Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Strip Search - Elimination #3

17891012

Posts

  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Devonin wrote: »
    Your point seems to be "There exists an interpretation, no matter how unlikely to be correct, which some people could choose to find offensive. Therefore, this comic should have lost the elimination" If that isn't your point, please let me know what it is.

    It must be discouraging to be an artist and have your work be constantly subject to the bizarre, disturbing, wildly uncharitable interpretations people formulate based on their own issues and biases.

    Gaslight on
    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
    Devonin
  • DevoninDevonin Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Devonin wrote: »
    Your point seems to be "There exists an interpretation, no matter how unlikely to be correct, which some people could choose to find offensive. Therefore, this comic should have lost the elimination" If that isn't your point, please let me know what it is.

    It must be discouraging to be an artist and have your work be constantly subject to the bizarre, disturbing, wildly uncharitable interpretations people formulate based on their own issues and biases.

    It is. Especially when people announce that your own intent as the creator is irrelevent to the supposed validity of their interpretation.

  • SiddownSiddown Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Devonin wrote:
    It must be discouraging to be an artist and have your work be constantly subject to the bizarre, disturbing, wildly uncharitable interpretations people formulate based on their own issues and biases.

    Which is why Scott was so hard on Lexxy about her insisting on opening dialogue with anyone on twitter who said they didn't like her art.

    The more people who see your art, the more likely that an incredible small yet vocal minority manages to be offended by it.

    On a personal level, I think Lexxy's piece was better, but show it to a million people and I guarantee a handful would have found a way to be offended by it (over religious clown zealots who don't think a clown would ever look at pr0n for example)

    Siddown on
    Tinkles
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    Devonin wrote: »
    Sejarki wrote: »
    Devonin wrote: »
    Equating "What are you doing, weirdo?" with "I'm being sexually assaulted" is both an incredible stretch, and pretty histrionic.

    I explained multiple reasons as to why the entire situation is highly questionable. You're ignoring her body language, and the implications of the text (and her lack of text). I want to know how you're coming to the conclusion that she is conveying "What are you doing, weirdo?" How are you interpreting the comic? How is evidence within the comic bringing you to this interpretation?

    See above for possible interpretations of the text. As for her body language, again, it says to me "Dude...what are you doing?" in a confused weirded out way, not in a "I'm being used against my will" way, as that is an ENTIRELY seperate set of body language that was not, in any capacity I can see, used in this strip.

    Suggesting that her lack of text is somehow indicative of her being raped/assaulted just makes no sense at all to me. The entire strip is taking place over, I would suggest, 30 seconds at most. He's recreating a feat of acrobatics with his tongue, that's not something that is even happening for minutes. She didn't have dialogue for 30 seconds of a sex scene, must mean she's nonconsenting!

    I suggest watching Girls for the most incredibly awkward live-action re-enactments of exactly this.

    It is like...70% of the first season's content.

  • ShpydarShpydar Brampton, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    altlat55 wrote: »
    From the thread I appear to be in the minority, but I liked the comic Tavis drew more than Lexxy's.

    Just to give you some validation so far on the main page poll: "DID YOU AGREE WITH THE CREATORS (INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT) ELIMINATION DECISION?"

    It is 56.2% yes with over 9200 votes ... so no you aren't the only one ;)

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Devonin wrote: »
    Your point seems to be "There exists an interpretation, no matter how unlikely to be correct, which some people could choose to find offensive. Therefore, this comic should have lost the elimination" If that isn't your point, please let me know what it is.

    Sure, I'll restate the point.

    Tavis' comic represents a failure to communicate. People are widely taking things from it that are obviously no where in the intent (example: thinking that "little death" is intended when it's not). This isn't a good thing. I can elaborate on why failure to communicate is bad, if you would like me to.

    Currently doing a Mass Effect Andromeda let's play:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/cambiata
    Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/
  • DevoninDevonin Registered User regular
    I'd consider a failure to communicate up against a failure to actually even carry out the instructions of the competition, and pick the poorly communicated result instead.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Way to ignore the point again, bro. You are total pro at this game. <3

    Currently doing a Mass Effect Andromeda let's play:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/cambiata
    Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/
  • DevoninDevonin Registered User regular
    An explicit acknowledgement of your point is ignoring your point? Are you sure you know what words mean?

