AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
Oh shit, my bad, I thought the Wii chart was the 3DS one, which stopped tracking in January. Looks like the Wii one is hidden behind the others. Stupid yellow.
Post-Christmas slowdown indeed. The 3DS is particularly interesting--really riding that high, but suffering harder accordingly. Sony needs to stop treating their numbers like data from the Manhattan Project.
all of the misguided musings on the last few pages about the launch price of consoles are missing a vital factor: inflation.
Here are some console launch prices very crudely adjusted for inflation. This is in USD and is based on the US launch date.
NES: $432.21
GENESIS: $356.30
SNES: $341.46
Saturn: $627.61
Playstation 1: $470.71
Dreamcast: $279.15
Playstation 2: $405.11
XBox 1: $394.12
Xbox 360: $357.19 / $476.25
PS3: $576.71 / $692.06
Based on Sony's deeply fucked financial situation, I am expecting a minimum $500 price tag for their basic SKU. And I would not be at all surprised by $600. The PS3 premium SKU beat out even the Saturn for inflation adjusted launch price and the company is certainly not in any stronger of a financial situation now.
As for the next xbox, I have no idea. I think $350/$400 is most likely but they have the cash on hand to set the price basically wherever the hell they want and losses be damned.
Yeah, but how does inflation explain why I can buy a laptop for under $500? I'm not sure that inflation really applies to electronic goods that directly.
The question is more about consumer expectations and competition. For instance, I don't think you really want any segment of your customer base thinking I could buy this console or I could buy this iPad. And of course if either Sony's or MS's next gen console is significantly more expensive than the other that's going to be a real, real big problem for them.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
all of the misguided musings on the last few pages about the launch price of consoles are missing a vital factor: inflation.
Here are some console launch prices very crudely adjusted for inflation. This is in USD and is based on the US launch date.
NES: $432.21
GENESIS: $356.30
SNES: $341.46
Saturn: $627.61
Playstation 1: $470.71
Dreamcast: $279.15
Playstation 2: $405.11
XBox 1: $394.12
Xbox 360: $357.19 / $476.25
PS3: $576.71 / $692.06
Based on Sony's deeply fucked financial situation, I am expecting a minimum $500 price tag for their basic SKU. And I would not be at all surprised by $600. The PS3 premium SKU beat out even the Saturn for inflation adjusted launch price and the company is certainly not in any stronger of a financial situation now.
As for the next xbox, I have no idea. I think $350/$400 is most likely but they have the cash on hand to set the price basically wherever the hell they want and losses be damned.
Yeah, but how does inflation explain why I can buy a laptop for under $500? I'm not sure that inflation really applies to electronic goods that directly.
The question is more about consumer expectations and competition. For instance, I don't think you really want any segment of your customer base thinking I could buy this console or I could buy this iPad. And of course if either Sony's or MS's next gen console is significantly more expensive than the other that's going to be a real, real big problem for them.
Inflation is important because it shows that console prices have, barring the PS3, been remarkably stable for successful consoles over the last 25 years.
Yeah, I was about to say that inflation is important in assessing real prices, but price also is the difference between an enthusiast hobby and mainstream entertainment.
Adjusted for inflation, a high-end PCs cost around ten thousand dollars a couple decades ago. If they still had that same real price, some people would still be buying them, but the market would be ridiculously small - so small that it would be hard to justify pursuing them as a platform for doing all the cool stuff that we like our PCs to do today.
Much the same with consoles. People who game as their primary hobby may buy a console at a high real price, but that market is necessarily smaller than those who would purchase at a mass-market price. The question them becomes whether that smaller market can support the full ecosystem we've come to expect from consoles.
500 USD essentially means something like 450 GBP anyway. Which sucks ass. Well, at least we don't have to pay Australian dollars. That thing is going to be like, I don't know, forty thousand Australian dollars.
EB games has the preorder for the PS4 at $900 (AUD).
Philippe about the tactical deployment of german Kradschützen during the battle of Kursk:
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
I don't think the problem is inflationary comparisons I old consoles but with other options in the current market. Sure I remember when a coke was $.50 a can and feel old that they sell for $1.69 in plastic bottles in the grocery store. But if I want a drink and pass up that bottle, it's not because I remember the $.50 days - it's because the generic is right there on the shelf for $1 and it's all sugar water.
There are replacement options for co soles that just weren't there back in the old days especially across entertainment in general. He'll, I'm typing this on a device that fits in my pocket and I could immediately watch a movie or play FFT or YouTube a compilation of a guy getting repeatedly hit in the groin.
