I highly doubt melee won't come for at least a year, if ever. They already laid out there roadmap for like the next year. If you consider kicking melee well they had that in closed beta except it was called collision without the animation of kicking. That should be back before release
That's probably for the better. I'm the kind of moron that would try to find a mech with literally only melee and then cry that there was no grappling to let me suplex another mech.
I highly doubt melee won't come for at least a year, if ever. They already laid out there roadmap for like the next year. If you consider kicking melee well they had that in closed beta except it was called collision without the animation of kicking. That should be back before release
That's probably for the better. I'm the kind of moron that would try to find a mech with literally only melee and then cry that there was no grappling to let me suplex another mech.
Heh; melee-only 'mechs brings back some memories. I briefly played the MechWarrior Dark Age miniature game (with the pre-painted 'mechs with the clicky bases). I was a poor-ass kid and had only common 'mechs that were donated to me, but my (almost) equally-poor friend and I would pool our units and build armies for this weekly tournament.
I remember using a motley crew consisting primarily of a forestry 'mech with no guns, a construction 'mech (which was awesome; it totally had a gun strapped on there) and the pride of my army; a real battlemech--my Targe*. Later I managed to win a tournament and got this little artillery tank that was actually pretty good.
I used to have the Targe run out to the edge of a forest tile where it received some kind of armor bonus and became an annoying unhittable piece of shit. The rest of my army would hang back in a mishmash of support vehicles and mixed infantry while my artillery guy did his thing. No one ever payed any attention to my industrial 'mechs until it was too late, and my construction 'mech would obliterate an entire formation of infantry at once (it had some kind of huge attack bonus and an antipersonnel ability). Then they'd shoot it, only to find out that while having basically no armor it's still just a cobbled-together junker and has no repair limit, so I'd just have my little trucks repair it to full power next turn.
When the time was right, I'd have the forestry 'mech charge in from across the map (it was stupidly fast) and bonk the fanciest thing on the board with its giant wrecking ball, then capture the damaged target with infantry.
I used to piss off so many srs bzns MechWarrior nerds with their fancy Mad Cats and unique tanks.
*The Targe is a light 'mech known primarily for being really shitty.
So that ATD says collision will be back in after launch. Their roadmap has a tentative date of Aug/Sep for launch. Baaah.
Honestly Id be okay with them holding off on more mechs and whatnot until that is sorted out.
PGI's use of the term 'launch' is effectively just the ribbon cutting at the local supermarket's grand opening. They've been taking your money for the past 2 weeks, but just want all the fanfare.
I really don't understand where this concept comes from, just because they take your money does not mean the game is essentially classified as release. It was your choice (Or whoevers) choice to give them money when it's clear as daylight stated that its a beta. They are doing MASSIVE sweeping changes to multiple things in the game. Just not to long ago, there was no ELO system in place for MM, yet they were still taking money. Could you honestly say that the game would be "released" without any type of MM system?
We are essentially playing a game as it's developed. You don't see this in AAA titles because almost all AAA titles are not F2P. However, almost EVERY F2P game has some type of "open beta" development phase that carries over into release...this is literally nothing new.
That logic, is just so wrong.
...except that they've said the "Open Beta" is essentially a marketing beta, and this is the Release version in terms of mechanics. Like Forbe said, the "Release" date is just when they have the CW in and can call this the fully-fledged game they initially intended.
I don't know where people get the concept that this isn't a release client. This comes up every few months.
Well, just out of curiosity, when did you consider this game as "released". When they accepted money for Founders? When they did the final wipe? A specific milestone? I'd really like to see the logic behind this.
So that ATD says collision will be back in after launch. Their roadmap has a tentative date of Aug/Sep for launch. Baaah.
Honestly Id be okay with them holding off on more mechs and whatnot until that is sorted out.
PGI's use of the term 'launch' is effectively just the ribbon cutting at the local supermarket's grand opening. They've been taking your money for the past 2 weeks, but just want all the fanfare.
I really don't understand where this concept comes from, just because they take your money does not mean the game is essentially classified as release. It was your choice (Or whoevers) choice to give them money when it's clear as daylight stated that its a beta. They are doing MASSIVE sweeping changes to multiple things in the game. Just not to long ago, there was no ELO system in place for MM, yet they were still taking money. Could you honestly say that the game would be "released" without any type of MM system?
We are essentially playing a game as it's developed. You don't see this in AAA titles because almost all AAA titles are not F2P. However, almost EVERY F2P game has some type of "open beta" development phase that carries over into release...this is literally nothing new.
That logic, is just so wrong.
...except that they've said the "Open Beta" is essentially a marketing beta, and this is the Release version in terms of mechanics. Like Forbe said, the "Release" date is just when they have the CW in and can call this the fully-fledged game they initially intended.
I don't know where people get the concept that this isn't a release client. This comes up every few months.
Yep. They've said themselves they essentially consider the game to be fully launched. So they should be held to appropriate standards.
They said this? Where? According to all popular game sites, the closest release date is "TBA 2013" or "Summer 2013"
The devs have managed expectations in a lot of ways to imply a level of stability and completeness that goes beyond the strict "Beta" definition. This is a marketing beta, plain and simple. I can't be bothered to look up the actual instances, and they stick to the company line officially in any event.
Thing is, when you accept money from people (and explicitly state there will be no more wipes), you're in a release whether you admit it or not. It's fair to expect this product to be in a working state. These days, an open beta usually isn't even really about load testing or the like; it's a way to get publicity and cash flow. And considering CW is coming so soon, they really should have their shit more together with respect to base combat mechanics, stability, and balance.
You can argue they never promise a 100% finished product, but they also never push the usual "you are testing for bugs, and your experience might suck" aspect either. Every ad I've seen says "Play MechWarrior Online Today!!" just like any other fully released F2P game.
So that ATD says collision will be back in after launch. Their roadmap has a tentative date of Aug/Sep for launch. Baaah.
Honestly Id be okay with them holding off on more mechs and whatnot until that is sorted out.
PGI's use of the term 'launch' is effectively just the ribbon cutting at the local supermarket's grand opening. They've been taking your money for the past 2 weeks, but just want all the fanfare.
I really don't understand where this concept comes from, just because they take your money does not mean the game is essentially classified as release. It was your choice (Or whoevers) choice to give them money when it's clear as daylight stated that its a beta. They are doing MASSIVE sweeping changes to multiple things in the game. Just not to long ago, there was no ELO system in place for MM, yet they were still taking money. Could you honestly say that the game would be "released" without any type of MM system?
We are essentially playing a game as it's developed. You don't see this in AAA titles because almost all AAA titles are not F2P. However, almost EVERY F2P game has some type of "open beta" development phase that carries over into release...this is literally nothing new.
That logic, is just so wrong.
...except that they've said the "Open Beta" is essentially a marketing beta, and this is the Release version in terms of mechanics. Like Forbe said, the "Release" date is just when they have the CW in and can call this the fully-fledged game they initially intended.
I don't know where people get the concept that this isn't a release client. This comes up every few months.
Well, just out of curiosity, when did you consider this game as "released". When they accepted money for Founders? When they did the final wipe? A specific milestone? I'd really like to see the logic behind this.
So that ATD says collision will be back in after launch. Their roadmap has a tentative date of Aug/Sep for launch. Baaah.
Honestly Id be okay with them holding off on more mechs and whatnot until that is sorted out.
PGI's use of the term 'launch' is effectively just the ribbon cutting at the local supermarket's grand opening. They've been taking your money for the past 2 weeks, but just want all the fanfare.
