The [Ultimate Marvel] thread

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  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Miles Morales: Ultimate Spider-Man #2
    NO MILES DON'T TELLLLLL HEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

    Hey, to be fair to Miles...
    He lasted longer than Peter did. Ultimate Peter told MJ that he was Spider-Man in issue 7 or 8. Miles made it through 6 issues after the time jump, 3 issues of his Cataclysm tie in, the 5 issues of the main Cataclysm series, and now 2 issues of the restart. That's twice as long as Peter managed.
    I just wish the writers didn't feel compelled to hit every beat of the previous Spider-Man stories. His girlfriend doesn't have to know! Maybe they could explore how much of a strain it puts on their relationship given that 1. he only got his powers recently and 2. they're children!

    You mean like 616 Spider-Man did for like 20 years?

    You are probably making a great point but I don't know the character's history going back that far so I can't intelligently comment on that.

    Having said that:
    Maybe it's an issue with me of having already seen Ultimate Peter Parker tell MJ so quickly and how fast that turned in to a shit storm for both of them. It just feels too familiar and done. I view the Ultimate universe as a place where they can do different things with similar characters and with this move it looks like they are doing the same thing with new characters that they did with old characters in the same universe.

    Clearly we won't know what's going to happen until next month but I hope Katie's reaction severely deviates from MJ's reaction.

    Continuing the thread with how really old 616 Spidey goes in line with current Miles Spidey...
    616 Peter's first two love interests (Betty Bryant and Gwen Stacey) did not know Peter was Spider-Man. He kept it a secret from them, and it ended up causing all kinds of issues. Its also why his telling MJ almost right away was a refreshing change of pace. If Miles keeps it a secret, then he's going to have 616 Peter issues. If he tells her, he's going to have Ultimate Peter issues. In either case, there will be issues that a version of Peter Parker can relate to.

    Personally, I think Miles should tell her because it adds more drama to the story.

    Thanks for the clarification - makes sense when you put it that way.

    No problem. I think, with Miles situation, the question for the reader is...
    if he doesn't tell her, you get stories about how Kate thinks Miles is a bad boyfriend because he's constantly disappearing, missing dates, or talking to other people about things in vague terms that she doesn't know about. If he does tell her, then you get stories dealing with how she deals with the fact that Miles is this self-sacrificing person who is putting his life on the line for other people. I think the latter makes for more interesting stories then the former, so I hope Miles does tell her.

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  • Evil_ReaverEvil_Reaver Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Miles Morales: Ultimate Spider-Man #2
    NO MILES DON'T TELLLLLL HEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

    Hey, to be fair to Miles...
    He lasted longer than Peter did. Ultimate Peter told MJ that he was Spider-Man in issue 7 or 8. Miles made it through 6 issues after the time jump, 3 issues of his Cataclysm tie in, the 5 issues of the main Cataclysm series, and now 2 issues of the restart. That's twice as long as Peter managed.
    I just wish the writers didn't feel compelled to hit every beat of the previous Spider-Man stories. His girlfriend doesn't have to know! Maybe they could explore how much of a strain it puts on their relationship given that 1. he only got his powers recently and 2. they're children!

    You mean like 616 Spider-Man did for like 20 years?

    You are probably making a great point but I don't know the character's history going back that far so I can't intelligently comment on that.

    Having said that:
    Maybe it's an issue with me of having already seen Ultimate Peter Parker tell MJ so quickly and how fast that turned in to a shit storm for both of them. It just feels too familiar and done. I view the Ultimate universe as a place where they can do different things with similar characters and with this move it looks like they are doing the same thing with new characters that they did with old characters in the same universe.

    Clearly we won't know what's going to happen until next month but I hope Katie's reaction severely deviates from MJ's reaction.

    Continuing the thread with how really old 616 Spidey goes in line with current Miles Spidey...
    616 Peter's first two love interests (Betty Bryant and Gwen Stacey) did not know Peter was Spider-Man. He kept it a secret from them, and it ended up causing all kinds of issues. Its also why his telling MJ almost right away was a refreshing change of pace. If Miles keeps it a secret, then he's going to have 616 Peter issues. If he tells her, he's going to have Ultimate Peter issues. In either case, there will be issues that a version of Peter Parker can relate to.

    Personally, I think Miles should tell her because it adds more drama to the story.

    Thanks for the clarification - makes sense when you put it that way.

    No problem. I think, with Miles situation, the question for the reader is...
    if he doesn't tell her, you get stories about how Kate thinks Miles is a bad boyfriend because he's constantly disappearing, missing dates, or talking to other people about things in vague terms that she doesn't know about. If he does tell her, then you get stories dealing with how she deals with the fact that Miles is this self-sacrificing person who is putting his life on the line for other people. I think the latter makes for more interesting stories then the former, so I hope Miles does tell her.

