With the village essentially depowered from day 1, I think it was basically hopeless. OL would have needed to kill ZH. Otherwise, there will always be another zombie to take the place of the one the village killed, and without a seer even getting lucky in the vote would mean little in the long term, as far as numbers are concerned.
After Day 1, the math was completely against a village win, and only one vig target could possibly have turned things around.
Well, if I had died the first few days then there would be a small amount of mafia with just one kill. The crux of this game was whether I could stay alive.
This is why I tried to earn the vig's trust. When the baddie would turn up zombie, and an early focus on clue finding I had to derail everything by claiming seer. For the record, I voted ol for sheriff before I got my role pm
I figured I needed to live until day 5 to give mafia good chance.
With a dead conversion guard and a converted seer, The only thing you needed to do was fly under the radar! Every vig miss is more mafia, every hit is 'no change from yesterday', and there's nothing but bad luck or awful play on your part that could stop the progress.
I figured I needed to live until day 5 to give mafia good chance.
With a dead conversion guard and a converted seer, The only thing you needed to do was fly under the radar! Every vig miss is more mafia, every hit is 'no change from yesterday', and there's nothing but bad luck or awful play on your part that could stop the progress.
I agree, except that 'bad luck' is a legit threat in phalla. Badluck on an early day 1-3, renders the mafia lame. I could have been randomly vigged, or an early bandwagon which usually don't need a whole lot of reason to form. This was why i had to take initiative to get on the vig's good side, so he wouldn't vig me and could help steer wagons off of me. Then i got super lucky with killing the seer.
I think this game really shows that cults can be incredibly swingy.
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
edited April 2013
Yeah. I had pretty much figured out your mechanics by day 3 or 4 but it didn't really matter, as I was only talking much to OL and we couldn't figure out what to do about it. Living specials would've helped a lot.
I think it is very hard on the village to have to kill a particular mafia. I mean, as the leader, im certainly trying to not blip mafiadars, but so are all my zombies. Picking out behavioral differences between village and mafia is hard enough without having to further refine that between 'right' and 'wrong' mafia. In this game that is somewhat mitigated by me being the only full time mafia, but i think these roles need extra attention in the balancing department.
GG, i don't think i've said this: I had a great time during this phalla, and i think you did a great job hosting. There is more to hosting than just role/power balancing, like knowing which questions to CD and what to reveal in narration, and i think you did a fantastic job with everything. The only suggestion i might make is sending the mafia a confirmation PM after we converted a villager. I was worried about sending a villager a link to the proboards in the case i was roleblocked etc. Thanks for hosting!
I wasn't sure how balanced the game was. In fact, I was worried that the mafia would be underpowered. But it really came down to was the village badluck/mafia goodluck. They converted the right people, made the right moves while the village struggled and gave up.
Game balancing is a learning experience and also constantly changing since you'll get metas that crop up, which throw certain things out of whack.
Like I said, my only real critique was that conversions of specials is problematic. I won't say they shouldn't happen, but it should take more resources to convert, like to the point where it's just easier for the converter to just kill them. Obviously, ease of conversion should vary with the type of special in question: vote manip, roleblock could probably be as easy to convert as vanillager. Action seer and vig in the middle (for the love god, don't let vigs get converted in some sort of thrallvig). Alignment seer and masons probably should always be immune to conversion (up to the host if the conversion just kills them instead). In a game with both mafia and a cult, the mafia should always be immune to conversion (assuming that the cult can't win with the mafia).
I suppose someone could argue that the village needed more than one seer, but I'm on the fence with that since this game also hinged on ZH staying alive long enough to create enough zombies for the mafia to have a shotat winning.
It probably is a bit too swingy since as ZH pointed out, it's really hard on the village when they have to kill the right person early one.
Overall, I think you did a fairly good job for your first game.
Had things went down a little differently we might be talking about how the mafia had little chance here. I guess the question is how consequential the first few days should be. If one side does a great play early on, how much should they rewarded?
I guess this can be expanded to all lengthy games in general.
It is a question of not just swing of the results, but how random the factors are as well.
It isn't a very good design because something like a day 1 grudge vote from the previous game or an RNG can end the game for the village victory, and on the flipside what the heck is the village supposed to go on to target the zombie leader exactly?
What is there on either side to, as you put it, be rewarded for?
If one side does a great play early on, how much should they rewarded?
well the first question is if the side is making a great play, or if they're just using game mechanics that the host gave them
i mean for example i don't really consider a vig calling a mafia shot day 2 and forming a village network early to be a "great play", just kind of what a vig will do given they have a kill
or actually here, let's take an example. Immortal Prince Langly was not a great play on Langly's part. That was just him using game mechanics.
The lie he told early on and the diplomacy on the road to that point was, however, a great play.
Theoretically people are rewarded for great plays, but they are also risky because someone might just kill you. A cult converting people isn't a great play it's just what they're supposed to do
Really the game was over when ZH threw Ketbra under the bus to be a "seer" and get good browny points with OL. That wasn't game balance. That was ZH risking it. What could I do?
0
AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Really the game was over when ZH threw Ketbra under the bus to be a "seer" and get good browny points with OL. That wasn't game balance. That was ZH risking it. What could I do?
Even to my inexperienced eye, the village did itself no favors early on, which isn't your fault.
Slightly more transparency about the mafia's mechanics, perhaps in the Reverend's PM if it wasn't there, for example, might have helped. I can't speak for much of anyone else but I don't think the idea that it was a recruitment-capable mafia occurred to many of us. It only occurred to me because of old WC3 mods like Parasite and Who's the Werewolf.
