The red idol isn't really lovecraftian though. It is just an excuse to have characters act in weird ways. Oh and for some reason it can make statues come alive.
It's lyrium soaked in the blood of dead gods that has taken on a measure of intelligence that eats away at the minds of three characters, Varric included, and seems to be particularly virulent against people who can resist magic (dwarves, templars)
It makes people go insane, speak in strange languages, and turn into monsters, and we're never explicitly told exactly what it is or how it works or even really where it's from
That's pretty Lovecraftian
Except that it's not some natural occurance or otherworldly god-object. It's an item that was made by dwarves for a specific reason. It's reason is not unknowable by the very definition of its creation.
The bolded is just pure speculation on our part. The only thing we know, is that it's lyrium and that it's red and that sometimes, not always, people go crazy.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Didn't it come from that area of the Deep Roads older than Blights that was previously inhabited by the god eaters?
I mean is that based on something specific? It's been awhile since I've played DA2, so details have ebbed out, but I don't remember examples of intelligence by the idol or anything about it being soaked in god blood.
Didn't it come from that area of the Deep Roads older than Blights that was previously inhabited by the god eaters?
I mean is that based on something specific? It's been awhile since I've played DA2, so details have ebbed out, but I don't remember examples of intelligence by the idol or anything about it being soaked in god blood.
The idol talks to Varric after he's around it for only a few minutes, and Varric's brother holds conversations with it.
Meredith assumes it has the voice of the Maker.
That whole place was just soaked in god blood if you take the writing in there even half-seriously, and the idol had a place of apparent religious significance
I mean they never come out and say they soaked this rock in Old God juice and that's why it's red instead of blue and also talks and grows like a thing alive, but there are some signs that it has been radically changed by very bad, very ancient mojo
It's lyrium soaked in the blood of dead gods that has taken on a measure of intelligence
What?
What?
Didn't it come from that area of the Deep Roads older than Blights that was previously inhabited by the god eaters?
Not sure where that came from.
The only thing we know is that the Thaig was not recorded in the Shaperate and that it predates the first Blight. But all lost Thaigs predate the first Blight.
It was made by dwarves, hence the connection to the Deep Roads and the only inhabentents in present time were some demon possessed stones and things that might be dwarf spirits that possess stone. Or both.
And for some reason, there is some kind of red lyrium growing all over the place as well as normal lyrium.
That's pretty much the extent of knowledge the game tells us on the Primevil Thaig.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I don't think that's necessarily a sign of intelligence—lyrium in general seems to induce voices in people's heads. Per the wiki, Justice's lyrium ring sings to him, and from one of the books two characters hear song when lyrium is used in a ritual. It could just be echo of the fade or some such.
And like I said, it's been awhile, so I don't remember the deets. What gods are we talking about?
Maybe I'm crazy and just imagined the writings in the thaig? That's possible. But there's a particular poem - and a conversation with a spirit, I think - that indicates the previous inhabitants of the thaig did some bad, bad magic that involved eating the flesh of gods. They were never more specific than that, but the only gods I know of underground are the Old Gods, which is to say the Almost Archdemons
Lyrium sings, yes - it's vibrational and dwarves can sense it, but that's not with words, it's just music
Hm, so be it. After I'm done with this run of the Witcher I'll boot up my save that's just before the Expedition (and I know who I'll bring this time) and search around for that poem/tablet/whatever myself. I hate to think I imagined it
We who are forgotten, remember,
We clawed at rock until our fingers bled,
We cried out for justice, but were unheard.
Our children wept in hunger,
And so we feasted upon the gods.
Here we wait, in aeons of silence.
We few, we profane.
—Found scrawled on a wall in the lost Revann Thaig by explorer Faruma Helmi, 5:10 Exalted. Unknown author.
What's weird is that there is something wrong. Varric says that dwarven myth states that the Profane were once dwarves, that were abandoned and their spirits now inhabit rocks.
The thing is, if you bring Anders along, he states that the Profane are just demons and he can sense them.
I actually thought they may have been some kind of crazy, prototype of golem, before Anders tells you they are in fact, demons.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Anders thinks everything is a demon because everything that isn't physical is automatically a demon according to Chantry teachings
But yes that's the bit I was talking about
Well, he is an expert :P
There is actually very little information on red lyrium and the Primevil Thaig. There is only one codex entry on the Thaig, which I posted on the last page and none on the red idol/red lyrium.