    What about a third option where
    He does tell her and she absolutely wants to have nothing to do with it. She breaks up with him on the spot and now he has to worry about his secret not being safe with his teenage ex-girlfriend.

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  • AspectVoidAspectVoid Registered User regular
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    AspectVoid wrote: »
    Miles Morales: Ultimate Spider-Man #2
    NO MILES DON'T TELLLLLL HEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

    Hey, to be fair to Miles...
    He lasted longer than Peter did. Ultimate Peter told MJ that he was Spider-Man in issue 7 or 8. Miles made it through 6 issues after the time jump, 3 issues of his Cataclysm tie in, the 5 issues of the main Cataclysm series, and now 2 issues of the restart. That's twice as long as Peter managed.
    I just wish the writers didn't feel compelled to hit every beat of the previous Spider-Man stories. His girlfriend doesn't have to know! Maybe they could explore how much of a strain it puts on their relationship given that 1. he only got his powers recently and 2. they're children!

    You mean like 616 Spider-Man did for like 20 years?

    You are probably making a great point but I don't know the character's history going back that far so I can't intelligently comment on that.

    Having said that:
    Maybe it's an issue with me of having already seen Ultimate Peter Parker tell MJ so quickly and how fast that turned in to a shit storm for both of them. It just feels too familiar and done. I view the Ultimate universe as a place where they can do different things with similar characters and with this move it looks like they are doing the same thing with new characters that they did with old characters in the same universe.

    Clearly we won't know what's going to happen until next month but I hope Katie's reaction severely deviates from MJ's reaction.

    Continuing the thread with how really old 616 Spidey goes in line with current Miles Spidey...
    616 Peter's first two love interests (Betty Bryant and Gwen Stacey) did not know Peter was Spider-Man. He kept it a secret from them, and it ended up causing all kinds of issues. Its also why his telling MJ almost right away was a refreshing change of pace. If Miles keeps it a secret, then he's going to have 616 Peter issues. If he tells her, he's going to have Ultimate Peter issues. In either case, there will be issues that a version of Peter Parker can relate to.

    Personally, I think Miles should tell her because it adds more drama to the story.

    Thanks for the clarification - makes sense when you put it that way.

    No problem. I think, with Miles situation, the question for the reader is...
    if he doesn't tell her, you get stories about how Kate thinks Miles is a bad boyfriend because he's constantly disappearing, missing dates, or talking to other people about things in vague terms that she doesn't know about. If he does tell her, then you get stories dealing with how she deals with the fact that Miles is this self-sacrificing person who is putting his life on the line for other people. I think the latter makes for more interesting stories then the former, so I hope Miles does tell her.

    What about a third option where
    He does tell her and she absolutely wants to have nothing to do with it. She breaks up with him on the spot and now he has to worry about his secret not being safe with his teenage ex-girlfriend.

    That seems really out of character for a Bendis written series. It could happen, but I don't see it as likely at this point.

    PSN|AspectVoid
  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    I trust Bendis enough as a writer for him not to hit the same beats he already did in the series that's really his baby.

  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    It would be something new, that's for sure. I've only seen something like that happen in Irredeemable, and it was resolved really quickly.

    H9f4bVe.png
  • FearghaillFearghaill If there is nothing but what we make in this world let us make goodRegistered User regular
    re Miles and secrets
    What needs to be kept in mind is that this isn't MJ, or some random girlfriend. This is Ultimate Kate Bishop, aka Ultimate Lady Hawkguy. Bendis could have had anyone be Miles' girlfriend, but he picked her, and I have to assume it wasn't to have her killed or dump him and be a spiteful ex. She doesn't need to be exactly like 616 Kate, but it would be dumb to have it be her and then piss off her fans.

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  • descdesc the '87 stick up kids Registered User regular
    bros

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    tumblr_n6r72p7h9D1r8ybe2o2_500.jpg

    gwen stacy: spiderwoman one shot

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  • NinjabearNinjabear Registered User regular
    The hood makes it look like a revamped Scarlet Spider costume.

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  • ManetherenWolfManetherenWolf Registered User regular
    that costume design is awesome.

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  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    edited June 2014
    Yeah, I was hoping that was a new 'Silk' costume at first.

    I like the premise too - 'What If that spider had bitten Gwen instead?'

    That said, I do not know how that hood could possibly stay up while swinging at high speed through a city.