I really don't understand where this concept comes from, just because they take your money does not mean the game is essentially classified as release. It was your choice (Or whoevers) choice to give them money when it's clear as daylight stated that its a beta. They are doing MASSIVE sweeping changes to multiple things in the game. Just not to long ago, there was no ELO system in place for MM, yet they were still taking money. Could you honestly say that the game would be "released" without any type of MM system?
We are essentially playing a game as it's developed. You don't see this in AAA titles because almost all AAA titles are not F2P. However, almost EVERY F2P game has some type of "open beta" development phase that carries over into release...this is literally nothing new.
That logic, is just so wrong.
...except that they've said the "Open Beta" is essentially a marketing beta, and this is the Release version in terms of mechanics. Like Forbe said, the "Release" date is just when they have the CW in and can call this the fully-fledged game they initially intended.
I don't know where people get the concept that this isn't a release client. This comes up every few months.
Yep. They've said themselves they essentially consider the game to be fully launched. So they should be held to appropriate standards.
They said this? Where? According to all popular game sites, the closest release date is "TBA 2013" or "Summer 2013"
The devs have managed expectations in a lot of ways to imply a level of stability and completeness that goes beyond the strict "Beta" definition. This is a marketing beta, plain and simple. I can't be bothered to look up the actual instances, and they stick to the company line officially in any event.
Thing is, when you accept money from people (and explicitly state there will be no more wipes), you're in a release whether you admit it or not. It's fair to expect this product to be in a working state. These days, an open beta usually isn't even really about load testing or the like; it's a way to get publicity and cash flow. And considering CW is coming so soon, they really should have their shit more together with respect to base combat mechanics, stability, and balance.
You can argue they never promise a 100% finished product, but they also never push the usual "you are testing for bugs, and your experience might suck" aspect either. Every ad I've seen says "Play MechWarrior Online Today!!" just like any other fully released F2P game.
Any dev's will do that, blaming PGI specifically is quite frankly, wrong. Take a look at another up and coming F2P game called Warframe, they don't even have a "beta" sign attached on there home page. They also shouldn't have to push a "you are testing for bugs, and your experience might suck" because thats what a beta tag is for. Yes, it's fair for the game to be in a working state, which it is, mind you. There are bugs because of new features being added because *shocker* the game is still in development!
Base combat mechanics do work? Perhaps you need to clarify what a "base combat mechanic" is, because lasers work, ballistics work, and LRMS/SRMS work, though to a lesser degree then probably intended.
Accepting money does not mean the game is released. Don't go on kickstarter or fund Early Access games on Steam, because by that logic, all those games that are clearly still in development, are also apparently released at the same time.
So, just because you think that the game is released when clearly, it's not, nor as far as i can tell has ever been stated, and just because you look pass the beta tags, which are clearly all over the website and client. It's somehow apparent that the game is "released".
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Hahaha, came across a premade in the 3 Cataphracts and a Heavy Metal, all kitted out for poptarting. Then they insisted it wasn't unbalanced, it was standard Battletech.
Ok, we got backcapped by 4 Cicadas on Tourlamine. Couldn't get even halfway back before it was fully capped. I'm done for the night, that was fucking stupid.
1)Tone down ecm to it's TT variant (longer lockon times, that jazz so that other light mechs are usuable. Seriously, I only use ECM because other lights use streaks)
2)Make streak missiles target all hitboxes except head. done. same damage, can't expect to core mechs from the get go of a match. great for killing wounded mechs. weaker streaks means more light mech variance.
3)up missile damage by .3 . that means srms are 1.8 damage per missile, LRMs are 1 damage per missile. maybe that will get some missile mechs back in the game.
4)firing ballistics should cause kick back. it's more pronounced with larger caliber or faster velocity weapons. something that just makes it impractical to dual fire ac20s or guass. stagger fire? sure, little less kickback, but you can be more accurate for it.
5) chop that fucking mountain in half on alpine, throw up more hills or dips or something. its a fucking turkey shoot.
6) put collisions back in. no seriously, put them back the fuck in.
I think those are my top 6 issues. I could care less about more maps, or mechs atm... any new light mech gets introduced, its a mad dash to elite the cripple variants so that my ecm variant is that much meaner.
ECM should only get toned down if missiles are changed - LRMs and Streaks don't have the "homing" effect in TT that they do - they are as hard to aim with as any ballistic or laser weapon. Unless they can adjust for that, then ECM necessarily needs to be stronger.
Any dev's will do that, blaming PGI specifically is quite frankly, wrong. Take a look at another up and coming F2P game called Warframe, they don't even have a "beta" sign attached on there home page. They also shouldn't have to push a "you are testing for bugs, and your experience might suck" because thats what a beta tag is for. Yes, it's fair for the game to be in a working state, which it is, mind you. There are bugs because of new features being added because *shocker* the game is still in development!
Base combat mechanics do work? Perhaps you need to clarify what a "base combat mechanic" is, because lasers work, ballistics work, and LRMS/SRMS work, though to a lesser degree then probably intended.
Accepting money does not mean the game is released. Don't go on kickstarter or fund Early Access games on Steam, because by that logic, all those games that are clearly still in development, are also apparently released at the same time.
So, just because you think that the game is released when clearly, it's not, nor as far as i can tell has ever been stated, and just because you look pass the beta tags, which are clearly all over the website and client. It's somehow apparent that the game is "released".
Wow.
Snarkiness and italicizing aside, I can get behind everything you have said. Sure, its true, everyone signed up for a beta, and should expect it to be buggy, and everyone of us should be expecting to be testing the beta.
However, given the non-committal rhetoric of the developers, as well as the "twostepsforward, threestepsback" patches that are consistently released, as well as the occasional redacting of hotfixes (hey, here is fixed thermal/nv, wait a minute, oops), many people start developing this attitude. You described sweeping changes being made from patch to patch, sure, but the latest patch irritated previously known bugs into being major issues (map bugs existed previously, but are now significantly worse). Many of these bugs have been around since the founders program, and still have yet to be addressed (including frequent, random disconnects/CTD, whatever).
I can tolerate these things, but I am simply mentioning why much of the frustration is present, because, after all, this is a work in progress.
The major issue I see is the release of the highlander hero variant. I could only assume the other variants are probably ready, but this just shows a shift to a more aggressive marketing strategy by creating a cult of exclusivity around mechs. Good for them, it is a lucrative business model, and given the numbers should assure them plenty of sales for future hero mechs they release prior to releasing the chasis. I still find it disconcerting that they are more focused on releasing premium content than spending time on QA to prevent many of these gamebreaking bugs.
Again, just my observations, I am not trying to put them down. I obviously enjoy this game greatly and have a lot of time and money invested in it since the release of the of the founders program.
+4
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
ECM is OP bullshit already purely from the aspect that if fucks over radar recognition of your team. The "you're screwed" bubble needs to be extremely toned down, both in terms of effect and how far people can target you from. And the no-lock crap needs to go away for sure and get replaced with extra lock time/reduced accuracy. ECM in general is horribly screwed up, for sure.
Ok, we got backcapped by 4 Cicadas on Tourlamine. Couldn't get even halfway back before it was fully capped. I'm done for the night, that was fucking stupid.
Had the exact same thing happen, against probably the same bullshit premade. Yeah, it was absolutely hilarious when we did 8-man Commando caps back in closed beta, but that got old quick. And getting a quick cap doesn't even pay well, so what's the point?
Alpine and Tourmaline make assault need a survivor-based speed reduction of cap so bad it's not even funny. Got four fast mechs sitting on the cap and the whole enemy team is still alive? Tough shit, you cap at a quarter the rate of a single mech. Nobody wants matches where people are just exploiting the ELO to pad their W/L ratio.
Ok, we got backcapped by 4 Cicadas on Tourlamine. Coulbdn't get even halfway back before it was fully capped. I'm done for the night, that was fucking stupid.
