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[PATV] Monday, April 22, 2013 - CheckPoint Season 2, Ep. 45: Oh Yeah, Ouya
Everyone seems to be flipping out about Earthbound coming to the Virtual Console, but come on. We've had emulators if you really want to play that game on your TV for years now. LttP sequel!
Technically, they ALREADY have a "squeal" to Link to the Past. Google "BS Zelda" (BS being short for BS-X Broadcasting System). Still, kinda awesome that they're doing a follow-up, especially since they finally released the official chronology of the series after years and years.
darkmage0707077 on
The way of the Paladin:
To Seek,
To Learn,
To Do.
-QFG2
If the speed of light is faster then the speed of sound, is that why people always appear bright until they speak? o_O
I think they laid out the problem with the Ouya quite well and they didn't even need to mention how few are going to be out there (under 100K), which is yet another reason why most devs won't support it.
Although I'm sure someone will post saying Android is "open" and that somehow will change things.
While a new phone every 2 years is more powerful then the Ouya, lets look at the cost shall we?
Lets say a contract smartphone is $80/month and a non contract smart phone plan is $50/month. These can go way higher and way lower, but lets use this as a basis. Obviously the contract rate is higher so they can subsidize your phone cost.
Now, you get a new contract phone every 2 years at $100. $80-$50 = $30/month. $30*24months = $720+$100 for the new phone. So we end up with an $820 phone every 2 years, or $410/year. Vs the Ouya's $100/year. Even if you got the phone for free it is still $360/year vs. the Ouya's $100.
I'm not arguing in favor of the Ouya, or against it, just saying that yearly contract cost needed to be taken into account.
"I'm not arguing in favor of the Ouya, or against it, just saying that yearly contract cost needed to be taken into account."
Not when you figure in the fact that you'd be paying that contract regardless, which was her point. We ALREADY HAVE BETTER DEVICES, and pay the cost for those devices accordingly.
As for the HDMI out, there are already other Android devices with such functionality. The only real difference between the Ouya and the cellphone you already have is a dual-analog controller that will see very little use outside of the touchpad it has so that Android developers don't have to actually give their crappy games a real control scheme.
This was one of the best episodes of Checkpoint I've seen in awhile. Between Kathleen's take on OUYA and Graham's Nintendo reactions, I was thoroughly entertained from front to finish.
Is anyone going to get that phone?.....BECAUSE I...CALLED IT!
I'm not going to sit here and say the Ouya Kickstarter was a scam, but I AM going to say that if you want to make a lot of money on Kickstarter, it sure does help to use basically every bit of "anti-corporate" buzzwords that clever people think they're immune to.
@HostileParadox The contract cost doesn't actually need to be taken into account because most people need a smartphone anyway. Regardless of the actual cost of your smartphone, the Ouya would be an addition, not an alternative, so the net savings for the typical user buying an Ouya would be -$100 (not counting redundant purchases between the Google Play and Ouya stores).
The benchmark results show the OUYA (basically a $50 console bundled with a $50 controller) was faster than the HTC One S, which sells for $450 outside of a contract. Yet people are freaking out that the performance isn't a good value. Honestly, I don't get it.
To Kathleen's point, some people have iOS and don't have Android phones. And playing on your phone is different than using a controller and playing on your TV. And while I will likely be buying next-gen consoles at launch, not everyone has $500 to buy a console at launch.
The OUYA isn't competing against the PS4 for the same consumers. The OUYA is aiming at a niche market, where I think it can be successful. Oddly enough, we see this every new generation where there is a market who can't buy launch consoles because of the high prices, so we see a burst in sales of the old consoles and games for a while.
The problem with the OUYA, is that even for people who don't have an android phone, you can still already emulate the godawful android OS on basically any PC made in the last few years and run any app that your heart desires.
These Ouya rants all seem to miss the point, they assume that anyone actually cares about playing android games on a console. The Ouya will be bought -- almost exclusively -- for two purposes, emulators and XBMC. I have never actually encountered a real person who cares what the app offerings on the Ouya store will be like.
