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Putting Kobe in Perspective

gundam470gundam470 Drunk GorillaCaliforniaRegistered User regular
edited March 2007 in Debate and/or Discourse
ESPN columnist Jamele Hill has written a short article entitled Putting Kobe in Perspective.

Her argument that Kobe Bryant is a better pure basketball player is a compelling one. There is no doubt that Kobe can make, and probably with much higher frequency, the same type of jaw dropping, awe-inspiring plays that made MJ into the legend he is. Couple this with the fact that he is a perpetual electee of the NBA's all defensive team, and you have to admit that that the argument bears a lot of credence.

Growing up being able to watch MJ play and watching Kobe throughout the years as the Laker fan I am, it is hard not to say that Kobe is at least as good as MJ.

But, since I am a fan of the purple and gold, I must say that I run the risk of having a biased opinion. So, if you, D&D, take the time to put Kobe in perspective, is he indeed better than Michael Jordan? Is he then greatest basketball player we have seen?

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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    I thought this would be about meat.

    That said, I'm not sure. I mean, I see what you mean, but part of what made MJ so great is that he was also a great team player.

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    ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA mod
    edited March 2007
    It's because your priorities are messed up. Get 'em straight.

    Elki on
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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    No, MJ was not a great team player. He was a dick. He knew he was better than everyone and he acted like he was.

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    mynameisguidomynameisguido Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Let's start making the Michael Jordan comparisons after he wins a few more titles, especially if he manages to win a few without a dominant center.

    Of course, thanks to his personality, he's never going to be as revered as MJ was. MJ was the perfect storm in more ways than one.

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    gundam470gundam470 Drunk Gorilla CaliforniaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Let's start making the Michael Jordan comparisons after he wins a few more titles, especially if he manages to win a few without a dominant center.

    Of course, thanks to his personality, he's never going to be as revered as MJ was. MJ was the perfect storm in more ways than one.
    From the article:
    Yesterday's NBA player certainly was more fundamentally sound, but there's no question that today's player is bigger, stronger and faster. When Jordan played, he was a singular force that could not be equaled. Jordan was guarded by the likes of John Starks and Joe Dumars, who were fine players but weren't nearly as skilled or physically imposing as LeBron, D-Wade, Tracy McGrady or even Vince Carter.

    The NBA is tougher now.

    Kobe, like Michael, is surrounded with mediocre to below-average talent, and Phoenix, Dallas and San Antonio are all better than the Utah, Portland and the Charles Barkley-led Phoenix team that Michael met in the NBA Finals.

    3 NBA titles is more than something to write home about. And we can't exactly say that Shaq could have one those titles by himself either.

    No, he doesn't have six rings; he has three. But is this actually good evidence against his greatness as a player? Shouldn't the fact that he is playing in an era where the players are arguable much tougher opponents than the same ones MJ faced even out that particular statistic?

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    deadonthestreetdeadonthestreet Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Shaq would have won the titles with Vince Carter or T-Mac or Paul Pierce.

    Kobe would not have won them with anyone but Shaq, except maybe Tim Duncan.

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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    gundam470 wrote: »
    Couple this with the fact that he is a perpetual electee of the NBA's all defensive team, and you have to admit that that the argument bears a lot of credence.
    Garbage -- Kobe fell right the fuck off the All-Defensive team once ... even if you don't follow basketball too closely you should be able to guess this ... Shaq left the squad. His All-Defensive awards were grossly overrated, and he got exposed like the matador defender that he is once he didn't have Shaq to bail him out on both ends. Never mind the fact that Jordan received similar defensive accolades with equal frequency, only in his case I'd say they were much more deserved.
    Growing up being able to watch MJ play and watching Kobe throughout the years as the Laker fan I am, it is hard not to say that Kobe is at least as good as MJ.
    Garbage -- where are the MVPs, where are the 70+ win seasons, where are the dominating playoff performances? Kobe is talented, but he isn't anywhere near approaching MJ's level.
    But, since I am a fan of the purple and gold, I must say that I run the risk of having a biased opinion. So, if you, D&D, take the time to put Kobe in perspective, is he indeed better than Michael Jordan? Is he then greatest basketball player we have seen?
    Duncan and Shaq are better. AI is better. KG is possibly better. LeBron will be better. Wade is close to his level. If T-Mac were healthy, he'd easily be on his level. Before the knee injuries Grant Hill was better (you damn right Grant Hill was better). Karl Malone was better (as much as I hate that prick). Kobe is a cold-blooded scorer, but that's all he is.

    His noteable problems -- he's played in Shaq's shadow, let's be honest. Another fun Kobe minus Shaq stat -- his FG% dropped from .47 to .42 when Shaq left, coincidence? He's made the playoffs once where horrible officiating lucked him into a 3-1 series lead whereupon the Lakers became one of the incredibly small number of teams to lose a 3-1 lead, capped off by him visibly quitting on the court in game 7. His game 7 performance in that series is an embarrassment not just to himself, but to all of basketball. He's an arrogant prick -- after Arenas torched the Lakers for over 50, Kobe -- who has a noticeable shot selection problem -- actually had the audacity to question Arenas' shot selection. I swear I thought it was bizarro world when I read the quote. Also he's dirty, ask Raja Bell who clothelined his punk ass to prove the point that he wasn't going to take his bullshit elbowing on the offensive end any more, and the NBA which has suspended him twice this season for errant elbows.

    Anybody who still compares Kobe to MJ is either trying to fill copy space (like the article you linked), a Lakers fan, or someone who never really watched MJ play. The comparison is laughable, and a run-down Shaq winning his 4th ring with Dwyane Wade on the wing pretty much ends the argument as to whose rings those 3 really are.

    No MVPs, no Finals MVPs, one playoff appearance without Shaq which resulted in the disgraceful Game 7 meltdown. Dude can light it up, no doubt, but let's not get crazy here.

    The Green Eyed Monster on
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    The Green Eyed MonsterThe Green Eyed Monster i blame hip hop Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    gundam470 wrote: »
    Yesterday's NBA player certainly was more fundamentally sound, but there's no question that today's player is bigger, stronger and faster. When Jordan played, he was a singular force that could not be equaled. Jordan was guarded by the likes of John Starks and Joe Dumars, who were fine players but weren't nearly as skilled or physically imposing as LeBron, D-Wade, Tracy McGrady or even Vince Carter.

    The NBA is tougher now.

    Kobe, like Michael, is surrounded with mediocre to below-average talent, and Phoenix, Dallas and San Antonio are all better than the Utah, Portland and the Charles Barkley-led Phoenix team that Michael met in the NBA Finals.

    3 NBA titles is more than something to write home about. And we can't exactly say that Shaq could have one those titles by himself either.

    No, he doesn't have six rings; he has three. But is this actually good evidence against his greatness as a player? Shouldn't the fact that he is playing in an era where the players are arguable much tougher opponents than the same ones MJ faced even out that particular statistic?
    This is garbage -- MJ played much tougher opponents -- Malone and Stockton, Ewing repeatedly, Kemp and Payton, Clyde the Glide and Terry Porter, Barkley and Kevin Johnson, Shaq and Penny. Those Sacramento and Portland teams that LAL knocked off were no joke, but those were Shaq's victories, not Kobe's. To pretend like Kobe is facing better competition is a joke. Jordan's era was noticeably better, and Jordan still dominated.

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    DukiDuki Registered User regular
    edited March 2007
    Jordan was better.

    Not much to say, really.

    Duki on
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