Yeah. Matchmaking should be class then elo. Can't be that hard to just add that little bit.
ECM is OP bullshit already purely from the aspect that if fucks over radar recognition of your team. The "you're screwed" bubble needs to be extremely toned down, both in terms of effect and how far people can target you from. And the no-lock crap needs to go away for sure and get replaced with extra lock time/reduced accuracy. ECM in general is horribly screwed up, for sure.
Ok, we got backcapped by 4 Cicadas on Tourlamine. Couldn't get even halfway back before it was fully capped. I'm done for the night, that was fucking stupid.
Had the exact same thing happen, against probably the same bullshit premade. Yeah, it was absolutely hilarious when we did 8-man Commando caps back in closed beta, but that got old quick. And getting a quick cap doesn't even pay well, so what's the point?
Alpine and Tourmaline make assault need a survivor-based speed reduction of cap so bad it's not even funny. Got four fast mechs sitting on the cap and the whole enemy team is still alive? Tough shit, you cap at a quarter the rate of a single mech. Nobody wants matches where people are just exploiting the ELO to pad their W/L ratio.
Probably, they were pretty obviously trolling. They even got off the point for a little bit until I came into sight then stepped back on and finished capping right before I made it there while laughing in chat.
So it seems like I do really well with weird as hell builds ie:
Atlas D - 2 ERPPC, 2 LRM5, AC20, 2 MLAS
Heavy Metal - Gauss, 2 SSRM2, PPC, LLAS, MLAS (actually broke the 1k damage in a round with this build once).
These are really weird builds. That's way too much stuff for me to keep track of, I have like a 3 or 4 weapon limit, after which I start to forget to use things for full effect. More power to you, apparently you can make it work!
+1
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
Ok, we got backcapped by 4 Cicadas on Tourlamine. Coulbdn't get even halfway back before it was fully capped. I'm done for the night, that was fucking stupid.
Yeah. Matchmaking should be class then elo. Can't be that hard to just add that little bit.
Or maybe (stay with me here) it should do the balancing before committing half the players in a match to a game. No more of this "alright, these five pilots are in the game, now here's a bunch of other guys who are actually waaaay unbalanced for this match, but it's too late because everybody is already in the game". Matches that take longer to start should mean they're more balanced, not less, because the ELO should then be spending a longer time grabbing people to have even matches. And for shit's sake, there needs to a class of "filler" players who can get dropped in to replace players who DC before a match starts so we can stop having this stupid 6-on-8 crap.
Currently, if the ELO is running more than about 20-30 seconds, I close the MWO launcher and and log back in. No way am I knowingly going to keep entering matches which will be unbalanced and I can't do a damn thing about it.
I do not claim to know how shit like this works, I have trouble making emoticons on the myspace.
Just trying to describe the current climate of the community and a large part of the frustration I've seen in game, on the MWO official forums and around fellow irregualrs. I've been vocal about my distaste for the state of the game, but still continue to play, and still monetarily support PGI, because I think this is a great game.
Or maybe (stay with me here) it should do the balancing before committing half the players in a match to a game. No more of this "alright, these five pilots are in the game, now here's a bunch of other guys who are actually waaaay unbalanced for this match, but it's too late because everybody is already in the game". Matches that take longer to start should mean they're more balanced, not less, because the ELO should then be spending a longer time grabbing people to have even matches. And for shit's sake, there needs to a class of "filler" players who can get dropped in to replace players who DC before a match starts so we can stop having this stupid 6-on-8 crap.
Currently, if the ELO is running more than about 20-30 seconds, I close the MWO launcher and and log back in. No way am I knowingly going to keep entering matches which will be unbalanced and I can't do a damn thing about it.
I would like to see an option to change mechs before the game is officially started, to allow PUGs to have time to optimize teams. Maybe its batshit crazy, but if I joined a game as an ECM light, and we already had 3 ECM lights, I would like to be able to change what I brought to the fight. Currently running premades is the only way to guarantee some sort of consistency.
Edit:
And I will go so far as to say, ELO isn't an effective way of matchmaking. It randomizes the lineups, but thats about it.
Any dev's will do that, blaming PGI specifically is quite frankly, wrong. Take a look at another up and coming F2P game called Warframe, they don't even have a "beta" sign attached on there home page. They also shouldn't have to push a "you are testing for bugs, and your experience might suck" because thats what a beta tag is for. Yes, it's fair for the game to be in a working state, which it is, mind you. There are bugs because of new features being added because *shocker* the game is still in development!
Base combat mechanics do work? Perhaps you need to clarify what a "base combat mechanic" is, because lasers work, ballistics work, and LRMS/SRMS work, though to a lesser degree then probably intended.
Accepting money does not mean the game is released. Don't go on kickstarter or fund Early Access games on Steam, because by that logic, all those games that are clearly still in development, are also apparently released at the same time.
So, just because you think that the game is released when clearly, it's not, nor as far as i can tell has ever been stated, and just because you look pass the beta tags, which are clearly all over the website and client. It's somehow apparent that the game is "released".
Wow.
Snarkiness and italicizing aside, I can get behind everything you have said. Sure, its true, everyone signed up for a beta, and should expect it to be buggy, and everyone of us should be expecting to be testing the beta.
However, given the non-committal rhetoric of the developers, as well as the "twostepsforward, threestepsback" patches that are consistently released, as well as the occasional redacting of hotfixes (hey, here is fixed thermal/nv, wait a minute, oops), many people start developing this attitude. You described sweeping changes being made from patch to patch, sure, but the latest patch irritated previously known bugs into being major issues (map bugs existed previously, but are now significantly worse). Many of these bugs have been around since the founders program, and still have yet to be addressed (including frequent, random disconnects/CTD, whatever).
I can tolerate these things, but I am simply mentioning why much of the frustration is present, because, after all, this is a work in progress.
The major issue I see is the release of the highlander hero variant. I could only assume the other variants are probably ready, but this just shows a shift to a more aggressive marketing strategy by creating a cult of exclusivity around mechs. Good for them, it is a lucrative business model, and given the numbers should assure them plenty of sales for future hero mechs they release prior to releasing the chasis. I still find it disconcerting that they are more focused on releasing premium content than spending time on QA to prevent many of these gamebreaking bugs.
Again, just my observations, I am not trying to put them down. I obviously enjoy this game greatly and have a lot of time and money invested in it since the release of the of the founders program.
To be fair, PGI did ask the community about the future releasing of Hero and new mechs at the same time and the community did vote they liked it with heroes being released first.
Ok, we got backcapped by 4 Cicadas on Tourlamine. Couldn't get even halfway back before it was fully capped. I'm done for the night, that was fucking stupid.
On another forum, someone is trying to argue to me that the scout lance doesn't perform better than any other dedicated lance you can drop with, it's purely that it's a coordinated group vs pugs.
Yeah, sure buddy. I'm sure when I take my scout lance to cap Assault on Desert/Arctic, your coordinated non-scout lance can deal with that if they didn't already know it was coming from our names.
CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
edited April 2013
Try as I may, I'm just not warming up to the Jagermech. For whatever reason, even though it's very similar to the Catapult, it just feels more fragile. I can only guess this is because it has no arms to absorb incoming torso damage, and its taller profile makes it an easier target.
I've only purchased the S so far, not sure I'm going to bother with the other two. So many other mechs to buy. Plus I've got Heavies covered nicely with 2 Cats, 2 Phracts and a Dragon.
Or is there something I should try that will make me love the platform? I've run dual AC-20 and quad laser builds so far. Toyed with the quad ac/2 build for a game or two, wasn't really a fan.
Try as I may, I'm just not warming up to the Jagermech. For whatever reason, even though it's very similar to the Catapult, it just feels more fragile. I can only guess this is because it has no arms to absorb incoming torso damage, and its taller profile makes it an easier target.
