This ain't gonna last long. I'd rather be vanilla and someone else the guard even, since then at least I won't lose us a special being a target and I have a chance that I'll benefit from a guard some day!
Ah well, at least I guarded Vert on day 2.
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
I'm actually surprised it was even as close as it was. The only uncertainty at the end was if zonugal or blah was the last mafia
I will never be Mafia.
Ever.
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
Also this was my first phalla in which I made it to the end.
Which should have been an indicator for you guys as I was Harrowed and think if I had been voted out (like is so commonly done) there would have been some damage around the United States.
Awww, I got day 1'd without discussion. Being day 1'd is no big deal, but I want it to come with some ego food : (
Invictus - Isn't the ego food the fact that no one disagreed with Gizzy's choice of target? Silent unanimous agreement is still unanimous agreement.
I will take it, sir.
Generalísimo de Fuerzas Armadas de la República Argentina
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
So I ate some village specials, but I also ate the Mafia vigilante. Apparently, the Mafia thought I was a special when I resisted a Harrowing?
Interesting point. My kill on the last day was on Godmode for like, 90% of it. I switched to Spectre when he called me out and I thought it was a last ditch attempt to find me.
Godmode was high on my list of suspects (not an unknown quantity to everyone that claimed to know who the hunter was), Spectre was a close second, and Auralynx was actually suspect 3.
I was all ready to reveal to Lynx and offer to kill a bunch of Harrowed to get the hunter's identity at one point.
Thanks for running this, Assuran! I really enjoyed the madness!
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
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blahmcblahYou pick your side and you stick - you don't cut and run when things get ugly.Registered Userregular
Next game needs 100% more tumblebleeds. Those things are awesome! And maybe some jackalopes too.
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blahmcblahYou pick your side and you stick - you don't cut and run when things get ugly.Registered Userregular
So who was the CSA causing "friendly fire"? The CSA vig?
Yeah, JaysonFour. I was very confused by him being a sharpshooter half the time, and the other half being a Cheyenne warrior scalping people. Was pretty shocked to discover it was one guy. At least it worked to confuse KetBra as well!
I do understand Millers and Thralls are very contentious issues in our community.
Some find them game breaking and unfun, and I understand your point of view. I think as long as you provide a counter (and frankly, the way the morticians are wrote up, they are a hard counter), it is fine to use them.
I get that the morticians functioned as a hard counter, and had they survived they would have absolutely DECIMATED the mafia. I'm not saying that they're broken from a power perspective. My issue is that they strongly negate the ability of the vanillagers to have an impact on the game. Pretty much a vanillager's only potential contribution is analysis, and I can't really do that effectively without having good info to analyze. I felt, as a vanillager outside the network, with really nothing to go on (since my one attempt at analysis; that is, saying that jdark wasn't mafia at all, had turned out "false"), I couldn't really contribute anymore. I mean, and then I died, but still.
Vanillagers also need to make good judgment calls and rational decisions when called upon (shenanigans happening, endgame scenarios). Which, granted, is much harder to do with unreliable narration, but this game could've gone at least one more day had Zonugal voted for spool instead of himself at the end. JOURNEY phalla was another game (of many, I'm sure) that turned on vanillagers making a silly decision (in this case, to deliberately tie the vote at the end).
Also, there were no true vanillagers in this game. Anyone could join up to vig or guard another player. Early on, I worried that any hitsquads forming up would eventually find and kill us.
@Assuran my feedback: I would suggest making the SK hunter's job just the tiniest bit easier in a game this large. Either have the ability to hunt/kill the same night (You picked the right target, you win!) or give them the option to take one other action along with hunting each night.
As it was, my role was incredibly difficult. So difficult in fact, that I found myself giving away sensitive information on day 1 just in hopes of having a shot.
godmode on
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AssuranIs swinging on the SpiralRegistered Userregular
I think I agree with you. I pondered bumping your investigative power to 2 players a night, but ultimately decided against it because I dislike changing roles mid game.
Any mention of a confederate sharpshooter was actually a vanillager taking part in a kill. The CSA vig was always listed as a Cheyenne Warrior.
