I used to live in West. I have family and friends that are still there, or mere miles down the road. My nephew was playing baseball there last night and was tossed a few feet off the ground when the explosion happened, about a mile away. My sister's house is pretty much imploded from the force of the blast. My dad's best friend knows all of the first responders that are still missing very well. My sister's friend lived in the apartment building that is now basically leveled. Her 4 year old son was missing but has been found safe, but her husband is currently unaccounted for.
This shit sucks.
Basically the core of West has been decimated. West is the closest thing to Mayberry I've ever experienced, and while the people and town will recover because those are some gritty ass people there, it's going to take awhile. There's been an incredible outpouring so far and I was really glad to hear that the blood bank in Austin has already surpassed what they will need to treat the injured in the town. I'm just heartbroken because I absolutely love that town, it's a source of many good childhood memories and when I go back in June I'm scared to see what it looks like.
For those wondering why a fertilizer plant was so close to whatever it's close to...keep in mind that small towns like West and all the towns surrounding it are generally built around what brings the money and jobs to the area. It's very common. It's a different world than most people nowadays are used to. It's terrifying when something like this happens, sure, but it doesn't happen often.
As far as the cause of the explosion, from what I've heard the VFD, as mentioned earlier in the thread, responded to a small fire and quickly realized they needed to evacuate anyone surrounding the area. While they were doing that it exploded. There's some speculation that the anhydrous ammonia stored at the plant went boom when it somehow contacted water being used to douse the fire and caused the explosion, but I'm sure we won't know anything for days at least.
Either way, I'm devastated for the entire community there, but I know they'll rebuild. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
Dude. All the hugs, for your family and friends and everyone.
+19
Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
Yeah I didn't realize people would interpret that since it would seem so.. insane? My apologies, though. I was just asking if there is something else the town can use to fund itself (perhaps something with less possible dangers). I don't think anything like this would ever be a good/necessary thing.
But to sorta answer your question, I did some googling earlier, and there have only been something like 15 accidental explosions at fertilizer plants in the past... century or so? It's not like they're death traps by any stretch of the imagination.
The town isn't funded only by the fertilizer plant, though that is a big source of income. It's your average small town, with various homegrown businesses and Mom and Pop shops and local restaurants and whatnot. It's also the Kolache capital of the world, so the bakery business alone in that town is very lucrative. It is, though, at its heart a farming community and in addition to fertilizer that plant handled grain, feed and various farming equipment.
Most of the people there are either self-sufficient or they work in the larger towns surrounding it. The hardest part isn't going to be replacing the fertilizer business, it's going to be the various business owners repairing and reopening their shops or businesses and the people whose homes were leveled recovering from that. And, of course, the people who lost loved ones.
0
Magus`The fun has been DOUBLED!Registered Userregular
Does FEMA (I think that's what it is called) help with this? Or is that only for natural disasters? I feel like I should know this.
Well it's been declared an official disaster area, President Obama sped the process along once Rick Perry requested it, so FEMA is standing by to help once they get the clear to go in.
Those killed include five members of the West Volunteer Fire Department who were trying to put out the initial blaze, four EMS workers and an off-duty Dallas firefighter who pitched in to help, he said. Not all the bodies have been recovered but all are assumed dead, he said.
"It's just a tragic, tragic incident," Muska said.
Two volunteers who showed up to help fight the blaze are also missing and presumed dead, he said.
The rest of the fatalities include residents from nearby homes in the devastated four-block area of this north-central Texas town 80 miles south of Dallas, the mayor added.
My sister in law has an aunt who worked at the nursing home near the fertilizer plant. She's in the hospital now. Thankfully her injuries aren't serious. She described the shockwave as obliterating everything it hit.
I've never been to the heart of West, but I've passed through it a few times, and I've visited the Czech stop a lot. I hope they're able to recover.
0
PharezonStruggle is an illusion.Victory is in the Qun.Registered Userregular
In the wake of the deadly explosion at a Texas fertilizer plant, reporter Mike Elk of In These Times magazine joins us to discuss the plant’s safety record and the troubling regulatory environment for workplaces in Texas and nationwide. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration has not inspected West Fertilizer Co. in five years, and the EPA fined the plant in 2006 for failing to have a risk management plan. Elk says OSHA is understaffed and underfunded nationwide, across all industries.
