Wow. I don't know how I haven't heard of Gunpoint before now. But it reaffirms the thought that I need to get off my fucking ass and learn how to make a game. I have a few ideas that are grandiose, and I have a few that are very small. Not knock-offs of that, but definitely in the same league. Damn.
Me too, I've got some dreams. Lots of good ideas I'm sure would sell. And I've gotten started on several projects, learned XNA, learned Unity, never went further. Sticking to it is the hard part.
I would include Nintendoland as part of the marketing fuckup. What absolute dog of a launch title.
This is why Nintendo says that consumers need to get hands-on with the system. With 2-4 players, it's more of an evangelizing title for the console than Wii Sports. It's just not compelling to most people before they play it that way. Outside of that, it's bigger, better, and shows a lot more effort than was put into Wii Sports. In fact it's done more with the console's unique features than just about any other game on the platform.
I've personally witnessed several families buy the console after playing Nintendoland in a party setting, and lots of others expressed strong interest. My friend took it over to other peoples' houses quite a bit and it was always a hit.
Anecdotal evidence and all but when I pulled out Nintendoland at a family gathering, it was a dud. Not horrible but by the end, everyone agreed we would have been better off just playing Wario Ware (Wii) or Wii Sports. Sold the game soon thereafter.
I think a big problem with Nintendoland is that it lacks the immediacy of Wii Sports. With Wii Sports, you pop in the game and it's really obvious how to play everything. With Nintendoland, you turn it on and then you have to explain two sets of rules for each game (gamepad vs. everyone else). And if you've never played Nintendoland before, there's a bunch of annoying "Look at your theme park" tutorials that interrupt your playing the actual games.
In any case, Nintendoland lacks the wow factor that Wii Sports had.
See, I've had the opposite experience. I learned pretty quickly that the Mario Chase, Animal Crossing candy chase thing, and Luigi's Mansion games are pretty much the way to go. I've taken it along to multiple different groups of friends' houses, ranging from total non-gamers to the hardest of core pc gamer master race types, and ended up losing an entire day to those games on every occasion. It was worth getting the system for NintendoLand alone, because of the sheer amount of time that's been sunk into that game by so many people.
Like you, anecdotal, sure, but I think your family hates fun.
I would include Nintendoland as part of the marketing fuckup. What absolute dog of a launch title.
This is why Nintendo says that consumers need to get hands-on with the system. With 2-4 players, it's more of an evangelizing title for the console than Wii Sports. It's just not compelling to most people before they play it that way. Outside of that, it's bigger, better, and shows a lot more effort than was put into Wii Sports. In fact it's done more with the console's unique features than just about any other game on the platform.
I've personally witnessed several families buy the console after playing Nintendoland in a party setting, and lots of others expressed strong interest. My friend took it over to other peoples' houses quite a bit and it was always a hit.
Anecdotal evidence and all but when I pulled out Nintendoland at a family gathering, it was a dud. Not horrible but by the end, everyone agreed we would have been better off just playing Wario Ware (Wii) or Wii Sports. Sold the game soon thereafter.
I think a big problem with Nintendoland is that it lacks the immediacy of Wii Sports. With Wii Sports, you pop in the game and it's really obvious how to play everything. With Nintendoland, you turn it on and then you have to explain two sets of rules for each game (gamepad vs. everyone else). And if you've never played Nintendoland before, there's a bunch of annoying "Look at your theme park" tutorials that interrupt your playing the actual games.
In any case, Nintendoland lacks the wow factor that Wii Sports had.
See, I've had the opposite experience. I learned pretty quickly that the Mario Chase, Animal Crossing candy chase thing, and Luigi's Mansion games are pretty much the way to go. I've taken it along to multiple different groups of friends' houses, ranging from total non-gamers to the hardest of core pc gamer master race types, and ended up losing an entire day to those games on every occasion. It was worth getting the system for NintendoLand alone, because of the sheer amount of time that's been sunk into that game by so many people.