    Golden Yak on
    H9f4bVe.png
  • InterpreterInterpreter Registered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Yeah, I was hoping that was a new 'Silk' costume at first.

    I like the premise too - 'What If that spider had bitten Gwen instead?'

    That said, I do not know how that hood could possibly stay up while swinging at high speed through a city.

    Well, in one of those 616 Spidey "Here's how Spider-Man's Powers Work" things that tended to show up in Annuals every so often they said that his entire body can adhere to stuff, not just his hands and feet. So, if they go by that she could be causing the hood to stick to her head while she's webslinging. Either that, or just go with "It's comics. Don't think about it."

    RingoDizzy DGolden Yakvagrant_winds
  • UltimateInfernoUltimateInferno Registered User regular
    STK645262.jpg

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  • Golden YakGolden Yak Burnished Bovine The PIT, level 26Registered User regular
    Golden Yak wrote: »
    Yeah, I was hoping that was a new 'Silk' costume at first.

    I like the premise too - 'What If that spider had bitten Gwen instead?'

    That said, I do not know how that hood could possibly stay up while swinging at high speed through a city.

    Well, in one of those 616 Spidey "Here's how Spider-Man's Powers Work" things that tended to show up in Annuals every so often they said that his entire body can adhere to stuff, not just his hands and feet. So, if they go by that she could be causing the hood to stick to her head while she's webslinging. Either that, or just go with "It's comics. Don't think about it."

    No no, that first bit is good. Plausible application of fantastic powers, I like it.

    But I bet no one can explain how GG's pants can be that big - unless Miles has been shrunk!

    H9f4bVe.png
  • HeatwaveHeatwave Come, now, and walk the path of explosions with me!Registered User regular
    Since when does UGG wear pants anyway? Isn't he usually naked

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  • UltimateInfernoUltimateInferno Registered User regular
    No Ultimate FF in september :(

    "Ride or Die?" asked Goku

    "Ride or Die" confirmed Dominic Toretto, as they took off to find the Dragon Balls in hopes of reviving their friend Sonic
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Looks like all the Ultimate collections are going straight to trade. Cool.

    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • UltimateInfernoUltimateInferno Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Looks like all the Ultimate collections are going straight to trade. Cool.

    it looks to be that way for everything from marvel now.

    "Ride or Die?" asked Goku

    "Ride or Die" confirmed Dominic Toretto, as they took off to find the Dragon Balls in hopes of reviving their friend Sonic
  • AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    I want to like All-New Ultimates, but the whole thing just feels so shoddy and unfocused.

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  • UltimateInfernoUltimateInferno Registered User regular
    "Ride or Die?" asked Goku

    "Ride or Die" confirmed Dominic Toretto, as they took off to find the Dragon Balls in hopes of reviving their friend Sonic
  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    So how long till Ultimate Spider-Man is the only surviving title?

  • UltimateInfernoUltimateInferno Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    So how long till Ultimate Spider-Man is the only surviving title?

    The All New Ultimates guy has always talked about a 12 issue long arc, so probably however long it takes them to get to issue 12 and then it is probably goneso :( .


    "Ride or Die?" asked Goku

    "Ride or Die" confirmed Dominic Toretto, as they took off to find the Dragon Balls in hopes of reviving their friend Sonic
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    Maybe it's just best to have Spider-man as the only ongoing Ultimates title and just do an occasional miniseries here and there?

    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    edited June 2014
    I don't have a problem with other titles, but they need good, solid artists. You can't just throw whoever on these books. Marvel has been.

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  • HadjiQuestHadjiQuest Registered User regular
    Ultimate FF #2 was at about 17k, while All New Ultimates #2 sold 24K, more in line with some struggling but critically beloved All-New Now titles, so it'll probably live to get through its 12 issue arc.

    Ultimate Spidey's #1 hit 45K, so it's probably on track to do the same or slightly better than it was before the relaunch.

    And I was totally going to be done with this line for awhile, but the MotW threads and posts in here got me to add Ultimate Spidey back to my pull. Curses!

  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    I wonder why USM never caught on hugely.

    If it wasn't because Bendis would probably quit if it got cancelled, it probably would have not been given that many chances.

  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Maybe it's just best to have Spider-man as the only ongoing Ultimates title and just do an occasional miniseries here and there?

    Maybe Marvel should stop giving the few ultimate books that exist second string talent.

    Quire.jpg
  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Maybe it's just best to have Spider-man as the only ongoing Ultimates title and just do an occasional miniseries here and there?

    Maybe Marvel should stop giving the few ultimate books that exist second string talent.

    I thought Fialkov was a critically acclaimed writer? Unless you mean the art which I do think was bad like most everyone else.