A bunch of conjecture on the wiki. This part made me laugh.
It also gave her unnatural powers such as the ability to animate the statues in the Gallows, and even limited flight capabilities.
I forgot about that part. It turns her Super Saiyan :rotate:
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
In my career as first enchanter of the Circle of Ansburg, I have lost 208 socks of various and sundry description. Utterly. Without a trace. Ser Mallorick, the templar who supervises the Circle's laundry rooms, assures me that this is a common natural phenomenon.
Hogwash, I say! It is physically impossible for an article of the material world to vanish completely and leave no signs of its passage. The only rational explanation, therefore, must be that the disappearances are magical in origin. This, I hope, will be the definitive treatise on the subject.
I set upon my research with the following premise: Since it is a well-known fact that objects of worldly origin cannot travel between places on Thedas without crossing the intervening distance, then socks must originate in the Fade itself. They are emanations of some spirit projected into the waking world and whimsically recalled when the spirit desires.
I therefore devised a plan to observe my socks over a period of eight months; I hid within a sock-blind so that I might catch them unawares—both in the physical realm and in the Fade—and hopefully witness their natural behavior firsthand.
—From The Interplay of Spirits in the Common Laundry Room, by First Enchanter Luidweg of Ansburg
A mystery indeed!
Also, when inspecting the fireplace in the Hawke Estate, Hawke will say, "Oh look, a piece of Anders' manifesto."
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Yeah, I get that a little ambiguity is good sometimes, but some sort of explanation regarding the idol beyond "it exists and drives people crazy" would've been nice.
In my career as first enchanter of the Circle of Ansburg, I have lost 208 socks of various and sundry description. Utterly. Without a trace. Ser Mallorick, the templar who supervises the Circle's laundry rooms, assures me that this is a common natural phenomenon.
Hogwash, I say! It is physically impossible for an article of the material world to vanish completely and leave no signs of its passage. The only rational explanation, therefore, must be that the disappearances are magical in origin. This, I hope, will be the definitive treatise on the subject.
I set upon my research with the following premise: Since it is a well-known fact that objects of worldly origin cannot travel between places on Thedas without crossing the intervening distance, then socks must originate in the Fade itself. They are emanations of some spirit projected into the waking world and whimsically recalled when the spirit desires.
I therefore devised a plan to observe my socks over a period of eight months; I hid within a sock-blind so that I might catch them unawares—both in the physical realm and in the Fade—and hopefully witness their natural behavior firsthand.
—From The Interplay of Spirits in the Common Laundry Room, by First Enchanter Luidweg of Ansburg
A mystery indeed!
Also, when inspecting the fireplace in the Hawke Estate, Hawke will say, "Oh look, a piece of Anders' manifesto."
The part that really makes that entry great? It's the first enchanter coming to this conclusion.
In my career as first enchanter of the Circle of Ansburg, I have lost 208 socks of various and sundry description. Utterly. Without a trace. Ser Mallorick, the templar who supervises the Circle's laundry rooms, assures me that this is a common natural phenomenon.
Hogwash, I say! It is physically impossible for an article of the material world to vanish completely and leave no signs of its passage. The only rational explanation, therefore, must be that the disappearances are magical in origin. This, I hope, will be the definitive treatise on the subject.
I set upon my research with the following premise: Since it is a well-known fact that objects of worldly origin cannot travel between places on Thedas without crossing the intervening distance, then socks must originate in the Fade itself. They are emanations of some spirit projected into the waking world and whimsically recalled when the spirit desires.
I therefore devised a plan to observe my socks over a period of eight months; I hid within a sock-blind so that I might catch them unawares—both in the physical realm and in the Fade—and hopefully witness their natural behavior firsthand.
—From The Interplay of Spirits in the Common Laundry Room, by First Enchanter Luidweg of Ansburg
A mystery indeed!
Also, when inspecting the fireplace in the Hawke Estate, Hawke will say, "Oh look, a piece of Anders' manifesto."
The part that really makes that entry great? It's the first enchanter coming to this conclusion.
Mages are sympathetic and not at all completely unhinged all of the time!!!!