JihadJesus on
0
HedgethornAssociate Professor of Historical Hobby HorsesIn the Lions' DenRegistered Userregular
Underpowered with performance and undelivered with software, Nintendo Wii U just cannot become popular. According to recent figures from market analysts, the Wii U remains an underdog on the U.S. market with monthly sales barely crossing the 50 thousand per month milestone. Microsoft Xbox 360 remains the top-selling game system among those available today.
Based on the data from NPD Group, a market tracking company, and Michael Pachter, an analyst with Wedbush Securities, sales of Nintendo Wii U console in April got lower compared to March and February. According to Mr. Pachter, Nintendo sold through 55 thousand of Wii U units in April. Keeping in mind that Microsoft sold only 130 thousand of Xbox 360 – which was the highest amount among all consoles sold in April – actual sales of Wii U could be even lower and Mr. Pachter could seem overoptimistic.
Nintendo Wii U’s market performance suffers because of several factors: its low performance, incoming consoles from major rivals, relatively high price amid lack of games, including those that actually take advantage of Nintendo Wii U’s controller with built-in screen.
As of March 31, the Wii U has sold 3.45 million units since its launch, below Nintendo's initial forecast of 5.5 million, and even January's adjustment to 4 million, reports Joystiq web-site.
The leakers on NeoGaf claimed that WiiU sales in April were around 37,000.
Honestly, I'm hoping that's just EB games (some quick googling doesn't give me any other places in AUS that price the PS4)
How that place stays in business I'll never know.
You'll hate me.
I brought Bioshock infinite day 1 at EB for PS3 on my lunch break. I am part of the problem.
In my defence Whangarei has no other game shops in the main strip.
Philippe about the tactical deployment of german Kradschützen during the battle of Kursk:
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
All their divisions turned a profit last year, except the consumer business division, which basically broke even. Next year it is predicted to turn a profit for the first time in like... damn, almost 20 years. The entire company has been booming since their last major restructuring (the last time they posted a loss -- a loss incurred by the cost of restructuring, in fact).
Sega's stock has hit a 6 and a half year high since the 13th when the full year report came out. Looks like the move to limit the number of AAA titles they publish while also embracing digital distribution is paying off well for Sega. I think this DD embrace is really a smart thing for the company.
For much of the last 6 years, SEGA’s stock price has been known as a “penny stock”, or a stock traded below five dollars a share. In recent months, however, this has begun to change. The stock price has been soaring, finishing on a new fifty-two week high every week, if not every few days. Today, SEGA’s stock price has reached its highest point in six and a half years, closing at exactly $7.
EDIT: On a historical note, I'd like to point out that meteoric rises are par the course for Sega's history. They usually flounder for a generation before really catching fire big. Example: 2D home console - Master System followed by the Genesis. 3D home console - Saturn followed by the Dreamcast. First generation as a 3rd party company, followed by...?
TheSonicRetard on
0
MortiousThe Nightmare BeginsMove to New ZealandRegistered Userregular
The best part? He's making sense. I bolded some things cause it's quite long. Spoilered for length, he was nice enough to do a TLDR, I put it outside the spoiler.
What the Next PlayStation and Xbox Need to Get Right
Skittles or Steak? I hate to admit it, but I like both. For me, it is not a choice. Nothing quite works like a steak for dinner. But, when I go to the movies, and I want to indulge, it’s Skittles for me. It is a bit embarrassing to admit. For me, it’s Skittles and Steak. I like both. You must be wondering what this has to do with games. Or why Kotaku would run my piece on candy and beef. This will take a minute, but let me explain.
I can’t keep track of the number of people who have told me they don’t believe the new consoles, long rumored to be coming from both Microsoft and Sony this fall, will succeed. I’ve heard this from some industry analysts. I’ve heard it from friends. I’ve even heard it from some pretty dedicated gamers.
When I press them, most everyone says they see games on smart phones and tablets taking over the game biz. They see the massive numbers of apps—mostly game apps—being downloaded onto iOS and Android devices and see the demise of console gaming as inevitable. They see the multi-year decline of console software at retail, as reported by NPD, and they think the console gaming is done. They see Apple’s PR machine touting the 50 billion apps downloaded, and they’re even more certain the battle is over and that the future is all about mobile. For them, consoles are over.
Mobile games are awesome. It is a rare day when I don’t play a game on my iPhone or my new Samsung Galaxy S4.
