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Pax Prime, not in Seattle (2015?)
Graveborn
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Robert Khoo states the following to Polygon: The segment take is the last two paragraphs in an article about scalpers.
PAX Prime, which runs from Aug. 30 to Sept. 2, continues to grow, despite the addition of PAX East in Boston starting in 2010 and PAX Australia this year. While Khoo said the team would like to keep PAX Prime in Seattle, the rocketing attendance may force a move from the city.
"When push comes to shove and it becomes too difficult to do PAX in Seattle I will have to look at other possibilities at some point," he said, "but not right now."
I have to say I was extremely disappointed to read this. Extremly. PA was born in Seattle. The first PAX was absolutley horrible. Bad venue, not many booths, not many speakers, but people that supported PA came out. They had a good time, told thier friends and the next year grew to be bigger and better. Every year, more and more support, allowing them to then get bigger booths and bigger name speakers, until it got so big that PAX East was born.
The Seattle area PA/PAX supporter is what carried this endevour to what it is today. Sure, moving it to another location would probably mean more capacity, but how about a bit of fraking loyality?
PAX Prime, which runs from Aug. 30 to Sept. 2, continues to grow, despite the addition of PAX East in Boston starting in 2010 and PAX Australia this year. While Khoo said the team would like to keep PAX Prime in Seattle, the rocketing attendance may force a move from the city.
"When push comes to shove and it becomes too difficult to do PAX in Seattle I will have to look at other possibilities at some point," he said, "but not right now."
I have to say I was extremely disappointed to read this. Extremly. PA was born in Seattle. The first PAX was absolutley horrible. Bad venue, not many booths, not many speakers, but people that supported PA came out. They had a good time, told thier friends and the next year grew to be bigger and better. Every year, more and more support, allowing them to then get bigger booths and bigger name speakers, until it got so big that PAX East was born.
The Seattle area PA/PAX supporter is what carried this endevour to what it is today. Sure, moving it to another location would probably mean more capacity, but how about a bit of fraking loyality?
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Although this is slightly off topic, the Oregon Convention Center has less than half the exhibit space of the BCEC. Oregon Convention Center has 255k sq ft of exhibit space, the BCEC has 516k sq ft of exhibit space.
The "1million sq ft" figure that is sometimes used for the Oregon Convention Center is the total square footage of the building, including expo, meeting, ballroom, and hallway spaces. The BCEC does not cite its total space, but only lists its exhibit (516k), pre-function space (lobbies, not including hallways-300k), meeting (160k), and ballroom (40k) sizes.
These sorts of numbers are very often misquoted and misused because they're taken from potentially unreliable sources, or they aren't apples to apples comparisons. It's important to separate the usage categories out like this to get a decent comparison of sizes.
citations:
http://www.advantageboston.com/bcec/floor-plans-and-specs/exhibit-space.aspx
http://www.advantageboston.com/bcec/floor-plans-and-specs/registrationfunction.aspx
http://www.advantageboston.com/bcec/floor-plans-and-specs/meeting-rooms.aspx
http://www.advantageboston.com/bcec/floor-plans-and-specs/grand-ballroom.aspx
http://www.oregoncc.org/PlanYourEvent/
Money aside, I feel Prime is Seattle, and moving it would take alot of the heart out of it, prime started here and should stay here. I do like the idea of a pax central somewhere in the Midwest, but I think the next will be a PAX Europe some where else wherever seas.
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Using On-Screen Takeoff (a program used in estimating) & the plans provided on the websites of each convention center I came up with the following sizes for each venue:
WSCC: 882,700 SF
BCEC: 1,391,200 SF
OCC: 719,620 SF
This includes all the spaces of each venue minus the loading docks.
OCC may have a bit more exhibition space, but it has less overall space.
Here is the link to the spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AilPyWyh2FlbdG1tMThrXzBidVRyd0IxOVpIeUtWMkE&usp=sharing
I think having more PAXs is a better option then moving away from Seattle.
Also, I'm pretty sure they're contracted through WSCTC for quite a few years still, but I could be mistaken.