The Ouya is a conveinent emulator box, with nice HD output, and a solid controller -- that alone justifies the $99 pricetag for classic gaming enthusiasts. Why do people keep assuming that it has to be something more than that ?
@dmosinee -- Totally agree that most people will use the Ouya as an XBMC device. The problem is that the Ouya markets itself as console. The problem with it being a console is that I'm not sure what niche it is actually serving. The company won't survive long on the thin console margins. They're looking to monetize the same way Apple and Google make money off their app stores, by taking a cut from the app sales.
@HostileParadox -- As others have pointed out, you're probably already paying for a cell phone, and any Android device you have through your phone plan is likely to be just as good at playing Android games.
@enderandrew -- Again, I'm not sure what niche market this thing is going for. I can already play all the games it has on a phone I already own, and the Ouya's small market share isn't going to encourage people who want to make profitable games to develop them just for the Ouya. I love mobile games, but I'm not sure why "play mobile games on your TV" is a selling point. Most of them are bad and don't even look that great on my phone. Sure, indies can get access to the TV, but a better, larger, more established market for indie devs is Steam, and isn't that probably coming to the TV anyhow?
@Kathleen_LRR - Only 29% of gamers who own consoles today stated that they intended to buy a next-gen console at launch. The other 71% likely aren't dropping $500 on a console. That seems like a nice market to target with a $99 console.
The AAA game market on major consoles is also approaching a bubble. Consumers don't seem to like spending $60 per title, while development budgets keep going through the roof. A console that focuses on free and cheap titles (as well as the cheap barrier to entry) has huge potential. The Wii taught us in the last generation that the best graphics don't always matter. As the indie scene continues to explode, we see more and more gamers focusing on fun gameplay over cutting-edge visuals.
If there was a Steam box for $99, I'd glad take it over the OUYA. But that doesn't exist, and the OUYA does.
I feel like the elephant in the room as that mobile games are, by and large, not great except in the absence of a better option. Nobody's going to actually play Canabalt on a big screen, because it got old after playing it for 10 minutes on our phones 2 years ago, and we have infinitely better options.
We can't play Ouya while on a bus, taking a shit, or waiting for our food at a restaurant. We can only play it at the expense of the consoles we already own, which is absurd. In fact, I think I just found out what you can use the Oyua for: hook it up to a small TV in the bathroom and play it while taking a shit.
T-Mobile and Boost (like many non-US wireless companies) offer plans without a phone subsidy: just search for "bring your own phone". Customers on those plans are not forced to pay continually for a phone, and don't need to upgrade their phones every 2 years just to avoid getting shafted. North American consumers need to change their mindset about smartphones: they're *not* $100, they're $500-$1000, and the cost is hidden in your cell phone subscription; and no, you're not "forced" to pay for a new phone every two years, that's a choice you make by giving your money to Verizon, AT&T, or Sprint. I don't really give a crap about Ouya but I do want a more rational cell phone market in the US, and that can only come when people change their mindset.
@enderandrew -- Ok, removing the need to play next gen titles on an expensive console from the equation, remember that most of us already use our phones or Steam to play free or cheap titles. I don't know why I need to pay $99 for something that's kind of crappy, and only plays kind of crappy games that are already available on another device that I already own?
The OUYA benched faster than the HTC One, and no one said the HTC One is a crappy device that can't run Android games. Calling all Android games crappy is a bit harsh.
Angry Birds works great with a touchscreen. Trying to play GTA 3 on your phone doesn't work that well, even though it is available on Android. I think the key is not assuming that the games you currently play on your phone are precisely what will make up the OUYA market. It is powered by Android, but I assume developers will take advantage of the TV and controller hardware.
PAR has pointed out one of the major problems with current consoles is that they aren't very friendly to indie developers. Again, the ideal solution is a Steam Box, but that likely won't be cheap, and it doesn't exist yet.
OUYA provides the freedom of a Steam Box to developers, and a cheap price point to consumers. I don't know that it will absolutely succeed, but I think a market exists where it could succeed.