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
0
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
Anders Act 3:
He's just one mage. And all the other Abominations are the dumb mages, so the herd has been culled already. Don't let the oppressive Templar's tempt you to the side of darkness over one mages inability to tell Templar Building from Chantry Building.
"For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
Anders Act 3:
He's just one mage. And all the other Abominations are the dumb mages, so the herd has been culled already. Don't let the oppressive Templar's tempt you to the side of darkness over one mages inability to tell Templar Building from Chantry Building.
He's also specifically a mage who is not a part of the Circle at all
So punishing them for it is extra dumb.
0
PharezonStruggle is an illusion.Victory is in the Qun.Registered Userregular
The Qunari first thundered into Kirkwall in 7:56 Storm during last of the New Exalted Marches.
The collected nations of Thedas were attempting to drive the Qunari from the northern mainland once and for all. Qunari armies were on the retreat, but in a desperate gambit, their fleet circled around Amaranthine coast and landed a great force near the Marcher city of Ostwick. Their plan was to overwhelm the Marcher cities of Starkhaven and Kirkwall, Starkhaven to block the roads leading north and Kirkwall to block ships on the waking sea coming from Orlais, all in an effort to deny the supplies to the Thedas armies assaulting Rivain. The attack on Starkhaven eventually failed, but Kirkwall was attacked in a daring night raid where the Qunari used their leashed saarebas mages in an unprecedented display of sorcery. The walls were torn down and the city was taken, and for the next four years, Kirkwall endured the most brutal occupation in its history.
Writing from that time are scarce. It was not until after the city was freed that the Qunari's deeds came to light: Children taken from families, forced conversion to the Qunari religion, and brutal labor camps. It's ironic that the old slave quarters of lowtown, still intact after centuries, provided the perfect means for the Qunari to control the city's people. When the famous Orlesian chevalier, Ser Michel Lafaille, rode into the city after finally defeating the Qunari defenders, he wrote, "Kirkwall is full of people with empty eyes that had all independent thought driven from them." When Lafaille was appointed the city's first viscount by the emperor in 7:60 Storm, he made it his mission to undo the religious conditioning. The Lafaille bloodline remained popular enough that when the city finally rebelled against Orlesian rule in 8:05 Blessed, "viscount" remained the enduring title for Kirkwall's rulers despite its origin.
—From Kirkwall: the City of Chains, by Brother Genitivi, 9:24 Dragon
So yeah, fuck the Qun. I'm gonna murder all the Qunari I see.
It's not like Brother Genitivi doesn't have some sort of bias. Or, for that matter, an Orlesian Crusader Chevalier. :rotate:
0
chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
Anders Act 3:
He's just one mage. And all the other Abominations are the dumb mages, so the herd has been culled already. Don't let the oppressive Templar's tempt you to the side of darkness over one mages inability to tell Templar Building from Chantry Building.
He's also specifically a mage who is not a part of the Circle at all
So punishing them for it is extra dumb.
Yeah, there's plenty of reason to kill the circle mages on their own merits. No need to associate them with Anders.
After all, their leader's actions directly lead to your mother's death. Do you want to let that go? No. No you don't.
Kill... well, I was going to say kill all mages, but you don't have to do that. Kill some mages. The ones who surrender, well, lessons learned all around, let's not do that again, and everyone avoids an exalted march. Win win.
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
There really is no right or wrong answer since the leaders of the mages and the templars are both fucking terrible.
Meredith is a paranoid who is constantly putting the screws to the mages because she thinks Orsino is being less then forthright (a situation exacerbated by the lyrium idol) but Orsino
utterly failed as First enchanter since it's his job to help guide the mages in the city and when they fuck up and start performing blood magic it is his duty to inform the templars. By failing to do so he actually vindicated the idea that the circle was deliberately hiding blood mages, including the one that was building his very own frankenbride over the course of 9 years.
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
There really is no right or wrong answer since the leaders of the mages and the templars are both fucking terrible.
Meredith is a paranoid who is constantly putting the screws to the mages because she thinks Orsino is being less then forthright (a situation exacerbated by the lyrium idol) but Orsino
utterly failed as First enchanter since it's his job to help guide the mages in the city and when they fuck up and start performing blood magic it is his duty to inform the templars. By failing to do so he actually vindicated the idea that the circle was deliberately hiding blood mages, including the one that was building his very own frankenbride over the course of 9 years.
