Someone explain clearly the logic behind "there won't be a ladder because account-wide Paragon". Gesturing vaguely towards the new paragon system is not an argument.
If the point is that people will invest time in earning Paragon levels and thus won't want to give that progress up... How is that in any way different any other kind of time spent and forfeited in a ladder mode? Time that people happily threw away over and over again in D2? The idea that people are somehow fundamentally unwilling to start over is just demonstrably wrong.
I don't see any point to Ladders - if you like periodically starting from scratch, play Hardcore. Ladders were added to D2 because the economy was completely fucked and they just gave up on fixing it, which something tells me they're not eager to do this time around.
I imagine there is a chance of a ladder reset, just not a complete reset. I think how it will work is the earned exp of the previous season will get transfered to the new season. So people will still have the incentive to continue until the ladder resets.
0
Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
Someone explain clearly the logic behind "there won't be a ladder because account-wide Paragon". Gesturing vaguely towards the new paragon system is not an argument.
If the point is that people will invest time in earning Paragon levels and thus won't want to give that progress up... How is that in any way different any other kind of time spent and forfeited in a ladder mode? Time that people happily threw away over and over again in D2? The idea that people are somehow fundamentally unwilling to start over is just demonstrably wrong.
it's the timing of the announcements that make it seem unlikely
My ladder resets where from not logging in for too long. And the only reason we played ladder in the first place was because it had exclusive items. But I suppose they could add a ladder system in for people who want it, wouldn't hurt anything. Unless they added ladder only items again. Then it would just be a little annoying. But with how long it takes them to do anything it'll take years.
"For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
My gut feeling is that they won't add ladders. I'm not saying they can't or they won't. It's just that my view is that it wouldn't really fit with the way the game is at the moment.
A gear reset (if they do this - and the indication is they are) is a kind of "ladder" reset in any event. It effectively wipes out everyone's gear so they have to start again. A true ladder reset would need to have no access to the RMAH. Otherwise those of us with a fair whack of Blizzbucks or Paypal funds are not actually reset.
I've been following blue posts pretty often since the announcement of the X-pac, because I've been intently interested in when Loot 2.0 drops, and have found no such posts. But I went to poke through le recap just to be sure. Seems the same, with this still being what we know:
Posted by Grimiku
We want to implement a lot of the new systems and features in a pre-expansion patch for free. That should include Paragon 2.0, Loot 2.0, Loot Runs, and Nephalem Trials. For now, you'll need to purchase the expansion to play as the Crusader, explore Act V, unlock the Mystic, and level up to 70. These details may change as development moves along, but we want some of the core gameplay improvements to be available for everyone.
So please, if you have some sort of information that is not yet widely known, please provide your citation to prove that it's not just speculation.
Surely not as concrete as you'd like, but it does suggest that Loot 2.0 will be hitting at about the same time as the expansion.
Had a feeling the item revamp was going to be held until the expansion. Just solidifies my choice in not buying it. 2.0 was their chance at rebuilding the community by showing
they might actually know how/what to fix.
0
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
I've been following blue posts pretty often since the announcement of the X-pac, because I've been intently interested in when Loot 2.0 drops, and have found no such posts. But I went to poke through le recap just to be sure. Seems the same, with this still being what we know:
Posted by Grimiku
We want to implement a lot of the new systems and features in a pre-expansion patch for free. That should include Paragon 2.0, Loot 2.0, Loot Runs, and Nephalem Trials. For now, you'll need to purchase the expansion to play as the Crusader, explore Act V, unlock the Mystic, and level up to 70. These details may change as development moves along, but we want some of the core gameplay improvements to be available for everyone.
So please, if you have some sort of information that is not yet widely known, please provide your citation to prove that it's not just speculation.
Surely not as concrete as you'd like, but it does suggest that Loot 2.0 will be hitting at about the same time as the expansion.
Had a feeling the item revamp was going to be held until the expansion. Just solidifies my choice in not buying it. 2.0 was their chance at rebuilding the community by showing
they might actually know how/what to fix.
Well, they decided to show that they know with the console version, which based on early impressions has a lot of great loot that you accumulate pretty fast.
0
Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
you're not going to buy the expansion because they're releasing a patch closely tied to the expansion close to the expansion?
I am looking forward to Tuesday not because I'm going to buy the console version but I want to watch people on twitch do inferno and see how often legendaries drop. I also want to see the new items. There's already some leaked photos of legendaries that are straight up better than the PC version. Items worth 2 billion gold are not that rare on the console version.
0
Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
oh really, they buffed the legendaries themselves? interesting
you're not going to buy the expansion because they're releasing a patch closely tied to the expansion close to the expansion?
