Judging from this thread, if an accident happens anywhere else in the world, it's a terrible awful event.
If it happens in Texas, what a bunch of fucking idiots, right?
Depends if it being Texas in any way could've 'helped' this happen such as state regulations being noticeably lower than other places. Though even then it would just be a good reason to show why those things are helpful, rather than make statements about Texas as a whole.
I say this as someone who isn't particularly fond of a lot of the stuff that comes out of Texas.
I think you missed my point. You know what I do after events like this, where people lose their life, sustain injury, and see their property destroyed? I withhold my judgment and opinion about what went wrong until more facts are known.
And whether you like what comes out of Texas or not, I didn't say "gosh what a bunch of shiftless layabouts at the Boston Marathon for not recognizing those bombs".
So, in conclusion, fuck y'all, I'm out.
I do agree and I apologize if my post was ambiguous. It was more "If anything eventually comes out of this in regards to the how or why, it should be more about regulations in general and not necessarily just how Texas handles it." I very much feel that is something to be discussed later, mind you, but still something that should be 'on the docket'.
As for my comment on disliking Texas, that was merely to point out that even as one who isn't a fan of the place, I don't think it's right to judge any place for something like this. I'm, once again, sorry if I seem to be antagonizing you or not understanding you.
I'm kind of surprised folks in the US don't know fertilizer can be explosive to be honest. I was a kid when the Oklahoma City bombing occured, but I still remember them talking about fertilizer being one of the main components.
I do hope this spurs other places to check up on safety procedures for buildings near plants like this. One tragedy is enough, let's make sure any uncontrolled plant fires include immediate evacuation of the surrounding areas in the future.
But this is part of the somewhat informed blanket assumptions that are leading people to think they already know that this was a failure in zoning/infrastructure. This idea that fertilizer is explosive is naive. A component of many fertilizers, ammonium nitrate, is indeed explosive and needs to be handled with care. What's not clear is if ammonium nitrate was even stored at this facility let alone if it was the cause of the explosion. So please, could people slow down with drawing conclusions and making proclamations based on scant information and layman's knowledge?
To be fair, after the North Korean train explosion, one of my first questions was, "Who the hell sticks a school next to an industrial railyard that transports volatile chemicals?"
Seemingly my trigger is bad school placement, regardless of the national or state boundary within which it occurs.
Judging from this thread, if an accident happens anywhere else in the world, it's a terrible awful event.
If it happens in Texas, what a bunch of fucking idiots, right?
...what?
someone asked "why is a potentially explosive fertilizer plant located next to a school"
one person responded "TEXAS"
a number of others chimed in and explained that yes this sort of thing is quite possible to happen in texas and in this area in particular due to a differing attitude regarding zoning laws and grandfathering in of properties and lack of resources and etc.
nowhere in any of that is someone denigrating or insulting the intelligence of people who happen to live in texas
Let's also make assumptions about some dude who filmed a fire.
I think it's something that isn't necessary to the discussion about an industrial accident in a small town. Of course, my thoughts don't influence the posts of this thread, but I thought my exaggerated comment would dissuade further assumptions.
Hell, when I was at football practice a natural gas facility blew up just a couple miles down the road.
My school also backed up to a demolition site where they would regularly blast shit and we would feel it in class.
I completely understand how an industrial facility ends up near a bunch of other shit in a small town, especially in a growing area along the I35 corridor.
That was my whole thing.
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
I'm kind of surprised folks in the US don't know fertilizer can be explosive to be honest. I was a kid when the Oklahoma City bombing occured, but I still remember them talking about fertilizer being one of the main components.
I do hope this spurs other places to check up on safety procedures for buildings near plants like this. One tragedy is enough, let's make sure any uncontrolled plant fires include immediate evacuation of the surrounding areas in the future.
But this is part of the somewhat informed blanket assumptions that are leading people to think they already know that this was a failure in zoning/infrastructure. This idea that fertilizer is explosive is naive. A component of many fertilizers, ammonium nitrate, is indeed explosive and needs to be handled with care. What's not clear is if ammonium nitrate was even stored at this facility let alone if it was the cause of the explosion. So please, could people slow down with drawing conclusions and making proclamations based on scant information and layman's knowledge?
Also not like you can ask for the MSDS for a burning building that you're observing.
diablo III - beardsnbeer#1508 Mechwarrior Online - Rusty Bock
+1
Quoththe RavenMiami, FL FOR REALRegistered Userregular
Yeah, kids are sort of my trigger
I was super sad yesterday thinking of all the people whose dads and brothers and sons wouldn't be going home to their families, but hearing the place was next to a school made my brain go all blank and ragey
I'm kind of surprised folks in the US don't know fertilizer can be explosive to be honest. I was a kid when the Oklahoma City bombing occured, but I still remember them talking about fertilizer being one of the main components.