"OSHA has not inspected this plant in at least five years," notes reporter Mike Elk. "And that’s not uncommon. This is a non-union facility. The way OSHA typically works, and as well as EPA, is that they get a call from a worker, and then inspectors show up, and they inspect the plant, and they find problems. When you have a non-union workforce, like you have in this plant, that’s a lot less likely, since many folks are scared of losing their jobs."
0
HunterChemist with a heart of AuRegistered Userregular
He may not have known it was a fertilizer plant. Just saw a fire and and thought, "hey, crazy. I should film this with my phone." I doubt he heard about the fire, grabbed his daughter, and drove over.
There's also many potential industrial hazards that the average person isn't aware of, so even if someone knows it's a fertilizer plant they may well not understand why it's a major hazard during a fire.
For instance, that fertilizer chemicals can be so combustible. It's not uncommon knowledge, but it's not as well known as say, an oil refinery being on fire
Are there seriously people who don't know that fertilizer is combustible?
Like you know...a Uhaul filled with fertilizer and kerosene used as a bomb that blows up a federal building in Oklahoma.
Ammonia nitrate is a powerful oxidizer. It doesn't go boom per say...it's more like a buddy that when teamed up with his pal the hydrocarbon, they hit the town and go BBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!
In the wake of the deadly explosion at a Texas fertilizer plant, reporter Mike Elk of In These Times magazine joins us to discuss the plant’s safety record and the troubling regulatory environment for workplaces in Texas and nationwide. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration has not inspected West Fertilizer Co. in five years, and the EPA fined the plant in 2006 for failing to have a risk management plan. Elk says OSHA is understaffed and underfunded nationwide, across all industries.
"OSHA has not inspected this plant in at least five years," notes reporter Mike Elk. "And that’s not uncommon. This is a non-union facility. The way OSHA typically works, and as well as EPA, is that they get a call from a worker, and then inspectors show up, and they inspect the plant, and they find problems. When you have a non-union workforce, like you have in this plant, that’s a lot less likely, since many folks are scared of losing their jobs."
Why don't we have mandatory inspections every other year or so? Why on Earth would you make that voluntary?
He may not have known it was a fertilizer plant. Just saw a fire and and thought, "hey, crazy. I should film this with my phone." I doubt he heard about the fire, grabbed his daughter, and drove over.
There's also many potential industrial hazards that the average person isn't aware of, so even if someone knows it's a fertilizer plant they may well not understand why it's a major hazard during a fire.
For instance, that fertilizer chemicals can be so combustible. It's not uncommon knowledge, but it's not as well known as say, an oil refinery being on fire
Are there seriously people who don't know that fertilizer is combustible?
Like you know...a Uhaul filled with fertilizer and kerosene used as a bomb that blows up a federal building in Oklahoma.
Ammonia nitrate is a powerful oxidizer. It doesn't go boom per say...it's more like a buddy that when teamed up with his pal the hydrocarbon, they hit the town and go BBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!
I think you'd be amazed how little time the average person spends thinking about how to build explosives in his/her garage.
I mean, average Joe thinks about fertilizer two times a year, and then it's just stuff he puts on his lawn so it grows a little better. He's not thinking about what goes into it, or what else it could do. It's just a tool for him. He doesn't think about the fact that he could cave in a skull or two with his favorite ball peen hammer very often either.
+3
PharezonStruggle is an illusion.Victory is in the Qun.Registered Userregular
In the wake of the deadly explosion at a Texas fertilizer plant, reporter Mike Elk of In These Times magazine joins us to discuss the plant’s safety record and the troubling regulatory environment for workplaces in Texas and nationwide. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration has not inspected West Fertilizer Co. in five years, and the EPA fined the plant in 2006 for failing to have a risk management plan. Elk says OSHA is understaffed and underfunded nationwide, across all industries.
"OSHA has not inspected this plant in at least five years," notes reporter Mike Elk. "And that’s not uncommon. This is a non-union facility. The way OSHA typically works, and as well as EPA, is that they get a call from a worker, and then inspectors show up, and they inspect the plant, and they find problems. When you have a non-union workforce, like you have in this plant, that’s a lot less likely, since many folks are scared of losing their jobs."