You cant really make an expansion that gives 10 more levels without a loot revamp/gear reset anyway. The way "2.0" was represented, it was going to fix items in the vanilla game. That's clearly not the case anymore,
so they pushed it back to encourage people to buy the expansion, which is pointless because the expansion itself is a revamp.
Edit: and by fix items in vanilla I dont mean in a "every item is amazing" two weeks before RoS.
Jack.sk on
+1
Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
i'm not seeing how that's a reason not to buy the expansion
it seems like a reason to not play d3 before loot 2.0 is out
i'm not seeing how that's a reason not to buy the expansion
it seems like a reason to not play d3 before loot 2.0 is out
It's the principle. I don't quite share the same sentiment, but I understand where he's coming from and I don't fault him. Blizzard's done a good job of pissing away a lot of good will from fans of the Diablo franchise. The work they've done on the game since release has done work to regain that confidence, but a lot of the shitty design decisions are fundamental parts of the game (such as the current loot situation), and it's going to take a LOT of work to regain that trust for some people.
I love everything Blizzard's been doing with the game since it came out, but in my mind it still doesn't change that they made a lot of shitty initial decisions, despite months of fan feedback prior to release and during beta. Everything they've done since release has been damage control, and when you're trying to put out fires time is of the essence. If one were so jaded by Blizzard's past actions, holding off on loot 2.0 to release with an expansion (which who knows how many months away that actually is), especially while the system is being implemented in a console version which comes out in short order, may seem a bit like a profit motivation, rather than a fan motivation.
Again, I don't fully agree with him, because I know I'll buy the expansion regardless, but I also don't blame him for his cynicism.
Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
0
Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
it just seems like you're not looking out for your own best interest
it sounds like you'll enjoy the expansion, but you're hung up on the principle of it. kind of cutting of your nose to spite your face there
Decided to follow Matz lead and sell my really good gear while the selling is good.
Item name Ice Climbers
Time of transaction 01 Sep 2013 10:04 PM PDT
Sale price $15.00
Transaction fee $1.00
Applicable taxes $0.00
Your proceeds $14.00
Paid 180m gold for those the night before the AH gold dupe bug.
Item name Mempo of Twilight
Time of transaction 01 Sep 2013 08:57 PM PDT
Sale price $35.00
Transaction fee $1.00
Applicable taxes $0.00
Your proceeds $34.00
And paid 1.3b for that the day after the gold dupe bug. At current gold prices, that's a slight loss, if gold works it's way back to the floor, then it's a pretty nice profit.
Got some other loot to sell off, here's to hoping!
I'll buy some cheap stuff and just rock that when the expansion hits.
If you are reading this add me.
D3: HexDex#1281, PSN: DireOtter, Live: DireOtter
+2
darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
it just seems like you're not looking out for your own best interest
it sounds like you'll enjoy the expansion, but you're hung up on the principle of it. kind of cutting of your nose to spite your face there
Me personally, I don't have a dog in this fight at the moment. I haven't played in quite some time as Marvel Heroes is doing a good job of scratching my ARPG itch. I haven't decided whether I'll come back to D3 until 2.0 or Xpack. I got to play a bit of the Xpack and Gamescom and the tone and mood definitely felt great, so I have high hopes for this expansion. If Loot 2.0 is released significantly sooner than the Xpack, I might come back earlier to check it out.
Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
0
Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
it just seems like you're not looking out for your own best interest
it sounds like you'll enjoy the expansion, but you're hung up on the principle of it. kind of cutting of your nose to spite your face there
Thats one way to look at it. When they publicly apologize for a game twice, but dont actually fix any of the core issues until it's time to shell out more $$$, that says alot to me.
I feel like buying the expansion is saying "well you really fucked up the game, but I'll pay you to fix it".
However, if I can sell my gear for RL $$$ and use that to pay for it, totally would.
They fixed plenty of problems with the game in the patches. They fixed useless legendaries, added paragon levels and monster power. They added crafting so it became actually worthwhile for people to craft. They made fury/spirit spenders and WD pets worthwhile, along with a bunch of other skill tweaks. I'm sure you could find some things that they haven't done but saying they haven't fixed anything before the expansion is flat out wrong.
Profile -> Signature Settings -> Hide signatures always. Then you don't have to read this worthless text anymore.
They fixed plenty of problems with the game in the patches. They fixed useless legendaries, added paragon levels and monster power. They added crafting so it became actually worthwhile for people to craft. They made fury/spirit spenders and WD pets worthwhile, along with a bunch of other skill tweaks. I'm sure you could find some things that they haven't done but saying they haven't fixed anything before the expansion is flat out wrong.
Most definitely.