Like you, anecdotal, sure, but I think your family hates fun.
Kidding, of course!
I've had a similar experience. Nintendoland has been a centerpiece of most social outings for me and most of my friends are actively disappointed when I don't bring my Wii U with me as a result. Anyone I haven't swayed on the worthiness of the Wii U using Nintendoland have been convinced when I turn them loose in Zombi U or NSMBU depending on their tastes.
Nintendo Network ID: Oniros
3DS Friend Code: 1461-7489-3097
Jesus Christ.
So, I quit my job.
In fact, I think I have quit jobs, as a concept. I started Gunpoint as an audition piece to get myself a position at a developer, but designing it has been so creatively satisfying that I no longer want one, and so commercially successful that I’ll never need one.
I haven’t been retweeting praise or flaunting any actual sales figures, but if it’s not going to sound too horribly braggy, I’ll share the one part of Gunpoint’s success that you might actually care about:
I can now make games full-time for the foreseeable future
More amazingly, I can do it with total creative freedom. There’s really no pressure for my next thing to make a particular amount of money, so I can do whatever I think will be most exciting.
It also means I can afford to keep being nice. I didn’t let anyone pay for Gunpoint until I was ready to put a free demo out, so everyone would have a way to make sure it ran OK on their system and that they liked it before giving me any money.
I think this got lost in all the anti-piracy talk, and it actually brings up a very good/important marketing point.
I was informed by lots of people with industry experience that this [releasing a demo at or before launch] is commercial idiocy: you want to hold it back so that excited fans buy without trying, then you can release the demo later to tempt those who weren’t convinced. And with some (not all), you get weird responses if you bring up non-money factors in a business conversation. “You’ll lose sales this way!”
“From people who don’t really like it? I think I want to lose those sales.” “No, you don’t understand. You’ll have less sales.“
I’m sure they’re right, and as a noob I appreciate the advice. In fact I got so much skepticism that I started to think the lost sales might actually be the difference between being able to become a developer or not. But even if that had been the case, I wasn’t going to quit my job for a career in tricking people into giving me money and regretting it.
I have no idea if and how much the pre-release demo hurt Gunpoint’s sales, but it doesn’t matter now – that’s how I want to treat people, and the amazing support for Gunpoint means I can afford to.
Industry experts were telling him that an early demo would hurt his sales, but he experienced what looks like the opposite: his demo released before the game, during a preorder week.
People were playing the demo and telling their friends about it, leading to those quick sales; the preorder week alone got him enough sales to be comfortable quitting his job to become a full-time independent developer. And then he released it...
He made a conscious decision that he didn't want to trick anyone into buying his game before they had a chance to try it out. He counted on the hope that positive word of mouth from informed, happy players was worth more than extra sales to people who might be disappointed when they got the full game. It seems to me that in a more connected, social-media savvy world developers need to be as concerned with opportunities to limit bad reactions as they are with opportunities to create good reactions to their game.
This reminds me of the Mass Effect 3 demo, which came out like a week or two before the game launched. I don't know what the ultimate impact was on sales, but I personally heard from people who, never having played a Mass Effect game before, decided to buy it after playing the multiplayer demo. I'd certainly love it if publishers/developers started standing behind their gameplay, rather than hoping to improve sales by concealing the product.
+1
NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
Everything old is new again.
Cause wasn't this the original idea for demos and shareware?
This reminds me of the Mass Effect 3 demo, which came out like a week or two before the game launched. I don't know what the ultimate impact was on sales, but I personally heard from people who, never having played a Mass Effect game before, decided to buy it after playing the multiplayer demo. I'd certainly love it if publishers/developers started standing behind their gameplay, rather than hoping to improve sales by concealing the product.
Well, the trouble is, this video makes a good point:
Demos are generally not worth making for developers. I think indie games are a unique case though, in many ways...it's not like your good game would've sold well anyway even without a demo, because nobody knows about you! But I understand why larger companies tend to avoid them.
