[BIOSHOCK INFINITE]: Burial At Sea Part 2: March 25th!

Artreus

I thought that is what it would be, but mousing over the achievements in the bioshock infinite stats page is givin me nothin

MordaRazgrom

To piggyback on the Elizabeth combat discussion. I think it would detract heavily from the type of character that Elizabeth is if they had her fight. Sure, survival forces us to fight and all that jazz, however, she is just...I don't know. Like I mentioned earlier, Bioshock Infinite has done something that no other game has ever done, I actually care about Elizabeth. Even Alyx Vance, I saw no incentive to care about what happens to her, she was just a blip, and automaton that was there to provide motivation to point shooty things at things and pull triggers, and excuse for violence. Elizabeth is on a whole different level. To be honest, I kind of cheered when

she smacked Booker with the wrench. I feel a lot of animosity towards the main character, in my mind, the dude's just a douchebag, and this is before all the big reveal stuff at the end. I just have no pity for people who dig themselves into a whole and then consider the option of sacrificing another human being to dig themselves out...it's kind of the epitome of selfishness and I am not cool with it one bit.

I think I haven't had enough coffee yet, I posted this in the Monster Hunter thread for some reason...derp

Robes

I'm a bit confused about people thinking the game is too violent. Is it because this game's story is so interesting to people who have not played FPS games, that those said people who are playing an FPS game for the first time think it's grossly violent?

MordaRazgrom

I'm more than a little bit disturbed by the violence in the game. Overall, it's standard FPS fare, gushes of blood and all that, but there are a few things that stand out to me and make me creeped out. Mind you, I'm a rather squeamish person when it comes to violence, I can't watch Saw or most slasher flicks because it's just not fun for me. This game is nowhere near that, but here is what stands out:
:shock: moment 1: Sometimes, when you execute someone with your claw, you snap their neck, then watch as the person's lifeless body crumples to the floor with their head bobbing around. This is actually pretty sickening to me, it's a level of violence that I do not normally find in games. Easy solution: never execute.
:shock: moment 2: the faces of the people after you kill them. I look at the bodies of people after I shoot them, I look at their faces. They have coded their faces to have very disturbing "death gazes" and, sometimes, their faces are distroted into this expression of utter pain that I find hard to view.
:shock: moment 3: this isn't that much of a big deal, so it's last on my list. When Possession wears off, the characters suicide in very graphic ways. Not so much "gory" but, just, you know, suicide is a bit of a raw nerve to me and some people.

Professor Phobos

Nah, it's just a fad. Questioning violence in video games is the Thing To Do This Year, according to Serious Game People (TM).

Artreus

Robes wrote: »

I'm a bit confused about people thinking the game is too violent. Is it because this game's story is so interesting to people who have not played FPS games, that those said people who are playing an FPS game for the first time think it's grossly violent?

The execution animations, along with some of the other things that happen to enemies, are particularly brutal. Especially when considered in context of the tone of most of the game itself.

This does not have to be your first first person shooter to think the violence gets a bit over the top, and thinking so does not mean that you think it is a bad game.

MordaRazgrom

Artreus wrote: »

Robes wrote: »

I'm a bit confused about people thinking the game is too violent. Is it because this game's story is so interesting to people who have not played FPS games, that those said people who are playing an FPS game for the first time think it's grossly violent?

The execution animations, along with some of the other things that happen to enemies, are particularly brutal. Especially when considered in context of the tone of most of the game itself.

This does not have to be your first first person shooter to think the violence gets a bit over the top, and thinking so does not mean that you think it is a bad game.

My disturbdedness with the violence by far does not color my perception of the game. It's there, it's uncomfortable, but, hey, you're a madman on a rampage in a peacful city...the violence should disturb you.

With that said, whenever I play Bioshock, I allow my son to sometimes sit next to me and watch, cause it's cool like that.


Artreus, sorry that the mouse-over thing didn't work, barring that, I don't know how to view them. It's hit or miss, i've had some games that the mouse-over works, and I've had games where it doesn't. Sometimes it takes a few seconds to pop up oddly.

Artreus

Professor Phobos wrote: »

Nah, it's just a fad. Questioning violence in video games is the Thing To Do This Year, according to Serious Game People (TM).

This is silly.

Blaming video games for real world violence. That is a fad.