I still feel like holding loot 2.0 until the expansion is cheesy. If it can be ready now, it should be released now. Give the people who've actually stuck with the game without an expansion something to play with until the expansion drops. It might also, I don't know, give them some time to test and tweak it with an actual working economy...and with a "reset" right around the corner to fall back on too (since a level cap bump will make level 60 gear obsolete for most players pretty quickly).
+3
Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
i don't think loot 2.0 is ready now
it's tied so closely to the expansion features it can't possibly be ready yet
Travis Day made his itemization blog post outlining a lot of what's going into the Loot 2.0 patch (minus loot runs/maps) back in March. Presumably they've been working on it for at least that long. You'd kinda hope they'd be nearing completion of Loot 2.0 by now, but this is Blizzard we're talking about.
I'm such a schmuck when it comes to this. As much as I would like to claim that needlessly delaying Loot 2.0 just to line it up with the expansion would be a bad move and kill interest for me, I know that I'll be right there on release day, downloading away. And Blizzard knows it, too.
They fixed plenty of problems with the game in the patches. They fixed useless legendaries, added paragon levels and monster power. They added crafting so it became actually worthwhile for people to craft. They made fury/spirit spenders and WD pets worthwhile, along with a bunch of other skill tweaks. I'm sure you could find some things that they haven't done but saying they haven't fixed anything before the expansion is flat out wrong.
Most definitely.
I still feel like holding loot 2.0 until the expansion is cheesy. If it can be ready now, it should be released now. Give the people who've actually stuck with the game without an expansion something to play with until the expansion drops. It might also, I don't know, give them some time to test and tweak it with an actual working economy...and with a "reset" right around the corner to fall back on too (since a level cap bump will make level 60 gear obsolete for most players pretty quickly).
Where did you ever get the idea that it's ready now? They only revealed it a couple weeks ago and we still don't know all the details. Yes they probably could have finished it faster by taking all the resources off the expansion, but that's just not realistic. As far as I'm concerned, they've done enough to make up for the troubled launch, and at this point I'm perfectly happy just not playing Diablo 3 until they have the complete package to get me back into it.
+1
Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
Travis Day made his itemization blog post outlining a lot of what's going into the Loot 2.0 patch (minus loot runs/maps) back in March. Presumably they've been working on it for at least that long. You'd kinda hope they'd be nearing completion of Loot 2.0 by now, but this is Blizzard we're talking about.
it probably would be if it wasn't tying into the other systems they're changing
like from the items we saw, stats looked rebalanced wrt paragon 2.0 and skill changes
I didn't mean to imply it was actually ready right this moment. Obviously it isn't.
I do suspect it could have been, and that instead development priorities changed since they planned to drop it closer to or with the expansion.
Which is why I said "if it can be ready now," rather than "if it is ready now." But I do understand that wasn't a really clear way to say it.
EDIT: That does make sense if parts of it tie into the expansion changes. I still wish they could have at least made some deeper improvements as time went by.
mcdermott on
+1
Big Red Tiebeautiful clydesdale style feettoo hot to trotRegistered Userregular
like i think the legendary affix changes have been ongoing, as well as some stat changes
but the general balancing i think is reliant on the expansion
I wonder if there even will be a patch between now and the expansion. What would they do? Skill balances? Add in a gold sink? Or just let the bloated economy shamble on till release day?
Posts
If the point is that people will invest time in earning Paragon levels and thus won't want to give that progress up... How is that in any way different any other kind of time spent and forfeited in a ladder mode? Time that people happily threw away over and over again in D2? The idea that people are somehow fundamentally unwilling to start over is just demonstrably wrong.
also RMAH
A gear reset (if they do this - and the indication is they are) is a kind of "ladder" reset in any event. It effectively wipes out everyone's gear so they have to start again. A true ladder reset would need to have no access to the RMAH. Otherwise those of us with a fair whack of Blizzbucks or Paypal funds are not actually reset.
Lose: The opposite of win
Loose: Your mum
in d2 it had exclusive items and runewords which was bs
the idea is that it gives you a fresh start whenever the ladder resets, and an economy reset
imo ladders wouldnt be a bad idea on d3 i just dont think they're going to do it
Had a feeling the item revamp was going to be held until the expansion. Just solidifies my choice in not buying it. 2.0 was their chance at rebuilding the community by showing
they might actually know how/what to fix.
Well, they decided to show that they know with the console version, which based on early impressions has a lot of great loot that you accumulate pretty fast.
You cant really make an expansion that gives 10 more levels without a loot revamp/gear reset anyway. The way "2.0" was represented, it was going to fix items in the vanilla game. That's clearly not the case anymore,
so they pushed it back to encourage people to buy the expansion, which is pointless because the expansion itself is a revamp.
