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Abercrombie and Fitch CEO and the subsequent Hashtag " Fitch The Homeless"

TheNomadicCircleTheNomadicCircle Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
I don't know how many of you have seen this news piece from Huffington Post and the subsequent rounds being made on facebook in support of this movement.

In short, because you can find it in the link, the CEO of A&F recently commented that he wants only a specific type of person to wear it, meaning Cool kids, and that his clothes aren't for the rest of the people who don't fit his definition of "cool". This was riding on the recent controversy that A&F has a regressive minority hiring policy with keeping them in specific locations thereby "hiding" them from normal view.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/14/abercrombie-and-fitch-homeless-brand-readjustment_n_3272498.html

While I have no problems with charity for the poor I think this raises a whole another issue that is apparent to me.

Is social class really dead anywhere?

I would say no it is not. It is no longer in a structure of peasant -> noble -> king relationship but the recent 99% vs 1% highlights this divide well. Capitalism also creates its own social structure by creating a new class the "middle class" which is better off than the poor but less richer than the rich.

So if the A&F CEO says that he only wants a select group of people wearing them according to his definition, regardless of how wrong or right he is, doesn't that become his incentive to cater to whom he wishes? I am sure that there are rich, overweight people, who have through their own actions and not of their genes kept them fat thus excluding them from buying A&F clothes. Why is it such it big deal to highlight that A&F doesn't deal with people whose sizes aren't available?

This is clearly a social class issues which has raised, in my opinion, a ruckus because people cannot tolerate being considered lower than they think of themselves. Through their own violation they have became unable to afford A&F clothing or find their sizes and thus this movement is created because they want "everyone" to be equal which is clearly a dream.

As well I disagree with the "Fitch the Homeless" movement. It is not a case of being against charity, which I fully support and consider anyone doing it good, but a case of pandering to the middle class at the expense of the homeless. Buying A&F clothing from thrift stores and then giving them to the homeless while ignoring the causes of their situation is in my opinion a pretty goosey thing to do and only highlights his, in my opinion, vile actions at being "supposedly" insulted at this company. I disagree with any and all his methods and those who are trying to do similar things.

What are your opinions?

And please keep it respectful. Thank you.

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Posts

  • ComradebotComradebot Lord of Dinosaurs Houston, TXRegistered User regular
    I think the A&F CEO is a complete prick.


    However, it's also a privately owned company, and if they want to not only target a specific group of people for their product and even state they don't want people outside their targeted group to wear their clothing, it is 100% within their rights to do so. It's a free market economy, and if you don't like their product or how they conduct business, then don't do business with them. If you want "nice" clothes (personally, I wouldn't be caught dead wearing anything made by A&E because their clothes look ridiculous), you have plenty of other options.

  • LucidLucid Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Here are a couple of statements you've made that I don't quite understand;

    Through their own violation they have became unable to afford A&F clothing or find their sizes and thus this movement is created because they want "everyone" to be equal which is clearly a dream.

    What do you mean by this, can you clarify?


    but a case of pandering to the middle class at the expense of the homeless. Buying A&F clothing from thrift stores and then giving them to the homeless while ignoring the causes of their situation is in my opinion a pretty goosey thing to do and only highlights his, in my opinion, vile actions at being "supposedly" insulted at this company. I disagree with any and all his methods and those who are trying to do similar things.

    What makes you think this person, or others of the like are ignorant of the causes of homelessness? Also, what about his actions are 'vile'? That seems like strong language to use to describe giving clothes to homeless people. Why have you put the word supposedly in quotation in regards to him being insulted, are you suspicious of this, and if so why?

    Lucid on
  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Well the only thing wrong with what he's (he meaning the A&F CEO, not the guy giving out clothes) doing is extreme rudeness, deliberately insulting people, and coming off as a horrible elitist.

    He's free to do all that and naturally he will be called out for doing it.

    If the elites are as wonderful as you are constantly telling us, then there is no downside for him. Why would he care if all the non-elite people hate him?

    Or did you imagine that being an elitist even entitles him to be liked by people he hates and insults for being allegedly inferior to him?

    I assure you, he is in no way so entitled.

    Regina Fong on
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    edit: bah... every aspect of this strikes me as dumb. I would say retarded, but generally retards aren't to blame for their failing which can't be said for the folks associated with this.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • RT800RT800 Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Isn't this kinda just him coming out and actually saying what A&F has been about for years?

    RT800 on
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    The interview was years ago...

    The guy giving out the clothes is also a massive douchebg for attempting to weaponize fake charity.

  • TheBlackWindTheBlackWind Registered User regular
    Seriously, you could buy one A&F shirt or a shirt, a meal, and god knows what else for the same price. Terrible idea.

    PAD ID - 328,762,218
  • ElkiElki get busy Moderator, ClubPA Mod Emeritus
    He's a jackass. Also, don't spend 'charity' money on expensive clothing.

    smCQ5WE.jpg
  • PhyphorPhyphor Building Planet Busters Tasting FruitRegistered User regular
    Seriously, you could buy one A&F shirt or a shirt, a meal, and god knows what else for the same price. Terrible idea.

    A meal and a shirt that probably lasts longer

  • JurgJurg In a TeacupRegistered User regular
    Playing Devil's advocate, he probably wants A&F to be "exclusive" to "cool" kids because if "uncool" people start wearing A&F then no one who is "cool" would be caught dead wearing it, because A&F is for teens and teens are dumb. Now, they could just go ahead and sell to everyone and use marketing magic to convince customers that they are buying into an exclusive cool, because, teens are dumb, but being a goose is also a way to go about it, I guess.

    This new (?) stuff just strikes me as ungraceful marketing BS. The real problems are their discriminatory hiring / work assignment practices (they are THE modern case study for this stuff in employment law classes).

    Didn't read about the charity thing, but whatever. I'd rather not feed into their marketing.

    sig.gif
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  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    He's entitled to run his business as he sees fit.

    But freedom of speech means that we're all allowed to call him a colossal goose.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Jurg wrote: »
    Didn't read about the charity thing, but whatever. I'd rather not feed into their marketing.

    This is a totally valid point. I mean, A&F have decided to be douchebags, the hashTard really is just raising awareness of their brand and desired consumer perception. If anything he's helping A&F. It would probably be worth making sure he isn't something akin to a gorilla marketing agent provocateur, if it wasn't certain to be found out by people with no lives and too much time on their hands like 4chan and redit.

    redx on
    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • MrMisterMrMister Jesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered User regular
    Isn't it pretty common for fashion designers to only want their clothes to be seen on the 'right' people? The whole industry is based around exclusivity and conspicuous consumption, with in-crowd cachet translating into big bucks.

    It's pretty shitty, but it seems like the only unique thing here is that he's being pretty explicit about it.

  • LucidLucid Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    @TheNomadicCircle

    Who are you arguing with?

    What is the point of this thread? Is there something broader in scope that you'd like to address? This seems like quite a minor controversy.

    Lucid on
  • BubbyBubby Registered User regular
    redx wrote: »
    edit: bah... every aspect of this strikes me as dumb. I would say retarded, but generally retards aren't to blame for their failing which can't be said for the folks associated with this.

    I wish people would stop using the word "retard" as an insult. There are plenty of other words to use that don't regard mentally disabled people with disdain.

  • FrankiedarlingFrankiedarling Registered User regular
    Bubby wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    edit: bah... every aspect of this strikes me as dumb. I would say retarded, but generally retards aren't to blame for their failing which can't be said for the folks associated with this.

    I wish people would stop using the word "retard" as an insult. There are plenty of other words to use that don't regard mentally disabled people with disdain.

    I wish people wouldn't get offended at silly nonsense like internet insults. But you know... life.

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Elki wrote: »
    He's a jackass. Also, don't spend 'charity' money on expensive clothing.
    Seriously, you could buy one A&F shirt or a shirt, a meal, and god knows what else for the same price. Terrible idea.

    The guy actually got all the clothes from a thrift store so I doubt any of it was particularly expensive.

  • QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    If I, supposing as a clothing manufacturer with a store front, make only three sizes, S,M, and L and then comment that my specific demographic doesn't cater to those larger than a L then I should not be called out. This is the principle of capitalism.

    You don't know what capitalism is.

  • JibbaJibba Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    MrMister wrote: »
    Isn't it pretty common for fashion designers to only want their clothes to be seen on the 'right' people? The whole industry is based around exclusivity and conspicuous consumption, with in-crowd cachet translating into big bucks.

    It's pretty shitty, but it seems like the only unique thing here is that he's being pretty explicit about it.

    Yep. I mean, ethically I think what they're doing is bad because it's contributing to the self-image problem in general society, but if it were my business or I were an investor and it's a successful strategy (which it generally is, besides them being too rigid during the recession) then I'd want them to continue doing it. It's the same reason we laugh at the People of Walmart blog and A&F (and most other clothing stores) are taking it to an extreme.

    It was absolutely idiotic for him to say it publicly though.

    Jibba on
  • CalixtusCalixtus Registered User regular
    MrMister wrote: »
    Isn't it pretty common for fashion designers to only want their clothes to be seen on the 'right' people? The whole industry is based around exclusivity and conspicuous consumption, with in-crowd cachet translating into big bucks.

    It's pretty shitty, but it seems like the only unique thing here is that he's being pretty explicit about it.
    Wasn't it Mercedes-Benz who demanded their logo be removed from any scene where it appeared in Slumdog Millionaire?

    Because fuck sakes, can't have our cars seen driven around in fucking slums.


    As for A&F, meh. Good marketing is marketing that sells. I think a lot of brands rely on a sort of "silent" coolness; "Oh yeah, our product is more expensive only because we want to milk the social dynamic where the size of the expenditure - rather than the quality of the product - enhances social status" might be awfully true, but its not the kind of thing you say.

    Because only people without actual class feel the need to point out how cool the clothes they're wearing really are.

    -This message was deviously brought to you by:
  • Tiger BurningTiger Burning Dig if you will, the pictureRegistered User, SolidSaints Tube regular
    you can't, consistently, claim on free market principles that a company ought be able to enjoy the effects of having a exclusive brand and that the same company ought be somehow protected or immune from the effects of making that same exclusivity explicit.

    Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    He is so entitled to cater his business which is a private business, as many here have said, to whomever he wants and statements like his are a clear indication that he isn't concerned with those who don't fit his role.

    He's entitled to run his business any way he wants. And we are entitled to fuck it up for him any way we want. Provided of course that, in both cases, the "any way" are legal ways. As you said, we're in a capitalist system, and he's the business owner, but we are the consumers and we have final say on whether his business succeeds or fails. And a large swat of consumers have decided they want it to fail.

    sig.gif
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    This discussion also seems to miss an important aspect of the A&F controversy, at least to me. It's not simply that A&F have their vision of "cool" and only want to cater to that; that's no different from what you find in any high school. Nor that their CEO made comments that sound like they were inspired by the bad guy in Revenge of the Nerds II; he could go around dressed in black twirling his moustache and rubbing his hands together and start every board meeting with an evil laugh for all I care.

    The problem is the social impact. You have a major company that caters to teenagers saying "looking like this is cool, looking like that is uncool and we don't want you in our stores". In a country that's already plagued by all kinds of eating disorders and a body-image obsession, this attitude can be seen, at best, as praying on the sick, and at worst as actively making the problem worse for profit. In either cases it's completely unacceptable to have a company behaving like this. Capitalism is not a license to act in a socially irresponsible or damaging way for short-term profit.

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  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    I like the memes running the gamut that body snark the CEO. They defeat the entire point they are making but holding beauty standards back to him instead of realizing that beauty standards are erroneous and juvenile.

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    And I think part of the Fitch The Homeless campaign is that he is readjusting the brand by giving the clothing to homeless people which do not fit into the CEOs standard of beauty/elitism, but it makes me want to throw up in my mouth because I think he chose homeless people not because of their need but because of their general appearance and class status.

  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    And I think part of the Fitch The Homeless campaign is that he is readjusting the brand by giving the clothing to homeless people which do not fit into the CEOs standard of beauty/elitism, but it makes me want to throw up in my mouth because I think he chose homeless people not because of their need but because of their general appearance and class status.

    Pretty much, yeah.

    But on the plus side, he's literally clothing the homeless. He's doing it for all the wrong reasons, but it is having a small positive impact. Doesn't that count for something?

    sig.gif
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    And I think part of the Fitch The Homeless campaign is that he is readjusting the brand by giving the clothing to homeless people which do not fit into the CEOs standard of beauty/elitism, but it makes me want to throw up in my mouth because I think he chose homeless people not because of their need but because of their general appearance and class status.

    Pretty much, yeah.

    But on the plus side, he's literally clothing the homeless. He's doing it for all the wrong reasons, but it is having a small positive impact. Doesn't that count for something?
    It absolutely does count for something. His exploitative motives still benefit the homeless regardless of his goal. And as far as exploitation goes, it is super harmless.

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  • syndalissyndalis Getting Classy On the WallRegistered User, Loves Apple Products, Transition Team regular
    Deebaser wrote: »
    The interview was years ago...

    People keep saying this, and its partially true... but the only reason the interview resurfaced is because the company very recently reaffirmed their position that fatties can't wear their clothing because fat people aren't cool.

    Hence, why they dragged that interview out; because recent statements made it relevant again. This is a company that hasn't changed their ways and does not seem interested in doing so.

    That said, I am a total hypocrite. I think they are bullshit, but I still am wearing my shorts from them because they are comfortable and well fitted to me.

    Also, they are far from the only brand that makes clothes specific to a body type; and they would have been fine to say stuff like "our designs aren't tailored for body types like that," as opposed to "fat people aren't cool."

    SW-4158-3990-6116
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  • zagdrobzagdrob Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    And I think part of the Fitch The Homeless campaign is that he is readjusting the brand by giving the clothing to homeless people which do not fit into the CEOs standard of beauty/elitism, but it makes me want to throw up in my mouth because I think he chose homeless people not because of their need but because of their general appearance and class status.

    Pretty much, yeah.

    But on the plus side, he's literally clothing the homeless. He's doing it for all the wrong reasons, but it is having a small positive impact. Doesn't that count for something?

    No it doesn't. He is exploiting the Homeless for his own needs. Do you think this sort of charity is needed? I would say no it isn't. What he could have done was to contribute in some meaningful way that eliminated their being on the streets.

    Instead he choose to give the man a fish instead of teaching him how to fish.

    Meh.

    I normally don't judge people's motivations when they are doing a net good. After all, if you nitpick enough, you find that just about everyone is helping charity for some selfish reason - the tax write-off, feel good about themselves / their own consumption, other societal benefits (being seen as a good person, etc).

    He could have done more good, but he apparently believed that he had a worthwhile cause (which is not something I give a shit about, but ok) and managed to do some small good in the process.

    Everyone could do more, don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

  • redxredx I(x)=2(x)+1 whole numbersRegistered User regular
    zagdrob wrote: »
    Richy wrote: »
    And I think part of the Fitch The Homeless campaign is that he is readjusting the brand by giving the clothing to homeless people which do not fit into the CEOs standard of beauty/elitism, but it makes me want to throw up in my mouth because I think he chose homeless people not because of their need but because of their general appearance and class status.

    Pretty much, yeah.

    But on the plus side, he's literally clothing the homeless. He's doing it for all the wrong reasons, but it is having a small positive impact. Doesn't that count for something?

    No it doesn't. He is exploiting the Homeless for his own needs. Do you think this sort of charity is needed? I would say no it isn't. What he could have done was to contribute in some meaningful way that eliminated their being on the streets.

    Instead he choose to give the man a fish instead of teaching him how to fish.

    Meh.

    I normally don't judge people's motivations when they are doing a net good. After all, if you nitpick enough, you find that just about everyone is helping charity for some selfish reason - the tax write-off, feel good about themselves / their own consumption, other societal benefits (being seen as a good person, etc).

    He could have done more good, but he apparently believed that he had a worthwhile cause (which is not something I give a shit about, but ok) and managed to do some small good in the process.

    Everyone could do more, don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

    His actions, while technically providing aid to a small number of homeless, reinforces the idea that the homeless are something less than fully human and equal. He's pretty much saying A&F should be ashamed that homeless people are wearing their clothing, because things are wrong with the homeless and they are socially unacceptable.

    It's less about perfect being the enemy of good, and more about the guy being a disrespectful self-righteous shitheel.

    If it was a company giving out clothes to the homeless to serve as walking billboards, would you not be offended? The only difference between that and this is scale.

    They moistly come out at night, moistly.
  • MarathonMarathon Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    And I think part of the Fitch The Homeless campaign is that he is readjusting the brand by giving the clothing to homeless people which do not fit into the CEOs standard of beauty/elitism, but it makes me want to throw up in my mouth because I think he chose homeless people not because of their need but because of their general appearance and class status.

    Pretty much, yeah.

    But on the plus side, he's literally clothing the homeless. He's doing it for all the wrong reasons, but it is having a small positive impact. Doesn't that count for something?

    No it doesn't. He is exploiting the Homeless for his own needs. Do you think this sort of charity is needed? I would say no it isn't. What he could have done was to contribute in some meaningful way that eliminated their being on the streets.

    Instead he choose to give the man a fish instead of teaching him how to fish.

    Yeah, fuck that guy. He have the homeless clothes, but didn't get them a job and place to live. What an asshole.

  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    Well the only thing wrong with what he's (he meaning the A&F CEO, not the guy giving out clothes) doing is extreme rudeness, deliberately insulting people, and coming off as a horrible elitist.

    He's free to do all that and naturally he will be called out for doing it.

    The issue is not that he can or cannot say it the issue is instead why is is being called out for it.

    Called out for being rude and degrading other people.

    I fail to see the problem.

  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    If I, supposing as a clothing manufacturer with a store front, make only three sizes, S,M, and L and then comment that my specific demographic doesn't cater to those larger than a L then I should not be called out. This is the principle of capitalism.

    You don't know what capitalism is.

    The whole thing boils down to TNC being offended that some activist is getting uppity.

    Rudeness is only a sin if you're being rude to your betters etc etc etc.

    Same old noise different thread.

  • BubbyBubby Registered User regular
    Bubby wrote: »
    redx wrote: »
    edit: bah... every aspect of this strikes me as dumb. I would say retarded, but generally retards aren't to blame for their failing which can't be said for the folks associated with this.

    I wish people would stop using the word "retard" as an insult. There are plenty of other words to use that don't regard mentally disabled people with disdain.

    I wish people wouldn't get offended at silly nonsense like internet insults. But you know... life.

    It's not a silly internet insult. It happens in the real world all the time.

  • AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    syndalis wrote: »
    Deebaser wrote: »
    The interview was years ago...

    People keep saying this, and its partially true... but the only reason the interview resurfaced is because the company very recently reaffirmed their position that fatties can't wear their clothing because fat people aren't cool.

    Hence, why they dragged that interview out; because recent statements made it relevant again. This is a company that hasn't changed their ways and does not seem interested in doing so.

    That said, I am a total hypocrite. I think they are bullshit, but I still am wearing my shorts from them because they are comfortable and well fitted to me.

    Also, they are far from the only brand that makes clothes specific to a body type; and they would have been fine to say stuff like "our designs aren't tailored for body types like that," as opposed to "fat people aren't cool."

    Karl Lagerfield and his spat with H&M comes to mind.

    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
  • RichyRichy Registered User regular
    Richy wrote: »
    And I think part of the Fitch The Homeless campaign is that he is readjusting the brand by giving the clothing to homeless people which do not fit into the CEOs standard of beauty/elitism, but it makes me want to throw up in my mouth because I think he chose homeless people not because of their need but because of their general appearance and class status.

    Pretty much, yeah.

    But on the plus side, he's literally clothing the homeless. He's doing it for all the wrong reasons, but it is having a small positive impact. Doesn't that count for something?

    No it doesn't. He is exploiting the Homeless for his own needs. Do you think this sort of charity is needed? I would say no it isn't. What he could have done was to contribute in some meaningful way that eliminated their being on the streets.

    Instead he choose to give the man a fish instead of teaching him how to fish.

    Yeah, fuck that guy. I'm sure the homeless people threw these shirts back at him and yelled "give us a cotton plantation and a manufacturing plant, you short-term-result-oriented asshole!" Then they went to picket the nearby soup kitchen in protest of them giving food instead of arable land ready for sowing and livestock ready for breeding. Poor people's lives are sure made hard by all these jerks catering to their immediate needs.

    sig.gif
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