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    What's particularly great, is that because that one dude said "rape", you are acting like every post supporting his posit that Tavis' comic fails to communicate, is just saying "rape rape rape rape" in every post. Then you start pointing fingers at other people being "histrionic."

    Great stuff.

    Currently doing a Mass Effect Andromeda let's play:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/cambiata
    Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Devonin wrote: »
    An explicit acknowledgement of your point is ignoring your point? Are you sure you know what words mean?

    Who are you even talking about failed to carry out the instructions of the elimination? You're comparing Tavis' comic to what? Tavis' answers in the Twitter challenge? You're not even bothering to make sense anymore, you should go back to the wounded innocence stance you were going with before.

    Currently doing a Mass Effect Andromeda let's play:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/cambiata
    Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/
  • TubeTube Administrator, ClubPA admin
    The rape tangent has now ended.

  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    So, Cambiata, are you saying that it's better to rely on established formulaic known comedy beats than to try to innovate and risk failure? I'm asking this question seriously.

    It's the question of Friends vs News Radio, of Modern Family vs Community. Lexxy did a pretty good job telling a joke whose essential form I have heard hundreds of times before. Tavis tried to tell a joke I've never heard before, and did it imperfectly and in a way that most people won't identify with easily. What's more important: broad appeal, or innovation?

    (Note that I'm talking about the text and comedy beats here, not the visual aspect of the art. If I consider the drawings alone, I prefer Lexxy's, especially since I can ignore the rushed-looking hand lettering.)

    Lexxy did something reasonably amusing but kind of safe. Tavis did something risky and didn't stick the landing. It's up to you which of those things you value more.

    Cultural Geek Girl on
    Buttoneer, Brigadeer, and Keeper of the Book of Wil Wheaton.
    Triwizard Drinking Tournament - '09 !Hufflepuff unofficial conscript, '10 !Gryffindor
    Nerd blog at culturalgeekgirl.com
    TheaterWar
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    @Cultural Geek Girl see the post from Tube for my answer.

    Currently doing a Mass Effect Andromeda let's play:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/cambiata
    Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/
  • DevoninDevonin Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    I'm talking about Tavis' strip compared to Lexxy's. Here, I'll spell it all out.

    1/ Clowns don't explicitly mean a circus. They could be buskers, they could be at a birthday party. It's a super easy connection to make "Clowns = circus" but it isn't as clear as Tavis' "I've made a direct reference to circus acrobats doing a performance"

    2/ Lexxy's joke is completely interchangable from the circus, to aliens, to cowboys. The joke has nothing to do with clowns or the circus except for the 'play clown' sight gag. Tavis' strip hinged entirely on the circus reference.

    3/ The instructions were to combine the two elements into a strip. Lexxy included both, but did not combine them, as per point 2 above. This is the failure to follow the directions.

    4/ This doesn't really count because of the authorial intent being irellevent thing, but there's also the fact that Lexxy didn't actually know what an ariola was, and also didn't know what the word she was looking for in the first panel even was either. She was combining Atoll and Caldera.

    5/ There's also a semantic failure in Lexxy's strip, because the first character was talking about a type of island, and wondering what it was called. The assumed word was given as something else, which was then confused for a spicy mayonnaise. The first character then asks "So what is it then" and the semantic question being asked is "What is the kind of island I was thinking of" and instead is given the answer "What is an Ariola?" You can argue "Thank you Ted, that was the joke" but I don't think it was. I think it was semantic confusion because of the time pressure.

    Further, given that the clown with the magazine knew what an Ariola was to point one out in a nudie magazine makes one wonder why he didn't speak up right there in frame two.

    Devonin on
  • Cultural Geek GirlCultural Geek Girl Registered User regular
    I was hoping we could actually have a discussion about the basic concept of innovation vs accessibility in comedy writing. I don't see why that should be unfeasible.