Why don't we have mandatory inspections every other year or so? Why on Earth would you make that voluntary?
Because businesses complain about and delay such inspections.
+1
Binary SquidWe all make choicesRegistered Userregular
I think you'd be amazed how little time the average person spends thinking about how to build explosives in his/her garage.
I mean, average Joe thinks about fertilizer two times a year, and then it's just stuff he puts on his lawn so it grows a little better. He's not thinking about what goes into it, or what else it could do. It's just a tool for him. He doesn't think about the fact that he could cave in a skull or two with his favorite ball peen hammer very often either.
I'd watch this Joe and his hammers. It's always the quiet ones...
I shouldn't joke about Joe. He actually is a great guy but he doesn't really stand out as unique.[/spoilers]
In the wake of the deadly explosion at a Texas fertilizer plant, reporter Mike Elk of In These Times magazine joins us to discuss the plant’s safety record and the troubling regulatory environment for workplaces in Texas and nationwide. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration has not inspected West Fertilizer Co. in five years, and the EPA fined the plant in 2006 for failing to have a risk management plan. Elk says OSHA is understaffed and underfunded nationwide, across all industries.
"OSHA has not inspected this plant in at least five years," notes reporter Mike Elk. "And that’s not uncommon. This is a non-union facility. The way OSHA typically works, and as well as EPA, is that they get a call from a worker, and then inspectors show up, and they inspect the plant, and they find problems. When you have a non-union workforce, like you have in this plant, that’s a lot less likely, since many folks are scared of losing their jobs."
Why don't we have mandatory inspections every other year or so? Why on Earth would you make that voluntary?
Because businesses complain about and delay such inspections.
and some taxpayers complain that tax dollars are being used on "useless inspections"
In the wake of the deadly explosion at a Texas fertilizer plant, reporter Mike Elk of In These Times magazine joins us to discuss the plant’s safety record and the troubling regulatory environment for workplaces in Texas and nationwide. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration has not inspected West Fertilizer Co. in five years, and the EPA fined the plant in 2006 for failing to have a risk management plan. Elk says OSHA is understaffed and underfunded nationwide, across all industries.
"OSHA has not inspected this plant in at least five years," notes reporter Mike Elk. "And that’s not uncommon. This is a non-union facility. The way OSHA typically works, and as well as EPA, is that they get a call from a worker, and then inspectors show up, and they inspect the plant, and they find problems. When you have a non-union workforce, like you have in this plant, that’s a lot less likely, since many folks are scared of losing their jobs."
Why don't we have mandatory inspections every other year or so? Why on Earth would you make that voluntary?
Phare's answer hits on part of the problem. But like Elk says, OSHA is understaffed. Who's going to pay for a significant expansion of OSHA? Sure, it seems obvious that we should have increased funding for OSHA after a disaster like this, but that's in hindsight and to some extent, a kneejerk reaction. I'm not saying there shouldn't be significantly more OSHA inspectors, I'm simply recognizing that during an extended recession when many government agencies have been seeing significant budget cuts due to tax shortfalls, it's a hard sell to make. It's easy to shout for more policemen or firemen or OSHA inspectors until you're asked to vote for a tax increase to fund it.
Are there seriously people who don't know that fertilizer is combustible?
Like you know...a Uhaul filled with fertilizer and kerosene used as a bomb that blows up a federal building in Oklahoma.
Ammonia nitrate is a powerful oxidizer. It doesn't go boom per say...it's more like a buddy that when teamed up with his pal the hydrocarbon, they hit the town and go BBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!
OKC was ANNM, not AN-kerosene (which I'm not even sure if you can use, ANFO is more common and uses diesel fuel), plus tovex and basically whatever else was handy
not that the general public pays much attention to the specific construction of a bomb. Try calling your mom and asking what kind of bomb McVeigh built
0
HunterChemist with a heart of AuRegistered Userregular
He may not have known it was a fertilizer plant. Just saw a fire and and thought, "hey, crazy. I should film this with my phone." I doubt he heard about the fire, grabbed his daughter, and drove over.