I play them everywhere. At home. In a taxi. On a plane. Sometimes when I am trying to get to a next level, I get up in the middle of the night to play. This may seem unusual, but the numbers speak for themselves. Mobile gaming is exploding globally with no end to the growth in sight. What I notice, though, is that the vast majority of my mobile gaming is done five and ten minutes at a time. Sometimes fifteen. Sometimes, I am watching TV while I am playing. Sometimes I am writing something and need a break for a moment or two (like now). Or, I am eating a burrito. When I am playing a mobile game, it takes some, but not all of my attention.
All the research I have read tells me that my experience with mobile games is very much the norm. We all do it. We do it often, in short sessions. Most of the time, we’re doing something else while we’re playing.
Put down that burrito, because console gaming is very different. I don’t have the fastest thumbs, so playing with any skill at all requires my focus. I am fully engaged. All-in. The room with the biggest TV is the most important entertainment room in my house. And there, console gaming rules. In the room where the entertainment stakes are the highest, console gaming wins. When I am exploring Columbia, or taking down Necromorphs, solving Portal Puzzles, or running as Faith over building tops (OK, so I still love that game), I am all-in. Fully committed. It is a commitment I am happy to make.
Console gaming and mobile gaming. Both are awesome. For me, and I believe hundreds of millions of others, neither is going away anytime soon. Mobile and console scratch different itches. Satisfy a very different hunger. Mobile is here to stay. But, I firmly believe that after eight long years of waiting, we’re all ready for the next generation of consoles to bring us to a new frontier of immersive gaming.
Now, back to Microsoft and Sony.
I believe that console gaming is going to explode on the scene of consumer electronics with this next generation of consoles. Sony and Microsoft absolutely need to deliver new boxes that really impress us. They need to deliver platforms that enable game experiences that are not possible on current consoles. It is not just about graphics, although it is partly about graphics. It is also about recognizing that a lot has changed with online devices and the cloud since the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 were originally introduced.
Our expectations are much, much higher. The next generation of consoles needs to deliver. And, more than anything else, the great developers who create games for these platforms need to wow us with great games and experiences that go well beyond anything we’ve played before.
None of us has seen the future. But based on everything I know and what I have seen, most everything is pretty much in place for all of these things to happen, and to put console gaming front-and-center again. I see 2013 as the year that brings gaming pizzazz back to the living room, where it all really started.
But I do have this nagging fear that it is not too late to snatch defeat from the jaws of probable victory.
I keep asking myself how this might happen, and I come up with a four potential pitfalls that could turn my predicted console victory lap of 2013 into something a bit less grand. Trip on these, and what could be the start of a game console-driven revolution in the living room quickly turns into something that passes with more of a yawn than a cheer.
The first and most obvious of these pitfalls is if Sony or Microsoft forgets who brought them to the dance in the first place. Gamers. I certainly see the temptation to emphasize all sorts of experiences that these boxes might bring to the living room. These new machines can do a lot. The risk is that either or both of the new platforms emphasize these “value-add” experiences too much, both in the user interface on the consoles themselves, or in the story they tell consumers when they unleash their avalanche of advertising. To paraphrase a political slogan, it’s about the games, stupid.
The risk here is real. Both Sony and Microsoft want to be seen as revolutionary companies. To capture that bit of magic that Steve Jobs had running Apple. Reinventing the Living Room sounds so big and sexy. It will read as brilliant in the Wall Street Journal, Vanity Fair, People and The New York Times. But the risk of complexity in the new console UI (User Interface) is real. Give us too much on the screen, and we’ll never find our games.
The risk is that too many choices and a UI design to appeal to too many audiences, means nothing stands out.
Ensure the box delivers awesome game experiences, better than anything we’ve experienced before, and millions of gamers will line up at midnight to buy it. Delivering a box that raises the question of whether we should buy the new console over the $100 Apple TV device or a $60 Roku player will cause too many gamers to wait it out and commit only when the smoke clears.
A second potential pitfall has to do with supply. Consumers today have gotten used to getting what they want, and getting it immediately. We want it now and we want our friends to have it now, so we can play together. The window of time to establish a new world order in consumer electronics is no longer measured in multiple years, as it was in the early 2000’s. Today, it is measured in a year, if not a handful of months.
Past console launches have been severely hampered by a lack of supply. A new console launch with only a few million units available will simply frustrate all of us. Limited supply means the new consoles will launch with a whimper and whine, not the cry of attack. If Sony and Microsoft want to see the next generation of consoles take high ground in the consumer electronics war this year, they are going to have to invest to make sure there are enough of the new consoles out there.