I do hope this spurs other places to check up on safety procedures for buildings near plants like this. One tragedy is enough, let's make sure any uncontrolled plant fires include immediate evacuation of the surrounding areas in the future.
But this is part of the somewhat informed blanket assumptions that are leading people to think they already know that this was a failure in zoning/infrastructure. This idea that fertilizer is explosive is naive. A component of many fertilizers, ammonium nitrate, is indeed explosive and needs to be handled with care. What's not clear is if ammonium nitrate was even stored at this facility let alone if it was the cause of the explosion. So please, could people slow down with drawing conclusions and making proclamations based on scant information and layman's knowledge?
I realize you aren't talking directly to me with regard to the zoning discussion, but clearly, whatever was stored there WAS explosive.
I'm simply saying that in light of this accident, maybe we should look at other plants located in similar circumstances and make sure that emergency plans are up to snuff. The odds that this is the only plant near schools/housing/etc in the entire U.S. seems slim.
I'm kind of surprised folks in the US don't know fertilizer can be explosive to be honest. I was a kid when the Oklahoma City bombing occured, but I still remember them talking about fertilizer being one of the main components.
I do hope this spurs other places to check up on safety procedures for buildings near plants like this. One tragedy is enough, let's make sure any uncontrolled plant fires include immediate evacuation of the surrounding areas in the future.
But this is part of the somewhat informed blanket assumptions that are leading people to think they already know that this was a failure in zoning/infrastructure. This idea that fertilizer is explosive is naive. A component of many fertilizers, ammonium nitrate, is indeed explosive and needs to be handled with care. What's not clear is if ammonium nitrate was even stored at this facility let alone if it was the cause of the explosion. So please, could people slow down with drawing conclusions and making proclamations based on scant information and layman's knowledge?
I realize you aren't talking directly to me with regard to the zoning discussion, but clearly, whatever was stored there WAS explosive.
I'm simply saying that in light of this accident, maybe we should look at other plants located in similar circumstances and make sure that emergency plans are up to snuff. The odds that this is the only plant near schools/housing/etc in the entire U.S. seems slim.
To be fair there are regulations and such to keep this sort of thing from happening
Compliance and enforcement are subject to local authorities involvement/availability/funding/giving a crap, and depending on the area that can be a very different sort of gig
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MetalbourneInside a cluster b personalityRegistered Userregular
I was super sad yesterday thinking of all the people whose dads and brothers and sons wouldn't be going home to their families, but hearing the place was next to a school made my brain go all blank and ragey
So did anyone at the school die? Or the nursing home? Or the kitten habitat or whatever else is pulling on everyone's heart strings? Just because there was a school nearby, and keep in mind that the word nearby is incredibly relative, doesn't mean there was any wrongdoing or criminal negligence going on. Calm down, you guys.
I was super sad yesterday thinking of all the people whose dads and brothers and sons wouldn't be going home to their families, but hearing the place was next to a school made my brain go all blank and ragey
So did anyone at the school die? Or the nursing home? Or the kitten habitat or whatever else is pulling on everyone's heart strings? Just because there was a school nearby, and keep in mind that the word nearby is incredibly relative, doesn't mean there was any wrongdoing or criminal negligence going on. Calm down, you guys.
I was wondering about this. I poked through a few articles and didn't see anything about the school, but there were injuries and damage at the nursing home from what I saw.
wouldn't imagine many people were injured at the school, because the explosion happened at 8pm
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EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
My understanding from the articles was that the majority of the deaths and serious injuries were from firefighters and facility employees fighting the fires pre-explosion.
I was super sad yesterday thinking of all the people whose dads and brothers and sons wouldn't be going home to their families, but hearing the place was next to a school made my brain go all blank and ragey
So did anyone at the school die? Or the nursing home? Or the kitten habitat or whatever else is pulling on everyone's heart strings? Just because there was a school nearby, and keep in mind that the word nearby is incredibly relative, doesn't mean there was any wrongdoing or criminal negligence going on. Calm down, you guys.
Yeah okay, I'll stop having emotional reactions to things, let me just get in touch with the appropriate glands and tell them to take it easy next time
Maybe you can help me craft a stern letter to my heart
Also, most of us probably near something that has the potential to cause a bunch of damage. Boston has ships coming in with liquified natural gas all the time, and it's pretty well known how much damage that would cause if there were an accident. That's actually what my wife thought happened when she heard about an explosion on Monday.