There's also many potential industrial hazards that the average person isn't aware of, so even if someone knows it's a fertilizer plant they may well not understand why it's a major hazard during a fire.
For instance, that fertilizer chemicals can be so combustible. It's not uncommon knowledge, but it's not as well known as say, an oil refinery being on fire
Are there seriously people who don't know that fertilizer is combustible?
Like you know...a Uhaul filled with fertilizer and kerosene used as a bomb that blows up a federal building in Oklahoma.
Ammonia nitrate is a powerful oxidizer. It doesn't go boom per say...it's more like a buddy that when teamed up with his pal the hydrocarbon, they hit the town and go BBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!
I think you'd be amazed how little time the average person spends thinking about how to build explosives in his/her garage.
I mean, average Joe thinks about fertilizer two times a year, and then it's just stuff he puts on his lawn so it grows a little better. He's not thinking about what goes into it, or what else it could do. It's just a tool for him. He doesn't think about the fact that he could cave in a skull or two with his favorite ball peen hammer very often either.
I'm pretty sure most average folk remember the Oklahoma City bombing when the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building was blow up with a Ryder truck full of fertilizer and model plane/car fuel. Pretty big story.
It was the largest act of terrorism on US soil pre-9/11. Still is probably the worst terrorist attack by home grown domestic whack jobs in this country.
This happened in 1995...it's modern history. People should know this. Names like Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols should ring a bell.
Are there seriously people who don't know that fertilizer is combustible?
Like you know...a Uhaul filled with fertilizer and kerosene used as a bomb that blows up a federal building in Oklahoma.
Ammonia nitrate is a powerful oxidizer. It doesn't go boom per say...it's more like a buddy that when teamed up with his pal the hydrocarbon, they hit the town and go BBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!
OKC was ANNM, not AN-kerosene (which I'm not even sure if you can use, ANFO is more common and uses diesel fuel), plus tovex and basically whatever else was handy
not that the general public pays much attention to the specific construction of a bomb. Try calling your mom and asking what kind of bomb McVeigh built
Actually it was ammonium nitrate fertilizer, nitromethane fuel, and some Tovex seismic explosive. with some ANFO tossed in.
Apparently he wanted to use rocket fuel...like really.
He may not have known it was a fertilizer plant. Just saw a fire and and thought, "hey, crazy. I should film this with my phone." I doubt he heard about the fire, grabbed his daughter, and drove over.
There's also many potential industrial hazards that the average person isn't aware of, so even if someone knows it's a fertilizer plant they may well not understand why it's a major hazard during a fire.
For instance, that fertilizer chemicals can be so combustible. It's not uncommon knowledge, but it's not as well known as say, an oil refinery being on fire
Are there seriously people who don't know that fertilizer is combustible?
Like you know...a Uhaul filled with fertilizer and kerosene used as a bomb that blows up a federal building in Oklahoma.
Ammonia nitrate is a powerful oxidizer. It doesn't go boom per say...it's more like a buddy that when teamed up with his pal the hydrocarbon, they hit the town and go BBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!
I think you'd be amazed how little time the average person spends thinking about how to build explosives in his/her garage.
I mean, average Joe thinks about fertilizer two times a year, and then it's just stuff he puts on his lawn so it grows a little better. He's not thinking about what goes into it, or what else it could do. It's just a tool for him. He doesn't think about the fact that he could cave in a skull or two with his favorite ball peen hammer very often either.
I'm not surprised that people don't realize that fertilizer is a terrifying fuel for an explosion. Many times today I've had to say to different people who were incredulous about how big it was "you remember the Oklahoma City Bombing? That was a Uhaul truck of the stuff. This was a giant storage tank's worth."
Just like how people are surprised when they hear about grain silos exploding: its just not a substance you think about when the word 'explosion' comes into play.
He may not have known it was a fertilizer plant. Just saw a fire and and thought, "hey, crazy. I should film this with my phone." I doubt he heard about the fire, grabbed his daughter, and drove over.
There's also many potential industrial hazards that the average person isn't aware of, so even if someone knows it's a fertilizer plant they may well not understand why it's a major hazard during a fire.