    Buttoneer, Brigadeer, and Keeper of the Book of Wil Wheaton.
    Triwizard Drinking Tournament - '09 !Hufflepuff unofficial conscript, '10 !Gryffindor
    Nerd blog at culturalgeekgirl.com
  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Devonin wrote: »
    2/ Lexxy's joke is completely interchangable from the circus, to aliens, to cowboys. The joke has nothing to do with clowns or the circus except for the 'play clown' sight gag. Tavis' strip hinged entirely on the circus reference.

    This is a good point. However dubiously successful the result, Tavis made more of an effort to incorporate the circus element into the joke. Lexxy may as well have drawn a sign in the background that says "CIRCUS," the meat of her comic has nothing to do with it.

    Gaslight on
    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
  • DevoninDevonin Registered User regular
    I was hoping we could actually have a discussion about the basic concept of innovation vs accessibility in comedy writing. I don't see why that should be unfeasible.

    I'd love to have such a discussion.

    In the context of Strip Search Challenges, I would much rather see people push the envelope and take a big chance in the hopes that it pays off than try to play it safe and squeak through. This includes all the other challenges not just the elimination.

    It gives us and the PA staff a better sense of what the person is capable of, gives us the viewers a better sense of who these people are, and makes for more enjoyable television, and I would suspect, a better fit for the PA brand when the competition is over.

  • SejarkiSejarki Registered User regular
    are you saying that it's better to rely on established formulaic known comedy beats than to try to innovate and risk failure? I'm asking this question seriously.

    It's extremely situational, and in the end you have to take measured risks. Trying to innovate is fine, but if you fail - you fail. The real question is how damaging is the potential failure. There's a difference between a joke that isn't funny and joke that is offensive. And I don't feel that being innovative should ever be rewarded for its own sake.

    And while Tavis's comic was risky (and risqué), I would not say it's innovative. It was just needles risk without a real payoff in the punchline.

    Cambiata
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    While I agree his comic was far from innovative (it's downright mundane), I don't think it was a needless risk if you understand the judges at all. Mike and Jerry love raunchy and also aren't the most culturally sensitive chaps, so making a sex joke of any kind is fairly low risk-high potential gain with them. I mean just look at their latest comic.

    Currently doing a Mass Effect Andromeda let's play:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/cambiata
    Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Devonin wrote: »
    2/ Lexxy's joke is completely interchangable from the circus, to aliens, to cowboys. The joke has nothing to do with clowns or the circus except for the 'play clown' sight gag. Tavis' strip hinged entirely on the circus reference.

    This is a good point. However dubiously successful the result, Tavis made more of an effort to incorporate the circus element into the joke. Lexxy may as well have drawn a sign in the background that says "CIRCUS," the meat of her comic has nothing to do with it.

    People have mentioned this before, but there's no where in the description of the elimination that says how the two words must be used, just that they must be used to construct a comic. Thus Alex's elimination comic, where space only comes in at the punchline, is just as valid as Katie's where space is a more centralized theme. So far there's been no mention by Mike or Jerry that anyone has yet failed to correctly incorporate one of the two words into the comics they drew.

    Currently doing a Mass Effect Andromeda let's play:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/cambiata
    Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/
  • DevoninDevonin Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    "In the next 90 minutes you create a comic strip based on the combination of these two notions"

    I just don't think that she combined the two elements together. She included them both, but in a way that neither side was actually intrinsic to the whole.

    She made a comic about aroloae that took place ostensibly at the circus. She didn't make a "Circus Ariola" comic. That's all.


    Mike on Alex's strip: "I don't know that I actually get this one"
    Jerry: "I don't actually know what happens between those two frames"
    Mike: "I don't understand what happens here"

    They pretty clearly had issues with the way he combined the two elements.

    Devonin on
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    If the judges themselves have not made mention that anyone has actually failed the challenge (aside from presenting something not-good), then I disagree with deciding that someone has failed on that criteria after the fact.

    Currently doing a Mass Effect Andromeda let's play:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/cambiata
    Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/
  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Cambiata wrote: »
    If the judges themselves have not made mention that anyone has actually failed the challenge (aside from presenting something not-good), then I disagree with deciding that someone has failed on that criteria after the fact.

    The judges have been pretty opaque on the details of their thought process in choosing any of the winners, actually.

