It's one thing to look at a unit and say "producing this unit is pretty much always efficient and strong." It certainly sounds like boring design and a potential balance problem if it's true.
It's another thing to look at an ability and say there's no downside to using the ability. There is, identically, "no downside" to prismatic alignment and zealot charge aside from their cooldowns.
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
yes that is my point
a 20 second cooldown is not a meaningful penalty
I have never ever seen a medivac die because it's boost was on cooldown except when the Terran had to boost across three goddamn bases or something, or when being chased by mutalisks/phoenixes.
I have seen plenty of void rays die because their charge was baited out and it has a long cooldown.
Zealot charge has a reason for existing though, it allows zealots to stay useful later in the game. That's the problem with the medivac upgrade, to me.
@rts has GOMTV stopped using gameheart for GSTL? Or are you still making changes to it?
I am not sure, they don't really keep me in the loop. They stopped using it on Saturday last weekend because of the broodling icon issue that popped up the night before even though I fixed it instantly after I saw it. They may have now decided that it's just easier to not use GameHeart since they are forced to use the Blizzard UI tool for WCS and switching between the two can be annoying. Also, hardly anyone has noticed or complained so they have probably looked at that and feel that nobody cares so it doesn't make a difference.
To be honest GameHeart has reached a point where people have stopped talking about the good things about it and only talk about the bad things. It takes a lot of heat for problems it doesn't even cause because whenever it's in use people immediately assume all problems are related to it. Like the faster/fast game speed thing that popped up in a GSL match. They didn't even use GameHeart for GSL but the guy who discovered the problem immediately suggested it was probably related to GameHeart.
Zealot charge has a reason for existing though, it allows zealots to stay useful later in the game. That's the problem with the medivac upgrade, to me.
You would prefer for it to be researchable after armory, maybe, or you think boost-free medivacs were already great and useful at all points in a game?
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
Zealot charge has a reason for existing though, it allows zealots to stay useful later in the game. That's the problem with the medivac upgrade, to me.
You would prefer for it to be researchable after armory, maybe, or you think boost-free medivacs were already great and useful at all points in a game?
Oh and it looks like Shoutcraft is using GameHeart
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wra
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Boost medivacs are awesome and I love that they are in te game. I just think it is dumb that a medivac can boost into my base, boost around my base, and then boost out with no cost or downside.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
If medivac boost drained 1-2 energy for every distance unit it covered, that would be a nice change.
It's another thing to look at an ability and say there's no downside to using the ability. There is, identically, "no downside" to prismatic alignment and zealot charge aside from their cooldowns.
Research cost and time is a downside enough I think?
that's the problem with hellbats, is that they have no actual downside
Welcome to practically the entire terran race. Medivac boost. Why?... Why the fuck not! Energy? Fuck that! I swear they were this close to just giving the medivac base speed 4.25.
How else are they supposed to ensure that everyone knows that Terran is their favorite race?
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
+2
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
You know, I can see complaints about things like sentry/immortal or infestor/broodlord that dominated and were almost impossible to defeat in a mostly stagnant metagame for literally over a year.
But the stuff with Swarmhosts, etc. we're seeing shows us that the metagame is still very much evolving, people are still figuring out the game, and stuff isn't settled enough to actually get a real feel for balance yet. So I think everyone should chill out and stop complaining about every little perceived imbalance.
You know, I can see complaints about things like sentry/immortal or infestor/broodlord that dominated and were almost impossible to defeat in a mostly stagnant metagame for literally over a year.
But the stuff with Swarmhosts, etc. we're seeing shows us that the metagame is still very much evolving, people are still figuring out the game, and stuff isn't settled enough to actually get a real feel for balance yet. So I think everyone should chill out and stop complaining about every little perceived imbalance.
You know, I can see complaints about things like sentry/immortal or infestor/broodlord that dominated and were almost impossible to defeat in a mostly stagnant metagame for literally over a year.
But the stuff with Swarmhosts, etc. we're seeing shows us that the metagame is still very much evolving, people are still figuring out the game, and stuff isn't settled enough to actually get a real feel for balance yet. So I think everyone should chill out and stop complaining about every little perceived imbalance.
Madness!!!
"The only way to get rid of a temptation is to give into it." - Oscar Wilde
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
You know, I can see complaints about things like sentry/immortal or infestor/broodlord that dominated and were almost impossible to defeat in a mostly stagnant metagame for literally over a year.