For instance, that fertilizer chemicals can be so combustible. It's not uncommon knowledge, but it's not as well known as say, an oil refinery being on fire
Are there seriously people who don't know that fertilizer is combustible?
Like you know...a Uhaul filled with fertilizer and kerosene used as a bomb that blows up a federal building in Oklahoma.
Ammonia nitrate is a powerful oxidizer. It doesn't go boom per say...it's more like a buddy that when teamed up with his pal the hydrocarbon, they hit the town and go BBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!
I think you'd be amazed how little time the average person spends thinking about how to build explosives in his/her garage.
I mean, average Joe thinks about fertilizer two times a year, and then it's just stuff he puts on his lawn so it grows a little better. He's not thinking about what goes into it, or what else it could do. It's just a tool for him. He doesn't think about the fact that he could cave in a skull or two with his favorite ball peen hammer very often either.
I'm not surprised that people don't realize that fertilizer is a terrifying fuel for an explosion. Many times today I've had to say to different people who were incredulous about how big it was "you remember the Oklahoma City Bombing? That was a Uhaul truck of the stuff. This was a giant storage tank's worth."
Just like how people are surprised when they hear about grain silos exploding: its just not a substance you think about when the word 'explosion' comes into play.
Mills that make fine grade white flour are fucking dangerous as hell, and explode more often then one would think.
Fine mesh particles suspended in air are nothing to fuck with.
Those poor, brave bastards fighting that fire my heart is breaking for them and their loved ones. Each and every one is a goddamn hero
I also don't want to downplay the tradgedy of those poor people who have been injured or killed just for living/being near the plant of course and I want to make that clear as well
He may not have known it was a fertilizer plant. Just saw a fire and and thought, "hey, crazy. I should film this with my phone." I doubt he heard about the fire, grabbed his daughter, and drove over.
There's also many potential industrial hazards that the average person isn't aware of, so even if someone knows it's a fertilizer plant they may well not understand why it's a major hazard during a fire.
For instance, that fertilizer chemicals can be so combustible. It's not uncommon knowledge, but it's not as well known as say, an oil refinery being on fire
Are there seriously people who don't know that fertilizer is combustible?
Like you know...a Uhaul filled with fertilizer and kerosene used as a bomb that blows up a federal building in Oklahoma.
Ammonia nitrate is a powerful oxidizer. It doesn't go boom per say...it's more like a buddy that when teamed up with his pal the hydrocarbon, they hit the town and go BBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!
I think you'd be amazed how little time the average person spends thinking about how to build explosives in his/her garage.
I mean, average Joe thinks about fertilizer two times a year, and then it's just stuff he puts on his lawn so it grows a little better. He's not thinking about what goes into it, or what else it could do. It's just a tool for him. He doesn't think about the fact that he could cave in a skull or two with his favorite ball peen hammer very often either.
I'm pretty sure most average folk remember the Oklahoma City bombing when the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building was blow up with a Ryder truck full of fertilizer and model plane/car fuel. Pretty big story.
It was the largest act of terrorism on US soil pre-9/11. Still is probably the worst terrorist attack by home grown domestic whack jobs in this country.
This happened in 1995...it's modern history. People should know this. Names like Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols should ring a bell.
Just a reminder that there are adult Americans of sound mind who don't know who Saddam Hussein was, so.
Would an OSHA inspection even help? I thought they were looking at workplace safety, like making sure people were wearing the proper protective gear and there were extinguishers and emergency showers and such in the proper places.
Do they actually go through and assess the state of machinery as well? Make sure everything's being maintained?
Because that's more likely to be the culprit for a massive fire than whether or not workers are getting enough breaks during the day.
Would an OSHA inspection even help? I thought they were looking at workplace safety, like making sure people were wearing the proper protective gear and there were extinguishers and emergency showers and such in the proper places.
Do they actually go through and assess the state of machinery as well? Make sure everything's being maintained?
Because that's more likely to be the culprit for a massive fire than whether or not workers are getting enough breaks during the day.
OSHA does more then make sure you are wearing safety glasses and steel tipped shoes where it's necessary.