    Gaslight on
    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    If the judges themselves have not made mention that anyone has actually failed the challenge (aside from presenting something not-good), then I disagree with deciding that someone has failed on that criteria after the fact.

    The judges have been pretty opaque on the details of their thought process in choosing any of the winners, actually.

    Yeah, exactly.

    Currently doing a Mass Effect Andromeda let's play:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/cambiata
    Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/
  • DVGDVG Registered User regular
    Devonin wrote: »
    "In the next 90 minutes you create a comic strip based on the combination of these two notions"

    I just don't think that she combined the two elements together. She included them both, but in a way that neither side was actually intrinsic to the whole.

    She made a comic about aroloae that took place ostensibly at the circus. She didn't make a "Circus Ariola" comic. That's all.


    Mike on Alex's strip: "I don't know that I actually get this one"
    Jerry: "I don't actually know what happens between those two frames"
    Mike: "I don't understand what happens here"

    They pretty clearly had issues with the way he combined the two elements.

    They had issues with the fact that Alex being shot into space was a non-sequitur.

    Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
    CambiataSejarki
  • altlat55altlat55 Registered User regular
    Devonin wrote: »
    I'm talking about Tavis' strip compared to Lexxy's. Here, I'll spell it all out.
    5/ There's also a semantic failure in Lexxy's strip, because the first character was talking about a type of island, and wondering what it was called. The assumed word was given as something else, which was then confused for a spicy mayonnaise. The first character then asks "So what is it then" and the semantic question being asked is "What is the kind of island I was thinking of" and instead is given the answer "What is an Ariola?" You can argue "Thank you Ted, that was the joke" but I don't think it was. I think it was semantic confusion because of the time pressure.

    Further, given that the clown with the magazine knew what an Ariola was to point one out in a nudie magazine makes one wonder why he didn't speak up right there in frame two.

    The punchline was playclown, and that needed to be in here, clearly he knew what it was immediately, and wanted to show her because to the clowns the joke was on her. The only problem I have with it is that it appears she was in on the joke because otherwise she wouldn't be asking "then what is it?" about the areola. It's hardly noticeable because it's very obvious where the joke is going from the start. The only thing that wasn't obvious was the issue of playclown and that was pretty good.

  • DevoninDevonin Registered User regular
    IE: That he included both concepts, but didn't combine them in any compelling way. That last frame could have been anything dramatic and actiony: Shot into the sun, sent to hell, beheaded with a cardboard tube.

  • SejarkiSejarki Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    I would love for the editors to actually give us more of the decision making process. I understand that they want to keep the tension up by not hinting at a winner until it's announced, but I think it's far more interesting to actually hear their reasoning. Even if they show it as a mini-flashback after the winner is announced, I think it would add a lot. The lack of detail about decision making process for this episode in particular was profoundly disappointing.

    Sejarki on
    KylieZDM
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    DVG wrote: »
    Devonin wrote: »
    "In the next 90 minutes you create a comic strip based on the combination of these two notions"

    I just don't think that she combined the two elements together. She included them both, but in a way that neither side was actually intrinsic to the whole.

    She made a comic about aroloae that took place ostensibly at the circus. She didn't make a "Circus Ariola" comic. That's all.


    Mike on Alex's strip: "I don't know that I actually get this one"
    Jerry: "I don't actually know what happens between those two frames"
    Mike: "I don't understand what happens here"

    They pretty clearly had issues with the way he combined the two elements.

    They had issues with the fact that Alex being shot into space was a non-sequitur.

    Yeah, this. They didn't understand how the joke connected, they didn't say anything to Alex about him not properly including both words in the challengs.

    Currently doing a Mass Effect Andromeda let's play:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/cambiata
    Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/
  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    Cambiata wrote: »
    Gaslight wrote: »
    Cambiata wrote: »
    If the judges themselves have not made mention that anyone has actually failed the challenge (aside from presenting something not-good), then I disagree with deciding that someone has failed on that criteria after the fact.

    The judges have been pretty opaque on the details of their thought process in choosing any of the winners, actually.

    Yeah, exactly.

