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This got edited into my last post but again here: Aren't RPG games subjective enough that what one person considers and improvement might be a downside to another person? It's all a matter of perspective. And it would be silly to say that previous editions haven't always been informed by the earlier ones.
And besides just because there is a new version out doesn't invalidate your favorite version.
I think they should just release print on demand and pdf version of earlier editions.
Well they have most of the older stuff up on DriveThruRPG. I don't think it's print on demand, unfortunately, but you can download the PDFs.
See I didn't know that.
I thought they tended to avoid pdf releases.
They quit doing it for 4E, I think, because of rampant piracy. Probably because they charged about as much for the actual book as the PDF, which is just a tad ridiculous.
+1
AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
they have put some 4e pdfs onto their site, the ones they initially released.
0
Binary SquidWe all make choicesRegistered Userregular
I think they should just release print on demand and pdf version of earlier editions.
Also aren't RPG games subjective enough that what one person considers and improvement might be a downside to another person? It's all a matter of perspective. And it would be silly to say that previous editions haven't always been informed by the earlier ones.
To a degree. There are some things that are more objectively better or worse, mostly with either mechanics failing to do what they're intended to, or mixing elements that don't "go" together.
+1
AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
Part of me wants to look up to see if there are any groups looking for players in my city, but I'm not sure I would want to be playing with a complete group of strangers. Plus I don't have any material newer than early 4th edition and I'm not about to buy new books only to attend one meeting and give it up due to not meshing with the group.
Only reason to play 4.0 is if you don't have any 3.5 materials
or if you think 4th edition is better.
Well, yeah, if you don't have 3.5 materials
Quick! Let's incite an argument over which version of D&D is better, instead of laughing about some one making the least topical movie ever.
People like the D&D they like.
Movies about D&D have historically been absolutely terrible. I can't think of one I like, or found worth watching.
Just wait until I complete my D&D porn parody epic.
"We gotta stop the Fuckomancers!"
You people don't even want to get me and Mori started on a porn parody of Dungeons and Dragons.
Between the two of us, we could make a goddamned miniseries.
I think they should just release print on demand and pdf version of earlier editions.
Also aren't RPG games subjective enough that what one person considers and improvement might be a downside to another person? It's all a matter of perspective. And it would be silly to say that previous editions haven't always been informed by the earlier ones.
To a degree. There are some things that are more objectively better or worse, mostly with either mechanics failing to do what they're intended to, or mixing elements that don't "go" together.
Naw. I think that's pretty nitpicky. Everyone is going to like something different.
Part of me wants to look up to see if there are any groups looking for players in my city, but I'm not sure I would want to be playing with a complete group of strangers. Plus I don't have any material newer than early 4th edition and I'm not about to buy new books only to attend one meeting and give it up due to not meshing with the group.
Only reason to play 4.0 is if you don't have any 3.5 materials
or if you think 4th edition is better.
Well, yeah, if you don't have 3.5 materials
Quick! Let's incite an argument over which version of D&D is better, instead of laughing about some one making the least topical movie ever.
People like the D&D they like.
Movies about D&D have historically been absolutely terrible. I can't think of one I like, or found worth watching.
Just wait until I complete my D&D porn parody epic.
"We gotta stop the Fuckomancers!"
You people don't even want to get me and Mori started on a porn parody of Dungeons and Dragons.
Between the two of us, we could make a goddamned miniseries.
Hot Waterdeep Nights
This Ain't Ebberron XXX
Bigby's Fisting Hand
and if you get as obsessed as i am, somehow track down some of the boosters for the cards haha
0
ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
edited April 2013
the best system is unknown armies
unknown armies: the system where you can believe that money and wealth is the fundamental force that makes shit happen so strongly that the act of accumulating money by means other than working for it gives you fucking magic powers
but spending it makes you lose them
also dipsomancy
you get magic by being drunk and you lose it when you sober up. if you drink fancier things, or out of fancier cups, you can do fancier magics. if you get really fancy, like say you drink out of the literal holy grail, holy shit get out of this dude's way
e: excuse me brief correction: level two for dipsomancy is drink out of a fancy cup (ie JFK's coffee cup from the cuban missile crisis, elvis's personal flask, etc), level three is a unique liquor
say, the last dregs of the Cask of Amontillado, or some archaeologically preserved booze from ancient greece
Buttlord on
0
ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
edited April 2013
also my absolute favorite magic system ever: entropomancy
entropomancers are people who believe that at its core life is a series of coincidences, nothing more than random chance after random chance
by looking the universe in the eye and saying "yo fuck your random bullshit" they get power taht lets them fuck with causality
pick a fight you'll probably lose (and live)? get some power
stare down the barrel of a loaded gun and dare the other guy to pull the trigger (and live)? get some more power
hijack a bus, close your eyes, and floor it as you swerve into oncoming traffic (and live)? you can literally alter history. this is the Major Charge for entropomancers, they can alter one historical event
but if they ever let someone else take a risk that they themselves aren't willing to? go back to zero jack
please note the "and live" part of those examples, by the way
there's a reason the nickname for entropomancers is "bodybags"
Part of me wants to look up to see if there are any groups looking for players in my city, but I'm not sure I would want to be playing with a complete group of strangers. Plus I don't have any material newer than early 4th edition and I'm not about to buy new books only to attend one meeting and give it up due to not meshing with the group.