I've only purchased the S so far, not sure I'm going to bother with the other two. So many other mechs to buy. Plus I've got Heavies covered nicely with 2 Cats, 2 Phracts and a Dragon.
Or is there something I should try that will make me love the platform? I've run dual AC-20 and quad laser builds so far. Toyed with the quad ac/2 build for a game or two, wasn't really a fan.
Jagers feel more fragile because dakka is their thing, and there's really no way to sport good, aggressive dakka on there without being ultra-slow or mounting an XL engine. Nine times out of ten, something with a pair of UAC5s on up has an XL engine.
The best use I've gotten out of Jagers is a brawler with a load of SRMs and a couple LLs with a standard engine (sooo... basically, a Catapult), double AC2 with 2 LLs and a standard engine (or with a third LL and an XL engine), or cheesing a pair of gauss rifles/AC20s (basically a gaussapult/boomcat). About the only definite upside the Jagerbomb has is it can take an XL so it isn't ass-slow, but then you've got a broad XL-carrying mech that fights from well within the the optimal range of almost everything.
Ballistic weapon are just so freaking heavy that the Jager is actually in a pretty lousy weight spot to make good use of dakka. It's heavy enough to trap people into carrying too much dakka and making themselves a glass cannon, but not heavy enough to have some really great dakka other than cheese builds. Another 10 or so tons to use and it would be awesome, but instead, you really have to settle for not-dakka if you want real durability.
I refuse to think of ECM as balanced, until there is a point where ECM is not a must have item on every mech that is able to equip it. Its 1.5 Tons and 2 slots, on mechs that are in general very constrained in what they can carry. The fact that equipping ECM is always a no brainer means that it is not balanced and needs further tuning.
Try as I may, I'm just not warming up to the Jagermech. For whatever reason, even though it's very similar to the Catapult, it just feels more fragile. I can only guess this is because it has no arms to absorb incoming torso damage, and its taller profile makes it an easier target.
I've only purchased the S so far, not sure I'm going to bother with the other two. So many other mechs to buy. Plus I've got Heavies covered nicely with 2 Cats, 2 Phracts and a Dragon.
Or is there something I should try that will make me love the platform? I've run dual AC-20 and quad laser builds so far. Toyed with the quad ac/2 build for a game or two, wasn't really a fan.
Jagers feel more fragile because dakka is their thing, and there's really no way to sport good, aggressive dakka on there without being ultra-slow or mounting an XL engine. Nine times out of ten, something with a pair of UAC5s on up has an XL engine.
The best use I've gotten out of Jagers is a brawler with a load of SRMs and a couple LLs with a standard engine (sooo... basically, a Catapult), double AC2 with 2 LLs and a standard engine (or with a third LL and an XL engine), or cheesing a pair of gauss rifles/AC20s (basically a gaussapult/boomcat). About the only definite upside the Jagerbomb has is it can take an XL so it isn't ass-slow, but then you've got a broad XL-carrying mech that fights from well within the the optimal range of almost everything.
Ballistic weapon are just so freaking heavy that the Jager is actually in a pretty lousy weight spot to make good use of dakka. It's heavy enough to trap people into carrying too much dakka and making themselves a glass cannon, but not heavy enough to have some really great dakka other than cheese builds. Another 10 or so tons to use and it would be awesome, but instead, you really have to settle for not-dakka if you want real durability.
I think it has more to do with the *Giant fuck off are you serious* Side torsos... you can basically shoot the left Side-torso from the *right* side.
The 'Fragile' part, anyway.
+2
KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Really been enjoying my Trebuchet - TBT-3C, XL350, 4xML, 2xSRM6w/artemis, 11DHS. I should maybe drop an ML for a HS, or just have better heat discipline.
Recently picked up a RVN-4X, which I plan on keeping for fun alongside the 3L (sue me, I like how the Ravens look, and the hitboxes are fixed, so...), but I also love Jenners (though not how they look). I'll pick up a 2X soon, basic it, then master out the 3L and 4X. Trying to get a decent build with JJs and an UAC5 with some laser backup on the 4X. Not sure it's possible. The fun build with an XL200, I think it is, AC20 and ML will also feature occasionally.
Does BAP actually DO anything at the moment, or is it... bad?
Really been enjoying my Trebuchet - TBT-3C, XL350, 4xML, 2xSRM6w/artemis, 11DHS. I should maybe drop an ML for a HS, or just have better heat discipline.
Recently picked up a RVN-4X, which I plan on keeping for fun alongside the 3L (sue me, I like how the Ravens look, and the hitboxes are fixed, so...), but I also love Jenners (though not how they look). I'll pick up a 2X soon, basic it, then master out the 3L and 4X. Trying to get a decent build with JJs and an UAC5 with some laser backup on the 4X. Not sure it's possible. The fun build with an XL200, I think it is, AC20 and ML will also feature occasionally.
Does BAP actually DO anything at the moment, or is it... bad?
BAP is useful to attach to runners so that you dont lose them behind some cover while chasing them. It is also slightly useful to attach to poptarts so that LRMs can rain down upon them. Otherwise, you are better off equiping a heatsink. (It also used to be useful for streak cats to attach to powered down mechs).
Really been enjoying my Trebuchet - TBT-3C, XL350, 4xML, 2xSRM6w/artemis, 11DHS. I should maybe drop an ML for a HS, or just have better heat discipline.
Recently picked up a RVN-4X, which I plan on keeping for fun alongside the 3L (sue me, I like how the Ravens look, and the hitboxes are fixed, so...), but I also love Jenners (though not how they look). I'll pick up a 2X soon, basic it, then master out the 3L and 4X. Trying to get a decent build with JJs and an UAC5 with some laser backup on the 4X. Not sure it's possible. The fun build with an XL200, I think it is, AC20 and ML will also feature occasionally.
Does BAP actually DO anything at the moment, or is it... bad?
BAP is useful to attach to runners so that you dont lose them behind some cover while chasing them. It is also slightly useful to attach to poptarts so that LRMs can rain down upon them. Otherwise, you are better off equiping a heatsink. (It also used to be useful for streak cats to attach to powered down mechs).
Thats NARC... BAP increases lock-on speed, increases sensor range and allows you to 'lock-on' to powered down mechs within 120m or so... its okay, if you have the free tonnage.
I run it in my Raven and ran it in my LRM cat aswell.
Any dev's will do that, blaming PGI specifically is quite frankly, wrong. Take a look at another up and coming F2P game called Warframe, they don't even have a "beta" sign attached on there home page. They also shouldn't have to push a "you are testing for bugs, and your experience might suck" because thats what a beta tag is for. Yes, it's fair for the game to be in a working state, which it is, mind you. There are bugs because of new features being added because *shocker* the game is still in development!
Base combat mechanics do work? Perhaps you need to clarify what a "base combat mechanic" is, because lasers work, ballistics work, and LRMS/SRMS work, though to a lesser degree then probably intended.
Accepting money does not mean the game is released. Don't go on kickstarter or fund Early Access games on Steam, because by that logic, all those games that are clearly still in development, are also apparently released at the same time.
So, just because you think that the game is released when clearly, it's not, nor as far as i can tell has ever been stated, and just because you look pass the beta tags, which are clearly all over the website and client. It's somehow apparent that the game is "released".
Wow.
Snarkiness and italicizing aside, I can get behind everything you have said. Sure, its true, everyone signed up for a beta, and should expect it to be buggy, and everyone of us should be expecting to be testing the beta.