Well Anon did the village no favors with how he revealed. If you have to reveal, you should make it as obvious and flashy as possible. Doing so paints a target on your back and you don't want the non-networked guard to miss the reveal nor have a bunch of villagers in thread miss it because it looks like every other post; especially, on day one.
Well Anon did the village no favors with how he revealed. If you have to reveal, you should make it as obvious and flashy as possible. Doing so paints a target on your back and you don't want the non-networked guard to miss the reveal nor have a bunch of villagers in thread miss it because it looks like every other post; especially, on day one.
If he had blatantly revealed, I'd have switched my vote on day one and jdark would've been dead instead of him. That, in itself, might've changed the entire game.
I honestly didn't think T_A was revealing in that post... I just thought he was trying to save himself without flat out claiming a role and to me that sounded more squirrely than not.
Posts
Huh?
3DS: 1289-8447-4695
Do you all of a sudden hate actually playing phalla or something?
3DS: 1289-8447-4695
@OminousLozenge I'm sorry to have lied to you, but the Master commanded and I had to obey
Thanks for hosting, GG - this was fun!
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
start playing horribly so the mafia want to keep you alive or something
but statements like the one you made before are just gonna ensure you die on day 3 now!
You'd think I would learn by now!
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
A slight improvement!
3DS: 1289-8447-4695
Ah yes. I've been quite good at losing games recently haven't I?
Switch Friend Code: SW-1406-1275-7906
On the other hand, everyone was entirely wrong to suspect me!
After Day 1, the math was completely against a village win, and only one vig target could possibly have turned things around.
This is why I tried to earn the vig's trust. When the baddie would turn up zombie, and an early focus on clue finding I had to derail everything by claiming seer. For the record, I voted ol for sheriff before I got my role pm
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
With a dead conversion guard and a converted seer, The only thing you needed to do was fly under the radar! Every vig miss is more mafia, every hit is 'no change from yesterday', and there's nothing but bad luck or awful play on your part that could stop the progress.
I agree, except that 'bad luck' is a legit threat in phalla. Badluck on an early day 1-3, renders the mafia lame. I could have been randomly vigged, or an early bandwagon which usually don't need a whole lot of reason to form. This was why i had to take initiative to get on the vig's good side, so he wouldn't vig me and could help steer wagons off of me. Then i got super lucky with killing the seer.
I think this game really shows that cults can be incredibly swingy.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
GG, i don't think i've said this: I had a great time during this phalla, and i think you did a great job hosting. There is more to hosting than just role/power balancing, like knowing which questions to CD and what to reveal in narration, and i think you did a fantastic job with everything. The only suggestion i might make is sending the mafia a confirmation PM after we converted a villager. I was worried about sending a villager a link to the proboards in the case i was roleblocked etc. Thanks for hosting!
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Like I said, my only real critique was that conversions of specials is problematic. I won't say they shouldn't happen, but it should take more resources to convert, like to the point where it's just easier for the converter to just kill them. Obviously, ease of conversion should vary with the type of special in question: vote manip, roleblock could probably be as easy to convert as vanillager. Action seer and vig in the middle (for the love god, don't let vigs get converted in some sort of thrallvig). Alignment seer and masons probably should always be immune to conversion (up to the host if the conversion just kills them instead). In a game with both mafia and a cult, the mafia should always be immune to conversion (assuming that the cult can't win with the mafia).
I suppose someone could argue that the village needed more than one seer, but I'm on the fence with that since this game also hinged on ZH staying alive long enough to create enough zombies for the mafia to have a shotat winning.
It probably is a bit too swingy since as ZH pointed out, it's really hard on the village when they have to kill the right person early one.
Overall, I think you did a fairly good job for your first game.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
Had things went down a little differently we might be talking about how the mafia had little chance here. I guess the question is how consequential the first few days should be. If one side does a great play early on, how much should they rewarded?
I guess this can be expanded to all lengthy games in general.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
It isn't a very good design because something like a day 1 grudge vote from the previous game or an RNG can end the game for the village victory, and on the flipside what the heck is the village supposed to go on to target the zombie leader exactly?
What is there on either side to, as you put it, be rewarded for?
well the first question is if the side is making a great play, or if they're just using game mechanics that the host gave them
i mean for example i don't really consider a vig calling a mafia shot day 2 and forming a village network early to be a "great play", just kind of what a vig will do given they have a kill
or actually here, let's take an example. Immortal Prince Langly was not a great play on Langly's part. That was just him using game mechanics.
The lie he told early on and the diplomacy on the road to that point was, however, a great play.
Theoretically people are rewarded for great plays, but they are also risky because someone might just kill you. A cult converting people isn't a great play it's just what they're supposed to do
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
Even to my inexperienced eye, the village did itself no favors early on, which isn't your fault.
Slightly more transparency about the mafia's mechanics, perhaps in the Reverend's PM if it wasn't there, for example, might have helped. I can't speak for much of anyone else but I don't think the idea that it was a recruitment-capable mafia occurred to many of us. It only occurred to me because of old WC3 mods like Parasite and Who's the Werewolf.
battletag: Millin#1360
Nice chart to figure out how honest a news source is.
If he had blatantly revealed, I'd have switched my vote on day one and jdark would've been dead instead of him. That, in itself, might've changed the entire game.
I honestly didn't think T_A was revealing in that post... I just thought he was trying to save himself without flat out claiming a role and to me that sounded more squirrely than not.