GCN was an actual failure sales wise, wasn't it? Nintendo playing the currency exchange is what kept the company alive during that period. That and the DS eventually hit and they started printing their own currency, forget the blackjack and exchange.
I don't think so. It didn't do well, but they were in the black all those years still. They sold them at a profit so they weren't really losing money on the consoles (unlike, I want to say, at least Microsoft.. maybe Sony... for a little while there). I could be wrong tho, I haven't looked at the numbers in forever.
Long term, you could say it wasn't a failure. Because Iwata took over the company at that time and used the Gamecube to slowly repair all the damage Yamauchi had caused to the company (i.e. like the fact that the thing actually had 3rd party exclusives, and that he managed to un-piss-off Square), which allowed the Wii to be successful :P
I remember now: They were beating MS and PS in actual money because of the market despite lackluster console sales. That was it. But yeah failure is a weird word in this sense, it set up that 3rd party relationships it needed (and arguably faulted on with the wii) and did other neat things.
News is starting to leak out that MS is going to completely revise and reverse their position on DRM and onlline connection requiements for the XBone today.
Shortly after Microsoft and Sony held their E3 press conferences on June 10, GameStop had pre-order SKUs in their system for Xbox One and PlayStation 4 respectively. With price points and launch windows announced, both systems were available for consumers to reserve almost immediately. Just over a week later, the pre-order SKU for Xbox One has been removed from GameStop’s system corporate-wide without explanation.
As of this morning, GameStop management has confirmed that they are not currently taking reserves on Xbox One. No official explanation has been given for the removal of the SKU at this time, and GameStop has not clarified whether or not they will re-open the reserve list at a later time. PlayStation 4 is still available for reserve, and Sony recently announced that GameStop has pledged to buy every PlayStation 4 they can get their hands on.
Gamestop must have forgot to sign in within twenty four hours.
The answer to the question - "What happens to the next gen console whose manufacturer sets out to destroy the second hand market, but the rival manufacturer doesn't ?"
Apparently the shops who rely on the second hand market to survive refuse to stock it.
I wonder if Gamestation here in the UK will do the same ?
The tug-of-war between Microsoft and Sony just got more interesting. Multiple sources inform me Microsoft will announce what amounts to a complete reversal on its DRM policies for Xbox One today.
What does this mean?
No more always online requirement
The console no longer has to check in every 24 hours
All game discs will work on Xbox One as they do on Xbox 360
An Internet connection is only required when initially setting up the console
All downloaded games will function the same when online or offline
No additional restrictions on trading games or loaning discs
Region locks have been dropped
It is unclear what caused this huge change in policy right after E3, a week where Microsoft executives spent days explaining, justifying, and talking about its policies to the press. I suspect Microsoft’s official announcement will say something to the effect of “we've been closely listening to consumer feedback.”
Based on what I’m being told, that’s definitely true.
I've reached out to Microsoft for comment.
Microsoft has taken an enormous amount of heat regarding DRM policies with its new console. Sony became consumer heroes at E3, announcing PlayStation 4 would not treat used games differently, and the status quo would reign. The company released this video, twisting the knife:
News is starting to leak out that MS is going to completely revise and reverse their position on DRM and onlline connection requiements for the XBone today.
Well at least I feel a little vindicated. If always online isn't a requirement, then there are no game enhancing facets of "the cloud" and everyone who assumed it was DRM was right.
If it's true. Which I don't think it is. GB wouldn't be the only site with the rumor going.
The fact there are so many people defending why a failed idea was the right choice, and improving on a successful idea was the wrong choice, certainly explains why so many companies stick with failed ideas until they go bankrupt.
No, all it explains is that you have a different opinion from me. And I think for the sake of my brain and everyone else's (I really don't want to get into a semantics war about how the Olymics are different from Wii Fit) we should drop this.
cloudeagle on
Switch: 3947-4890-9293
0
fearsomepirateI ate a pickle once.Registered Userregular
All they have to do now is not sell it with Kinect and reduce the OS footprint by 67%, and the machine will be almost as good as the PS4.
Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
Well at least I feel a little vindicated. If always online isn't a requirement, then there are no game enhancing facets of "the cloud" and everyone who assumed it was DRM was right.
If it's true. Which I don't think it is. GB wouldn't be the only site with the rumor going.
Well, this is a bit like how the multiplayer passes weren't DRM but they were definitely a means to restricting sharing/pirating. Which is how they should have spun this all along. Emphasize what I get Microsoft, not what you get.
Though like 90% of the cloud stuff is still probably bullshit.
The tug-of-war between Microsoft and Sony just got more interesting. Multiple sources inform me Microsoft will announce what amounts to a complete reversal on its DRM policies for Xbox One today.
What does this mean?
No more always online requirement
The console no longer has to check in every 24 hours
All game discs will work on Xbox One as they do on Xbox 360
An Internet connection is only required when initially setting up the console
All downloaded games will function the same when online or offline
No additional restrictions on trading games or loaning discs
Region locks have been dropped
It is unclear what caused this huge change in policy right after E3, a week where Microsoft executives spent days explaining, justifying, and talking about its policies to the press. I suspect Microsoft’s official announcement will say something to the effect of “we've been closely listening to consumer feedback.”
Based on what I’m being told, that’s definitely true.
I've reached out to Microsoft for comment.
Microsoft has taken an enormous amount of heat regarding DRM policies with its new console. Sony became consumer heroes at E3, announcing PlayStation 4 would not treat used games differently, and the status quo would reign. The company released this video, twisting the knife:
I'll believe it when I see it.
Hmm... seems almost too good to be true. So would this mean I could play an Xbox One game without having the Kinect connected?
Nintendo Console Codes
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
You know what? If it's true, I fault Microsoft more now for not sticking to their guns.
If what they wanted to do was going to be so innovative a forward-looking, to back down on it a week after announcement just means they really are all the scumbugs we thought they were all along.
The Microsoft thing -- wow. If it's true, it would be one of the biggest, swiftest 180s a major corporation has done on a new policy since New Coke. I certainly can't think of another one.
Still, it's necessary. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE has been slagging Microsoft from this, from the forums to the enthusiast press to the non-enthusiast press to your great uncle who is generally confused by tech talk. But it's a HUGE embarrassment for them, and I wonder if the damage can be 100% undone.
Shortly after Microsoft and Sony held their E3 press conferences on June 10, GameStop had pre-order SKUs in their system for Xbox One and PlayStation 4 respectively. With price points and launch windows announced, both systems were available for consumers to reserve almost immediately. Just over a week later, the pre-order SKU for Xbox One has been removed from GameStop’s system corporate-wide without explanation.
As of this morning, GameStop management has confirmed that they are not currently taking reserves on Xbox One. No official explanation has been given for the removal of the SKU at this time, and GameStop has not clarified whether or not they will re-open the reserve list at a later time. PlayStation 4 is still available for reserve, and Sony recently announced that GameStop has pledged to buy every PlayStation 4 they can get their hands on.
Gamestop must have forgot to sign in within twenty four hours.
The answer to the question - "What happens to the next gen console whose manufacturer sets out to destroy the second hand market, but the rival manufacturer doesn't ?"
Apparently the shops who rely on the second hand market to survive refuse to stock it.
I wonder if Gamestation here in the UK will do the same ?
Fake edit - never mind, skipped most of the article and misunderstood the point. Damn my natural negativity !
Would you trust them not to sucker you in with this then turn all that shit back on two years down the line?
As much as I expect sony to turn course in the next few years, and start shitting all over independent developers and homebrewers like they did in the PSP / Early PS3 era, or drastically raise the price on stuff and do their next e3 conference discussing the finer points of giant enemy crabs.