Personally, I wouldn't ever want to see Prime moved. Sure the WSCTC can be a bit of a cluster-fuck some times, and it's way too small for demand these days, but the location in downtown Seattle is awesome. There's just so many places to go, things to see and do within walking distance. I think that's the biggest point to make for me. If Seattle sucked and there wasn't anything good nearby then I might not have a problem with Prime moving, but I love Seattle.
This pdf file taken from their website only shows two floors: http://findit.oregoncc.org/Floor Plans/occ_FacilitySpecs.pdf
It does show a Lobby & Skyview that are on slightly different levels. I am not sure what the OCC looks like too well. I haven't been there since the TMNT concert tour.
Yes, PAX could move anywhere and still sell out in record times, but not having a viable option in the PNW means they won't be moving any time soon and everyone (including WSCC) knows it.
Just so you're aware, the way this reads to other people is, "Sure moving it to another location would mean that way, way more people could experience an awesome thing, but how about not inconveniencing me personally?"
Downtown Seattle is cool, and that's a stupid reason to keep a convention there. The Seattle convention center is clearly not large enough for demand. I also think it's dumb to keep the convention there just because the Penny Arcade people are from there - they are willing to fly to Australia, Boston, etc., would Las Vegas or Portland be vastly more inconvenient? - but it is their convention and they can do what they want with it... although that's not even the argument being put forth in this thread.
I actually never go on these forums, this thread just came up on a google search I did for that polygon article. I was so irritated at the selfishness on display here I wanted to register and let you know how offensive this is to an outsider; changing venues would allow a vast increase in the number of people that could experience the greatness of PAX, wanting to keep it in a small place because that's how it's always been is just so shortsighted and selfish. And being "disappointed" in them for even "considering" (Khoo's quote makes it seem very unlikely they will actually move it) changing venues? Unbelievable.
meetingsfocus.com/NewsEvents/IndustryNews/IndustryNewsDetails/tabid/138/ArticleID/20932/Default.aspx
I also don't understand how these ticketing places cant keep the website up... Its not rocket surgery to design your cloud to handle 100k users or more at once.
Agreed. So Graveborn, you argue loyalty. What about the loyalty owed to the people who want to attend PAX, but couldn't because tickets sold out? Isn't it the responsible thing for Khoo and Penny Arcade to try and find a way to allow everyone who wants to attend any PAX to do so? Because they moved the first PAX to a bigger venue when space was too constrained. They moved PAX East after space became an issue. They are likely to move PAX Aus when it runs into the same difficulty. So why not move PAX Prime somewhere they can double the attendance?
PAX is not a local sports team: the attendees are not all locals. People fly in from all over the world. I'm coming from the UK. And even if there was a PAX Europe, that shouldn't rule out my attendance of PAX Prime. And ideally, neither should availability. Anyone who wants to attend any PAX anywhere should simply be able to buy a ticket and attend. But right now, there isn't enough space to allow this. It is a problem that needs solving.
Now, Coldbrew makes a good point that the vibe of PAX Prime is entwined with Seattle. It would have a different feel in a different place. But different doesn't have to be bad, and the main question is: would you rather attend PAX Prime in a different venue, or not attend PAX Prime in Seattle? Because for most people those are looking to be the only choices.
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Reading the FAKhoo, I'm guessing that it wasn't the ticket transactions, but the credit card transactions that were actually the issue. And that is likely to be a 3rd party system processing them. You can't really make them go faster, they are just going to say "We process them at this speed. If you want them done, you have to wait."
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Dallas Convention Center! Over 2,000,000 square feet!!
Given their reaction to heat, maybe Dallas isn't going to be the right place.
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I'm in agreement with Dedwrekka. I can't possibly imagine that the folks at PA haven't given any thought to hosting a PAX in the South somewhere. Houston, Dallas, even Austin (where some very major game companies are located) would be great. This way, at least in the lower 48 states, it would give people an opprotunity to go to the closest PAX they can. I imagine the people coming from the southern part of the country would much rather travel to Austin or Dallas instead of making the hike up to Boston or Seattle. I really think putting a PAX way down in the southern central part of the US is smart so that you can maximize attendance without cannibalizing your business from other PAX locations.
