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[Programming] Thread: Turning off the LAMP stack for mood lighting

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    DelmainDelmain Registered User regular
    Yeah, all my college required in terms of languages was C, Java, and assembly.

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    gavindelgavindel The reason all your software is brokenRegistered User regular
    See also: Guilt trip.

    "These poor, poor, poor companies can only find fresh graduates who know these six programming languages! Its a real travesty, I tell you, that you're not all graduating with 5 years of Ada."

    Book - Royal road - Free! Seraphim === TTRPG - Wuxia - Free! Seln Alora
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    mightyjongyomightyjongyo Sour Crrm East Bay, CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Still, I'm wondering if job people in the area are massively inflating their problems.

    I still see a lot of C++ posts but are looking for people with weirdly specific skill sets.

    I don't typically see things like "experience in Qt" but more like "Experience building your own UI library from scratch, mathlab from 1988, cobol" instead.

    You know, the whole "Well shit it's easier to just import people because clearly we have a labor shortage since I can't find anyone with 8 years of experience willing to work for $4/hr".

    Hm, I actually still see plenty of c++ posts that aren't that specific - my current job, for example. I just saw a posting on Sony's website that was looking for a generic "knows c++" as well. That said they are vastly outnumbered by web stuff - databases, ruby, python, etc.

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    Jimmy KingJimmy King Registered User regular
    At my community college the C++ (or is it C? I don't remember offhand) is optional. The CS curriculum here is mostly java and one class that also uses a watered down assembly. The real 4 year school that most CS students intend to transfer to after this one does require classes which use C, though.

    One of my friends in Minnesota is also working on his CS degree. I believe he IS at a 4 year school and not a community college and he was recently learning linked lists using java... which is obviously totally wrong as fuck. I told him to take everything he's done in that class and go do it in C if he wants to actually understand it.

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    Jimmy KingJimmy King Registered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Still, I'm wondering if job people in the area are massively inflating their problems.

    I still see a lot of C++ posts but are looking for people with weirdly specific skill sets.

    I don't typically see things like "experience in Qt" but more like "Experience building your own UI library from scratch, mathlab from 1988, cobol" instead.

    You know, the whole "Well shit it's easier to just import people because clearly we have a labor shortage since I can't find anyone with 8 years of experience willing to work for $4/hr".
    I know here in Richmond most of the C and C++ jobs come from just a few companies - one that does GIS stuff, one that does embedded systems/robotics stuff, and one that does high performance, performance sensitive telecom and messaging systems.

    The last of those definitely has some similarities to your last statement. I know a couple of ex employees and interviewed there myself once. a "junior" C developer needed 5+ years experience writing mission critical, high performance, latency sensitive (where milliseconds matter) C code. All for the amazing salary of about half what I'm making right now doing Python and JS stuff.

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    What's funny is telcoms can afford to drop $MONEY on developers because they can soak up costs through the fed for infrastructure.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    We covered C++ in my courses, but manual memory management was not covered in depth at all.

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    Jimmy KingJimmy King Registered User regular
    Well, that place isn't specifically a telecom. They actually develop stuff that they sell to carriers, among other things. The company is Acision. They still probably have plenty of money to spend if they weren't dicks.

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    gavindel wrote: »
    See also: Guilt trip.

    "These poor, poor, poor companies can only find fresh graduates who know these six programming languages! Its a real travesty, I tell you, that you're not all graduating with 5 years of Ada."

    Yeah a lot of jobs want you to know the skill before you even bother applying. If they have to invest in training, fuck off.

    They're trying to marginalize their costs in terms of turnover. So, you know the place is bad if you see shit like that. Worst part of turnover is the training costs you've already sunk into an employee. So, an okay employee that's been there for 3 years is worse than losing a better employee that's been there for a week or two.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    EndEnd Registered User regular
    I think we had C++ as a course, but I don't remember much of it other than some of the time we spent on the STL

    I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
    zaleiria-by-lexxy-sig.jpg
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    ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    Man.

    I am feeling pretty l33t hacker this week.

    Developing an embedded application - have the ARM on the board loading both its kernel and rootfs from my Linux VM (running on my main machine), with additional firmware for an FPGA being built and debugged on a second physical computer that I'm RDPing into, and a four channel oscilloscope hooked up to key debugging blinkenlights.

    Most recent issue resolved: Measured and eliminated a timing issue between the FPGA and the ARM where signals were asserting/deasserting too quickly (~5-7ns too quick).

    Whooooooooooooo

    Using C++ for the apps on the ARM. Apart from the kernel driver. Just C there, baby.

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
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    KambingKambing Registered User regular
    Learning C++ in a typical undergraduate CS curriculum? One of my pet peeves that I'm actively working on!