That is not entirely fair though. Giving up mages for blood magic would probably feel to Orvino like someone in our world giving up their kinsmen to a government doing ethnic cleansing because they were stealing food to survive. He also probably only heard the blood mages' sides of the stories, which were no doubt whitewashed.
0
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited April 2013
So I had to reduce the difficulty from normal to casual for the arishock fight, because seriously, the saarebas get a one hit kill and my party's ai is basically "Hey, let's go die!" at that fight.
Also, fuck the Qun, and it's not like the Templar are any better than the mages.
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
There really is no right or wrong answer since the leaders of the mages and the templars are both fucking terrible.
Meredith is a paranoid who is constantly putting the screws to the mages because she thinks Orsino is being less then forthright (a situation exacerbated by the lyrium idol) but Orsino
utterly failed as First enchanter since it's his job to help guide the mages in the city and when they fuck up and start performing blood magic it is his duty to inform the templars. By failing to do so he actually vindicated the idea that the circle was deliberately hiding blood mages, including the one that was building his very own frankenbride over the course of 9 years.
That is not entirely fair though. Giving up mages for blood magic would probably feel to Orvino like someone in our world giving up their kinsmen to a government doing ethnic cleansing because they were stealing food to survive. He also probably only heard the blood mages' sides of the stories, which were no doubt whitewashed.
Also, Orsino doesn't want to give up blood mages because Orsino is a blood mage.
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
There really is no right or wrong answer since the leaders of the mages and the templars are both fucking terrible.
Meredith is a paranoid who is constantly putting the screws to the mages because she thinks Orsino is being less then forthright (a situation exacerbated by the lyrium idol) but Orsino
utterly failed as First enchanter since it's his job to help guide the mages in the city and when they fuck up and start performing blood magic it is his duty to inform the templars. By failing to do so he actually vindicated the idea that the circle was deliberately hiding blood mages, including the one that was building his very own frankenbride over the course of 9 years.
That is not entirely fair though. Giving up mages for blood magic would probably feel to Orvino like someone in our world giving up their kinsmen to a government doing ethnic cleansing because they were stealing food to survive. He also probably only heard the blood mages' sides of the stories, which were no doubt whitewashed.
Also, Orsino doesn't want to give up blood mages because Orsino is a blood mage.
I'm not sure he ever really used blood magic before the end?
I mean obviously he knew the spell but it feels as if he only used it in his final act of desperation
The Qunari first thundered into Kirkwall in 7:56 Storm during last of the New Exalted Marches.
The collected nations of Thedas were attempting to drive the Qunari from the northern mainland once and for all. Qunari armies were on the retreat, but in a desperate gambit, their fleet circled around Amaranthine coast and landed a great force near the Marcher city of Ostwick. Their plan was to overwhelm the Marcher cities of Starkhaven and Kirkwall, Starkhaven to block the roads leading north and Kirkwall to block ships on the waking sea coming from Orlais, all in an effort to deny the supplies to the Thedas armies assaulting Rivain. The attack on Starkhaven eventually failed, but Kirkwall was attacked in a daring night raid where the Qunari used their leashed saarebas mages in an unprecedented display of sorcery. The walls were torn down and the city was taken, and for the next four years, Kirkwall endured the most brutal occupation in its history.
Writing from that time are scarce. It was not until after the city was freed that the Qunari's deeds came to light: Children taken from families, forced conversion to the Qunari religion, and brutal labor camps. It's ironic that the old slave quarters of lowtown, still intact after centuries, provided the perfect means for the Qunari to control the city's people. When the famous Orlesian chevalier, Ser Michel Lafaille, rode into the city after finally defeating the Qunari defenders, he wrote, "Kirkwall is full of people with empty eyes that had all independent thought driven from them." When Lafaille was appointed the city's first viscount by the emperor in 7:60 Storm, he made it his mission to undo the religious conditioning. The Lafaille bloodline remained popular enough that when the city finally rebelled against Orlesian rule in 8:05 Blessed, "viscount" remained the enduring title for Kirkwall's rulers despite its origin.
—From Kirkwall: the City of Chains, by Brother Genitivi, 9:24 Dragon
So yeah, fuck the Qun. I'm gonna murder all the Qunari I see.