The third issue is price. Last time out, Sony priced their fully-featured PS3 at $599. This made some sense with a launch hampered by a lack of supply. It won’t make sense, either for Sony or Microsoft. Not if they decide to invest in enough supply to really compete for consumer attention in a world used to new hot products from companies like Apple and Samsung selling 5 and 10 million in the first month. Getting the price right is a very important part of the equation. The stakes are enormous.
The fourth issue involves how they handle a few third-rail topics. The question of the always-on connection is one that causes some gamers’ blood to boil. Gamers will want, and learn to love, the good parts of consoles being more connected to our digital lives than was possible with the machines launched eight years ago.
Some gamers fear the new consoles could be more about a DRM-walled garden than about enabling new types of connected gameplay. More about squashing second-sale (used games) than allowing us to play the games we own at our friends houses, in dorms or at home, without having to bring the disk with us. I don’t believe consoles managed as walled-gardens will succeed longer term.
We will want console games that seamlessly connect with our iPhones. Games that change and update in the background while we’re sleeping, to make tomorrow’s gameplay different and far more dynamic than today’s. I believe we’ll all want the ability to bring meaningful achievements in our PC and mobile game to our new consoles, and from our new consoles to our PC and mobile games. It needs to be simple, seamless and without a bunch of headaches with multiple registration, identity and pay gates. The walled garden will fall eventually. At launch, Sony and Microsoft must avoid putting up new and alarming DRM schemes, and focus on enabling the cool new game experiences that seamlessly connected consoles allow.
I am a huge believer that this is the year we put focus back on console gaming in a way it has not been for some years. To put Sony’s and Microsoft’s next consoles in the same frame as Samsung’s and Apple’s hottest products. To do this, I believe they need to do a few things right:
1.They need to make it about games and gamers.
2.They need to invest to make enough consoles and prove they can compete with the supply chain prowess of companies like Apple and Samsung.
3.They need to price sharply to ensure consumers buy what they make.
4.And they need to think open platform more than walled garden.
If they avoid the pitfalls that would keep them from getting all of that right, I am quite sure console gaming will (once again) be the next big thing.
So, if you are still debating whether mobile gaming will kill the next generation of consoles before they ship, my answer is no.
Blendtec on
+11
MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Turns out if you talk sense people respond well to what you're saying.
His comment about the DRM was really interesting, especially because I feel Sim City tried to do what he suggested and failed miserably at convincing gamers otherwise.
So uh that link to this ebgames, had every PS4 game launch title available for pre-order at $118. Every game was $118. That can't be right. I mean, it just can't be.
So uh that like to this ebgames, had every PS4 game launch title available for pre-order at $118. Every game was $118. That can't be right. I mean, it just can't be.
When the PS3 first came out (for $999 I might add) they were charging $110 per game. It's dropped since but EBGames still charges ridiculous prices, everyone I know buys from cheaper places or just from the US/UK for much cheaper. Honestly it would not surprise me if they tried to force a price change. They were the only ones charging $100 for PS2 games and tried to raise by $10, chances are they will try again.
I think EB are hedging their bets. If the price comes out lower, then they have to honor that and take a hit. By over-estimating, they can be sure not to have to worry about it.
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited May 2013
Amazon does this too. They had every Wii U game listed at $100 until official prices were announced. It's a "we have a lowest pre-order price policy and we don't want to lose money" thing.
Also, it is going with the PS4 thing of being an all-in-one box like everybody expected.
Xbox One... sounds like a space shuttle.
They probably figured them darn kids would get "Xbox 720" confused with that there skateboarding pizazz and sue the company every time they tried to "play the 720" and broke a leg.
They are talking about competing for the living room, yadda yadda yadda. I want to know how they plan to do that when the Apple stuff is like a 100 dollars.
They are talking about competing for the living room, yadda yadda yadda. I want to know how they plan to do that when the Apple stuff is like a 100 dollars.
Gotta market to dudebros and parents. Dudebros want consoles, bonus points if it can do other stuff, then they won't be buying a competitor's product. Same thing with parents, their kids want consoles, if it can do stuff they want too, great.
well, that'll be a pretty colossal failure. Same bad reasoning that still expects 10 million sales of games that arent COD
They haven't announced a price yet, but the rumor is there's going to be a much cheaper subscription model that requires two years of xbox gold. Which is a pretty good idea.
Posts
Am I missing something?
I'm missing something
Wii is on that chart
Yeah, but how does inflation explain why I can buy a laptop for under $500? I'm not sure that inflation really applies to electronic goods that directly.