Examining the things you play and why they are the way they are is not a fad, or it shouldn't be, anyway.

MordaRazgrom

To put it in perspective, I'm also disturbed that Lara Croft spends a good chunk of the game covered in blood and scars and wounds. It's appropriate, but uncomfortable regardless.

Robes

Other games have stealth kills or executes though. You typically stab someone in the heart and cover their mouth in a stealth game or slash their throat. In Skyrim, you crush their head with a giant warhammer or decapitate them. I never really saw articles about how violent that is though.

MordaRazgrom

Robes wrote: »

Other games have stealth kills or executes though. You typically stab someone in the heart and cover their mouth in a stealth game or slash their throat. In Skyrim, you crush their head with a giant warhammer or decapitate them. I never really saw articles about how violent that is though.

Honestly, for me it's a "feeling". Skyrim is pretty sterile, I never felt engaged, it was always a game to me, Bioshock is something more, I'm more invested. Even though I hate the main character, I feel more immersed in the game, so it's actually me doing those things, not some random Lusty Argonian Maid. That changes my perspective on the violence. At face-value it may be the exact same action, but it's more. It's kind of the difference between watching a movie of someone getting punched, versus actually punching someone. It's the same action, but the second sequence is, to me, a lot more violent.

Albino Bunny

I think (as someone whose stopped playing to wait on a better PC next week) the two things that stand out to make it seem very violent are:

1) The sort of semi cartooney look the game has. I think it throws people off that they're causing these blood sprays and disolving guys bones in a bright and colourful area. Most shooters are very grey or dark with an attempt at realism.

2) The game goes to great, great lengths to make it feel like you're shooting people, like when retrieving the Shock Jockey you know who you're shooting at, you don't want to and it's uncomfortable as a feeling compared to 'shoot terrorist cell member B'

sPider817

I was shocked by how graphic the game was, because I wasn't expecting it, but I wasn't really put off by it. Then again, I love the Saw movies and Troma films.

Fencingsax

I just suffered a glitch on my... I think 3rd playthrough, where Elizabeth would not smack me with the wrench.

Robes

I guess I'm just really desensitized to the violence. Granted, the first video games I remember playing as a kid besides NES games were Doom, Duke Nukem, and Quake. I didn't think twice when doing any of the stuff in game, and I actually enjoyed the executions.

I thought of Booker as a grizzled war vet. He's seen some rough shit. Probably done worse things. I only killed people who shot me first, but I figured he could handle what was going on and knew it was either "him or me" when it came down to firefights.

Viskod

Which begs the question.

What would Robert and Rosalind have done if Booker had shown up in New York with Elizabeth?

MordaRazgrom

There's also the whole concept that you're, basically, escorting a Disney Princess and then ruthlessly murdering peope right in front of her.
"Don't worry Jasmine, everything is fine, here's Jafar's bloody head in a box for you as a wedding present." <shudder>

Albino Bunny

I never got the princess thing. I mean, I get the looks but personality wise so far she seems to just be someone whose sheltered and adjusts very fast.

Brolo

She's way more Belle than she is Jasmine.

MordaRazgrom

Disclaimer: I have a very deep infatuation with Disney films. Every one of them is a must-see, even though I am way beyond the age where they would be something I enjoy.

I'm not sure why, I think the aesthetic is what suggests "Disney Princess" to me. The big eyes, innocent personality, gentle figure. I was actually shocked at the...uh...changes that her dress goes through. Disney Princesses do not have boobs!

Brolo

MordaRazgrom

You know what I equated her to, though, when I first saw her? Ariel...for some reason I thought "Ariel" when I first saw her. This was also way before I ever heard anyone mention that they think she's princess-like, so I wasn't subconsciously conditioned to see it.

Mandres

I'd bet most of the comments about the violence stem from the early scene where you first get your skyhook.

I mean prior to that you're strolling around this idyllic and interesting sky city with lots of pretty things to look at and a barbershop quartet that puts a huge grin on your face. Then the raffle scene horrifies you, and in the very next second you're committing shockingly graphic executions with no warning or chance to steel your nerves. It's not that this game portrays more violent acts than others, but that scene creates such an emotional response that people remember it and talk about it.

Albino Bunny

Can the next Bioshock star Mulan or Kida? That'd be neat.

MordaRazgrom

Mandres wrote: »

I'd bet most of the comments about the violence stem from the early scene where you first get your skyhook.