Admittedly my aim wasn't that hot at first- I didn't want to network with premium because I was 90% sure he'd already been compromised. The others, well... I guess we just ran into a wall of guards and medics and didn't have the resources to do much of anything.
I mean, cripes- the mafia in this game was so OP, it's not even funny- there's no way the mafia should have had access to so much in the way of abilities, HP game or no. Once vertroue went down, Wiet became damn near invincible- and there's no way that there should have been two evil guards AND a medic without vigs becoming normal vigs instead of 30 point attacks. That pretty much nerfed myself and vertroue- and don't get me started about spreadable healing.
In essence, the mafia ended up being able to select:
-A Guard
-25 points of spreadable healing
-A Guard, a Seer, A Vig with a bomb attached
-2 damage to everyone
-A Tailor
-A Vig
-A Voteblock
-A Hex
every single day.
I admit, I liked the source material just fine, but I'll remember this game for being "the one with the OP mafia". I mean, think about it- the guard, Raven, and the healer end up chaining- two members are guarded every night, and the third is healed for 25 HP, essentially meaning both vigs have to hit them to kill them dead. Kill one of the vigs, and well, all the mafia really had to worry about was the vote, and for that, they had the Manitou to voteblock and manip.
Assuran, I think you have talent with your source material, and your writing, but you've got to get the power creep under control.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
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Zonugal(He/Him) The Holiday ArmadilloI'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered Userregular
Vanillagers also need to make good judgment calls and rational decisions when called upon (shenanigans happening, endgame scenarios). Which, granted, is much harder to do with unreliable narration, but this game could've gone at least one more day had Zonugal voted for spool instead of himself at the end.
Also the voteblock was a one-time use per person that permanently buffed the target 5 hp. And it was a delayed power, we couldn't use the person until the next day. So unless we buffed the whole village (which we wanted to avoid), it was a very circumstantial ability.
Switch Animal Crossing Friend Code: SW-5107-9276-1030
Island Name: Felinefine
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AssuranIs swinging on the SpiralRegistered Userregular
edited May 2013
I think he's saying that because he was seered as a bomb, the village was afraid of voting him out, hence a guard of sorts.
My only real regret is guard + medic on the mafia, as it allowed you to turtle. I don't believe spreadable healing on the mafia by itself is an issue, but I do believe in conjunction with a guard, it was too powerful.
Granted, this was suppossed to be balanced around the fact the mafia only had 8 to start in a 46 player game, which is slightly below normal spread.
In all honestly, 4 mafia survived direct Vig attacks, only 1 of which was true guarded by the mafia, which probably means the vig had to do more damage.
I think giving the mafia another attack power instead of the guard was probably a better decision in retrospect.
Assuran on
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
I think if you wanted to give the mafia something interesting, giving them some sort of reactive damage, like people seemed to believe the ebum 2-hp ability was, would've been better. "Damage everyone who targets X," for example.
Awww, I got day 1'd without discussion. Being day 1'd is no big deal, but I want it to come with some ego food : (
I chose to Day 1 you, b/c as a mafia .. you not on my side scares me.
There are other players that are also scary, but they have a tendency to only start trying if they live to day 3. You on the other hand, start working straight away.
Switch Animal Crossing Friend Code: SW-5107-9276-1030
Island Name: Felinefine
I was so low on health that if i died we could ensure everyone else survived your last vig. I was prepared to go down if the gambit didn't flip one villager...
I really can't stress enough how I feel like I narrowly avoided a 40-car pileup, when I look at the mortician ability. Lady Luck was not on the village's side with that, but it absolutely could have rendered the narration changes not only null, but actively dangerous.
Coupled with Mega and Lockeout being able to pick up their mantles (hissssssss), this absolutely could have gone the other way.
I really can't stress enough how I feel like I narrowly avoided a 40-car pileup, when I look at the mortician ability. Lady Luck was not on the village's side with that, but it absolutely could have rendered the narration changes not only null, but actively dangerous.
Coupled with Mega and Lockeout being able to pick up their mantles (hissssssss), this absolutely could have gone the other way.
You have no idea.
The day that ebum was voted out, Kay was trying to convince me to inherit a mortician's role (although this freaked me out because I didn't tell anyone I could become a village special).
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KayWhat we need...Is a little bit of PANIC.Registered Userregular
Process of deduction, MF.
I think I also pointed out the Guards of both factions to you at some point, too. So you had like, a choice.
Still can't believe I switched my kill off of Godmode and onto Teh_Spectre on that last day. EPIC.
I think he's saying that because he was seered as a bomb, the village was afraid of voting him out, hence a guard of sorts.
My only real regret is guard + medic on the mafia, as it allowed you to turtle. I don't believe spreadable healing on the mafia by itself is an issue, but I do believe in conjunction with a guard, it was too powerful.
Granted, this was suppossed to be balanced around the fact the mafia only had 8 to start in a 46 player game, which is slightly below normal spread.
In all honestly, 4 mafia survived direct Vig attacks, only 1 of which was true guarded by the mafia, which probably means the vig had to do more damage.
I think giving the mafia another attack power instead of the guard was probably a better decision in retrospect.
Ah! You can't balance for a weaker mafia and then put people who can join the mafia. In a faction game. Choosing between village and mafia is one thing. Choosing between half the village, the other half of the village and the mafia is quite another
Admittedly my aim wasn't that hot at first- I didn't want to network with premium because I was 90% sure he'd already been compromised. The others, well... I guess we just ran into a wall of guards and medics and didn't have the resources to do much of anything.
I mean, cripes- the mafia in this game was so OP, it's not even funny- there's no way the mafia should have had access to so much in the way of abilities, HP game or no. Once vertroue went down, Wiet became damn near invincible- and there's no way that there should have been two evil guards AND a medic without vigs becoming normal vigs instead of 30 point attacks. That pretty much nerfed myself and vertroue- and don't get me started about spreadable healing.
In essence, the mafia ended up being able to select:
-A Guard
-25 points of spreadable healing
-A Guard, a Seer, A Vig with a bomb attached
-2 damage to everyone
-A Tailor
-A Vig
-A Voteblock
-A Hex
every single day.
I admit, I liked the source material just fine, but I'll remember this game for being "the one with the OP mafia". I mean, think about it- the guard, Raven, and the healer end up chaining- two members are guarded every night, and the third is healed for 25 HP, essentially meaning both vigs have to hit them to kill them dead. Kill one of the vigs, and well, all the mafia really had to worry about was the vote, and for that, they had the Manitou to voteblock and manip.
Assuran, I think you have talent with your source material, and your writing, but you've got to get the power creep under control.
We weren't that overpowered. The guard + medic might have been a bit too much, but the village had twice that. The bomb was terrible and wouldn't kill anyone when it went off, and I don't understand why you would ever think he was a guard, a seer, or a vig. He only had the regular three actions of any player in the game. 2 damage to everyone was hardly worth using. The village's morticians were a hard counter to the tailor, and also would've completely ruined what we ended up doing with the harrowed in the end (harrowing mafia for the damage shield). Our Vig was less powerful than the village vigs - he could've (and would've, had he survived long enough) been thwarted by healing and/or a vanillager guard. Being able to block the votes of two (basically) random people really doesn't do anything in the beginning - it's a two-day process, so you can't just pick any two people in the village to block that day; you pick them in the hopes that blocking them on a future day will be useful, which never happened for us. Gizzy needed to survive until the end for that ability to have any real impact, otherwise all we we were doing was making lots of villagers tougher to kill. Until we realized we could use the wordbomb as a namebomb (which Assuran told us was a mistake), the hex was almost completely useless. It's tough to predict a day in advance that someone will say a word long enough to kill them the next day. Attempts at baiting people into saying their trigger word almost never worked. It was a neat, and as a third mafia kill it needed to be low-power, but it was very low-power.
When you cut out our near-useless to completely useless abilities, the village had more of everything we had, plus more awesome stuff.
The village had:
-Two guards
-50 points of spreadable healing
-Two seers
-Two players (morticians) who could completely wreck the mafia with their passive ability
-Two stronger vigs
-Two busdrivers (good luck to the mafia with healing and guards with them around!)
-The other 24 "vanillagers" to attack and guard for you
Seriously, if it weren't for one busdriver getting voted out, and the other being the target of our seer gambit, they would've destroyed us in the end. Similarly the morticians living/talking would've been game over for us. We were this close to it being a total cakewalk for the village. The reason the game went on as long as it did and was so close was partly because it was pretty well balanced, and mostly because we got very lucky.
When you say "the village" keep in mind that this was a faction game and if you had been less dominating there would have been much more infighting. You didn't see much past the first couple days simply because the village was so far behind we needed everything just to keep up
Posts
You were absolutely bonkers and I loved you for it. Play again
Faction guard. fffffffffff
This ain't gonna last long.
Ah well, at least I guarded Vert on day 2.
I will never be Mafia.
Ever.
Which should have been an indicator for you guys as I was Harrowed and think if I had been voted out (like is so commonly done) there would have been some damage around the United States.
@Invictus - Isn't the ego food the fact that no one disagreed with Gizzy's choice of target? Silent unanimous agreement is still unanimous agreement.
I will take it, sir.
Interesting point. My kill on the last day was on Godmode for like, 90% of it. I switched to Spectre when he called me out and I thought it was a last ditch attempt to find me.
Godmode was high on my list of suspects (not an unknown quantity to everyone that claimed to know who the hunter was), Spectre was a close second, and Auralynx was actually suspect 3.
I was all ready to reveal to Lynx and offer to kill a bunch of Harrowed to get the hunter's identity at one point.
Thanks for running this, Assuran! I really enjoyed the madness!
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Yeah, JaysonFour. I was very confused by him being a sharpshooter half the time, and the other half being a Cheyenne warrior scalping people. Was pretty shocked to discover it was one guy. At least it worked to confuse KetBra as well!
I had this exact conversation in my head when the mafia hit me day 1 of TimeCops.
Vanillagers also need to make good judgment calls and rational decisions when called upon (shenanigans happening, endgame scenarios). Which, granted, is much harder to do with unreliable narration, but this game could've gone at least one more day had Zonugal voted for spool instead of himself at the end. JOURNEY phalla was another game (of many, I'm sure) that turned on vanillagers making a silly decision (in this case, to deliberately tie the vote at the end).
Also, there were no true vanillagers in this game. Anyone could join up to vig or guard another player. Early on, I worried that any hitsquads forming up would eventually find and kill us.
auaghsgdh
I switched the cythraul because I was pretty sure both were mafia and the cythraul vote finally seemed to have traction
Didn't work out so well though
As it was, my role was incredibly difficult. So difficult in fact, that I found myself giving away sensitive information on day 1 just in hopes of having a shot.
I think I agree with you. I pondered bumping your investigative power to 2 players a night, but ultimately decided against it because I dislike changing roles mid game.
Any mention of a confederate sharpshooter was actually a vanillager taking part in a kill. The CSA vig was always listed as a Cheyenne Warrior.
I mean, cripes- the mafia in this game was so OP, it's not even funny- there's no way the mafia should have had access to so much in the way of abilities, HP game or no. Once vertroue went down, Wiet became damn near invincible- and there's no way that there should have been two evil guards AND a medic without vigs becoming normal vigs instead of 30 point attacks. That pretty much nerfed myself and vertroue- and don't get me started about spreadable healing.
In essence, the mafia ended up being able to select:
-A Guard
-25 points of spreadable healing
-A Guard, a Seer, A Vig with a bomb attached
-2 damage to everyone
-A Tailor
-A Vig
-A Voteblock
-A Hex
every single day.
I admit, I liked the source material just fine, but I'll remember this game for being "the one with the OP mafia". I mean, think about it- the guard, Raven, and the healer end up chaining- two members are guarded every night, and the third is healed for 25 HP, essentially meaning both vigs have to hit them to kill them dead. Kill one of the vigs, and well, all the mafia really had to worry about was the vote, and for that, they had the Manitou to voteblock and manip.
Assuran, I think you have talent with your source material, and your writing, but you've got to get the power creep under control.
I can has cheezburger, yes?
Could have likely been me.
I was prone to firing upon individuals out of pure spite.
I regret nothing.
Island Name: Felinefine
Island Name: Felinefine
Island Name: Felinefine
My only real regret is guard + medic on the mafia, as it allowed you to turtle. I don't believe spreadable healing on the mafia by itself is an issue, but I do believe in conjunction with a guard, it was too powerful.
Granted, this was suppossed to be balanced around the fact the mafia only had 8 to start in a 46 player game, which is slightly below normal spread.
In all honestly, 4 mafia survived direct Vig attacks, only 1 of which was true guarded by the mafia, which probably means the vig had to do more damage.
I think giving the mafia another attack power instead of the guard was probably a better decision in retrospect.
I chose to Day 1 you, b/c as a mafia .. you not on my side scares me.
There are other players that are also scary, but they have a tendency to only start trying if they live to day 3. You on the other hand, start working straight away.
Island Name: Felinefine
I was so low on health that if i died we could ensure everyone else survived your last vig. I was prepared to go down if the gambit didn't flip one villager...
I confirmed Mikey specifically because you killed aura.
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
Coupled with Mega and Lockeout being able to pick up their mantles (hissssssss), this absolutely could have gone the other way.
You have no idea.
The day that ebum was voted out, Kay was trying to convince me to inherit a mortician's role (although this freaked me out because I didn't tell anyone I could become a village special).
I think I also pointed out the Guards of both factions to you at some point, too. So you had like, a choice.
Still can't believe I switched my kill off of Godmode and onto Teh_Spectre on that last day. EPIC.
3DS FCode: 1993-7512-8991
Ah! You can't balance for a weaker mafia and then put people who can join the mafia. In a faction game. Choosing between village and mafia is one thing. Choosing between half the village, the other half of the village and the mafia is quite another
We weren't that overpowered. The guard + medic might have been a bit too much, but the village had twice that. The bomb was terrible and wouldn't kill anyone when it went off, and I don't understand why you would ever think he was a guard, a seer, or a vig. He only had the regular three actions of any player in the game. 2 damage to everyone was hardly worth using. The village's morticians were a hard counter to the tailor, and also would've completely ruined what we ended up doing with the harrowed in the end (harrowing mafia for the damage shield). Our Vig was less powerful than the village vigs - he could've (and would've, had he survived long enough) been thwarted by healing and/or a vanillager guard. Being able to block the votes of two (basically) random people really doesn't do anything in the beginning - it's a two-day process, so you can't just pick any two people in the village to block that day; you pick them in the hopes that blocking them on a future day will be useful, which never happened for us. Gizzy needed to survive until the end for that ability to have any real impact, otherwise all we we were doing was making lots of villagers tougher to kill. Until we realized we could use the wordbomb as a namebomb (which Assuran told us was a mistake), the hex was almost completely useless. It's tough to predict a day in advance that someone will say a word long enough to kill them the next day. Attempts at baiting people into saying their trigger word almost never worked. It was a neat, and as a third mafia kill it needed to be low-power, but it was very low-power.
When you cut out our near-useless to completely useless abilities, the village had more of everything we had, plus more awesome stuff.
The village had:
-Two guards
-50 points of spreadable healing
-Two seers
-Two players (morticians) who could completely wreck the mafia with their passive ability
-Two stronger vigs
-Two busdrivers (good luck to the mafia with healing and guards with them around!)
-The other 24 "vanillagers" to attack and guard for you
Seriously, if it weren't for one busdriver getting voted out, and the other being the target of our seer gambit, they would've destroyed us in the end. Similarly the morticians living/talking would've been game over for us. We were this close to it being a total cakewalk for the village. The reason the game went on as long as it did and was so close was partly because it was pretty well balanced, and mostly because we got very lucky.