The case could be made for any region - not just the south. There's not a single would-be attendee who wouldn't want to see a PAX venue closer to their home.
I think you two are missing the point.
Moving PAX Prime is not about moving it closer to anywhere. It would be about moving it to a bigger venue. That's it.
They are unlikely to add a third US PAX given they have said they want one in Europe eventually, which would make 4 already. They can't keep adding PAXes everywhere due to the time it takes setting them up, running them and dismantling them. I think 4 weekends a year is about the limit, especially if they are going to have two international ones.
The best way to make a case for PAX Anywhere-other-than-Seattle isn't to say "people in x region would love to travel less." It's to play up the venue size, hotel capacities, airport(s) and transport links. A smaller consideration is the "vibe" of the city, but since the primary goal is to get people into the venue and enjoying PAX it probably won't be as valuable as some think.
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Not true. Prime is about 15 minutes away from me. I don't want it any closer than that :P (yes, it's possible, and yes, it used to be back when it was in Bellevue)
I've only been once, but even I could see that a lot of PAX's character is tied up with Seattle, and being anywhere else, it wouldn't be quite the same. LA or Vegas could give more space, but it'd also mean changing a big part of the character of PAX, and that's something that shouldn't be done lightly.
I think the main problem with LA as a PAX venue would be the transportation. If they did go California-based for the next PAX Prime (or more likely, temporarily move it until Seattle finish building new space) they are more likely to go to San Francisco or San Diego. The recent DLC says SF is Khoo's favourite place for the weird people.
Vegas would have the heat issue. I have been to conventions there, and stepping onto the sidewalk in daylight is painful.
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466,500 sqft total. Considering that the WSCC has 205,700 sqft on the 4th floor alone and around 400,000 sqft total, I don't think Vancouver is going to be big enough to make the move worth it.
Really they are going to be looking at 1 million sqft to increase the capacity to where everyone who tried to buy a ticket this year can get one, and host enough exhibits to be worth having that space.
From an economic perspective, doubling attendance by doubling conference space rented doesn't allow you to double your price for booth space, or to host double the booths. So a place which is more expensive than Seattle has that working against it already.
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How to counter such a well structured argument. Hmm..
Which other buildings are available? A quick overview of the area suggests nothing really suitable. They already moved to a bigger theater to accommodate more people. What else do you suggest? Throw a circus tent on Pier 62 for PAX: Three Ring Circus? (Actually that sounds pretty sweet.)
Adding more days would not allow a large increase in attendance, since the vast majority of attendees grab tickets for every single day they can. Adding a fourth day didn't make people say "Which three of the four days should we attend?" They said "An extra day of PAX! Yoink!" as they grabbed the tickets.
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Care to elaborate? If it moved to somewhere with a larger venue and you were able to get tickets, would you still be sad?
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LACC has 860,000 sqft total. That's a big plus.
It is in LA. That's...hmm. I mean, it's right by the freeway, so in theory that makes it easy to get the trucks there and set up. On the other hand, LA traffic is notorious on an international level.
They have a huge international airport close by. That is a plus. But again, it is LAX. So that is heading towards minus country.
As to the "vibe" aspect, I just threw my GoogleEarth guy randomly at the map near the LACC. The historic and downtown sections actually look like a more LA-ified Seattle than I thought they would.
I think the clincher will be price. All that sqft needs to be about the same cost as Seattle to avoid a price hike on the tickets, booth space, etc. Hotels would need to be roughly the same, perhaps a touch more expensive.
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I keep coming back to this, and honestly the 150k on top of the 400k at WSCC isn't going to cut it (unless they are currently only occupying part of WSCC) if they are looking to double capacity. Add on that they need to wait through PAX '14, '15 and '16 before it happens, and a move looks more probable. Although I'm more and more wanting my tent-on-the-pier idea to be considered. Circus PAX, with mimes and clowns you can hit with a rake.
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Here's something that I see people keep assuming. Who says they are looking to dramatically increase the capacity? I believe at some point, the con can have too many people, and the attendee experience will suffer greatly because of it. Just because they could in theory sell twice as many passes as they have doesn't mean that they should.