fast. Kevin bacon is definitely the bright spot for that show.
Not to mention, they focus so little on Carroll versus Hardy and just spend every episode on the dumbass follower characters that nobody cares about. My wife and I have a policy where if we make it past the pilot of a show, we will watch the entire first season before judging whether we will continue.
Rubicon is the only show up to this point we stopped watching before the first season ended. The Following will probably be the second.
It just makes how good Hannibal has been so far even more satisfying though, so there's that at least.
They need to throw out that animal controlling garbage Hannibal did from Hannibal: The Movie while they're at it.
It was pretty good, but
Really, Will? He kicked in the door and proceeded to perform surgery with a handgun?
Shot a moving target.
At distance.
Through the neck.
Missing all the major veins and arteries.
On purpose.
Why not just throw in super-strength and x-ray vision as long as we're assigning super powers.
Yeah, that stuff in the beginning is what had me worried about the show. But once I got through that and one or two other questionable scenes, it started to get awesome.
The only thing I really disagree with in that is in bold.
My reading of that scene was that it was a courtesy from one cannibal to another.
1. As you say, Lector extended a fellow serial killer a sort of professional courtesy.
2. Lector enjoys chaos and injected some into the situation, just to see what would happen.
3. Lector deliberately intended to engineer a confrontation between the killer and Will in order to see what Will would do.
If you look at the sum total of Lector's character in previous media (which the show seems very consistent with), I would say there's plenty of evidence for number 2 there. Number 3 seems to fit with where the show is going, particularly once Lector and Will discuss the results of Lector's actions in the second episode. But I think the evidence for possibility number 1 is thinner, as Lector typically looks down on other killers--or, if he offers them encouragement or assistance, does so only as a means to get what he wants. Plus, the pilot makes it clear that Lector is helping Will catch the killer.
Overall, I suspect the show will lead us toward 3, because that seems to be where the dramatic arc is headed; but 2 is still very viable in my opinion. And I wouldn't rule out 1 entirely, either.
So far I only really like when Hannibal and MrEmpathy are talking. I dislike everyone else, and don't care for the nightmares or the crime scene scan super empathy powers.
It's kind of implausible to think Hannibal was certain they would get there the very moment shit was about to go down just so he could observe how Will would react in that situation.
How so? I've never even seen Silence of the Lambs, and I'm liking the show a lot.
Manhunter is also really good, once you settle into its uber-80s art film vibe. It's Will Graham and Hannibal's last case. Red Dragon is competent, if a little rote. Skip the rest.
I find this completely fucking ridiculous.
I actually envy anyone watching who isn't familiar with the source material. I think that would add an extra level to it, rather than watching while wondering when they are going to introduce X element or make certain things clear that are only alluded to so far.
While I personally don't relate TV stuff with real life in such a way that I would be bothered, I also respect their decision. I read that episode 4 was about a guy brainwashing kids to kill other kids, and I think without the Boston bombing it probably would've gone ahead and aired, but since an 8 year old died in the bombing, having kids killing kids the same week would seem in bad taste to some. Especially since Newtown also happens to have been recent, which also involved many dead children.
I would be offended if the network had forced the issue more than what's happening here, which is the showrunner himself not wanting to air that episode.
Regardless, although I don't agree with the decisions, I don't mind it when people delay episodes that they feel have a bad connection to current events. It's fairly common. But I do have a problem with it when people change the content (like they did with Gangster Squad) or, as they're doing here, simply never airing it.
This is a very mature, adult show with dark, scary things happening in it every episode. It just seems strange to me to draw that line here, and then to react with such an extreme measure.
Agreed. Especially since no-one said a damn thing when Criminal Minds did a similar episode a few years ago. Whatever "controversial" subject matter Hannibal does has already been done, or worse, in Criminal Minds. This is people over-reacting in predictable and unnecessary fashion.
I look forward to the online stuff they're going to put up to see what the episode was going to be about, but I also respect the showrunner's decision.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Well, I didn't like the first two episodes as much as others did, and I suspect that was partly because I have no prior attachment to the characters.
After watching the third episode I'm more excited to see where things go.
It seems silly to me to cut an episode. The entire premise of the show is creepy murder and psychological horror. Why make it at all if you are going to flinch and worry about being in bad taste. The whole thing is in bad taste.....that's the whole point. (Pun not intended.)
Very curious to see if things progress with Abigail and Lecter.
Seriously, how did Lecter do any of the things he suggested he and Abigail do? There were cops everywhere.