+3
EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
To add on to that, you have over a football field and a half between the building that caught fire and exploded and either the School or the Nursing home. Both have a barrier of trees and other structures between them and the facility.
Yeah beforw we knew the boston thing was a bomb, a nat. Gas line explosion was among the things i thought it could be
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EncA Fool with CompassionPronouns: He, Him, HisRegistered Userregular
In Florida, I always assume some sort of truck explosion. We have hazardous materials going through areas all the time via trucks and those things have been known to explode on or near highways with mild frequency.
I didn't really intend for it to be an argument, I just stated my opinion about the dude filming and the assumptions behind it.
Do with it what you will.
I agree that he's a minor part of this story, which should focus on the content of that BBC link, and the criminal amount of negligence used at that plant which led to this "accident".
The bbc report says nothing about criminal negligence. I'm guessing you're talking about the TCEQ citation in '06. They primarily monitor air quality/co2 emissions and the like, and odds are that was the case here too. Plus, no further citations since then indicates they likely fixed the problem.
It's also fucking insulting that you'd put accident in quotations.
It's extremely unfortunate when this happens, and engineers work hard to design their plants to limit these incidents. Plants are extremely complicated and any number of things can go wrong without warning, even with a proper inspection plan. Let's wait for the investigation before you say shit like that.
I heard that the VFD that responded to the initial fire figured out that this was beyond them and turned around to start evacing the apartments and nursing home before the explosion went off.
I used to live in West. I have family and friends that are still there, or mere miles down the road. My nephew was playing baseball there last night and was tossed a few feet off the ground when the explosion happened, about a mile away. My sister's house is pretty much imploded from the force of the blast. My dad's best friend knows all of the first responders that are still missing very well. My sister's friend lived in the apartment building that is now basically leveled. Her 4 year old son was missing but has been found safe, but her husband is currently unaccounted for.
This shit sucks.
Basically the core of West has been decimated. West is the closest thing to Mayberry I've ever experienced, and while the people and town will recover because those are some gritty ass people there, it's going to take awhile. There's been an incredible outpouring so far and I was really glad to hear that the blood bank in Austin has already surpassed what they will need to treat the injured in the town. I'm just heartbroken because I absolutely love that town, it's a source of many good childhood memories and when I go back in June I'm scared to see what it looks like.
For those wondering why a fertilizer plant was so close to whatever it's close to...keep in mind that small towns like West and all the towns surrounding it are generally built around what brings the money and jobs to the area. It's very common. It's a different world than most people nowadays are used to. It's terrifying when something like this happens, sure, but it doesn't happen often.
As far as the cause of the explosion, from what I've heard the VFD, as mentioned earlier in the thread, responded to a small fire and quickly realized they needed to evacuate anyone surrounding the area. While they were doing that it exploded. There's some speculation that the anhydrous ammonia stored at the plant went boom when it somehow contacted water being used to douse the fire and caused the explosion, but I'm sure we won't know anything for days at least.
Either way, I'm devastated for the entire community there, but I know they'll rebuild. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
I hope it was clear that my last post was just sassing
Seeing the pictures, the school and nursing home are close but certainly not, like, rubbing butts or anything
And accidents do happen, even in the best of cases, so time will tell how this all went down
Especially with that one article suggesting the company may have misled inspectors or licensing agencies about what was stored on premises or whatever. What was understood to be in the facility may have been substantially safer than whatever might end up actually exploding. We'll see.
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Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
How old was this place, anyhow? Are there more modern designs? Are they safer? If so, should they build another one cause I guess this town kind of needs the revenue.
Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
Like I don't want to seem crass, but going from your post they really kind of need something like this. I mean, perhaps there is something less inherently dangerous when accidents happen, but either way I'd hate to see a small town just get kind of ghosted.
Like I don't want to seem crass, but going from your post they really kind of need something like this. I mean, perhaps there is something less inherently dangerous when accidents happen, but either way I'd hate to see a small town just get kind of ghosted.
I
what
why
this seems like a post you really should have thought about for several minutes before hitting the post button
+11
Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
I.. I meant an income source. Not the accident itself. Unless you're asking why I'm wondering about how the town can stay solvent in which case I.. I don't know what to tell you.
Posts
I do agree and I apologize if my post was ambiguous. It was more "If anything eventually comes out of this in regards to the how or why, it should be more about regulations in general and not necessarily just how Texas handles it." I very much feel that is something to be discussed later, mind you, but still something that should be 'on the docket'.