    The worst thing I see with a lot of programs is that they talk about systems programming in the context of C++ because "it has objects, so it is easier to transition to if you start with Java or Python". Nothing could be further from the truth. Furthermore, few academics have an appreciation for the difficulties and nuances of manual memory management, let alone the concerns unique to C++ and its semantics. The end result is that when people teach C++ in a class, it's usually some bastardized form of it that resembles either (1) resembles Java and loses all of the real benefits of manual memory management (not lifetime management, but explicit layout management) or (2) resembles C and loses all of the pay-as-you-go abstraction benefits that C++ provides.

    My todo list includes an (online) textbook on systems programming in C++ as I've had to regurgitate class notes on the subject multiple times in various contexts, but that is currently shelved along with all the other side projects I'd like to get done. =(

    @TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
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    The AnonymousThe Anonymous Uh, uh, uhhhhhh... Uh, uh.Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    It would seem Geth lacks an appreciation for C++ and manual memory management. That is rather...odd.

    The Anonymous on
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    KambingKambing Registered User regular
    He just wants to make sure this shit happens. He knows how important it is. >_<

    @TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
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    MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    <button id='button'>Hide</button>
    <script>
            $('#button').hide().on('click',null,function(){
                $('#button').hide();
            });
    </script>
    
    Should hide the button, as well as making it hide itself whenever it's clicked, should it be made visible.. instead, it hides the button, which later does nothing. In fact, nothing I assign the button works except alert.
    Edit: Hi, my name is MadPoet and I nest buttons inside spans that have onclick= set.
    8171280099_fb36f3b722_m.jpg

    Madpoet on
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    Jimmy KingJimmy King Registered User regular
    The .on('click', blah blah) is what's not working? You generally can't bind to a hidden element. You need to do the .on() on an element which is visible, if I'm understanding what is going wrong for you properly.

    So something like
    $('#button').hide();
    $('body').on('click', '#button', function () {
        $('#button').hide();
    });
    

    or it may work to just bind first, then hide the button. I can't remember if it'll lose its binding when it gets hidden or not.

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    DaedalusDaedalus Registered User regular
    My college taught the intro course in Java and then the sophomore data structures course in C++ and you were expected to learn C++ during the intervening summer on your own.

    Which meant that I and the like two other people that already knew C++ spent most of that semester helping the rest of the class keep up.

    In any case, C++ is a detestable pile of horseshit but it certainly has made me a good chunk of money over the past few years so I suppose I can't complain too hard.

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    MadpoetMadpoet Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Jimmy King wrote: »
    The .on('click', blah blah) is what's not working? You generally can't bind to a hidden element. You need to do the .on() on an element which is visible, if I'm understanding what is going wrong for you properly.

    So something like
    $('#button').hide();
    $('body').on('click', '#button', function () {
        $('#button').hide();
    });
    

    or it may work to just bind first, then hide the button. I can't remember if it'll lose its binding when it gets hidden or not.

    Works just fine as I wrote it there, the issue wound up being that it was really:
        <span onclick="$('#button').show()">
        <button id='button'>Hide</button>
        </span><!-- I'm supposed to be closed already -->
        <script>
        $('#button').hide().on('click',null,function(){
        $('#button').hide();
        });
        </script>
    

    And the span was triggering after the button.

    Madpoet on
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    InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    Event bubbling! :rotate:

    OrokosPA.png
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    BarrakkethBarrakketh Registered User regular
    Infidel wrote: »
    Event bubbling! :rotate:
    jQuery's event objects provide the stopPropogation method when you want to keep the event from bubbling up the DOM tree.

    Rollers are red, chargers are blue....omae wa mou shindeiru
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    DehumanizedDehumanized Registered User regular
    I've been doing most of my professional work in C#, and I've been doing most of my personal projects in LPC, which is a C-like language that pretty much handles memory on its own, so it's not C-like in the best way.

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    Alistair HuttonAlistair Hutton Dr EdinburghRegistered User regular
    Tales from XML

    We have to deal with a huge XML file from, uh, Snational Snail, that contains information about every single train station in the country and the services it provides. It's obvious that they started out with great intentions, but it's now a giant clusterfuck of horribleness that means we have to have over 500 lines of XSL to parse it into something usable.