@enderandrew -- I LOVE many mobile games, but most of them aren't that great. And the ones that are great won't necessarily work on the big screen.
I think what we're both circling is that what everyone really wants is a Steam box. It's pretty widely known that one is coming at SOME point. So, long term, why develop games JUST for the Ouya? They have to work on Android, going Ouya exclusive means you have a tiny market, and the actual device has average to behind-the-curve processing power, even by mobile standards.
If I have limited time and resources I'll keep doing what I've already been doing. I'll either make my games for Steam or a flash site since I already know how to do that and the market is huge, OR I'll make non-Ouya exclusive mobile games, allowing me a much bigger chance of financial success.
I just want to start by saying that people playing Shadowgun: DeadZone on the Ouya will absolutely dominate their opponents in that game.
People forget something when considering the Ouya: there are a HUGE variety of games available on android that reaches far beyond what you consider a mobile game, and many of which would absolutely thrive on a platform like Ouya (even though they don't work as well on a phone). Shooters like the N.O.V.A. and Shadowgun, Action RPGs like Zenonia and the absurdly-fun multiplayer Legend of Dungeon.
All the games outlets are saying pithy things like "I don't want to play angry birds on my T.V." Guess what? The people who love the idea of the console don't want to play Angry Birds on their T.V. either. They want to play Legend of Dungeon on their T.V. with three friends sitting on their couch. They want to play Samurai Vengeance on their T.V. They want to play all those games that seem like they were designed with a console experience in mind, but were forced to be on android phones because of how hard it is to get a game on XBox Live Arcade.
And they want to play all the games that people start making specifically with the Ouya in mind.
I don't know if the Ouya will live up to its potential, but don't pretend the potential's not there.
My "Steam box" only cost me the political capital necessary to keep my gaming tower next to the TV, but there are wireless solutions that are on par with the cost of an OUYA. If OUYA had been more focused on this technology (wireless A/V + input and an XBMC / Steam Big Screen tie-in), I would have found it infinitely more useful.
What a dumb settlement re: the EA Sports licenses. Whoever signed off on this shit owes the taxpayers a refund for the court's time, since we paid for this ridiculous circlejerk.
Year of Luigi does sound kind of like a threat, like something Nintendo would announce and then say they'll reconsider if the WiiU sells X number of units.
Also,
Badgersbadgersbadgersbadgers...
"Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are." - Bertolt Brecht
@Kathleen_LRR - Only 29% of gamers who own consoles today stated that they intended to buy a next-gen console at launch. The other 71% likely aren't dropping $500 on a console. That seems like a nice market to target with a $99 console.
I know I don't plan on getting either a new XBox or PS4 unless something *really* attractive comes out for either. Got a WiiU and a solid computer, I think I'm good.
(Probably doesn't help that my TV set-up is probably the most gawdawful thing ever, and involves having to lay on a bed to play it. Do not want.)
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
OUYA backer here, and something it feels like I see a lot of people missing some rather big points of (or not coming across like they get said points) the OUYA. in no order: its not supposed to be aiming at the mobile market, so that argument is bunk. Its not going to be limited to stuff on the google store, nor is that model of "android game" the base. hello, its NOT a google box =/. they've got their own store of stuff. and finally, the OUYA....is NOT released yet! people need to put away the knife darts for a bit. review consoles aren't out until another month or so at the least!
It's also worth pointing out that the benchmarking was run on the prototype/devkit, not the final console, which may yet turn out to be significantly higher performing
@McEvil : Incorrect, I did not buy it. I backed it. learn about how kickstarter works. yes I put money towards their project, but that does not mean I at any point had such thoughts as "wow, new console!, gimme!" more like it was "hope this pulls through, it could be amazing"
Incorrect, I did not buy it. I backed it. learn about how kickstarter works. yes I put money towards their project, but that does not mean I at any point had such thoughts as "wow, new console!, gimme!" more like it was "hope this pulls through, it could be amazing"
Now you're just arguing semantics. The Kickstarter is really just a fancy pre-order, so your motives aren't really all that important.