For example, if a conveyor belt, bucket elevator, or screw feeder was dumping material and leaving large piles of potentially hazardous material on the floor where someone may accidentally ignite it, an OSHA inspection should/would catch that shit.
In the wake of the deadly explosion at a Texas fertilizer plant, reporter Mike Elk of In These Times magazine joins us to discuss the plant’s safety record and the troubling regulatory environment for workplaces in Texas and nationwide. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration has not inspected West Fertilizer Co. in five years, and the EPA fined the plant in 2006 for failing to have a risk management plan. Elk says OSHA is understaffed and underfunded nationwide, across all industries.
"OSHA has not inspected this plant in at least five years," notes reporter Mike Elk. "And that’s not uncommon. This is a non-union facility. The way OSHA typically works, and as well as EPA, is that they get a call from a worker, and then inspectors show up, and they inspect the plant, and they find problems. When you have a non-union workforce, like you have in this plant, that’s a lot less likely, since many folks are scared of losing their jobs."
Why don't we have mandatory inspections every other year or so? Why on Earth would you make that voluntary?
Phare's answer hits on part of the problem. But like Elk says, OSHA is understaffed. Who's going to pay for a significant expansion of OSHA? Sure, it seems obvious that we should have increased funding for OSHA after a disaster like this, but that's in hindsight and to some extent, a kneejerk reaction. I'm not saying there shouldn't be significantly more OSHA inspectors, I'm simply recognizing that during an extended recession when many government agencies have been seeing significant budget cuts due to tax shortfalls, it's a hard sell to make. It's easy to shout for more policemen or firemen or OSHA inspectors until you're asked to vote for a tax increase to fund it.
Well, then there's also the lobbying done by business to make sure OSHA is underfunded and can't do their job properly.
+1
HunterChemist with a heart of AuRegistered Userregular
edited April 2013
There's always OSHA's meaner, tougher, big brother MSHA that has made me go though hundreds of hours of safety training just to be able to step foot on one of our large processing and mining sites.
Would an OSHA inspection even help? I thought they were looking at workplace safety, like making sure people were wearing the proper protective gear and there were extinguishers and emergency showers and such in the proper places.
Do they actually go through and assess the state of machinery as well? Make sure everything's being maintained?
Because that's more likely to be the culprit for a massive fire than whether or not workers are getting enough breaks during the day.
OSHA does more then make sure you are wearing safety glasses and steel tipped shoes where it's necessary.
For example, if a conveyor belt, bucket elevator, or screw feeder was dumping material and leaving large piles of potentially hazardous material on the floor where someone may accidentally ignite it, an OSHA inspection should/would catch that shit.
Cool, I just wasn't sure how in depth they get with safety beyond the commonplace hazards. My only experience in an industrial plant/factory was an internship, and I was in the front office doing software development.
there is a report of a shooting at MIT now, so far the report states that an officer has been shot and the area is still considered active and dangerous and people shouldn't go near the campus.
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Dude. All the hugs, for your family and friends and everyone.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
The town isn't funded only by the fertilizer plant, though that is a big source of income. It's your average small town, with various homegrown businesses and Mom and Pop shops and local restaurants and whatnot. It's also the Kolache capital of the world, so the bakery business alone in that town is very lucrative. It is, though, at its heart a farming community and in addition to fertilizer that plant handled grain, feed and various farming equipment.
Most of the people there are either self-sufficient or they work in the larger towns surrounding it. The hardest part isn't going to be replacing the fertilizer business, it's going to be the various business owners repairing and reopening their shops or businesses and the people whose homes were leveled recovering from that. And, of course, the people who lost loved ones.
Steam Profile | Signature art by Alexandra 'Lexxy' Douglass
The mayor of West reports the death toll is now up to 35.
Just an unbelievable tragedy.
p sure if something happened in Helotes they'd say San Antonio
I've never been to the heart of West, but I've passed through it a few times, and I've visited the Czech stop a lot. I hope they're able to recover.
Are there seriously people who don't know that fertilizer is combustible?
Like you know...a Uhaul filled with fertilizer and kerosene used as a bomb that blows up a federal building in Oklahoma.