But the stuff with Swarmhosts, etc. we're seeing shows us that the metagame is still very much evolving, people are still figuring out the game, and stuff isn't settled enough to actually get a real feel for balance yet. So I think everyone should chill out and stop complaining about every little perceived imbalance.
You know, I can see complaints about things like sentry/immortal or infestor/broodlord that dominated and were almost impossible to defeat in a mostly stagnant metagame for literally over a year.
But the stuff with Swarmhosts, etc. we're seeing shows us that the metagame is still very much evolving, people are still figuring out the game, and stuff isn't settled enough to actually get a real feel for balance yet. So I think everyone should chill out and stop complaining about every little perceived imbalance.
how else am i supposed to spend my days
Chillin' out maxin' relaxin' all cool. And all shootin' some b-ball outside of the school.
It's one thing to look at a unit and say "producing this unit is pretty much always efficient and strong." It certainly sounds like boring design and a potential balance problem if it's true.
It's another thing to look at an ability and say there's no downside to using the ability. There is, identically, "no downside" to prismatic alignment and zealot charge aside from their cooldowns.
Medivac Boost being on cooldown is not nearly as dangerous for the Terran as Prismatic Alignment being on cooldown is for a Protoss. Baiting the Alignment and doubling back around once it runs out is a big deal in lategame matchups. Also, as a result of Boost being so good, Medivacs ARE always efficient and strong. Void Rays have pretty glaring weaknesses to go along with their incredible strengths.
Zealot charge has a significant gas cost/research time, so there is definitely a downside to it.
Eh. Not buying it. A warp prism comes in empty. If you run into a shitstorm and lose your prism. Well then you lose 200 minerals. Big whoop. If a zerg does a big drop and runs into a shitstorm, well you're out probably a quarter of your army. A warp prism is like a flying nydus where you get to custom design your drop as you're dropping based on what you see.
you lose a quarter of your army because your units are weaker in lower numbers. it's almost like you have to swarm the opponent to get anything done!
Zealot charge has a reason for existing though, it allows zealots to stay useful later in the game. That's the problem with the medivac upgrade, to me.
You would prefer for it to be researchable after armory, maybe, or you think boost-free medivacs were already great and useful at all points in a game?
The latter.
oh, have you not heard of static defense? you don't even have to move it.
terran can't win without dropping the entire game and even with speed boosts you can shut drops down with proper investment.
there's a reason that even with this unbelievable OP boost and these unbelievably OP hellbats being BOOSTED directly onto workers terran aren't running away with anything at the moment. and shit it's not like they haven't figured out how to do it, there's not much to learn.
Kid comes in and goes to the Kindle Fire tablet display. He pulls up the demo games and starts playing Plants vs Zombies. Having recently repurchased the game, I went over and watched him play to see what he'd do. By the time I get there, he has chosen his 8 plants and started playing.
I immediately noticed that he has no Sunflowers and is only collecting falling sun. I half-ashamedly broke into this speech:
"Kid, you really need to start over. You've got no Sunflowers. They provide sun, which is the backbone of your economy! You need to spend the early game planting two rows of them in a tight top to bottom formation. You can survive early Zombie rushes by using Potato Mines. The recharge on them is such that you can hold off 3 Zombies and have your economy in high gear for the midgame."
"Once the sun is rolling in, you can drop your more powerful, higher-tech plants onto the field. I'd recommend a single Snow Pea in every lane to take advantage of the slow effect. After that, get your offensive plants in place and wall up your front with Pumpkins, Wall-Nuts, or Tall-Nuts. With an adequate offense and defense created, start saving up sun for your endgame plants such as Melon-Pult and Gatling Pea."
The kid stared at me with clouded over eyes. He said, "I don't need to do that, I'm going to use this Mushroom to mind control the Zombies!"
I retorted, "But you didn't bring the Coffee Bean. Your Mushrooms will sleep during the day and be useless!"
"......oh."
A customer came to the register so I had to leave. As I left I said, "I'd start over and work on your build order kid!"
Twin-Sunflowers is like dropping Mules. So OP!
While teaching my 5-year-old how to play Plants vs Zombies, I once said, out loud, "Ignore that zombie. Drone u-er, plant more sunflowers."