    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    edited June 2014
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Maybe it's just best to have Spider-man as the only ongoing Ultimates title and just do an occasional miniseries here and there?

    Maybe Marvel should stop giving the few ultimate books that exist second string talent.

    I thought Fialkov was a critically acclaimed writer? Unless you mean the art which I do think was bad like most everyone else.

    I hated his his Ultimate's run before this and only recognize one of the four other titles he's worked on. I guess maybe but he's seemed pretty poor to me.

    Overall the writers since Hickman left have been less then stellar. this is problematic because the universe only has three titles running its banner. It needs someone tight to keep the universe going.

    ANd yeah the art is certainly something.

    nightmarenny on
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  • AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Maybe it's just best to have Spider-man as the only ongoing Ultimates title and just do an occasional miniseries here and there?

    Maybe Marvel should stop giving the few ultimate books that exist second string talent.

    I thought Fialkov was a critically acclaimed writer? Unless you mean the art which I do think was bad like most everyone else.

    I hated his his Ultimate's run before this and only recognize one of the four other titles he's worked on. I guess maybe but he's seemed pretty poor to me.

    Overall the writers since Hickman left have been less then stellar. this is problematic because the universe only has three titles running its banner. It needs someone tight to keep the universe going.

    ANd yeah the art is certainly something.

    I think you could probably do some great work with second string writers and some freedom. They can be competent, but just haven't had their Big 2 chance to shine yet.

    But you have to fix that art.

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  • nightmarennynightmarenny Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Maybe it's just best to have Spider-man as the only ongoing Ultimates title and just do an occasional miniseries here and there?

    Maybe Marvel should stop giving the few ultimate books that exist second string talent.

    I thought Fialkov was a critically acclaimed writer? Unless you mean the art which I do think was bad like most everyone else.

    I hated his his Ultimate's run before this and only recognize one of the four other titles he's worked on. I guess maybe but he's seemed pretty poor to me.

    Overall the writers since Hickman left have been less then stellar. this is problematic because the universe only has three titles running its banner. It needs someone tight to keep the universe going.

    ANd yeah the art is certainly something.

    I think you could probably do some great work with second string writers and some freedom. They can be competent, but just haven't had their Big 2 chance to shine yet.

    But you have to fix that art.

    The problem is that its a chance. These books are all the Ultimate Universe has and they need consistency.

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  • AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    wirehead26 wrote: »
    Maybe it's just best to have Spider-man as the only ongoing Ultimates title and just do an occasional miniseries here and there?

    Maybe Marvel should stop giving the few ultimate books that exist second string talent.

    I thought Fialkov was a critically acclaimed writer? Unless you mean the art which I do think was bad like most everyone else.

    I hated his his Ultimate's run before this and only recognize one of the four other titles he's worked on. I guess maybe but he's seemed pretty poor to me.

    Overall the writers since Hickman left have been less then stellar. this is problematic because the universe only has three titles running its banner. It needs someone tight to keep the universe going.

    ANd yeah the art is certainly something.

    I think you could probably do some great work with second string writers and some freedom. They can be competent, but just haven't had their Big 2 chance to shine yet.

    But you have to fix that art.

    The problem is that its a chance. These books are all the Ultimate Universe has and they need consistency.

    Point taken.

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  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    Fialkov is great and I was really enjoying his Ultimate FF

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  • noir_bloodnoir_blood Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote: »
    I wonder why USM never caught on hugely.

    If it wasn't because Bendis would probably quit if it got cancelled, it probably would have not been given that many chances.

    I remember it being a pretty big deal when it first came out. I think for a while all the Ultimate lines were more popular than their 616 versions.

    Oddly enough, I think that having Bendis as the sole writer kinda hurts it in a way. It's probably the sole Marvel book that can probably be called a single story. Yes, there has been jumping on point here and there, but at the end of the day the book relies on a lot of past events, characters, etc. Compare that to the regular Spidey books, that routinely get rebooted, new writers, new artists, etc. and they can keep the momentum going.

    And as much as it sucks to say, I'm sure there's some people that dropped the title as soon as Peter died.

  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    Ultimate Spider-Man is the best superhero comic book ever made

    UltimateInfernoTransporterSinogue
  • AutomaticzenAutomaticzen Registered User regular
    Keith wrote: »
    Ultimate Spider-Man is the best superhero comic book ever made

    It's been so consistently good that sometimes I forget about it. Don't ask me how that works.

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  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread Registered User regular
    How does that work?

  • TransporterTransporter Registered User regular
    Keith wrote: »
    How does that work?

    It's like, Oxygen man.