Edit: and by fix items in vanilla I dont mean in a "every item is amazing" two weeks before RoS.
it seems like a reason to not play d3 before loot 2.0 is out
It's the principle. I don't quite share the same sentiment, but I understand where he's coming from and I don't fault him. Blizzard's done a good job of pissing away a lot of good will from fans of the Diablo franchise. The work they've done on the game since release has done work to regain that confidence, but a lot of the shitty design decisions are fundamental parts of the game (such as the current loot situation), and it's going to take a LOT of work to regain that trust for some people.
I love everything Blizzard's been doing with the game since it came out, but in my mind it still doesn't change that they made a lot of shitty initial decisions, despite months of fan feedback prior to release and during beta. Everything they've done since release has been damage control, and when you're trying to put out fires time is of the essence. If one were so jaded by Blizzard's past actions, holding off on loot 2.0 to release with an expansion (which who knows how many months away that actually is), especially while the system is being implemented in a console version which comes out in short order, may seem a bit like a profit motivation, rather than a fan motivation.
Again, I don't fully agree with him, because I know I'll buy the expansion regardless, but I also don't blame him for his cynicism.
it sounds like you'll enjoy the expansion, but you're hung up on the principle of it. kind of cutting of your nose to spite your face there
Item name Ice Climbers
Time of transaction 01 Sep 2013 10:04 PM PDT
Sale price $15.00
Transaction fee $1.00
Applicable taxes $0.00
Your proceeds $14.00
Paid 180m gold for those the night before the AH gold dupe bug.
Item name Mempo of Twilight
Time of transaction 01 Sep 2013 08:57 PM PDT
Sale price $35.00
Transaction fee $1.00
Applicable taxes $0.00
Your proceeds $34.00
And paid 1.3b for that the day after the gold dupe bug. At current gold prices, that's a slight loss, if gold works it's way back to the floor, then it's a pretty nice profit.
Got some other loot to sell off, here's to hoping!
I'll buy some cheap stuff and just rock that when the expansion hits.
D3: HexDex#1281, PSN: DireOtter, Live: DireOtter
Me personally, I don't have a dog in this fight at the moment. I haven't played in quite some time as Marvel Heroes is doing a good job of scratching my ARPG itch. I haven't decided whether I'll come back to D3 until 2.0 or Xpack. I got to play a bit of the Xpack and Gamescom and the tone and mood definitely felt great, so I have high hopes for this expansion. If Loot 2.0 is released significantly sooner than the Xpack, I might come back earlier to check it out.
Lose: The opposite of win
Loose: Your mum
Did that Minion drop a Legendary in celebration? Because the next killed enemy so should every time. Loot 2.0 better include that.
Thats one way to look at it. When they publicly apologize for a game twice, but dont actually fix any of the core issues until it's time to shell out more $$$, that says alot to me.
I feel like buying the expansion is saying "well you really fucked up the game, but I'll pay you to fix it".
However, if I can sell my gear for RL $$$ and use that to pay for it, totally would.
FTFY
― Marcus Aurelius
Path of Exile: themightypuck
Most definitely.
I still feel like holding loot 2.0 until the expansion is cheesy. If it can be ready now, it should be released now. Give the people who've actually stuck with the game without an expansion something to play with until the expansion drops. It might also, I don't know, give them some time to test and tweak it with an actual working economy...and with a "reset" right around the corner to fall back on too (since a level cap bump will make level 60 gear obsolete for most players pretty quickly).
it's tied so closely to the expansion features it can't possibly be ready yet
I'm such a schmuck when it comes to this. As much as I would like to claim that needlessly delaying Loot 2.0 just to line it up with the expansion would be a bad move and kill interest for me, I know that I'll be right there on release day, downloading away. And Blizzard knows it, too.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
Where did you ever get the idea that it's ready now? They only revealed it a couple weeks ago and we still don't know all the details. Yes they probably could have finished it faster by taking all the resources off the expansion, but that's just not realistic. As far as I'm concerned, they've done enough to make up for the troubled launch, and at this point I'm perfectly happy just not playing Diablo 3 until they have the complete package to get me back into it.
like from the items we saw, stats looked rebalanced wrt paragon 2.0 and skill changes
I do suspect it could have been, and that instead development priorities changed since they planned to drop it closer to or with the expansion.
Which is why I said "if it can be ready now," rather than "if it is ready now." But I do understand that wasn't a really clear way to say it.
EDIT: That does make sense if parts of it tie into the expansion changes. I still wish they could have at least made some deeper improvements as time went by.
but the general balancing i think is reliant on the expansion
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
at most we'd get the patch a week or two before the expansion
also a beta test sometime this year but...