    No, not exactly. The near total lack of elaboration from the judges on any criteria they used to make their decision in the most recent elimination is an argument against your position, not for it. For all we know Lexxy did lose because they felt she had failed to incorporate both elements enough. It's silly to argue, "Well, the judges didn't say anything about that" as if that means something, because they hardly say anything about how they come to their decisions at all, especially in the most recent elimination. Judging Lexxy's comic on the basis of how much it incorporated both concepts is as valid an assessment as any other. We are all speculating.

    Gaslight on
    bowen wrote: »
    The bacteria in your poop exist everywhere.
  • DevoninDevonin Registered User regular
    I feel that the decision was obviously so close and so difficult to them, that it will have almost certain come down to either a gut feeling, or some incredibly minute element of illustration or semantic construction that, if we knew it, would just make the arguments even louder and more vocal about whether it was the "right" decision or not.

  • SejarkiSejarki Registered User regular
    Gaslight wrote: »
    We are all speculating.

    I have to assume either Mike or Jerry is coulrophobic.

    That's the clown one.

  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    Oh my bad, I know what 'opaque' means but just sort of brain farted when I saw it, I thought you meant the opposite of that. (oops).

    I actually think they've been pretty clear on why they like x and don't like y, though they haven't been going in to details.

    First elim:
    Alex - not very good art, didn't understand the joke
    Katie - really good art, joke made them laugh

    Second elim:
    Ty: Not very funny joke, bad art
    Katie: Not very funny joke, good art

    Third elim:
    Tavis: Very funny joke
    Lexxy: Ok joke, Very good art

    If anyone had failed at the basic tenets of the challenge, in either judges eyes, I would have expected to see some footage, any footage of them saying so. But they haven't.

    Currently doing a Mass Effect Andromeda let's play:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/cambiata
    Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/
  • DevoninDevonin Registered User regular
    edited April 2013
    They didn't like how Alex referenced the competition directly. And said so.

    Katie referenced the competition directly. They didn't say that they didn't like it.

    So do you assume they flip-flopped on their position because they didn't say anything about Katie referencing the competition directly? Because if you require "Made explicit reference to it on the limited footage we saw" as your barometer for whether it's safe to speculate about something, we can't possibly think that part of what they didn't like about Katie's strip was her direct reference to the competition.

    Devonin on
  • DVGDVG Registered User regular
    Devonin wrote: »
    IE: That he included both concepts, but didn't combine them in any compelling way. That last frame could have been anything dramatic and actiony: Shot into the sun, sent to hell, beheaded with a cardboard tube.

    So could have Gabe and Tychos comic from PAX. You are really just trying to complain at this point.

    Diablo 3 - DVG#1857
    Cambiata
  • DevoninDevonin Registered User regular
    And if their strip was up against one that did incorporate them together in a compelling whole, I'd expect theirs to lose too. I'm not complaining. I'm discussing and speculating.

    I'm just flabbergasted at having speculation countered with "There's no evidence for that" because that's what speculation IS: A theory or conjecture that lacks firm evidence.

  • altlat55altlat55 Registered User regular
    I don't think the elimination challenge comic they made at PAX would have won too many eliminations.

    Benny_Dubspillfish
  • CambiataCambiata Commander Shepard The likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered User regular
    One thing I find pretty interesting is that at least from the footage, Mike's gut reaction will show you which strip will win in the end.

    Mike laughed at Katie's first round, didn't understand Alex's, Katie wins.

    Jerry actually said he liked Ty's joke, while Mike said that joke made him angry. Katie wins.

    Mike laughs aloud at Tavis' comic, only smiles at Lexxy's, despite being wow'd by her art. Tavis wins.


    "Make Mike laugh" seems like the deciding factor in everything so far. It's one of the reasons I think Abby has a better chance than might appear; she's a very funny young lady.

    Currently doing a Mass Effect Andromeda let's play:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/cambiata
    Instagram:
    https://www.instagram.com/bel.di.doll/
    DevoninBenny_Dub
  • DevoninDevonin Registered User regular
    Those are some interesting speculations. I'm curious to see if it is borne out by future eliminations. I do think that everything we've seen from Mike and Jerry over the years would back up the idea that if Mike feels more strongly about something than Jerry does, that Jerry will just roll with it.

    Shpydar
Sign In or Register to comment.