    It's so good you need it to live and you sometimes forget that if you didn't have it, you would DIE.

    Yes Ultimate Spiderman is as good as Oxygen.

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  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    Personally, I think what killed the Ultimate universe's viability, was the frequent relaunches.

    I mean, how many Ultimate Spider-Man first issues are floating around? It's at least four, right?

    The Ultimate universe's original strength was that you could pick up one series of TPBs, and get the full story of those characters. You didn't have to figure out if you needed to pick up Amazing Spider-Man #17, Spectacular Spider-Man #39, and the Spider-Man: How I Spent My Summer Vacation Maxi-Series, to get the whole story of Spider-Man.

    All the volumes were conveniently numbered, featured the same trade dress, and were complete. Every now and then, you'd get a series like the Ultimate Galactus trilogy, which stood by itself, and wasn't really required reading.

    At some point, they got away from that, and went to doing Comics As Usual, with a ton of relaunches, universe-shattering events that you had to read, and

    I think the best thing for the Ultimate U would be to shut it down, give it a few years to rest, and then bring it back at a new status quo. Shit, jump the whole thing ahead five years, and show the next wave of mutants at a new school, the Ultimate Future Foundation graduating to join the Fantastic Fourteen, and an older Miles Morales, who's dealing with college, and new, adult responsibilities.

    Relaunch them in a way that's both iconic and new, while sticking with a small number of titles.

    I think the reason that won't happen, is because of Ultimate Spider-Man. Even if Bendis was fully prepared to step away from the title, I don't think you can cancel the much-applauded biracial Spider-Man's book, when it's still selling well.

    Still, when a new Ultimates book is selling less than Ghost Rider, on its second issue, it's time to step back and re-strategize. Let it go away, and let people miss it for a while.

    Ringo
  • PhillisherePhillishere Registered User regular
    Munch wrote: »
    Personally, I think what killed the Ultimate universe's viability, was the frequent relaunches.

    I mean, how many Ultimate Spider-Man first issues are floating around? It's at least four, right?

    The Ultimate universe's original strength was that you could pick up one series of TPBs, and get the full story of those characters. You didn't have to figure out if you needed to pick up Amazing Spider-Man #17, Spectacular Spider-Man #39, and the Spider-Man: How I Spent My Summer Vacation Maxi-Series, to get the whole story of Spider-Man.

    All the volumes were conveniently numbered, featured the same trade dress, and were complete. Every now and then, you'd get a series like the Ultimate Galactus trilogy, which stood by itself, and wasn't really required reading.

    At some point, they got away from that, and went to doing Comics As Usual, with a ton of relaunches, universe-shattering events that you had to read, and

    I think the best thing for the Ultimate U would be to shut it down, give it a few years to rest, and then bring it back at a new status quo. Shit, jump the whole thing ahead five years, and show the next wave of mutants at a new school, the Ultimate Future Foundation graduating to join the Fantastic Fourteen, and an older Miles Morales, who's dealing with college, and new, adult responsibilities.

    Relaunch them in a way that's both iconic and new, while sticking with a small number of titles.

    I think the reason that won't happen, is because of Ultimate Spider-Man. Even if Bendis was fully prepared to step away from the title, I don't think you can cancel the much-applauded biracial Spider-Man's book, when it's still selling well.

    Still, when a new Ultimates book is selling less than Ghost Rider, on its second issue, it's time to step back and re-strategize. Let it go away, and let people miss it for a while.

    I think they should just pare down the books to Ultimate Spider-Man. I'm reading the new Ultimates, which isn't bad, but it mostly makes me realize that I'm not that interested in reading about these characters when Bendis isn't writing them.

  • Undead ScottsmanUndead Scottsman Registered User regular
    The Ultimate U was supposed to be a baggage free set of stories that anyone can jump right into. These days A. It has its own load of baggage, 14 years and three relaunches worth and B. The Marvel U has taken some pretty good strides to become accessible to new reader, especially with the Marvel NOW! initiative.

    I'd honestly be fine if the Ultimate universe just dwindled down to Ultimate Spider-Man, for as long as Bendis is willing to write it.

    I've talked about it before, but I think the best idea would be to make the Ultimate Universe cyclical. Basically reboot it every ten years or so. Put one guy in charge of running the whole she-bang and coordinating the three or four books (thus avoiding the massive tonal discrepancies between, say, the Ultimates and Ultimate Spider-Man) with a master guiding plan and an end in mind. It's okay for stories to have endings, even in comic books! Hell, it doesn't even need be "Ultimate" again.

    Imagine if they let Hickman shepherd and write the main book for a Great Society Universe.

    HadjiQuestvagrant_winds
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