Only reason to play 4.0 is if you don't have any 3.5 materials
or if you think 4th edition is better.
Well, yeah, if you don't have 3.5 materials
Quick! Let's incite an argument over which version of D&D is better, instead of laughing about some one making the least topical movie ever.
People like the D&D they like.
Movies about D&D have historically been absolutely terrible. I can't think of one I like, or found worth watching.
Just wait until I complete my D&D porn parody epic.
"We gotta stop the Fuckomancers!"
You people don't even want to get me and Mori started on a porn parody of Dungeons and Dragons.
Between the two of us, we could make a goddamned miniseries.
Hot Waterdeep Nights
This Ain't Ebberron XXX
Bigby's Fisting Hand
Mordenkainen's Massive Erection III: Tall, Strong and Mythic
Deebie Does Krynn starring Lance Dragon
The Greatsword of Xen'Dick featuring Kallista Whorevaire
also my absolute favorite magic system ever: entropomancy
entropomancers are people who believe that at its core life is a series of coincidences, nothing more than random chance after random chance
by looking the universe in the eye and saying "yo fuck your random bullshit" they get power taht lets them fuck with causality
pick a fight you'll probably lose (and live)? get some power
stare down the barrel of a loaded gun and dare the other guy to pull the trigger (and live)? get some more power
hijack a bus, close your eyes, and floor it as you swerve into oncoming traffic (and live)? you can literally alter history. this is the Major Charge for entropomancers, they can alter one historical event
but if they ever let someone else take a risk that they themselves aren't willing to? go back to zero jack
please note the "and live" part of those examples, by the way
there's a reason the nickname for entropomancers is "bodybags"
This sounds incredible.
+3
ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
this is also a heinously brief description of the mid-tier games
above street level (dudes running into crazy occult shit, urban legends and rituals come true, that kind of thing. think Hellblazer) but below the cosmic level (people who embody cultural archetypes so mcuh that they BECOME those archetypes)
the best way to describe the cosmic level is
ok you know that one pete and pete where the dads compete to be king of the road? and mr pete beats the other guy and becomes king of the road?
that's basically ascending to the invisible college
pete and pete is a really good thing to point at to explain most parts of unknown armies that aren't Adept schools actually
Oh boy did it ever get made
Also, "the sort of people you'd expect to watch them" includes a group you may not have realized: people who are drunk and hate themselves
the best system is the one i like. all other systems are garbage.
Also i am getting tired of people complaining about 5th edition.
Guess what, outside of saying it's more like a video game, you're making so of the same arguments every grognard before you has made.
You are one of them now. It's you.
Are there problems with 5e? sure, there's issues with every edition of DnD. There will never be a the best version of DnD. just the one you like the best.
+2
ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
the problem with Next isn't even like a mechanical thing
it's philosophical
it's trying to please everyone and in the process won't please anyone
it's trying to smash things together that really don't work together to meet this end
it's gonna fail spectacularly (i hope (not because i hate 5e or w/e i just think it'll be funny to watch a trainwreck (i also think it failing would be funnier than it succeeding)))
+1
ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
if 5e succeeds and it's still a glorious trainwreck that'd be cool too
i won't hate on people for liking it
also complaining about a system and saying why you don't like it isn't really all that grognardy
it's when you start getting hyperbolic as fuck and hating on the people who do like it that you're groggin like a mofo
the best system is the one i like. all other systems are garbage.
Also i am getting tired of people complaining about 5th edition.
Guess what, outside of saying it's more like a video game, you're making so of the same arguments every grognard before you has made.
You are one of them now. It's you.
Are there problems with 5e? sure, there's issues with every edition of DnD. There will never be a the best version of DnD. just the one you like the best.
that's specious reasoning
like I realize there's a cultural tendency at work here to assert that taking sides is foolish and an ambivalent, uncaring centrism is the One True Path, but it is not just a matter of shrugging and saying "oh well that's just your opinion", it is possible to critique and analyze systems such as those employed by games along metrics such as player agency, player equivalency, balance, simplicity, burden on the person running the game, and so on and so forth
was "every grognard" critiquing preview materials of their given next edition in terms of evaluating whether or not players of different varieties had similar opportunity to participate in and influence the game? were they keeping an eye out for imbalances that favor certain players over others, or paying attention to the underlying structure and mechanics of the game to determine whether it was reasonably functional? were they taking the designers to task for vague, hopelessly broad, or contradictory statements of intent?