Companies are allowed to change their mind on stuff. Microsoft kicked a hornets nest; if the rumor is true then I suspect they will not be kicking the nest again any time soon, especially since they will already be taking heat for flip flopping. Flip flop flipping would just be ridiculous.
Anyways, this is all moot since digital media will act exactly the same as it was beforehand (minus the onerous 24 hour checkin) and before this generation is out, I suspect disc based sales of games will be the minority of their business.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
0
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
News is starting to leak out that MS is going to completely revise and reverse their position on DRM and onlline connection requiements for the XBone today.
Does this still mean publishers can still institute online DRM? If not I might get an Xbone. Maybe.
That list would get rid of most of the stinkiest of the stink-tastic choices Microsoft made with the Xbone, but it still leaves one major stumbling block: it's comparable or possibly weaker hardware for a hundred bucks more than the PS4. Plus, a bunch of people have now seen the free candy that gets handed out with PS+ over Live. Not to mention that Microsoft would still look like a giant asshole for putting all that stuff in in the first place, and there would be a genuine issue of trust involved. If Microsoft was willing to commit to treating customers like dirt like that, then flip around to the opposite, how hard would it really even be for them to go back to being shitty again?
There's not even a guarantee that Microsoft realizes they've pissed off a lot of people; given the corporate environment that allows the shitty Xbone choices to be made, they could just easily be thinking that they've singlehandedly killed the PS4 and WiiU already.
You know what? If it's true, I fault Microsoft more now for not sticking to their guns.
If what they wanted to do was going to be so innovative a forward-looking, to back down on it a week after announcement just means they really are all the scumbugs we thought they were all along.
It is possible to be ahead of one's time.
Kodak had invented the digital camera sensor decades before everyone else, and had the first products to market. But they were way ahead of their time, and did terribly with them as the market wasn't there to support it. Even if MS does revert the policies which seems sort of unlikely, this sort of thing is the future.
Posts
Me too, I've got some dreams. Lots of good ideas I'm sure would sell. And I've gotten started on several projects, learned XNA, learned Unity, never went further. Sticking to it is the hard part.
See, I've had the opposite experience. I learned pretty quickly that the Mario Chase, Animal Crossing candy chase thing, and Luigi's Mansion games are pretty much the way to go. I've taken it along to multiple different groups of friends' houses, ranging from total non-gamers to the hardest of core pc gamer master race types, and ended up losing an entire day to those games on every occasion. It was worth getting the system for NintendoLand alone, because of the sheer amount of time that's been sunk into that game by so many people.
Like you, anecdotal, sure, but I think your family hates fun.
I've had a similar experience. Nintendoland has been a centerpiece of most social outings for me and most of my friends are actively disappointed when I don't bring my Wii U with me as a result. Anyone I haven't swayed on the worthiness of the Wii U using Nintendoland have been convinced when I turn them loose in Zombi U or NSMBU depending on their tastes.
3DS Friend Code: 1461-7489-3097
This reminds me of the Mass Effect 3 demo, which came out like a week or two before the game launched. I don't know what the ultimate impact was on sales, but I personally heard from people who, never having played a Mass Effect game before, decided to buy it after playing the multiplayer demo. I'd certainly love it if publishers/developers started standing behind their gameplay, rather than hoping to improve sales by concealing the product.
Cause wasn't this the original idea for demos and shareware?
Well, the trouble is, this video makes a good point:
Demos are generally not worth making for developers. I think indie games are a unique case though, in many ways...it's not like your good game would've sold well anyway even without a demo, because nobody knows about you! But I understand why larger companies tend to avoid them.
I remember now: They were beating MS and PS in actual money because of the market despite lackluster console sales. That was it. But yeah failure is a weird word in this sense, it set up that 3rd party relationships it needed (and arguably faulted on with the wii) and did other neat things.
http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/microsoft-to-pull-complete-reversal-on-xbox-one-dr/1100-4673/
This is going to shake things up.
The answer to the question - "What happens to the next gen console whose manufacturer sets out to destroy the second hand market, but the rival manufacturer doesn't ?"