It's not like Brother Genitivi doesn't have some sort of bias. Or, for that matter, an Orlesian Crusader Chevalier. :rotate:
The codex is hella subjective and probably wrong in many cases and this is great
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
There really is no right or wrong answer since the leaders of the mages and the templars are both fucking terrible.
Meredith is a paranoid who is constantly putting the screws to the mages because she thinks Orsino is being less then forthright (a situation exacerbated by the lyrium idol) but Orsino
utterly failed as First enchanter since it's his job to help guide the mages in the city and when they fuck up and start performing blood magic it is his duty to inform the templars. By failing to do so he actually vindicated the idea that the circle was deliberately hiding blood mages, including the one that was building his very own frankenbride over the course of 9 years.
That is not entirely fair though. Giving up mages for blood magic would probably feel to Orvino like someone in our world giving up their kinsmen to a government doing ethnic cleansing because they were stealing food to survive. He also probably only heard the blood mages' sides of the stories, which were no doubt whitewashed.
Also, Orsino doesn't want to give up blood mages because Orsino is a blood mage.
I'm not sure he ever really used blood magic before the end?
I mean obviously he knew the spell but it feels as if he only used it in his final act of desperation
This is correct. Up to that point it was all theoretical.
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
There really is no right or wrong answer since the leaders of the mages and the templars are both fucking terrible.
Meredith is a paranoid who is constantly putting the screws to the mages because she thinks Orsino is being less then forthright (a situation exacerbated by the lyrium idol) but Orsino
utterly failed as First enchanter since it's his job to help guide the mages in the city and when they fuck up and start performing blood magic it is his duty to inform the templars. By failing to do so he actually vindicated the idea that the circle was deliberately hiding blood mages, including the one that was building his very own frankenbride over the course of 9 years.
That is not entirely fair though. Giving up mages for blood magic would probably feel to Orvino like someone in our world giving up their kinsmen to a government doing ethnic cleansing because they were stealing food to survive. He also probably only heard the blood mages' sides of the stories, which were no doubt whitewashed.
The way he feels about it is irrelivent since the primary applications for blood magic are 1. Draining the life from those around you and 2. mind control. Both of these things are bad, and are amongst the strongest arguements for the existence of the templar order.
Furthermore to quote the wiki:
First Enchanter is the title given to the head of a Circle. The first enchanter is seen by apprentices as a father or mother figure, and an ambassador of peace to the templars by the other mages. First enchanters traditionally wear black[1] robes.
A first enchanter is appointed by the Knight-commander from among the Circle's senior enchanters, generally with the approval of the Circle's mages.[2] A first enchanter is usually someone who is respected by all mages and usually the templars too, and he or she is not always chosen based off their power and abilities.
A first enchanter officially has a broad range of powers. Their permission or consent is needed:
for a mage to leave the tower;
for templars to summon an apprentice for the Harrowing;
for templars to make a mage Tranquil; for templars to move overtly against a Circle mage suspected of practicing forbidden magic.[confirmation needed] (it stands to reason however, that this would be under his control if tranquilizing is)
However, the extent to which the templars allow a first enchanter to exercise their powers varies from tower to tower.
First enchanters routinely congregate in the city of Cumberland, at their College. They elect a grand enchanter.
Now, it's clear that Orsino didn't have the same degree of freedom other enchanters had, but the dude completely and utterly failed in his duty to the circle and the city by failing to engage in his duty to the people of Kirkwall.
So ultimately he was a miserable failure and much more responsible for the shit that went on in the city then most people care to acknowledge.
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
There really is no right or wrong answer since the leaders of the mages and the templars are both fucking terrible.
Meredith is a paranoid who is constantly putting the screws to the mages because she thinks Orsino is being less then forthright (a situation exacerbated by the lyrium idol) but Orsino
utterly failed as First enchanter since it's his job to help guide the mages in the city and when they fuck up and start performing blood magic it is his duty to inform the templars. By failing to do so he actually vindicated the idea that the circle was deliberately hiding blood mages, including the one that was building his very own frankenbride over the course of 9 years.
That is not entirely fair though. Giving up mages for blood magic would probably feel to Orvino like someone in our world giving up their kinsmen to a government doing ethnic cleansing because they were stealing food to survive. He also probably only heard the blood mages' sides of the stories, which were no doubt whitewashed.
Also, Orsino doesn't want to give up blood mages because Orsino is a blood mage.