    Here's some choice bits:
       <Address>
          <PostalAddress>
            <add:A_5LineAddress>
              <add:Line>X ROAD</add:Line>
              <add:Line>-</add:Line>
              <add:PostCode>POST CODE</add:PostCode>
            </add:A_5LineAddress>
          </PostalAddress>
        </Address>
    
    Nice 5 line address there.
    <FartOffice>
            <com:Open>
              <com:DayAndTimeAvailability>
                <com:DayTypes>
                  <com:MondayToFriday />
                </com:DayTypes>
                <com:OpeningHours>
                  <com:OpenPeriod>
                    <com:StartTime>06:30:00.000Z</com:StartTime>
                    <com:EndTime>10:00:00.000Z</com:EndTime>
                  </com:OpenPeriod>
                </com:OpeningHours>
              </com:DayAndTimeAvailability>
              <com:DayAndTimeAvailability>
                <com:DayTypes>
                  <com:Saturday />
                </com:DayTypes>
                <com:OpeningHours>
                  <com:OpenPeriod>
                    <com:StartTime>08:00:00.000Z</com:StartTime>
                    <com:EndTime>12:00:00.000Z</com:EndTime>
                  </com:OpenPeriod>
                </com:OpeningHours>
              </com:DayAndTimeAvailability>
              <com:DayAndTimeAvailability>
                <com:DayTypes>
                  <com:Sunday />
                </com:DayTypes>
                <com:OpeningHours>
                  <com:Unavailable />
                </com:OpeningHours>
              </com:DayAndTimeAvailability>
            </com:Open>
          </FartOffice>
    
    100 lines of XSL to take into account every single permeation of this one block. There's MondayToFriday, TuesdayToFriday, WednesdayToFriday, ThursdayToFriday, TuesdayToThursday, etc..

    In the same section there's two different ways to say whether something is true or false:
          <PoopyButts>false</PoopyButts>
          <BumFlaps>
            <com:Available>false</com:Available>
          </BumFlaps>
    

    They also randomly update, rename and change the way fields behave without telling us. So suddenly our station information is wildly out of date and the only way to get it working again is trawl through this giant XML file, figure out what's changed since last time and update our XSL, import scripts and everything else.

    The amount of arguments about storing data for addresses that would be used for official mailings... The phrase "but we've always done it this way" when I show them the USPS website and business standard they expect on an envelope. It's crazyness what people think goes in the address box.

    Do you want to know how addresses should be handled? There should be a lookup field for Zip/Post code. Then, if the users chooses to use that to lookup their address or not, that should populate a text area. The the user should be able to edit that text area however they damn well like. No you silly geese, do not strip out "-" or "/" from the text, do not limit the number of lines in the address. Do not assume that the rest of the country addresses apartments by flat number first then street number you idiotic aquatic fucking fowl.

    Address are right up there with datetime handling for holyshit what the fuck levels of idiocy and make work.

    I have a thoughtful and infrequently updated blog about games http://whatithinkaboutwhenithinkaboutgames.wordpress.com/

    I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.

    Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
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    Jimmy KingJimmy King Registered User regular
    Madpoet wrote: »
    Jimmy King wrote: »
    The .on('click', blah blah) is what's not working? You generally can't bind to a hidden element. You need to do the .on() on an element which is visible, if I'm understanding what is going wrong for you properly.

    So something like
    $('#button').hide();
    $('body').on('click', '#button', function () {
        $('#button').hide();
    });
    

    or it may work to just bind first, then hide the button. I can't remember if it'll lose its binding when it gets hidden or not.

    Works just fine as I wrote it there, the issue wound up being that it was really:
        <span onclick="$('#button').show()">
        <button id='button'>Hide</button>
        </span><!-- I'm supposed to be closed already -->
        <script>
        $('#button').hide().on('click',null,function(){
        $('#button').hide();
        });
        </script>
    

    And the span was triggering after the button.
    Ah ok, that somewhat makes sense. Without the span showing in the first post I figured that .on() after the the .hide() was behaving the same as if you tried to hide the element, then bind to it in a second statement. I'm still actually kind of surprised that's not what it does, but if it works, it works.

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Kambing wrote: »
    Learning C++ in a typical undergraduate CS curriculum? One of my pet peeves that I'm actively working on!

    The worst thing I see with a lot of programs is that they talk about systems programming in the context of C++ because "it has objects, so it is easier to transition to if you start with Java or Python". Nothing could be further from the truth. Furthermore, few academics have an appreciation for the difficulties and nuances of manual memory management, let alone the concerns unique to C++ and its semantics. The end result is that when people teach C++ in a class, it's usually some bastardized form of it that resembles either (1) resembles Java and loses all of the real benefits of manual memory management (not lifetime management, but explicit layout management) or (2) resembles C and loses all of the pay-as-you-go abstraction benefits that C++ provides.

    My todo list includes an (online) textbook on systems programming in C++ as I've had to regurgitate class notes on the subject multiple times in various contexts, but that is currently shelved along with all the other side projects I'd like to get done. =(

    Java would be easier to transition from. Python is sort of like crazy man's land in regards to programming languages.