Personally, I hope it does well and it spawns a new form of gaming, but I just don't see it. If it does just become an emulation machine, it'll never stay in business because it must already be operating on razor thin margins.
The idea of selling the device at cost and making it up in the appstore is backwards, as a matter of fact, Apple for the first time ever actually started making a profit from their app store this quarter. They make all their money on the hardware.
@Kathleen_LRR (a little late to the game, I'm behind in my CP viewing) - if people buy Ouya as an XMBC platform, they're clearly overpaying. While it is a bit more of a DIY solution, I have a raspberry pi that runs xbmc nicely, and was less than $40 (prices vary since you have to bring your own USB keyboard and such). It even runs a solid NES emulator, so I have a ton of old games to play. None of this new-fangled android game stuff for me, TYVM.
Posts
To Seek,
To Learn,
To Do.
-QFG2
If the speed of light is faster then the speed of sound, is that why people always appear bright until they speak? o_O
Although I'm sure someone will post saying Android is "open" and that somehow will change things.
Lets say a contract smartphone is $80/month and a non contract smart phone plan is $50/month. These can go way higher and way lower, but lets use this as a basis. Obviously the contract rate is higher so they can subsidize your phone cost.
Now, you get a new contract phone every 2 years at $100. $80-$50 = $30/month. $30*24months = $720+$100 for the new phone. So we end up with an $820 phone every 2 years, or $410/year. Vs the Ouya's $100/year. Even if you got the phone for free it is still $360/year vs. the Ouya's $100.
I'm not arguing in favor of the Ouya, or against it, just saying that yearly contract cost needed to be taken into account.
Not when you figure in the fact that you'd be paying that contract regardless, which was her point. We ALREADY HAVE BETTER DEVICES, and pay the cost for those devices accordingly.
As for the HDMI out, there are already other Android devices with such functionality. The only real difference between the Ouya and the cellphone you already have is a dual-analog controller that will see very little use outside of the touchpad it has so that Android developers don't have to actually give their crappy games a real control scheme.
I'm not going to sit here and say the Ouya Kickstarter was a scam, but I AM going to say that if you want to make a lot of money on Kickstarter, it sure does help to use basically every bit of "anti-corporate" buzzwords that clever people think they're immune to.
To Kathleen's point, some people have iOS and don't have Android phones. And playing on your phone is different than using a controller and playing on your TV. And while I will likely be buying next-gen consoles at launch, not everyone has $500 to buy a console at launch.
The OUYA isn't competing against the PS4 for the same consumers. The OUYA is aiming at a niche market, where I think it can be successful. Oddly enough, we see this every new generation where there is a market who can't buy launch consoles because of the high prices, so we see a burst in sales of the old consoles and games for a while.
The Ouya is a conveinent emulator box, with nice HD output, and a solid controller -- that alone justifies the $99 pricetag for classic gaming enthusiasts. Why do people keep assuming that it has to be something more than that ?
http://pinmash.info - Two pins enter, one pins leaves... then the other pin leaves with a lower Elo rating
@HostileParadox -- As others have pointed out, you're probably already paying for a cell phone, and any Android device you have through your phone plan is likely to be just as good at playing Android games.
@enderandrew -- Again, I'm not sure what niche market this thing is going for. I can already play all the games it has on a phone I already own, and the Ouya's small market share isn't going to encourage people who want to make profitable games to develop them just for the Ouya. I love mobile games, but I'm not sure why "play mobile games on your TV" is a selling point. Most of them are bad and don't even look that great on my phone. Sure, indies can get access to the TV, but a better, larger, more established market for indie devs is Steam, and isn't that probably coming to the TV anyhow?
Google+: http://gplus.to/kathleen
Cat Comic: http://thingsmycathates.tumblr.com
The AAA game market on major consoles is also approaching a bubble. Consumers don't seem to like spending $60 per title, while development budgets keep going through the roof. A console that focuses on free and cheap titles (as well as the cheap barrier to entry) has huge potential. The Wii taught us in the last generation that the best graphics don't always matter. As the indie scene continues to explode, we see more and more gamers focusing on fun gameplay over cutting-edge visuals.