I'm not sure he ever really used blood magic before the end?
I mean obviously he knew the spell but it feels as if he only used it in his final act of desperation
I know Meredith is super crazy and everything, but she is really right when she points out that someone doesn't just bust out a ritual like that in the middle of an act of desperation.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
+1
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
There really is no right or wrong answer since the leaders of the mages and the templars are both fucking terrible.
Meredith is a paranoid who is constantly putting the screws to the mages because she thinks Orsino is being less then forthright (a situation exacerbated by the lyrium idol) but Orsino
utterly failed as First enchanter since it's his job to help guide the mages in the city and when they fuck up and start performing blood magic it is his duty to inform the templars. By failing to do so he actually vindicated the idea that the circle was deliberately hiding blood mages, including the one that was building his very own frankenbride over the course of 9 years.
That is not entirely fair though. Giving up mages for blood magic would probably feel to Orvino like someone in our world giving up their kinsmen to a government doing ethnic cleansing because they were stealing food to survive. He also probably only heard the blood mages' sides of the stories, which were no doubt whitewashed.
The way he feels about it is irrelivent since the primary applications for blood magic are 1. Draining the life from those around you and 2. mind control. Both of these things are bad, and are amongst the strongest arguements for the existence of the templar order.
Furthermore to quote the wiki:
First Enchanter is the title given to the head of a Circle. The first enchanter is seen by apprentices as a father or mother figure, and an ambassador of peace to the templars by the other mages. First enchanters traditionally wear black[1] robes.
A first enchanter is appointed by the Knight-commander from among the Circle's senior enchanters, generally with the approval of the Circle's mages.[2] A first enchanter is usually someone who is respected by all mages and usually the templars too, and he or she is not always chosen based off their power and abilities.
A first enchanter officially has a broad range of powers. Their permission or consent is needed:
for a mage to leave the tower;
for templars to summon an apprentice for the Harrowing;
for templars to make a mage Tranquil; for templars to move overtly against a Circle mage suspected of practicing forbidden magic.[confirmation needed] (it stands to reason however, that this would be under his control if tranquilizing is)
However, the extent to which the templars allow a first enchanter to exercise their powers varies from tower to tower.
First enchanters routinely congregate in the city of Cumberland, at their College. They elect a grand enchanter.
Now, it's clear that Orsino didn't have the same degree of freedom other enchanters had, but the dude completely and utterly failed in his duty to the circle and the city by failing to engage in his duty to the people of Kirkwall.
So ultimately he was a miserable failure and much more responsible for the shit that went on in the city then most people care to acknowledge.
Merrill doesn't use Blood Magic for either of those.
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
edited April 2013
You have got to be fucking kidding me.
Fencingsax on
0
FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
There really is no right or wrong answer since the leaders of the mages and the templars are both fucking terrible.
Meredith is a paranoid who is constantly putting the screws to the mages because she thinks Orsino is being less then forthright (a situation exacerbated by the lyrium idol) but Orsino
utterly failed as First enchanter since it's his job to help guide the mages in the city and when they fuck up and start performing blood magic it is his duty to inform the templars. By failing to do so he actually vindicated the idea that the circle was deliberately hiding blood mages, including the one that was building his very own frankenbride over the course of 9 years.
That is not entirely fair though. Giving up mages for blood magic would probably feel to Orvino like someone in our world giving up their kinsmen to a government doing ethnic cleansing because they were stealing food to survive. He also probably only heard the blood mages' sides of the stories, which were no doubt whitewashed.
The way he feels about it is irrelivent since the primary applications for blood magic are 1. Draining the life from those around you and 2. mind control. Both of these things are bad, and are amongst the strongest arguements for the existence of the templar order.
Furthermore to quote the wiki:
First Enchanter is the title given to the head of a Circle. The first enchanter is seen by apprentices as a father or mother figure, and an ambassador of peace to the templars by the other mages. First enchanters traditionally wear black[1] robes.
A first enchanter is appointed by the Knight-commander from among the Circle's senior enchanters, generally with the approval of the Circle's mages.[2] A first enchanter is usually someone who is respected by all mages and usually the templars too, and he or she is not always chosen based off their power and abilities.