Ammonia nitrate is a powerful oxidizer. It doesn't go boom per say...it's more like a buddy that when teamed up with his pal the hydrocarbon, they hit the town and go BBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
Why don't we have mandatory inspections every other year or so? Why on Earth would you make that voluntary?
I mean, average Joe thinks about fertilizer two times a year, and then it's just stuff he puts on his lawn so it grows a little better. He's not thinking about what goes into it, or what else it could do. It's just a tool for him. He doesn't think about the fact that he could cave in a skull or two with his favorite ball peen hammer very often either.
Because businesses complain about and delay such inspections.
I'd watch this Joe and his hammers. It's always the quiet ones...
and some taxpayers complain that tax dollars are being used on "useless inspections"
steam | Dokkan: 868846562
Phare's answer hits on part of the problem. But like Elk says, OSHA is understaffed. Who's going to pay for a significant expansion of OSHA? Sure, it seems obvious that we should have increased funding for OSHA after a disaster like this, but that's in hindsight and to some extent, a kneejerk reaction. I'm not saying there shouldn't be significantly more OSHA inspectors, I'm simply recognizing that during an extended recession when many government agencies have been seeing significant budget cuts due to tax shortfalls, it's a hard sell to make. It's easy to shout for more policemen or firemen or OSHA inspectors until you're asked to vote for a tax increase to fund it.
OKC was ANNM, not AN-kerosene (which I'm not even sure if you can use, ANFO is more common and uses diesel fuel), plus tovex and basically whatever else was handy
not that the general public pays much attention to the specific construction of a bomb. Try calling your mom and asking what kind of bomb McVeigh built
I'm pretty sure most average folk remember the Oklahoma City bombing when the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building was blow up with a Ryder truck full of fertilizer and model plane/car fuel. Pretty big story.
It was the largest act of terrorism on US soil pre-9/11. Still is probably the worst terrorist attack by home grown domestic whack jobs in this country.
This happened in 1995...it's modern history. People should know this. Names like Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols should ring a bell.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
Actually it was ammonium nitrate fertilizer, nitromethane fuel, and some Tovex seismic explosive. with some ANFO tossed in.
Apparently he wanted to use rocket fuel...like really.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
I'm not surprised that people don't realize that fertilizer is a terrifying fuel for an explosion. Many times today I've had to say to different people who were incredulous about how big it was "you remember the Oklahoma City Bombing? That was a Uhaul truck of the stuff. This was a giant storage tank's worth."
Just like how people are surprised when they hear about grain silos exploding: its just not a substance you think about when the word 'explosion' comes into play.
Steam ID XBL: JohnnyChopsocky PSN:Stud_Beefpile WiiU:JohnnyChopsocky
Mills that make fine grade white flour are fucking dangerous as hell, and explode more often then one would think.
Fine mesh particles suspended in air are nothing to fuck with.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
I also don't want to downplay the tradgedy of those poor people who have been injured or killed just for living/being near the plant of course and I want to make that clear as well
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
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Just a reminder that there are adult Americans of sound mind who don't know who Saddam Hussein was, so.
Do they actually go through and assess the state of machinery as well? Make sure everything's being maintained?
Because that's more likely to be the culprit for a massive fire than whether or not workers are getting enough breaks during the day.
OSHA does more then make sure you are wearing safety glasses and steel tipped shoes where it's necessary.
For example, if a conveyor belt, bucket elevator, or screw feeder was dumping material and leaving large piles of potentially hazardous material on the floor where someone may accidentally ignite it, an OSHA inspection should/would catch that shit.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
Well, then there's also the lobbying done by business to make sure OSHA is underfunded and can't do their job properly.
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
I don't know what make of gun was used to shoot JFK either.
But you know that bullets were involved
Secret Satan 2013 Wishlist
just got back home from an insane work day and a 2 hour drive in the snow. title changed.
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Cool, I just wasn't sure how in depth they get with safety beyond the commonplace hazards. My only experience in an industrial plant/factory was an internship, and I was in the front office doing software development.
Well sure, that's what they say. But I've heard some pretty convincing arguments that say otherwise.
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I think I heard 1962 on the radio this afternoon.
there is a report of a shooting at MIT now, so far the report states that an officer has been shot and the area is still considered active and dangerous and people shouldn't go near the campus.
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