However, given the non-committal rhetoric of the developers, as well as the "twostepsforward, threestepsback" patches that are consistently released, as well as the occasional redacting of hotfixes (hey, here is fixed thermal/nv, wait a minute, oops), many people start developing this attitude. You described sweeping changes being made from patch to patch, sure, but the latest patch irritated previously known bugs into being major issues (map bugs existed previously, but are now significantly worse). Many of these bugs have been around since the founders program, and still have yet to be addressed (including frequent, random disconnects/CTD, whatever).
I can tolerate these things, but I am simply mentioning why much of the frustration is present, because, after all, this is a work in progress.
The major issue I see is the release of the highlander hero variant. I could only assume the other variants are probably ready, but this just shows a shift to a more aggressive marketing strategy by creating a cult of exclusivity around mechs. Good for them, it is a lucrative business model, and given the numbers should assure them plenty of sales for future hero mechs they release prior to releasing the chasis. I still find it disconcerting that they are more focused on releasing premium content than spending time on QA to prevent many of these gamebreaking bugs.
Again, just my observations, I am not trying to put them down. I obviously enjoy this game greatly and have a lot of time and money invested in it since the release of the of the founders program.
I'll admit, a lot of my annoyance with MWO comes from their decision to launch a full retail payment model alongside an open beta that's advertised in a way that glosses over the testing aspects. It's an unfortunate side effect as companies start to monetize the development process, and it's a tad unseemly in certain cases. I'm still playing the game, so, you know...huge grain of salt and all.
That said, none of us have to know how development works, nor do we have to care. We're (beta) customers paying money, and we're not obligated to sympathize with the difficulties of their development schedule.
@billgates
As for incomplete "basic combat mechanics," look no further than missile damage. They've explicitly stated that they simply don't understand exactly how damage is applied in some circumstances, and how it's affected by things like splash damage. When they turned off splash completely in testing, all the damage went straight to CT - and they have no idea why that happens. I'd be a lot more forgiving of the general bugs if they weren't breaking stuff and going "WTF CryEngine."
Any dev's will do that, blaming PGI specifically is quite frankly, wrong. Take a look at another up and coming F2P game called Warframe, they don't even have a "beta" sign attached on there home page. They also shouldn't have to push a "you are testing for bugs, and your experience might suck" because thats what a beta tag is for. Yes, it's fair for the game to be in a working state, which it is, mind you. There are bugs because of new features being added because *shocker* the game is still in development!
Base combat mechanics do work? Perhaps you need to clarify what a "base combat mechanic" is, because lasers work, ballistics work, and LRMS/SRMS work, though to a lesser degree then probably intended.
Accepting money does not mean the game is released. Don't go on kickstarter or fund Early Access games on Steam, because by that logic, all those games that are clearly still in development, are also apparently released at the same time.
So, just because you think that the game is released when clearly, it's not, nor as far as i can tell has ever been stated, and just because you look pass the beta tags, which are clearly all over the website and client. It's somehow apparent that the game is "released".
Wow.
Snarkiness and italicizing aside, I can get behind everything you have said. Sure, its true, everyone signed up for a beta, and should expect it to be buggy, and everyone of us should be expecting to be testing the beta.
However, given the non-committal rhetoric of the developers, as well as the "twostepsforward, threestepsback" patches that are consistently released, as well as the occasional redacting of hotfixes (hey, here is fixed thermal/nv, wait a minute, oops), many people start developing this attitude. You described sweeping changes being made from patch to patch, sure, but the latest patch irritated previously known bugs into being major issues (map bugs existed previously, but are now significantly worse). Many of these bugs have been around since the founders program, and still have yet to be addressed (including frequent, random disconnects/CTD, whatever).
I can tolerate these things, but I am simply mentioning why much of the frustration is present, because, after all, this is a work in progress.
The major issue I see is the release of the highlander hero variant. I could only assume the other variants are probably ready, but this just shows a shift to a more aggressive marketing strategy by creating a cult of exclusivity around mechs. Good for them, it is a lucrative business model, and given the numbers should assure them plenty of sales for future hero mechs they release prior to releasing the chasis. I still find it disconcerting that they are more focused on releasing premium content than spending time on QA to prevent many of these gamebreaking bugs.
Again, just my observations, I am not trying to put them down. I obviously enjoy this game greatly and have a lot of time and money invested in it since the release of the of the founders program.
I'll admit, a lot of my annoyance with MWO comes from their decision to launch a full retail payment model alongside an open beta that's advertised in a way that glosses over the testing aspects. It's an unfortunate side effect as companies start to monetize the development process, and it's a tad unseemly in certain cases. I'm still playing the game, so, you know...huge grain of salt and all.
That said, none of us have to know how development works, nor do we have to care. We're (beta) customers paying money, and we're not obligated to sympathize with the difficulties of their development schedule.
@billgates
As for incomplete "basic combat mechanics," look no further than missile damage. They've explicitly stated that they simply don't understand exactly how damage is applied in some circumstances, and how it's affected by things like splash damage. When they turned off splash completely in testing, all the damage went straight to CT - and they have no idea why that happens. I'd be a lot more forgiving of the general bugs if they weren't breaking stuff and going "WTF CryEngine."
I think as a coder I'm a lot more forgiving towards development difficulties, especially when dealing with a new and apparently problematic graphics engine. Even with far less variables and coding in far less complicated programmatic areas I've come across bugs which just don't make any goddamn sense for days and days. Yes these bugs are annoying, but you can bet your oosik that they're even more annoying for the coders trying to fix them.
As for monetising the beta, as was previously mentioned it's clearly labelled as such; so there's no deceit on PGIs part in trying to grab customers cash. So long as that practice and the complete dearth of pay2win continues then I'm not going to even raise an eyebrow.
Try as I may, I'm just not warming up to the Jagermech. For whatever reason, even though it's very similar to the Catapult, it just feels more fragile. I can only guess this is because it has no arms to absorb incoming torso damage, and its taller profile makes it an easier target.
I've only purchased the S so far, not sure I'm going to bother with the other two. So many other mechs to buy. Plus I've got Heavies covered nicely with 2 Cats, 2 Phracts and a Dragon.
Or is there something I should try that will make me love the platform? I've run dual AC-20 and quad laser builds so far. Toyed with the quad ac/2 build for a game or two, wasn't really a fan.
You're not alone. I loved the look and idea of the Jaeger, but I hated playing it. I started off with the missile variant so that probably wasn't the best because I've been there and done that with my 4sp and DDC and I never roled a jaeger bomb. Instead of buying more jaegers I bought more hunchbacks and mastered the 4P, and I have two atlases and accumulating a third rather quickly. Money well spent.
Don't feel bad, the jaeger is particular, like Ninja said. It wasn't for me.
Back capping on Assault is why I've stopped moving 100% forward on River City , Caustic, and any of the "huge" maps. YOu need, NEED two mechs to hang back and assess the threat to your base. It's like playing shortstop.
I ran river city 4 times last night in my AWS 8Q and didn't move more than 400m from base and it PAID OFF.
Try as I may, I'm just not warming up to the Jagermech. For whatever reason, even though it's very similar to the Catapult, it just feels more fragile. I can only guess this is because it has no arms to absorb incoming torso damage, and its taller profile makes it an easier target.
I've only purchased the S so far, not sure I'm going to bother with the other two. So many other mechs to buy. Plus I've got Heavies covered nicely with 2 Cats, 2 Phracts and a Dragon.
Or is there something I should try that will make me love the platform? I've run dual AC-20 and quad laser builds so far. Toyed with the quad ac/2 build for a game or two, wasn't really a fan.
Like @Ninja Snarl P said, the ballistics are too heavy right now to make jager super effective, but you can still get some really fun builds. my favorite is still dual LB10X with quad MLAS. You run around and aim for people's legs, hit first with lasers to burn off armour, then kablam! Then you run away giggling. Don't get many kills but lots of fun and for some reason works really well on ravens.