A first enchanter officially has a broad range of powers. Their permission or consent is needed:
for a mage to leave the tower;
for templars to summon an apprentice for the Harrowing;
for templars to make a mage Tranquil; for templars to move overtly against a Circle mage suspected of practicing forbidden magic.[confirmation needed] (it stands to reason however, that this would be under his control if tranquilizing is)
However, the extent to which the templars allow a first enchanter to exercise their powers varies from tower to tower.
First enchanters routinely congregate in the city of Cumberland, at their College. They elect a grand enchanter.
Now, it's clear that Orsino didn't have the same degree of freedom other enchanters had, but the dude completely and utterly failed in his duty to the circle and the city by failing to engage in his duty to the people of Kirkwall.
So ultimately he was a miserable failure and much more responsible for the shit that went on in the city then most people care to acknowledge.
Merrill doesn't use Blood Magic for either of those.
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
There really is no right or wrong answer since the leaders of the mages and the templars are both fucking terrible.
Meredith is a paranoid who is constantly putting the screws to the mages because she thinks Orsino is being less then forthright (a situation exacerbated by the lyrium idol) but Orsino
utterly failed as First enchanter since it's his job to help guide the mages in the city and when they fuck up and start performing blood magic it is his duty to inform the templars. By failing to do so he actually vindicated the idea that the circle was deliberately hiding blood mages, including the one that was building his very own frankenbride over the course of 9 years.
That is not entirely fair though. Giving up mages for blood magic would probably feel to Orvino like someone in our world giving up their kinsmen to a government doing ethnic cleansing because they were stealing food to survive. He also probably only heard the blood mages' sides of the stories, which were no doubt whitewashed.
Also, Orsino doesn't want to give up blood mages because Orsino is a blood mage.
I'm not sure he ever really used blood magic before the end?
I mean obviously he knew the spell but it feels as if he only used it in his final act of desperation
This is correct. Up to that point it was all theoretical.
While his personal use of Blood magic was indeed theoretical he did lie constantly yo the templars and the people in general stating that there were no blood magtes in kirkwall. Remember the big spell he uses in the end came from his friend, a confessed murderer and blood mage who also turns your mom into the bride of frankenstien. It dosent condemn the circle but is does prove Orsino a failure
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
There really is no right or wrong answer since the leaders of the mages and the templars are both fucking terrible.
Meredith is a paranoid who is constantly putting the screws to the mages because she thinks Orsino is being less then forthright (a situation exacerbated by the lyrium idol) but Orsino
utterly failed as First enchanter since it's his job to help guide the mages in the city and when they fuck up and start performing blood magic it is his duty to inform the templars. By failing to do so he actually vindicated the idea that the circle was deliberately hiding blood mages, including the one that was building his very own frankenbride over the course of 9 years.
That is not entirely fair though. Giving up mages for blood magic would probably feel to Orvino like someone in our world giving up their kinsmen to a government doing ethnic cleansing because they were stealing food to survive. He also probably only heard the blood mages' sides of the stories, which were no doubt whitewashed.
Also, Orsino doesn't want to give up blood mages because Orsino is a blood mage.
I'm not sure he ever really used blood magic before the end?
I mean obviously he knew the spell but it feels as if he only used it in his final act of desperation
This is correct. Up to that point it was all theoretical.
While his personal use of Blood magic was indeed theoretical he did lie constantly yo the templars and the people in general stating that there were no blood magtes in kirkwall. Remember the big spell he uses in the end came from his friend, a confessed murderer and blood mage who also turns your mom into the bride of frankenstien. It dosent condemn the circle but is does prove Orsino a failure
From what I recall Orsino never lied about there not being blood mages?
He does ask you to keep a low profile while investigating some, because he wasn't sure what they were doing yet
Though I'll admit that for the narrative I'd prefer it if Orsino had no ties to Quinten and didn't go batshit when you side with him.
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DarcsteelWildcardNC United StatesRegistered Userregular
The primary use of all magic is murder and the facilitating of murder.
I would know.
Incidentally this is also the primary use of hands.
Yes but blood magic turns a single pair of hands from a tool for murder into a weapon of mass destruction. Not saying thats all they can be used for but that is the common fear of its application, and save for a significant few that is how it is commonly put into pratice
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Except that it's not some natural occurance or otherworldly god-object. It's an item that was made by dwarves for a specific reason. It's reason is not unknowable by the very definition of its creation.