If there was a Steam box for $99, I'd glad take it over the OUYA. But that doesn't exist, and the OUYA does.
We can't play Ouya while on a bus, taking a shit, or waiting for our food at a restaurant. We can only play it at the expense of the consoles we already own, which is absurd. In fact, I think I just found out what you can use the Oyua for: hook it up to a small TV in the bathroom and play it while taking a shit.
Google+: http://gplus.to/kathleen
Cat Comic: http://thingsmycathates.tumblr.com
Angry Birds works great with a touchscreen. Trying to play GTA 3 on your phone doesn't work that well, even though it is available on Android. I think the key is not assuming that the games you currently play on your phone are precisely what will make up the OUYA market. It is powered by Android, but I assume developers will take advantage of the TV and controller hardware.
PAR has pointed out one of the major problems with current consoles is that they aren't very friendly to indie developers. Again, the ideal solution is a Steam Box, but that likely won't be cheap, and it doesn't exist yet.
OUYA provides the freedom of a Steam Box to developers, and a cheap price point to consumers. I don't know that it will absolutely succeed, but I think a market exists where it could succeed.
I think what we're both circling is that what everyone really wants is a Steam box. It's pretty widely known that one is coming at SOME point. So, long term, why develop games JUST for the Ouya? They have to work on Android, going Ouya exclusive means you have a tiny market, and the actual device has average to behind-the-curve processing power, even by mobile standards.
If I have limited time and resources I'll keep doing what I've already been doing. I'll either make my games for Steam or a flash site since I already know how to do that and the market is huge, OR I'll make non-Ouya exclusive mobile games, allowing me a much bigger chance of financial success.
Google+: http://gplus.to/kathleen
Cat Comic: http://thingsmycathates.tumblr.com
People forget something when considering the Ouya: there are a HUGE variety of games available on android that reaches far beyond what you consider a mobile game, and many of which would absolutely thrive on a platform like Ouya (even though they don't work as well on a phone). Shooters like the N.O.V.A. and Shadowgun, Action RPGs like Zenonia and the absurdly-fun multiplayer Legend of Dungeon.
All the games outlets are saying pithy things like "I don't want to play angry birds on my T.V." Guess what? The people who love the idea of the console don't want to play Angry Birds on their T.V. either. They want to play Legend of Dungeon on their T.V. with three friends sitting on their couch. They want to play Samurai Vengeance on their T.V. They want to play all those games that seem like they were designed with a console experience in mind, but were forced to be on android phones because of how hard it is to get a game on XBox Live Arcade.
And they want to play all the games that people start making specifically with the Ouya in mind.
I don't know if the Ouya will live up to its potential, but don't pretend the potential's not there.
Also, the news about the direct sequel to Link to the Past made me happy. In the pants.
What a dumb settlement re: the EA Sports licenses. Whoever signed off on this shit owes the taxpayers a refund for the court's time, since we paid for this ridiculous circlejerk.
Year of Luigi does sound kind of like a threat, like something Nintendo would announce and then say they'll reconsider if the WiiU sells X number of units.
Also,
Badgersbadgersbadgersbadgers...
I know I don't plan on getting either a new XBox or PS4 unless something *really* attractive comes out for either. Got a WiiU and a solid computer, I think I'm good.
(Probably doesn't help that my TV set-up is probably the most gawdawful thing ever, and involves having to lay on a bed to play it. Do not want.)
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
It's not out yet, but you still already bought it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGlyFc79BUE
Jesus christ, EA, it's only April. You've become the gaming equivalent of Frank Miller to DC Comics.
Now you're just arguing semantics. The Kickstarter is really just a fancy pre-order, so your motives aren't really all that important.
Personally, I hope it does well and it spawns a new form of gaming, but I just don't see it. If it does just become an emulation machine, it'll never stay in business because it must already be operating on razor thin margins.
The idea of selling the device at cost and making it up in the appstore is backwards, as a matter of fact, Apple for the first time ever actually started making a profit from their app store this quarter. They make all their money on the hardware.