You can also do quad AC5 and it works better on it than the 4X.
Dual gauss and dual ac20's are boring. Quad AC2 isn't really effective for me, maybe you have to have high speed for it. I haven't tried the variant with 6 ballistic points but I doubt 6 x AC2 would really work well.
Back capping on Assault is why I've stopped moving 100% forward on River City , Caustic, and any of the "huge" maps. YOu need, NEED two mechs to hang back and assess the threat to your base. It's like playing shortstop.
I ran river city 4 times last night in my AWS 8Q and didn't move more than 400m from base and it PAID OFF.
river city isn't huge, is it? I find it to be the perfect size really.
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VizziniUnintelligible at any speed.Maryland, USARegistered Userregular
See, with my luck, I'd hang back and get streaked to death in ten seconds by 3 lights and a cicada.
Try as I may, I'm just not warming up to the Jagermech. For whatever reason, even though it's very similar to the Catapult, it just feels more fragile. I can only guess this is because it has no arms to absorb incoming torso damage, and its taller profile makes it an easier target.
I've only purchased the S so far, not sure I'm going to bother with the other two. So many other mechs to buy. Plus I've got Heavies covered nicely with 2 Cats, 2 Phracts and a Dragon.
Or is there something I should try that will make me love the platform? I've run dual AC-20 and quad laser builds so far. Toyed with the quad ac/2 build for a game or two, wasn't really a fan.
You're not alone. I loved the look and idea of the Jaeger, but I hated playing it. I started off with the missile variant so that probably wasn't the best because I've been there and done that with my 4sp and DDC and I never roled a jaeger bomb. Instead of buying more jaegers I bought more hunchbacks and mastered the 4P, and I have two atlases and accumulating a third rather quickly. Money well spent.
Don't feel bad, the jaeger is particular, like Ninja said. It wasn't for me.
As someone who has been known to enjoy the dakka, I agree with the fragility thing. They have the armor of a Catapult, but nowhere near the same survivability. The torso twist is painfully slow to boot, so their movement speed is a bit misleading.
As a HBK-4P fan, Jagers are really easy to kill. Most people run XLs to fit the ballistic tonnage, and the side torso is huge in comparison to the Catapult. Ballistics need time to apply DPS, but Jagers don't have the profile/armor to tank, nor the maneuverability to run around like a Dragon.
Try as I may, I'm just not warming up to the Jagermech. For whatever reason, even though it's very similar to the Catapult, it just feels more fragile. I can only guess this is because it has no arms to absorb incoming torso damage, and its taller profile makes it an easier target.
I've only purchased the S so far, not sure I'm going to bother with the other two. So many other mechs to buy. Plus I've got Heavies covered nicely with 2 Cats, 2 Phracts and a Dragon.
Or is there something I should try that will make me love the platform? I've run dual AC-20 and quad laser builds so far. Toyed with the quad ac/2 build for a game or two, wasn't really a fan.
Fragile? I don't know man I keep hearing complaints about how stupid tough they are. I mean I don't feel particularly tough or fragile in mine, and there is nothing more satisfying than just delivering a sucker punch with my AC/20's and 2 MLAS. I'm pretty much able to duel any other Heavy or Assault and come out on top. Plus the torso twist is solid enough that I can absorb return fire into my arms while my AC/20 is readying itself again (much how an Atlas torso twists between volleys)
I pretty consistently get anywhere from 400-700 damage a match, and even if I make a mistake and get taken out early (pushing too far, leaving myself open etc) I typically rarely get less than 200 damage a match.
In general though my tactic is to stick with the team and provide heavy fire support. If I get isolated I'm dead pretty quick if I'm against more than 1 opponent since my back is incredibly thin and I'm running XL. Outside that though it's a very consistent mech in my experience.
The only time i've felt fragile in my Jager is when they were first released. And it turns out that was because of how broken Missiles were and how they would instantly cockpit me. Since the missile nerf though? I feel pretty standard.
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Any dev's will do that, blaming PGI specifically is quite frankly, wrong. Take a look at another up and coming F2P game called Warframe, they don't even have a "beta" sign attached on there home page. They also shouldn't have to push a "you are testing for bugs, and your experience might suck" because thats what a beta tag is for. Yes, it's fair for the game to be in a working state, which it is, mind you. There are bugs because of new features being added because *shocker* the game is still in development!
Base combat mechanics do work? Perhaps you need to clarify what a "base combat mechanic" is, because lasers work, ballistics work, and LRMS/SRMS work, though to a lesser degree then probably intended.
Accepting money does not mean the game is released. Don't go on kickstarter or fund Early Access games on Steam, because by that logic, all those games that are clearly still in development, are also apparently released at the same time.
So, just because you think that the game is released when clearly, it's not, nor as far as i can tell has ever been stated, and just because you look pass the beta tags, which are clearly all over the website and client. It's somehow apparent that the game is "released".
Wow.
Snarkiness and italicizing aside, I can get behind everything you have said. Sure, its true, everyone signed up for a beta, and should expect it to be buggy, and everyone of us should be expecting to be testing the beta.
However, given the non-committal rhetoric of the developers, as well as the "twostepsforward, threestepsback" patches that are consistently released, as well as the occasional redacting of hotfixes (hey, here is fixed thermal/nv, wait a minute, oops), many people start developing this attitude. You described sweeping changes being made from patch to patch, sure, but the latest patch irritated previously known bugs into being major issues (map bugs existed previously, but are now significantly worse). Many of these bugs have been around since the founders program, and still have yet to be addressed (including frequent, random disconnects/CTD, whatever).
I can tolerate these things, but I am simply mentioning why much of the frustration is present, because, after all, this is a work in progress.
The major issue I see is the release of the highlander hero variant. I could only assume the other variants are probably ready, but this just shows a shift to a more aggressive marketing strategy by creating a cult of exclusivity around mechs. Good for them, it is a lucrative business model, and given the numbers should assure them plenty of sales for future hero mechs they release prior to releasing the chasis. I still find it disconcerting that they are more focused on releasing premium content than spending time on QA to prevent many of these gamebreaking bugs.
Again, just my observations, I am not trying to put them down. I obviously enjoy this game greatly and have a lot of time and money invested in it since the release of the of the founders program.
I'll admit, a lot of my annoyance with MWO comes from their decision to launch a full retail payment model alongside an open beta that's advertised in a way that glosses over the testing aspects. It's an unfortunate side effect as companies start to monetize the development process, and it's a tad unseemly in certain cases. I'm still playing the game, so, you know...huge grain of salt and all.
That said, none of us have to know how development works, nor do we have to care. We're (beta) customers paying money, and we're not obligated to sympathize with the difficulties of their development schedule.
@billgates
As for incomplete "basic combat mechanics," look no further than missile damage. They've explicitly stated that they simply don't understand exactly how damage is applied in some circumstances, and how it's affected by things like splash damage. When they turned off splash completely in testing, all the damage went straight to CT - and they have no idea why that happens. I'd be a lot more forgiving of the general bugs if they weren't breaking stuff and going "WTF CryEngine."
I think as a coder I'm a lot more forgiving towards development difficulties, especially when dealing with a new and apparently problematic graphics engine. Even with far less variables and coding in far less complicated programmatic areas I've come across bugs which just don't make any goddamn sense for days and days. Yes these bugs are annoying, but you can bet your oosik that they're even more annoying for the coders trying to fix them.
I was a terrible waiter for a few weeks when I first moved to the US east coast after college, so I give restaurant servers the benefit of the doubt after seeing how it really works. I can see where you're coming from. I just hope CW goes a bit more smoothly...