Of course, she had the example of my gosu four-sunflowers-before-squash super greedy build to work from, as well.
Things DMR has learned today: The little white bars underneath those Void Rays are not there because those are hallucinations and I have an Observer with my army.
Things DMR has learned today: The little white bars underneath those Void Rays are not there because those are hallucinations and I have an Observer with my army.
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wra
It's one thing to look at a unit and say "producing this unit is pretty much always efficient and strong." It certainly sounds like boring design and a potential balance problem if it's true.
It's another thing to look at an ability and say there's no downside to using the ability. There is, identically, "no downside" to prismatic alignment and zealot charge aside from their cooldowns.
a 20 second cooldown is not a meaningful penalty
I have never ever seen a medivac die because it's boost was on cooldown except when the Terran had to boost across three goddamn bases or something, or when being chased by mutalisks/phoenixes.
I have seen plenty of void rays die because their charge was baited out and it has a long cooldown.
these games are so drawn out...
ugh...
it's like a forced macro game 99% of the time
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I've seen players hurt by the careless management of each of those abilities.
I am not sure, they don't really keep me in the loop. They stopped using it on Saturday last weekend because of the broodling icon issue that popped up the night before even though I fixed it instantly after I saw it. They may have now decided that it's just easier to not use GameHeart since they are forced to use the Blizzard UI tool for WCS and switching between the two can be annoying. Also, hardly anyone has noticed or complained so they have probably looked at that and feel that nobody cares so it doesn't make a difference.
To be honest GameHeart has reached a point where people have stopped talking about the good things about it and only talk about the bad things. It takes a lot of heat for problems it doesn't even cause because whenever it's in use people immediately assume all problems are related to it. Like the faster/fast game speed thing that popped up in a GSL match. They didn't even use GameHeart for GSL but the guy who discovered the problem immediately suggested it was probably related to GameHeart.
It's too much stress.
You would prefer for it to be researchable after armory, maybe, or you think boost-free medivacs were already great and useful at all points in a game?
Have a work party today with co-workers (note they are all 20+ years older than me).
Will do my best to convert them to what the "cool kids" are doing.
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/TotalBiscuit
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wra
The latter.
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wra
Research cost and time is a downside enough I think?
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How else are they supposed to ensure that everyone knows that Terran is their favorite race?
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
But the stuff with Swarmhosts, etc. we're seeing shows us that the metagame is still very much evolving, people are still figuring out the game, and stuff isn't settled enough to actually get a real feel for balance yet. So I think everyone should chill out and stop complaining about every little perceived imbalance.
how else am i supposed to spend my days
Madness!!!
"We believe in the people and their 'wisdom' as if there was some special secret entrance to knowledge that barred to anyone who had ever learned anything." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Crushing nerd skulls for their ladder points
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Medivac Boost being on cooldown is not nearly as dangerous for the Terran as Prismatic Alignment being on cooldown is for a Protoss. Baiting the Alignment and doubling back around once it runs out is a big deal in lategame matchups. Also, as a result of Boost being so good, Medivacs ARE always efficient and strong. Void Rays have pretty glaring weaknesses to go along with their incredible strengths.
Zealot charge has a significant gas cost/research time, so there is definitely a downside to it.
In other news, Idra is a fucking great caster
Congrats!
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
their range is a downside
you lose a quarter of your army because your units are weaker in lower numbers. it's almost like you have to swarm the opponent to get anything done!
oh, have you not heard of static defense? you don't even have to move it.
terran can't win without dropping the entire game and even with speed boosts you can shut drops down with proper investment.
there's a reason that even with this unbelievable OP boost and these unbelievably OP hellbats being BOOSTED directly onto workers terran aren't running away with anything at the moment. and shit it's not like they haven't figured out how to do it, there's not much to learn.
Shoutcraft is back up after technical difficulties. Game 4 of QXC vs Kane (2-1).
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
While teaching my 5-year-old how to play Plants vs Zombies, I once said, out loud, "Ignore that zombie. Drone u-er, plant more sunflowers."
Of course, she had the example of my gosu four-sunflowers-before-squash super greedy build to work from, as well.
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Next time I play Mig, use this to distract
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
I also thought this the first time.
B.net: Kusanku
Thankfully this time I added gases so when the Z had mutas because the push was delayed 45 seconds and I could kill it with zealot stalker immo
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
Skillrays are the light