I mean prior to that you're strolling around this idyllic and interesting sky city with lots of pretty things to look at and a barbershop quartet that puts a huge grin on your face. Then the raffle scene horrifies you, and in the very next second you're committing shockingly graphic executions with no warning or chance to steel your nerves. It's not that this game portrays more violent acts than others, but that scene creates such an emotional response that people remember it and talk about it.

Gives huge amount of credibility to the game's designers, I believe. I don't think anyone is really saying that the violence is a horrible thing, that the game is worth overlooking due to the violence. From what I've seen, people are saying that the violence is glaring and uncomfortable, but appropriate.

Allforce

What happens if you throw the ball at the MC at the raffle? I plunked the couple.

MordaRazgrom

Albino Bunny wrote: »

Can the next Bioshock star Mulan or Kida? That'd be neat.

The obvious progression is Shrek :P

Yes I know, not Disney, but it works, somehow...for me.

Viskod

You get to keep your self respect?

Robes

Vanellope Schweetz

Brolo

Allforce wrote: »

What happens if you throw the ball at the MC at the raffle? I plunked the couple.

You get caught and everyone starts attacking you.

Brolo

and yeah this is my issue with the violence

Wassermelone

Allforce wrote: »

What happens if you throw the ball at the MC at the raffle? I plunked the couple.

...How the hell could you do that? I don't care how many times I play the game, I don't think I could ever throw it at the couple.

Mandres

The scene plays out exactly the same way regardless of which option you pick.

Allforce

Right on, shit just goes haywire as you go to throw the ball, that event is the start of the 10 hour murder spree.

Lucid_Seraph

PunkBoy wrote: »

Lucid_Seraph wrote: »

emnmnme wrote: »

BYToady wrote: »

Shennanigans, she doesn't throw a handful of ammo, she throws a fully loaded gun at you!

Hey, yeah, why isn't she taking potshots at enemies from whatever corner she's hiding in?

It's one thing to learn lockpicking when you're locked up in a tower being watched at every moment. It is quite another to learn advanced marksmanship.

She might not be a marksman, but she's a damn good spotter! Also, I hope those screenshots were adequate for you!

they were perfect, thanks

Allforce

I need explanation on something else, MAJOR SPOILER for roughly 3/4 length story stuff

What timeline/multiverse are you in with the creepy Washington-masked guys and their little puppet master with the bugles on his head? That was hands down one of the creepiest moments in my entire gaming life, especially after pulling that lever in the Warden's office. I never jump but I almost quit the fucking game after that section

Like what was the reasoning behind that stuff and those characters? There was little explanation or maybe I missed some voxophones or something.

Houn

The level of violence is sort of a necessary juxtaposition against the "idealistic" Olde Americana of the setting. There are some pretty clear themes here about both the conscious and unconscious whitewashing of history; for all it's outward charm, Columbia represents a time in American History where we as a people engaged in some very ugly things on a routine and daily basis. It's supposed to be jarring to see that level of detailed violence.

Big Dookie

I got much more of a Rapunzel (from Tangled) vibe from Elizabeth than anything else. Visually yes, she looks like Belle, but personality and motivation wise, she's totally Rapunzel. She's locked in a tower, a handsome rogue comes and "rescues" her, she has a secret superpower, and she makes a deal with him to go somewhere she's always wanted to go, not knowing his own secret plans.

There are so many parallels with Tangled actually I'm amazed no one has done a direct comparison yet.

MordaRazgrom

Big Dookie wrote: »

I got much more of a Rapunzel (from Tangled) vibe from Elizabeth than anything else. Visually yes, she looks like Belle, but personality and motivation wise, she's totally Rapunzel. She's locked in a tower, a handsome rogue comes and "rescues" her, she has a secret superpower, and she makes a deal with him to go somewhere she's always wanted to go, not knowing his own secret plans.

There are so many parallels with Tangled actually I'm amazed no one has done a direct comparison yet.

She also smacks him over the head with a frying pan wrench.

Houn

Ok. Just think "Disney Princess" and watch the very first time you see Elizabeth. Spoiler, obviously:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0FgxWWJfbI
About 2:40 in. Watch the way she moves, the bounce and smile; it's very clear that they drew inspiration from classic demure Disney Princesses for how they wanted her to be presented for the first time.