Back capping on Assault is why I've stopped moving 100% forward on River City , Caustic, and any of the "huge" maps. YOu need, NEED two mechs to hang back and assess the threat to your base. It's like playing shortstop.
I ran river city 4 times last night in my AWS 8Q and didn't move more than 400m from base and it PAID OFF.
river city isn't huge, is it? I find it to be the perfect size really.
It's not, but it has a very difficult(and unsafe) trek back to base if you over-extend. In my opinion.
See, with my luck, I'd hang back and get streaked to death in ten seconds by 3 lights and a cicada.
This almost happened to me on River City last night with Oosik four-mans. (Or maybe three-mans.)
Thing is, I was in a 113kph 50 tonner. And then four lights turned up.
Survived the match, set up some kills, and Vedic, Bolt and Kaeb were kind enough to come back and give me some help with them while I tried to defend the base.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
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VizziniUnintelligible at any speed.Maryland, USARegistered Userregular
I just need to find time where I can jump on vent more often. Then I can cry about the sky falling and at least someone will know what's happening and at least get back in time to stop a cap.
Posts
I remember using a motley crew consisting primarily of a forestry 'mech with no guns, a construction 'mech (which was awesome; it totally had a gun strapped on there) and the pride of my army; a real battlemech--my Targe*. Later I managed to win a tournament and got this little artillery tank that was actually pretty good.
I used to have the Targe run out to the edge of a forest tile where it received some kind of armor bonus and became an annoying unhittable piece of shit. The rest of my army would hang back in a mishmash of support vehicles and mixed infantry while my artillery guy did his thing. No one ever payed any attention to my industrial 'mechs until it was too late, and my construction 'mech would obliterate an entire formation of infantry at once (it had some kind of huge attack bonus and an antipersonnel ability). Then they'd shoot it, only to find out that while having basically no armor it's still just a cobbled-together junker and has no repair limit, so I'd just have my little trucks repair it to full power next turn.
When the time was right, I'd have the forestry 'mech charge in from across the map (it was stupidly fast) and bonk the fanciest thing on the board with its giant wrecking ball, then capture the damaged target with infantry.
I used to piss off so many srs bzns MechWarrior nerds with their fancy Mad Cats and unique tanks.
*The Targe is a light 'mech known primarily for being really shitty.
The devs have managed expectations in a lot of ways to imply a level of stability and completeness that goes beyond the strict "Beta" definition. This is a marketing beta, plain and simple. I can't be bothered to look up the actual instances, and they stick to the company line officially in any event.
Thing is, when you accept money from people (and explicitly state there will be no more wipes), you're in a release whether you admit it or not. It's fair to expect this product to be in a working state. These days, an open beta usually isn't even really about load testing or the like; it's a way to get publicity and cash flow. And considering CW is coming so soon, they really should have their shit more together with respect to base combat mechanics, stability, and balance.
You can argue they never promise a 100% finished product, but they also never push the usual "you are testing for bugs, and your experience might suck" aspect either. Every ad I've seen says "Play MechWarrior Online Today!!" just like any other fully released F2P game.
Any dev's will do that, blaming PGI specifically is quite frankly, wrong. Take a look at another up and coming F2P game called Warframe, they don't even have a "beta" sign attached on there home page. They also shouldn't have to push a "you are testing for bugs, and your experience might suck" because thats what a beta tag is for. Yes, it's fair for the game to be in a working state, which it is, mind you. There are bugs because of new features being added because *shocker* the game is still in development!
Base combat mechanics do work? Perhaps you need to clarify what a "base combat mechanic" is, because lasers work, ballistics work, and LRMS/SRMS work, though to a lesser degree then probably intended.
Accepting money does not mean the game is released. Don't go on kickstarter or fund Early Access games on Steam, because by that logic, all those games that are clearly still in development, are also apparently released at the same time.
So, just because you think that the game is released when clearly, it's not, nor as far as i can tell has ever been stated, and just because you look pass the beta tags, which are clearly all over the website and client. It's somehow apparent that the game is "released".
Wow.
Man, can't wait until they patch that crap.
ECM should only get toned down if missiles are changed - LRMs and Streaks don't have the "homing" effect in TT that they do - they are as hard to aim with as any ballistic or laser weapon. Unless they can adjust for that, then ECM necessarily needs to be stronger.
Snarkiness and italicizing aside, I can get behind everything you have said. Sure, its true, everyone signed up for a beta, and should expect it to be buggy, and everyone of us should be expecting to be testing the beta.
However, given the non-committal rhetoric of the developers, as well as the "two steps forward, three steps back" patches that are consistently released, as well as the occasional redacting of hotfixes (hey, here is fixed thermal/nv, wait a minute, oops), many people start developing this attitude. You described sweeping changes being made from patch to patch, sure, but the latest patch irritated previously known bugs into being major issues (map bugs existed previously, but are now significantly worse). Many of these bugs have been around since the founders program, and still have yet to be addressed (including frequent, random disconnects/CTD, whatever).
I can tolerate these things, but I am simply mentioning why much of the frustration is present, because, after all, this is a work in progress.
The major issue I see is the release of the highlander hero variant. I could only assume the other variants are probably ready, but this just shows a shift to a more aggressive marketing strategy by creating a cult of exclusivity around mechs. Good for them, it is a lucrative business model, and given the numbers should assure them plenty of sales for future hero mechs they release prior to releasing the chasis. I still find it disconcerting that they are more focused on releasing premium content than spending time on QA to prevent many of these gamebreaking bugs.
Again, just my observations, I am not trying to put them down. I obviously enjoy this game greatly and have a lot of time and money invested in it since the release of the of the founders program.
Had the exact same thing happen, against probably the same bullshit premade. Yeah, it was absolutely hilarious when we did 8-man Commando caps back in closed beta, but that got old quick. And getting a quick cap doesn't even pay well, so what's the point?
Alpine and Tourmaline make assault need a survivor-based speed reduction of cap so bad it's not even funny. Got four fast mechs sitting on the cap and the whole enemy team is still alive? Tough shit, you cap at a quarter the rate of a single mech. Nobody wants matches where people are just exploiting the ELO to pad their W/L ratio.
Yeah. Matchmaking should be class then elo. Can't be that hard to just add that little bit.
Probably, they were pretty obviously trolling. They even got off the point for a little bit until I came into sight then stepped back on and finished capping right before I made it there while laughing in chat.
These are really weird builds. That's way too much stuff for me to keep track of, I have like a 3 or 4 weapon limit, after which I start to forget to use things for full effect. More power to you, apparently you can make it work!
Or maybe (stay with me here) it should do the balancing before committing half the players in a match to a game. No more of this "alright, these five pilots are in the game, now here's a bunch of other guys who are actually waaaay unbalanced for this match, but it's too late because everybody is already in the game". Matches that take longer to start should mean they're more balanced, not less, because the ELO should then be spending a longer time grabbing people to have even matches. And for shit's sake, there needs to a class of "filler" players who can get dropped in to replace players who DC before a match starts so we can stop having this stupid 6-on-8 crap.
Currently, if the ELO is running more than about 20-30 seconds, I close the MWO launcher and and log back in. No way am I knowingly going to keep entering matches which will be unbalanced and I can't do a damn thing about it.
Just trying to describe the current climate of the community and a large part of the frustration I've seen in game, on the MWO official forums and around fellow irregualrs. I've been vocal about my distaste for the state of the game, but still continue to play, and still monetarily support PGI, because I think this is a great game.
I would like to see an option to change mechs before the game is officially started, to allow PUGs to have time to optimize teams. Maybe its batshit crazy, but if I joined a game as an ECM light, and we already had 3 ECM lights, I would like to be able to change what I brought to the fight. Currently running premades is the only way to guarantee some sort of consistency.