'cuz if they were well great on them because that's a good thing to be doing
+3
ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
why Unknown Armies is the best RPG: the opening text of the chapter on combat
Somewhere out there is someone who had loving parents, watched clouds on a summer's day, fell in love, lost a friend, is kind to small animals, and knows how to say "please" and "thank you," and yet somehow the two of you are going to end up in a dirty little room with one knife between you and you are going to have to kill that human being.
It's a terrible thing. Not just because he's come to the same realization and wants to survive just as much as you do, meaning he's going to try and puncture your internal organs to set off a cascading trauma effect that ends with you voiding your bowels, dying alone and removed from everything you've ever loved. No, it's a terrible thing because somewhere along the way you could have made a different choice. You could have avoided that knife, that room, and maybe even found some kind of common ground between the two of you. Or at least, you might have divvied up some turf and left each other alone. That would have been a lot smarter, wouldn't it? Even dogs are smart enough to do that. Now you're staring into the eyes of a fellow human and in a couple minutes one of you is going to be vomiting blood to the rhythm of a fading heartbeat. The survivor is going to remember this night for the rest of his or her life.
SIX WAYS TO STOP A FIGHT
So before you make a grab for that knife, you should maybe think about a few things. This moment is frozen in time. You can still make a better choice.
Surrender. Is your pride really worth a human life? Drop your weapon, put up your hands, and tell them you're ready to cut a deal. You walk, and in exchange you give them something they need. Sidestep the current agenda. Offer them something unrelated to your dispute. and negotiate to find a solution. Disarm. Knife on the table? Throw it out the window. Opponent with a gun? Dodge until he's out of bullets. Deescalate the confrontation to fists, if possible. You can settle your differences with some brawling and still walk away. plus neither one of you has to face a murder charge or a criminal investigation. Rechannel. So you have a conflict. Settle it a smarter way. Arm wrestle, play cards, have a scavenger hunt, a drinking contest, anything that lets you establish a winner and a loser. Smart gamblers bet nothing they aren't willing to lose. Why put your life on the line? Pass the Buck. Is there somebody more powerful than either one of you who is going to be angry that you two are coming to blows? Pretend you're all in the mafia and you can't just kill each other without kicking your dispute upstairs first. Let that symbolic superior make a decision. You both gain clout for not spilling blood. Call the Cops. If you've got a grievance against somebody, let the police do your dirty work. File charges. Get a restraining order. Sue him in civil court for wrongful harm. You can beat him down without throwing a punch. Run Away. The hell with it. Who needs this kind of heat? Blow town, get a job someplace else, build a new power base. Is the world really too small for the both of you? It's a big planet out there.
OH WELL
Still determined? Backed into a corner with no way out? Have to fight for the greater good? Up against someone too stupid to know this is a bad idea? Or maybe just itching for some action? So be it. The rest of this chapter contains rules for simulating the murder of human beings. Have fun.
ButtlordFornicusLord of Bondage and PainRegistered Userregular
edited April 2013
ditto the guy who told me, in response to me saying "i like hitting shit with a sword and i don't like being second fiddle because of it", that i could totally fix it by being this one obscure race and multiclassing with this weapon spec and like
if i gotta do that, just to be functional
your shit be broken
and not a lot of fun if you like doing cool shit and not living in a Verisimilitudiness World where there are no stories but what you create as players and it's totally possible to get eaten by a dragon at level 2 for going east instead of west
Buttlord on
0
AntimatterDevo Was RightGates of SteelRegistered Userregular
Posts
Well they have most of the older stuff up on DriveThruRPG. I don't think it's print on demand, unfortunately, but you can download the PDFs.
Wherein some family's house is basically haunted by a box of pornography.
This is a real thing that someone is trying to make happen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=jVfOqCyXgAY
And besides just because there is a new version out doesn't invalidate your favorite version.
See I didn't know that.
I thought they tended to avoid pdf releases.
They quit doing it for 4E, I think, because of rampant piracy. Probably because they charged about as much for the actual book as the PDF, which is just a tad ridiculous.
I was almost hit when a box of pornography cut me off. The box then gave me the finger like it was my fault and sped up.
I'm sure it was a box of pornography and not an old lady that passengers in the car say it was.
Are you sure it was a finger that the box of pornography held up at you? And not perhaps... a different body part altogether?
A box with a penis? Now you're just being silly. Everyone knows that boxes reproduce asexually through budding.
Be afraid.
To a degree. There are some things that are more objectively better or worse, mostly with either mechanics failing to do what they're intended to, or mixing elements that don't "go" together.
You people don't even want to get me and Mori started on a porn parody of Dungeons and Dragons.
Between the two of us, we could make a goddamned miniseries.