The question is more about consumer expectations and competition. For instance, I don't think you really want any segment of your customer base thinking I could buy this console or I could buy this iPad. And of course if either Sony's or MS's next gen console is significantly more expensive than the other that's going to be a real, real big problem for them.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
Inflation is important because it shows that console prices have, barring the PS3, been remarkably stable for successful consoles over the last 25 years.
Adjusted for inflation, a high-end PCs cost around ten thousand dollars a couple decades ago. If they still had that same real price, some people would still be buying them, but the market would be ridiculously small - so small that it would be hard to justify pursuing them as a platform for doing all the cool stuff that we like our PCs to do today.
Much the same with consoles. People who game as their primary hobby may buy a console at a high real price, but that market is necessarily smaller than those who would purchase at a mass-market price. The question them becomes whether that smaller market can support the full ecosystem we've come to expect from consoles.
EB games has the preorder for the PS4 at $900 (AUD).
Edit: Found a link.
https://ebgames.com.au/featured/playstation-4
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
It means it'll be 1000 NZD
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
Honestly, I'm hoping that's just EB games (some quick googling doesn't give me any other places in AUS that price the PS4)
How that place stays in business I'll never know.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
There are replacement options for co soles that just weren't there back in the old days especially across entertainment in general. He'll, I'm typing this on a device that fits in my pocket and I could immediately watch a movie or play FFT or YouTube a compilation of a guy getting repeatedly hit in the groin.
The leakers on NeoGaf claimed that WiiU sales in April were around 37,000.
You'll hate me.
I brought Bioshock infinite day 1 at EB for PS3 on my lunch break. I am part of the problem.
In my defence Whangarei has no other game shops in the main strip.
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/2013_4q_presen_20130513_final_e.pdf
All their divisions turned a profit last year, except the consumer business division, which basically broke even. Next year it is predicted to turn a profit for the first time in like... damn, almost 20 years. The entire company has been booming since their last major restructuring (the last time they posted a loss -- a loss incurred by the cost of restructuring, in fact).
http://segabits.com/blog/2013/05/14/segas-stock-price-reaches-six-and-a-half-year-high/
Sega's stock has hit a 6 and a half year high since the 13th when the full year report came out. Looks like the move to limit the number of AAA titles they publish while also embracing digital distribution is paying off well for Sega. I think this DD embrace is really a smart thing for the company.
EDIT: On a historical note, I'd like to point out that meteoric rises are par the course for Sega's history. They usually flounder for a generation before really catching fire big. Example: 2D home console - Master System followed by the Genesis. 3D home console - Saturn followed by the Dreamcast. First generation as a 3rd party company, followed by...?
Oh yes, console games.
Didn't register even though the conversation was about consoles :P
I'm a PC person for 90% of my games, which is where they fail between Steam and GMG etc
My PS3 and XBox360 games I buy 2nd hand off TradeMe. Which I'm guessing more often than not originate at EB Games.
It’s not a very important country most of the time
http://steamcommunity.com/id/mortious
The best part? He's making sense. I bolded some things cause it's quite long. Spoilered for length, he was nice enough to do a TLDR, I put it outside the spoiler.
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/192654/Unitys_mobile_licenses_are_now_free.php
His comment about the DRM was really interesting, especially because I feel Sim City tried to do what he suggested and failed miserably at convincing gamers otherwise.
When the PS3 first came out (for $999 I might add) they were charging $110 per game. It's dropped since but EBGames still charges ridiculous prices, everyone I know buys from cheaper places or just from the US/UK for much cheaper. Honestly it would not surprise me if they tried to force a price change. They were the only ones charging $100 for PS2 games and tried to raise by $10, chances are they will try again.
Also, it is going with the PS4 thing of being an all-in-one box like everybody expected.
Xbox One... sounds like a space shuttle.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
How does it feel being the only platform without a one syllable name?
They probably figured them darn kids would get "Xbox 720" confused with that there skateboarding pizazz and sue the company every time they tried to "play the 720" and broke a leg.
Not some how you say X-Box but I'm sure it's hilarious as one syllable.
Waiting for the first gaming site to use that as an article title.
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
Gotta market to dudebros and parents. Dudebros want consoles, bonus points if it can do other stuff, then they won't be buying a competitor's product. Same thing with parents, their kids want consoles, if it can do stuff they want too, great.
well, that'll be a pretty colossal failure. Same bad reasoning that still expects 10 million sales of games that arent COD
They haven't announced a price yet, but the rumor is there's going to be a much cheaper subscription model that requires two years of xbox gold. Which is a pretty good idea.