As for my comment on disliking Texas, that was merely to point out that even as one who isn't a fan of the place, I don't think it's right to judge any place for something like this. I'm, once again, sorry if I seem to be antagonizing you or not understanding you.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
But this is part of the somewhat informed blanket assumptions that are leading people to think they already know that this was a failure in zoning/infrastructure. This idea that fertilizer is explosive is naive. A component of many fertilizers, ammonium nitrate, is indeed explosive and needs to be handled with care. What's not clear is if ammonium nitrate was even stored at this facility let alone if it was the cause of the explosion. So please, could people slow down with drawing conclusions and making proclamations based on scant information and layman's knowledge?
Seemingly my trigger is bad school placement, regardless of the national or state boundary within which it occurs.
Let's also make assumptions about some dude who filmed a fire.
I think it's something that isn't necessary to the discussion about an industrial accident in a small town. Of course, my thoughts don't influence the posts of this thread, but I thought my exaggerated comment would dissuade further assumptions.
Hell, when I was at football practice a natural gas facility blew up just a couple miles down the road.
My school also backed up to a demolition site where they would regularly blast shit and we would feel it in class.
I completely understand how an industrial facility ends up near a bunch of other shit in a small town, especially in a growing area along the I35 corridor.
That was my whole thing.
Also not like you can ask for the MSDS for a burning building that you're observing.
I was super sad yesterday thinking of all the people whose dads and brothers and sons wouldn't be going home to their families, but hearing the place was next to a school made my brain go all blank and ragey
: /
I realize you aren't talking directly to me with regard to the zoning discussion, but clearly, whatever was stored there WAS explosive.
I'm simply saying that in light of this accident, maybe we should look at other plants located in similar circumstances and make sure that emergency plans are up to snuff. The odds that this is the only plant near schools/housing/etc in the entire U.S. seems slim.
luckily we just had a cold front and rain roll in
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Or we could:
To be fair there are regulations and such to keep this sort of thing from happening
Compliance and enforcement are subject to local authorities involvement/availability/funding/giving a crap, and depending on the area that can be a very different sort of gig
So did anyone at the school die? Or the nursing home? Or the kitten habitat or whatever else is pulling on everyone's heart strings? Just because there was a school nearby, and keep in mind that the word nearby is incredibly relative, doesn't mean there was any wrongdoing or criminal negligence going on. Calm down, you guys.
I was wondering about this. I poked through a few articles and didn't see anything about the school, but there were injuries and damage at the nursing home from what I saw.
i've made quite a few pitstops in west over the years for them kolaches. i always thought it was a really nice town. so sad.
Yeah okay, I'll stop having emotional reactions to things, let me just get in touch with the appropriate glands and tell them to take it easy next time
Maybe you can help me craft a stern letter to my heart
The bbc report says nothing about criminal negligence. I'm guessing you're talking about the TCEQ citation in '06. They primarily monitor air quality/co2 emissions and the like, and odds are that was the case here too. Plus, no further citations since then indicates they likely fixed the problem.
It's also fucking insulting that you'd put accident in quotations.
It's extremely unfortunate when this happens, and engineers work hard to design their plants to limit these incidents. Plants are extremely complicated and any number of things can go wrong without warning, even with a proper inspection plan. Let's wait for the investigation before you say shit like that.
Seeing the pictures, the school and nursing home are close but certainly not, like, rubbing butts or anything
And accidents do happen, even in the best of cases, so time will tell how this all went down
This shit sucks.
Basically the core of West has been decimated. West is the closest thing to Mayberry I've ever experienced, and while the people and town will recover because those are some gritty ass people there, it's going to take awhile. There's been an incredible outpouring so far and I was really glad to hear that the blood bank in Austin has already surpassed what they will need to treat the injured in the town. I'm just heartbroken because I absolutely love that town, it's a source of many good childhood memories and when I go back in June I'm scared to see what it looks like.
For those wondering why a fertilizer plant was so close to whatever it's close to...keep in mind that small towns like West and all the towns surrounding it are generally built around what brings the money and jobs to the area. It's very common. It's a different world than most people nowadays are used to. It's terrifying when something like this happens, sure, but it doesn't happen often.
As far as the cause of the explosion, from what I've heard the VFD, as mentioned earlier in the thread, responded to a small fire and quickly realized they needed to evacuate anyone surrounding the area. While they were doing that it exploded. There's some speculation that the anhydrous ammonia stored at the plant went boom when it somehow contacted water being used to douse the fire and caused the explosion, but I'm sure we won't know anything for days at least.
Either way, I'm devastated for the entire community there, but I know they'll rebuild. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
Especially with that one article suggesting the company may have misled inspectors or licensing agencies about what was stored on premises or whatever. What was understood to be in the facility may have been substantially safer than whatever might end up actually exploding. We'll see.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
I
what
why
this seems like a post you really should have thought about for several minutes before hitting the post button
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass