There we agree. I just think they're too randomly GOOD.
On another note, I'm starting to think that swarm hosts have a very distinct window in which they are useful in ZvP, but the moment it closes you need to sacrifice and replace them. I keep seeing a lot of games where players are unable to reinforce fast enough after a good protoss composition invalidates their offensive potential. Then, as the game gets later and later, their lack of mobility becomes a huge issue for defense.
I only won this game due to the fact that I happened to follow up my initial push with two stargate phoenix instead of colossus - expecting him to abandon hydras, which he did. Most people would go into colossus here.
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TannerMS "I'm confidence cause I'm zerg!"Registered Userregular
I only won this game due to the fact that I happened to follow up my initial push with two stargate phoenix instead of colossus - expecting him to abandon hydras, which he did. Most people would go into colossus here.
There we agree. I just think they're too randomly GOOD.
On another note, I'm starting to think that swarm hosts have a very distinct window in which they are useful in ZvP, but the moment it closes you need to sacrifice and replace them. I keep seeing a lot of games where players are unable to reinforce fast enough after a good protoss composition invalidates their offensive potential. Then, as the game gets later and later, their lack of mobility becomes a huge issue for defense.
I'm finding nydus helps my hosts a TON, especially on large maps. Put them a bit farther back to allow time to run to them. Especially when toss has a third separate from its main. Go in one expo, pop swarm, walk back to nydus, come out at other end of the base, send hosts to other expo.
It works well with hydras since they can nydus along. Have overseers standing by the nydus to snipe observers.
The entire point of hosts is to wear the opponent down over time. By hitting multiple sides it puts all the pressure on P, while you drone / expand and get a sick bank. Send some randomqueue some random lings to another part of his base for sick multi prongs.
So yeah, nydus. You just have to survive a 2 base all in.
I'm finding nydus helps my hosts a TON, especially on large maps. Put them a bit farther back to allow time to run to them. Especially when toss has a third separate from its main. Go in one expo, pop swarm, walk back to nydus, come out at other end of the base, send hosts to other expo.
I've found Nydus has a big indirect benefit when going Swarm Hosts as well; they minimise the impact of the non-intuitive burrow / unburrow defaults with a mixed group of Swarm hosts. Hosts in the nydus are in 'transition' so don't get affected by burrow commands.
So you really have only two states of Swarm hosts;
1) 'In transit' in the Nydus
2) Out of the Nydus, burrowed and rallied.
Blurgh, so many of you making jokes and no one even mentioned the Dhalation. You lot disgust me.
One man understood the shifting patterns of the meta game. This was Dhal, the last great scientist of the WoL.
The mathematics of protosshistory enabled Dhal to predict the collapse of the Dominion and the onset of an era
of zerg domination...and war.
To restore protoss, to it's place of the most OP race ever, in the shortest possible time, Dhal set up two 'Dhalations'.
The first was established on the Penny-arcade sc2 forums in the full daylight (or Dhallight) of publicity. But the second?
The second was established at the other end of the world. It took shape behind a veil of strange time zones and wildlife
that killed for sport. This seething empire was dubbed...Dhalstralia.
And yet for all his foresight, he could not have predicted the greatest threat that the Dhalations would face - the Mule.
@kedinik: This is the most awesome response ever seen in these forums.
No Protoss players were underpowered during this post.
hmm well i bought hots this afternoon and played 14 games like the lazy foreigner i am, 11 tvt, 2 tvp and finally got 1 tvz as my last game. they were only unranked games though, i started losing when it put me up against plat players, i dont know any bo's, good army comps n shit yet.
yeah thats kinda what I meant. Have everything in the UI off by default except the minimap, and bring up bits at a time to talk about them.
I'd consider getting rid of the minimap too and put it on the production team to get the camera focused on the right spots and the right time, or use picture-in-picture as necessary. Logistically speaking, such a UI would require multiple observers --- one maneuvering around the screen with the regular UI and one following that observer with the minimalistic UI --- but it isn't impossible.
Oh man, I just played against some barcode Terran who played super passively up to around the time he was taking a 4th. By then, I'd teched to ultra/ling/festor and tried to break him but failed. In the process, he built a huge amount of marauders and had a few tanks. When he countered, I tech switched to 27 mutas. He took out 1 of my 5 bases, but I was able to wipe his marauder/medivac army and keep him in his base with 0-0 mutas against his 3-2 bio for a while. I also keep running lings to his attempt at a 5th. I slowly allowed him to pick the mutas off as I was harassing (and killed over half his SCVs) and replaced the supply with ultras again while re-saturating and taking a 6th.
Eventually he pushed with nearly pure marine, then I flanked him with 9 ultras and some lings and pushed his face in.
He then proceeded to BM the shit out of me after the game, complaining that Zerg was OP and that Terran was his offrace, etc etc. His language got pretty colorful so I eventually reported him.
I think that's a nice way to end my matches for the day.
Oh man, I just played against some barcode Terran who played super passively up to around the time he was taking a 4th. By then, I'd teched to ultra/ling/festor and tried to break him but failed. In the process, he built a huge amount of marauders and had a few tanks. When he countered, I tech switched to 27 mutas. He took out 1 of my 5 bases, but I was able to wipe his marauder/medivac army and keep him in his base with 0-0 mutas against his 3-2 bio for a while. I also keep running lings to his attempt at a 5th. I slowly allowed him to pick the mutas off as I was harassing (and killed over half his SCVs) and replaced the supply with ultras again while re-saturating and taking a 6th.
Eventually he pushed with nearly pure marine, then I flanked him with 9 ultras and some lings and pushed his face in.
He then proceeded to BM the shit out of me after the game, complaining that Zerg was OP and that Terran was his offrace, etc etc. His language got pretty colorful so I eventually reported him.
I think that's a nice way to end my matches for the day.
You didn't take screencaps of the BM? That's BM, man.
Are you routinely being matched against platinum players? Cause that's the best way to tell if you're about to be promoted. Score and ladder position really don't mean that much.
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ChaosHatHop, hop, hop, HA!Trick of the lightRegistered Userregular
Are you routinely being matched against platinum players? Cause that's the best way to tell if you're about to be promoted. Score and ladder position really don't mean that much.
No, and honestly I'd rather probably be gold. I'd rather have more time to practice strategies in a safe environment instead of just coasting on my mechanics for a while.
Just sometimes you think you might get something neat and even though you didn't really want it it would have been nice to have. =(
All I do is ling/bling/muta in every matchup. I might try to do more roach/hydra stuff and let games go towards the end so I have a chance to play with vipers/swarm hosts/ultras/infestors.
I am going to need A LOT of testing help tonight if people are around. In probably 6 or 7 hours from now. Will really need at least 3 or 4 people (including myself) to test things properly.
At one point I have a massive food advantage when I strike his dudes but my composition seems sub par and I probably dealt with the colossus on the high ground poorly.
I float a lot of minerals all the time. My primary limitations seem to be gas, and then larvae. Should I just constantly be building zerglings and suiciding them? Building macro hatches? Building macro hatches seems like a bandaid though unless, again, I'm just supposed to be making lings constantly and just running them into dudes.
Towards the end game, it feels like I have composition problems. I'm actually not sure why I built mutas. Habit I think. My intent was to go roach/hydra/viper but I got sidetracked along the way and built all the mutas. Another problem I have is dividing the gas. When I have mutas out on the field I tend to just sink all my gas into mutas, and then use remaining larva to make lings. Is that right? Should I be making banelings? What is a good way to divide gas among roaches and hydras? Should I have even numbers?
Anything else you see. I'm aware my creep spread could be much better, and the macroing issue is noted above.
I also probably need to know more build orders and what are good compositions. I don't have any idea what to build when versus what.
At one point I have a massive food advantage when I strike his dudes but my composition seems sub par and I probably dealt with the colossus on the high ground poorly.
I float a lot of minerals all the time. My primary limitations seem to be gas, and then larvae. Should I just constantly be building zerglings and suiciding them? Building macro hatches? Building macro hatches seems like a bandaid though unless, again, I'm just supposed to be making lings constantly and just running them into dudes.
Towards the end game, it feels like I have composition problems. I'm actually not sure why I built mutas. Habit I think. My intent was to go roach/hydra/viper but I got sidetracked along the way and built all the mutas. Another problem I have is dividing the gas. When I have mutas out on the field I tend to just sink all my gas into mutas, and then use remaining larva to make lings. Is that right? Should I be making banelings? What is a good way to divide gas among roaches and hydras? Should I have even numbers?
Anything else you see. I'm aware my creep spread could be much better, and the macroing issue is noted above.
I also probably need to know more build orders and what are good compositions. I don't have any idea what to build when versus what.
I can't watch the video cause I'm at work but I've been having a lot of success against P with roach-hydra. At about 8:30 in the game I just start pumping out roaches and hydras for a minute or two. If I think the protoss is building immortal/sentry zealot, I lean harder on the hydras and only build enough roaches to slow down the zealots. If there's no immortals but a lot of stalkers, I go half and half. Then when I spot the protoss taking his third, I pressure it immediately. If I deny it, I've pretty much won outright. If not, I back up and tech, get my fourth and fifth bases grabbing gas immediately, then I build corrupters to handle the collosi protoss always seems to build when they see the hydras. Then I pressure again at around 14. If I deny the 3rd, I win. If not, I fall back and turn my corrupters into broodlords (he's probably stopped making collosi and started pumping out templars and archons). With a flock of broodlords, I can put a ton of pressure on the fourth he's no doubt trying to take or just push his main. It's been working for me great so far. No idea how well it works in higher leagues but I'm liking it in plat.
Posts
On another note, I'm starting to think that swarm hosts have a very distinct window in which they are useful in ZvP, but the moment it closes you need to sacrifice and replace them. I keep seeing a lot of games where players are unable to reinforce fast enough after a good protoss composition invalidates their offensive potential. Then, as the game gets later and later, their lack of mobility becomes a huge issue for defense.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
B.net: Kusanku
the replay is above
I only won this game due to the fact that I happened to follow up my initial push with two stargate phoenix instead of colossus - expecting him to abandon hydras, which he did. Most people would go into colossus here.
I'll be sure to watch it
Also fuck hellbats, still.
I'm finding nydus helps my hosts a TON, especially on large maps. Put them a bit farther back to allow time to run to them. Especially when toss has a third separate from its main. Go in one expo, pop swarm, walk back to nydus, come out at other end of the base, send hosts to other expo.
It works well with hydras since they can nydus along. Have overseers standing by the nydus to snipe observers.
The entire point of hosts is to wear the opponent down over time. By hitting multiple sides it puts all the pressure on P, while you drone / expand and get a sick bank. Send some randomqueue some random lings to another part of his base for sick multi prongs.
So yeah, nydus. You just have to survive a 2 base all in.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
zergology.tumblr.com/tagged/zvp
You think a little thing like an entire expansion would benefit the Zerg?
Zerg is more popular at higher levels of play and less popular at lower levels.
http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all
I've found Nydus has a big indirect benefit when going Swarm Hosts as well; they minimise the impact of the non-intuitive burrow / unburrow defaults with a mixed group of Swarm hosts. Hosts in the nydus are in 'transition' so don't get affected by burrow commands.
So you really have only two states of Swarm hosts;
1) 'In transit' in the Nydus
2) Out of the Nydus, burrowed and rallied.
@kedinik: This is the most awesome response ever seen in these forums.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Steam ID
I've been down that road, it's all 1/2 base all in plays with the, very, occasional gg against someone who can macro at diamond level.
Hate it.
If I can't see the minimap I go batshit insane.
I hate it when they hide the minimap.
And considering that you're playing Zerg, that is mid GM for any other race.
Don't encourage him :P
Totally true. I mean, hell. Dhal's got like a 70% win rate and is number 1 masters. Protoss? Game is this far away from handing him GM for free.
Eventually he pushed with nearly pure marine, then I flanked him with 9 ultras and some lings and pushed his face in.
He then proceeded to BM the shit out of me after the game, complaining that Zerg was OP and that Terran was his offrace, etc etc. His language got pretty colorful so I eventually reported him.
I think that's a nice way to end my matches for the day.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
Yesssss
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
You didn't take screencaps of the BM? That's BM, man.
edit: Klontis Mire
Monthly win rates for last month according to liquipedia.
3DS Friend Code: 3110-5393-4113
Steam profile
I ask because, historically, these things have varied massively between <=Masters, GM, and pro players, and also region.
Steam ID
Are you routinely being matched against platinum players? Cause that's the best way to tell if you're about to be promoted. Score and ladder position really don't mean that much.
No, and honestly I'd rather probably be gold. I'd rather have more time to practice strategies in a safe environment instead of just coasting on my mechanics for a while.
Just sometimes you think you might get something neat and even though you didn't really want it it would have been nice to have. =(
All I do is ling/bling/muta in every matchup. I might try to do more roach/hydra stuff and let games go towards the end so I have a chance to play with vipers/swarm hosts/ultras/infestors.
B.net: Kusanku
http://drop.sc/329695
Please watch it. I have some questions.
At one point I have a massive food advantage when I strike his dudes but my composition seems sub par and I probably dealt with the colossus on the high ground poorly.
I float a lot of minerals all the time. My primary limitations seem to be gas, and then larvae. Should I just constantly be building zerglings and suiciding them? Building macro hatches? Building macro hatches seems like a bandaid though unless, again, I'm just supposed to be making lings constantly and just running them into dudes.
Towards the end game, it feels like I have composition problems. I'm actually not sure why I built mutas. Habit I think. My intent was to go roach/hydra/viper but I got sidetracked along the way and built all the mutas. Another problem I have is dividing the gas. When I have mutas out on the field I tend to just sink all my gas into mutas, and then use remaining larva to make lings. Is that right? Should I be making banelings? What is a good way to divide gas among roaches and hydras? Should I have even numbers?
Anything else you see. I'm aware my creep spread could be much better, and the macroing issue is noted above.
I also probably need to know more build orders and what are good compositions. I don't have any idea what to build when versus what.
That's always been in.
I can't watch the video cause I'm at work but I've been having a lot of success against P with roach-hydra. At about 8:30 in the game I just start pumping out roaches and hydras for a minute or two. If I think the protoss is building immortal/sentry zealot, I lean harder on the hydras and only build enough roaches to slow down the zealots. If there's no immortals but a lot of stalkers, I go half and half. Then when I spot the protoss taking his third, I pressure it immediately. If I deny it, I've pretty much won outright. If not, I back up and tech, get my fourth and fifth bases grabbing gas immediately, then I build corrupters to handle the collosi protoss always seems to build when they see the hydras. Then I pressure again at around 14. If I deny the 3rd, I win. If not, I fall back and turn my corrupters into broodlords (he's probably stopped making collosi and started pumping out templars and archons). With a flock of broodlords, I can put a ton of pressure on the fourth he's no doubt trying to take or just push his main. It's been working for me great so far. No idea how well it works in higher leagues but I'm liking it in plat.