Naw. I think that's pretty nitpicky. Everyone is going to like something different.
4th Ed. players roll like that.
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Hot Waterdeep Nights
This Ain't Ebberron XXX
Bigby's Fisting Hand
Oh, I'm thinking about buying Gamma World, soon
But I missed a psychiatrist appointment and got pegged with a $170 bill
I can understand a penalty
but that makes me want a new psychiatrist
Twitch (I stream most days of the week)
Twitter (mean leftist discourse)
Your move, nerds.
i hope you get gamma world soon, though
and if you like it enough, the expansions
and if you get as obsessed as i am, somehow track down some of the boosters for the cards haha
unknown armies: the system where you can believe that money and wealth is the fundamental force that makes shit happen so strongly that the act of accumulating money by means other than working for it gives you fucking magic powers
but spending it makes you lose them
also dipsomancy
you get magic by being drunk and you lose it when you sober up. if you drink fancier things, or out of fancier cups, you can do fancier magics. if you get really fancy, like say you drink out of the literal holy grail, holy shit get out of this dude's way
e: excuse me brief correction: level two for dipsomancy is drink out of a fancy cup (ie JFK's coffee cup from the cuban missile crisis, elvis's personal flask, etc), level three is a unique liquor
say, the last dregs of the Cask of Amontillado, or some archaeologically preserved booze from ancient greece
entropomancers are people who believe that at its core life is a series of coincidences, nothing more than random chance after random chance
by looking the universe in the eye and saying "yo fuck your random bullshit" they get power taht lets them fuck with causality
pick a fight you'll probably lose (and live)? get some power
stare down the barrel of a loaded gun and dare the other guy to pull the trigger (and live)? get some more power
hijack a bus, close your eyes, and floor it as you swerve into oncoming traffic (and live)? you can literally alter history. this is the Major Charge for entropomancers, they can alter one historical event
but if they ever let someone else take a risk that they themselves aren't willing to? go back to zero jack
please note the "and live" part of those examples, by the way
there's a reason the nickname for entropomancers is "bodybags"
Mordenkainen's Massive Erection III: Tall, Strong and Mythic
Deebie Does Krynn starring Lance Dragon
The Greatsword of Xen'Dick featuring Kallista Whorevaire
This sounds incredible.
above street level (dudes running into crazy occult shit, urban legends and rituals come true, that kind of thing. think Hellblazer) but below the cosmic level (people who embody cultural archetypes so mcuh that they BECOME those archetypes)
the best way to describe the cosmic level is
ok you know that one pete and pete where the dads compete to be king of the road? and mr pete beats the other guy and becomes king of the road?
that's basically ascending to the invisible college
pete and pete is a really good thing to point at to explain most parts of unknown armies that aren't Adept schools actually
Oh boy did it ever get made
Also, "the sort of people you'd expect to watch them" includes a group you may not have realized: people who are drunk and hate themselves
Also i am getting tired of people complaining about 5th edition.
Guess what, outside of saying it's more like a video game, you're making so of the same arguments every grognard before you has made.
You are one of them now. It's you.
Are there problems with 5e? sure, there's issues with every edition of DnD. There will never be a the best version of DnD. just the one you like the best.
it's philosophical
it's trying to please everyone and in the process won't please anyone
it's trying to smash things together that really don't work together to meet this end
it's gonna fail spectacularly (i hope (not because i hate 5e or w/e i just think it'll be funny to watch a trainwreck (i also think it failing would be funnier than it succeeding)))
i won't hate on people for liking it
also complaining about a system and saying why you don't like it isn't really all that grognardy
it's when you start getting hyperbolic as fuck and hating on the people who do like it that you're groggin like a mofo
it's a double LP released solely on eight-track
that's specious reasoning
like I realize there's a cultural tendency at work here to assert that taking sides is foolish and an ambivalent, uncaring centrism is the One True Path, but it is not just a matter of shrugging and saying "oh well that's just your opinion", it is possible to critique and analyze systems such as those employed by games along metrics such as player agency, player equivalency, balance, simplicity, burden on the person running the game, and so on and so forth
was "every grognard" critiquing preview materials of their given next edition in terms of evaluating whether or not players of different varieties had similar opportunity to participate in and influence the game? were they keeping an eye out for imbalances that favor certain players over others, or paying attention to the underlying structure and mechanics of the game to determine whether it was reasonably functional? were they taking the designers to task for vague, hopelessly broad, or contradictory statements of intent?
'cuz if they were well great on them because that's a good thing to be doing
some people would argue that these imbalances are a good thing
those people can suck my ass through a straw
if i gotta do that, just to be functional
your shit be broken
and not a lot of fun if you like doing cool shit and not living in a Verisimilitudiness World where there are no stories but what you create as players and it's totally possible to get eaten by a dragon at level 2 for going east instead of west
come play with us