Apparently the shops who rely on the second hand market to survive refuse to stock it.
I wonder if Gamestation here in the UK will do the same ?
I'll believe it when I see it.
*scoff*
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
3DS Friend Code: 2165-6448-8348 www.Twitch.TV/cooljammer00
Battle.Net: JohnDarc#1203 Origin/UPlay: CoolJammer00
I thought GB was staunchly anti-rumor.
I will wait for Microsoft's official statement before believing any of it.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
Does this mean publishers can still institute online DRM? If not I might get an Xbone. Maybe.
I'm curious how much this will help them. They still have a hundred reasons weighing against them but this removes the more fundamental ones.
If it's true. Which I don't think it is. GB wouldn't be the only site with the rumor going.
No, all it explains is that you have a different opinion from me. And I think for the sake of my brain and everyone else's (I really don't want to get into a semantics war about how the Olymics are different from Wii Fit) we should drop this.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
Well, this is a bit like how the multiplayer passes weren't DRM but they were definitely a means to restricting sharing/pirating. Which is how they should have spun this all along. Emphasize what I get Microsoft, not what you get.
Though like 90% of the cloud stuff is still probably bullshit.
Hmm... seems almost too good to be true. So would this mean I could play an Xbox One game without having the Kinect connected?
Switch (JeffConser): SW-3353-5433-5137 Wii U: Skeldare - 3DS: 1848-1663-9345
PM Me if you add me!
If what they wanted to do was going to be so innovative a forward-looking, to back down on it a week after announcement just means they really are all the scumbugs we thought they were all along.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
Still, it's necessary. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE has been slagging Microsoft from this, from the forums to the enthusiast press to the non-enthusiast press to your great uncle who is generally confused by tech talk. But it's a HUGE embarrassment for them, and I wonder if the damage can be 100% undone.
Fake edit - never mind, skipped most of the article and misunderstood the point. Damn my natural negativity !
This is going to be hilariously awkward PR wise if the rumor isn't true.
As much as I expect sony to turn course in the next few years, and start shitting all over independent developers and homebrewers like they did in the PSP / Early PS3 era, or drastically raise the price on stuff and do their next e3 conference discussing the finer points of giant enemy crabs.
Companies are allowed to change their mind on stuff. Microsoft kicked a hornets nest; if the rumor is true then I suspect they will not be kicking the nest again any time soon, especially since they will already be taking heat for flip flopping. Flip flop flipping would just be ridiculous.
Anyways, this is all moot since digital media will act exactly the same as it was beforehand (minus the onerous 24 hour checkin) and before this generation is out, I suspect disc based sales of games will be the minority of their business.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
That list would get rid of most of the stinkiest of the stink-tastic choices Microsoft made with the Xbone, but it still leaves one major stumbling block: it's comparable or possibly weaker hardware for a hundred bucks more than the PS4. Plus, a bunch of people have now seen the free candy that gets handed out with PS+ over Live. Not to mention that Microsoft would still look like a giant asshole for putting all that stuff in in the first place, and there would be a genuine issue of trust involved. If Microsoft was willing to commit to treating customers like dirt like that, then flip around to the opposite, how hard would it really even be for them to go back to being shitty again?
But mostly:
There's not even a guarantee that Microsoft realizes they've pissed off a lot of people; given the corporate environment that allows the shitty Xbone choices to be made, they could just easily be thinking that they've singlehandedly killed the PS4 and WiiU already.
It is possible to be ahead of one's time.
Kodak had invented the digital camera sensor decades before everyone else, and had the first products to market. But they were way ahead of their time, and did terribly with them as the market wasn't there to support it. Even if MS does revert the policies which seems sort of unlikely, this sort of thing is the future.
Particularly after that Amazon poll ended.
I think what's even funnier is when the whole of the internet reports it's happening and MS has to come out and deny it.
........this would be hilarious. If there were a place I could donate money to make this happen I would.