Edit:
And I will go so far as to say, ELO isn't an effective way of matchmaking. It randomizes the lineups, but thats about it.
To be fair, PGI did ask the community about the future releasing of Hero and new mechs at the same time and the community did vote they liked it with heroes being released first.
Yeah, sure buddy. I'm sure when I take my scout lance to cap Assault on Desert/Arctic, your coordinated non-scout lance can deal with that if they didn't already know it was coming from our names.
mininova [TBT-5J]: 5xLLAS, 300XL, DHS, Endo, Ferro
I've only purchased the S so far, not sure I'm going to bother with the other two. So many other mechs to buy. Plus I've got Heavies covered nicely with 2 Cats, 2 Phracts and a Dragon.
Or is there something I should try that will make me love the platform? I've run dual AC-20 and quad laser builds so far. Toyed with the quad ac/2 build for a game or two, wasn't really a fan.
Jagers feel more fragile because dakka is their thing, and there's really no way to sport good, aggressive dakka on there without being ultra-slow or mounting an XL engine. Nine times out of ten, something with a pair of UAC5s on up has an XL engine.
The best use I've gotten out of Jagers is a brawler with a load of SRMs and a couple LLs with a standard engine (sooo... basically, a Catapult), double AC2 with 2 LLs and a standard engine (or with a third LL and an XL engine), or cheesing a pair of gauss rifles/AC20s (basically a gaussapult/boomcat). About the only definite upside the Jagerbomb has is it can take an XL so it isn't ass-slow, but then you've got a broad XL-carrying mech that fights from well within the the optimal range of almost everything.
Ballistic weapon are just so freaking heavy that the Jager is actually in a pretty lousy weight spot to make good use of dakka. It's heavy enough to trap people into carrying too much dakka and making themselves a glass cannon, but not heavy enough to have some really great dakka other than cheese builds. Another 10 or so tons to use and it would be awesome, but instead, you really have to settle for not-dakka if you want real durability.
MWO: Adamski
I think it has more to do with the *Giant fuck off are you serious* Side torsos... you can basically shoot the left Side-torso from the *right* side.
The 'Fragile' part, anyway.
Recently picked up a RVN-4X, which I plan on keeping for fun alongside the 3L (sue me, I like how the Ravens look, and the hitboxes are fixed, so...), but I also love Jenners (though not how they look). I'll pick up a 2X soon, basic it, then master out the 3L and 4X. Trying to get a decent build with JJs and an UAC5 with some laser backup on the 4X. Not sure it's possible. The fun build with an XL200, I think it is, AC20 and ML will also feature occasionally.
Does BAP actually DO anything at the moment, or is it... bad?
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
BAP is useful to attach to runners so that you dont lose them behind some cover while chasing them. It is also slightly useful to attach to poptarts so that LRMs can rain down upon them. Otherwise, you are better off equiping a heatsink. (It also used to be useful for streak cats to attach to powered down mechs).
MWO: Adamski
Thats NARC... BAP increases lock-on speed, increases sensor range and allows you to 'lock-on' to powered down mechs within 120m or so... its okay, if you have the free tonnage.
I run it in my Raven and ran it in my LRM cat aswell.
I'll admit, a lot of my annoyance with MWO comes from their decision to launch a full retail payment model alongside an open beta that's advertised in a way that glosses over the testing aspects. It's an unfortunate side effect as companies start to monetize the development process, and it's a tad unseemly in certain cases. I'm still playing the game, so, you know...huge grain of salt and all.
That said, none of us have to know how development works, nor do we have to care. We're (beta) customers paying money, and we're not obligated to sympathize with the difficulties of their development schedule.
@billgates
As for incomplete "basic combat mechanics," look no further than missile damage. They've explicitly stated that they simply don't understand exactly how damage is applied in some circumstances, and how it's affected by things like splash damage. When they turned off splash completely in testing, all the damage went straight to CT - and they have no idea why that happens. I'd be a lot more forgiving of the general bugs if they weren't breaking stuff and going "WTF CryEngine."
I think as a coder I'm a lot more forgiving towards development difficulties, especially when dealing with a new and apparently problematic graphics engine. Even with far less variables and coding in far less complicated programmatic areas I've come across bugs which just don't make any goddamn sense for days and days. Yes these bugs are annoying, but you can bet your oosik that they're even more annoying for the coders trying to fix them.
As for monetising the beta, as was previously mentioned it's clearly labelled as such; so there's no deceit on PGIs part in trying to grab customers cash. So long as that practice and the complete dearth of pay2win continues then I'm not going to even raise an eyebrow.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
You're not alone. I loved the look and idea of the Jaeger, but I hated playing it. I started off with the missile variant so that probably wasn't the best because I've been there and done that with my 4sp and DDC and I never roled a jaeger bomb. Instead of buying more jaegers I bought more hunchbacks and mastered the 4P, and I have two atlases and accumulating a third rather quickly. Money well spent.
Don't feel bad, the jaeger is particular, like Ninja said. It wasn't for me.
I ran river city 4 times last night in my AWS 8Q and didn't move more than 400m from base and it PAID OFF.
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
Like @Ninja Snarl P said, the ballistics are too heavy right now to make jager super effective, but you can still get some really fun builds. my favorite is still dual LB10X with quad MLAS. You run around and aim for people's legs, hit first with lasers to burn off armour, then kablam! Then you run away giggling. Don't get many kills but lots of fun and for some reason works really well on ravens.
You can also do quad AC5 and it works better on it than the 4X.
Dual gauss and dual ac20's are boring. Quad AC2 isn't really effective for me, maybe you have to have high speed for it. I haven't tried the variant with 6 ballistic points but I doubt 6 x AC2 would really work well.
river city isn't huge, is it? I find it to be the perfect size really.
As someone who has been known to enjoy the dakka, I agree with the fragility thing. They have the armor of a Catapult, but nowhere near the same survivability. The torso twist is painfully slow to boot, so their movement speed is a bit misleading.
As a HBK-4P fan, Jagers are really easy to kill. Most people run XLs to fit the ballistic tonnage, and the side torso is huge in comparison to the Catapult. Ballistics need time to apply DPS, but Jagers don't have the profile/armor to tank, nor the maneuverability to run around like a Dragon.
Fragile? I don't know man I keep hearing complaints about how stupid tough they are. I mean I don't feel particularly tough or fragile in mine, and there is nothing more satisfying than just delivering a sucker punch with my AC/20's and 2 MLAS. I'm pretty much able to duel any other Heavy or Assault and come out on top. Plus the torso twist is solid enough that I can absorb return fire into my arms while my AC/20 is readying itself again (much how an Atlas torso twists between volleys)
I pretty consistently get anywhere from 400-700 damage a match, and even if I make a mistake and get taken out early (pushing too far, leaving myself open etc) I typically rarely get less than 200 damage a match.
In general though my tactic is to stick with the team and provide heavy fire support. If I get isolated I'm dead pretty quick if I'm against more than 1 opponent since my back is incredibly thin and I'm running XL. Outside that though it's a very consistent mech in my experience.
The only time i've felt fragile in my Jager is when they were first released. And it turns out that was because of how broken Missiles were and how they would instantly cockpit me. Since the missile nerf though? I feel pretty standard.
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I was a terrible waiter for a few weeks when I first moved to the US east coast after college, so I give restaurant servers the benefit of the doubt after seeing how it really works. I can see where you're coming from. I just hope CW goes a bit more smoothly...
It's not, but it has a very difficult(and unsafe) trek back to base if you over-extend. In my opinion.
Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
Thing is, I was in a 113kph 50 tonner. And then four lights turned up.
Survived the match, set up some kills, and Vedic, Bolt and Kaeb were kind enough to come back and give me some help with them while I tried to defend the base.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991