    Seeing both Python and Java up there makes me think someone that's making the degree program is buddies with someone in corporate world where Java and Python (google's framework probably) is key to pushing shit out quickly. So they want devs with a lot of knowledge on how the architecture and build systems work so they spend less time dealing with inane shit like @urahonky and more time coding.

    The difference between a programmer and a software engineer, at least to me, is that the software engineer understand the core of programming languages as logic, and how memory works, and how to take "how memory works" and apply it to systems they've never used. Like, RISC based computers, or, integrated circuits that used mixed endian. A "programmer" is going to spend months just spinning their wheels trying to figure out what endian even really means.

    I must be atypical from people that graduated from ITT Tech, I bet, too.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    What a hardware virus scanner is inane? You're crazy bowen.

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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    Also I might be getting 16GB of RAM soon... Won't fix the processor sucking, but it would be nice to be able to RUN things.

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    I think I meant to type insane. But inane works too!

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    The good thing about changing clients in a couple weeks is that I should almost definitely get a better machine than the one I have now.

    OrokosPA.png
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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    Do you guys have any suggestions on a good, lightweight, cheap tracking tool my team can use? We'd like to be able to put all of our tasks on this site so we have an idea what we need to do and what we need to work on before x Date. We'd prefer nothing that requires a Server.

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    I'm looking forward to wrapping this building expansion up so I never have to deal with wiring like what was originally put in on this side.

    Going to totally rewire this half of the building too once that's done.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Do you guys have any suggestions on a good, lightweight, cheap tracking tool my team can use? We'd like to be able to put all of our tasks on this site so we have an idea what we need to do and what we need to work on before x Date. We'd prefer nothing that requires a Server.

    Why not build one? You need centralized don't you? That's going to require at least a database.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    urahonkyurahonky Cynical Old Man Registered User regular
    I'd love to write a quick and easy one but we don't really have the time to do that.

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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    It's been a while since I've posted much in this thread

    What I am working on: other than the day to day iPad stuff for my company

    I've been working on a game in MonoGame

    my heart was ripped out when XNA was shut down, but the MonoGame project has a ton of steam behind it and they've got almost 100% API compatibility with the 2D parts of XNA, currently working on 3D

    It takes a little monkeying, but I moved an entire codebase I started with XNA 4.0 and converted it to MonoGame without changing any code, just project structure, and I was able to move it over to VS2012/Windows 8 to boot

    XNA is still by far and away the most enriching experience I've had with a game engine, and the barebones nature of it is familiar to my days of building custom UI widgets in Flash

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    ClaymanClayman Don't be a baked potato. Be a person. Registered User regular
    urahonky wrote: »
    Do you guys have any suggestions on a good, lightweight, cheap tracking tool my team can use? We'd like to be able to put all of our tasks on this site so we have an idea what we need to do and what we need to work on before x Date. We'd prefer nothing that requires a Server.

    I've heard good things about Jira atlassian.com/software/jira/overview.

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    InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    What kind of tasks are you tracking? Specifically developer tasks? Bug fixes / QA involvement?

    OrokosPA.png
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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    Is MonoGame going to be supported on iOS, @Jasconius? That'd be swell.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    InfidelInfidel Heretic Registered User regular
    JIRA is good but costs a little bit of money and requires a lot more server setup. Java application.

    Eventum is pretty good and freely available, we use it for all of the health projects in my province and you should be able to sneak it onto a workstation with LAMP/XAMP type ease.

    OrokosPA.png
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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    Is MonoGame going to be supported on iOS, @Jasconius? That'd be swell.

    Yes. I haven't tried it but ultimately MonoGame boils everything down to SDL, which is pretty ubiquitous. SDL can run on the iPhone (that's what Angry Birds is based on)

    They also support Android, Windows 8 native apps, Windows legacy, Mac, Linux... and so on

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    bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    That's hot.

    not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
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    JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    bowen wrote: »
    That's hot.

    It's real real good. Especially if your game has simple controls.

    The thing about XNA though is you get no interface or interaction assistance.

    If you want a button, you have to write a button class. You have decide what constitutes a "click", you have to make sure the mouse is actually over the button and the button is eligible to be clicked

    if you want menus, hah aha haha haha

    editable text fields? ho hohohoohohoo

    however, if you have the grit to actually sit down and write that shit, it can be very rewarding

    I think I'm going to be publishing my very first serious open source project soon, with the UI framework I've written for MonoGame, because it's the only one I've seen that's both flexible and non-invasive

    My game is extremely menu driven, and for a while I thought about going the WPF route, but now I am glad I didn't

This discussion has been closed.