The bolded is just pure speculation on our part. The only thing we know, is that it's lyrium and that it's red and that sometimes, not always, people go crazy.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I mean is that based on something specific? It's been awhile since I've played DA2, so details have ebbed out, but I don't remember examples of intelligence by the idol or anything about it being soaked in god blood.
The idol talks to Varric after he's around it for only a few minutes, and Varric's brother holds conversations with it.
That whole place was just soaked in god blood if you take the writing in there even half-seriously, and the idol had a place of apparent religious significance
I mean they never come out and say they soaked this rock in Old God juice and that's why it's red instead of blue and also talks and grows like a thing alive, but there are some signs that it has been radically changed by very bad, very ancient mojo
Not sure where that came from.
The only thing we know is that the Thaig was not recorded in the Shaperate and that it predates the first Blight. But all lost Thaigs predate the first Blight.
It was made by dwarves, hence the connection to the Deep Roads and the only inhabentents in present time were some demon possessed stones and things that might be dwarf spirits that possess stone. Or both.
And for some reason, there is some kind of red lyrium growing all over the place as well as normal lyrium.
That's pretty much the extent of knowledge the game tells us on the Primevil Thaig.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
And like I said, it's been awhile, so I don't remember the deets. What gods are we talking about?
Lyrium sings, yes - it's vibrational and dwarves can sense it, but that's not with words, it's just music
This lyrium talks. It promises. And
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_The_Profane
What's weird is that there is something wrong. Varric says that dwarven myth states that the Profane were once dwarves, that were abandoned and their spirits now inhabit rocks.
The thing is, if you bring Anders along, he states that the Profane are just demons and he can sense them.
I actually thought they may have been some kind of crazy, prototype of golem, before Anders tells you they are in fact, demons.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
But yes that's the bit I was talking about
Well, he is an expert :P
There is actually very little information on red lyrium and the Primevil Thaig. There is only one codex entry on the Thaig, which I posted on the last page and none on the red idol/red lyrium.
A bunch of conjecture on the wiki. This part made me laugh.
I forgot about that part. It turns her Super Saiyan :rotate:
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_The_Basket_of_Lost_Socks
A mystery indeed!
Also, when inspecting the fireplace in the Hawke Estate, Hawke will say, "Oh look, a piece of Anders' manifesto."
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
The part that really makes that entry great? It's the first enchanter coming to this conclusion.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
So it's probably a giant pile of laundry with a peephole hidden in it.
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
You know, I was on the side of the Mages up until this point, but I swear, if I have to side with the Templars now...
Anders Act 3:
So punishing them for it is extra dumb.
It's not like Brother Genitivi doesn't have some sort of bias. Or, for that matter, an Orlesian Crusader Chevalier. :rotate:
After all, their leader's actions directly lead to your mother's death. Do you want to let that go? No. No you don't.
Kill... well, I was going to say kill all mages, but you don't have to do that. Kill some mages. The ones who surrender, well, lessons learned all around, let's not do that again, and everyone avoids an exalted march. Win win.
Why I fear the ocean.
Meredith is a paranoid who is constantly putting the screws to the mages because she thinks Orsino is being less then forthright (a situation exacerbated by the lyrium idol) but Orsino
Also, fuck the Qun, and it's not like the Templar are any better than the mages.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I mean obviously he knew the spell but it feels as if he only used it in his final act of desperation
The codex is hella subjective and probably wrong in many cases and this is great
This is correct. Up to that point it was all theoretical.
Furthermore to quote the wiki: Now, it's clear that Orsino didn't have the same degree of freedom other enchanters had, but the dude completely and utterly failed in his duty to the circle and the city by failing to engage in his duty to the people of Kirkwall.
So ultimately he was a miserable failure and much more responsible for the shit that went on in the city then most people care to acknowledge.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Primary isn't the same as only.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
I would know.
Incidentally this is also the primary use of hands.
He does ask you to keep a low profile while investigating some, because he wasn't sure what they were doing yet
Though I'll admit that for the narrative I'd prefer it if Orsino had no ties to Quinten and didn't go batshit when you side with him.
Yes but blood magic turns a single pair of hands from a tool for murder into a weapon of mass destruction. Not saying thats all they can be used for but that is the common fear of its application, and save for a significant few that is how it is commonly put into pratice