Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
I was definitely looking forward to the power boost from the Xbox to the 360, but from the 360 to the Xbone? Not really at all. Even with the current consoles being horrendously underpowered compared to PCs, there are still loads of games where snapshots can cross the border from "game" and into "art". Something like the first Deus Ex is doomed to forever look crude, but Human Revolution is going to keep looking good a decade or two down the road, simply because the power of consoles allows for something that can mesh quality and style without making the eyes bleed. I mean, take Metro 2033: Last Light; it defaults to DX11, which looks incredible but brought my system to its knees. I edited the config file to turn it down to DX9 and you know what? The game still looks absolutely incredible. And that was on my now-middling gaming rig, which probably isn't even going to be far off, power-wise, from the new consoles. The graphical gap there just isn't a whole heckuva lot compared to the last several generations.
About the only thing I'm looking forward to is that, FINALLY, the upgrade to consoles will allow for PC games that aren't so enormously mired in the limitations of ancient consoles. In other words, I'm looking forward to much more open environments, instead of being constantly hemmed in due to the RAM limits of consoles. It was a lot better with the PS360 gen than back with the Xbox, but it's still painfully easy to bump up against the edges of many game worlds currently.
I'm more amazed about how they fit the entire game on the disc.
Skyrim is like 5 gigs. What devilry made that possible?
I guess in ten years we'll be saying the same things, though.
How the fuck did Valve manage to get Half Life 4 onto a single data shard? Those things only hold five terabytes, they're tiny!
0
spacekungfumanPoor and minority-filledRegistered User, __BANNED USERSregular
I really think that in a decade the current crop of 3d games will look just as crude as PS2 games do now. We aren't even close to true photorealism yet. Just like in years past, the only games we have now that will stand the test of time visually are those with a strong art direction.
I really think that in a decade the current crop of 3d games will look just as crude as PS2 games do now. We aren't even close to true photorealism yet. Just like in years past, the only games we have now that will stand the test of time visually are those with a strong art direction.
but wouldn't things like photorealistic games take a zillion years to make and have budgets so high that either prices or sales or both would have to grow enormously?
I really think that in a decade the current crop of 3d games will look just as crude as PS2 games do now. We aren't even close to true photorealism yet. Just like in years past, the only games we have now that will stand the test of time visually are those with a strong art direction.
Not true. We're reaching peak graphics, if not already passed it.
0
AthenorBattle Hardened OptimistThe Skies of HiigaraRegistered Userregular
It's telling when the CoD video talked about how much the curved surfaces on the pilot's helmet would immerse the player more into the world. And I see nothing special about their German Shepherd model that couldn't have been done current-gen if they'd made a "hero" model instead of a background NPC out of a dog.
That Call of Duty Ghosts presentation was a smorgasbord of old techniques reworded to sound new.
Fish that avoid you using AI? Literally a feature of Mario 64.
Low fidelity models that improve detail the closer you get to them? That's just LOD meshes, guys, not 'subD'. Don't make up a new phrase for an old thing.
Mantling over low objects and obstacles? Christ, we'd be going back to the 2D era for that shit.
I am fully aware that this and the release date of New Years Eve 2013 are placeholders and it is 99.5% certain we are not going to see such a thing, but I still thought it interesting that Amazon.co.uk decided to start the preorder price of the Xbox One at £599 (US$900), that when it came to hedging your bets and guaranteeing you don't offer a price that turns out to be lower than the RRP they thought there was an outside chance the console could sell for this much.
I am fully aware that this and the release date of New Years Eve 2013 are placeholders and it is 99.5% certain we are not going to see such a thing, but I still thought it interesting that Amazon.co.uk decided to start the preorder price of the Xbox One at £599 (US$900), that when it came to hedging your bets and guaranteeing you don't offer a price that turns out to be lower than the RRP they thought there was an outside chance the console could sell for this much.
I am fully aware that this and the release date of New Years Eve 2013 are placeholders and it is 99.5% certain we are not going to see such a thing, but I still thought it interesting that Amazon.co.uk decided to start the preorder price of the Xbox One at £599 (US$900), that when it came to hedging your bets and guaranteeing you don't offer a price that turns out to be lower than the RRP they thought there was an outside chance the console could sell for this much.
I am fully aware that this and the release date of New Years Eve 2013 are placeholders and it is 99.5% certain we are not going to see such a thing, but I still thought it interesting that Amazon.co.uk decided to start the preorder price of the Xbox One at £599 (US$900), that when it came to hedging your bets and guaranteeing you don't offer a price that turns out to be lower than the RRP they thought there was an outside chance the console could sell for this much.
I am fully aware that this and the release date of New Years Eve 2013 are placeholders and it is 99.5% certain we are not going to see such a thing, but I still thought it interesting that Amazon.co.uk decided to start the preorder price of the Xbox One at £599 (US$900), that when it came to hedging your bets and guaranteeing you don't offer a price that turns out to be lower than the RRP they thought there was an outside chance the console could sell for this much.
0
David_TA fashion yes-man is no good to me.Copenhagen, DenmarkRegistered Userregular
I don't know if you guys heard, but apparently Amazo-oh...
The PS4 preorders were also at £599, it's literally proof that they don't have a clue what the RRP will end up as.
Really I think the impressive "next-gen" stuff for games will be more impressive CPU intensive things like AI, maybe more depth. Graphics will improve but we aren't going to see such an obvious jump as we have in previous console generations.
If AI in general improves I will be pleased as shit.
The problem is figuring out what qualifies as "better AI", sadly--it's not always evident. Half-Life 2 broke a lot of ground, but it had predictable, unoriginal AI when it came out (of course, its predecessor blazed a trail in that area). But it works because so much of the game is set in corridors, or makes use of enemy waves (like a lot of games).
Now, having smart, plausible AI in something like Battlefield is immediately evident--and it doesn't even need to be comparable to gamer multiplayer behavior (as hilarious as it is in multiplayer, jets racking up kills by skimming the ground would suck in singlelpayer), just better than the abysmal behavior we've got now.
Well, while an unoriginal / uninspired AI can be a bad thing, a game can also be constructed with that in mind to make it not noticeable or not a problem at all.
Which is exactly what HL2 does (and a lot of other games try to do). It doesn't take a lot to have stupid guys in shoot down hallways or shoot whatever comes through a doorway, or attack in waves. It's definitely a solution.
Really I think the impressive "next-gen" stuff for games will be more impressive CPU intensive things like AI, maybe more depth. Graphics will improve but we aren't going to see such an obvious jump as we have in previous console generations.
If AI in general improves I will be pleased as shit.
The problem is figuring out what qualifies as "better AI", sadly--it's not always evident. Half-Life 2 broke a lot of ground, but it had predictable, unoriginal AI when it came out (of course, its predecessor blazed a trail in that area). But it works because so much of the game is set in corridors, or makes use of enemy waves (like a lot of games).
Now, having smart, plausible AI in something like Battlefield is immediately evident--and it doesn't even need to be comparable to gamer multiplayer behavior (as hilarious as it is in multiplayer, jets racking up kills by skimming the ground would suck in singlelpayer), just better than the abysmal behavior we've got now.
Just wondering if you downloaded Minerva yet.
Because MAN that lets the HL2 AI show off. They're pretty impressive at times if you let them out of their corridors.
I've had Minerva shown to me (I have..pretty much zero interest in HL2 now, or the episodes--just gone over them too much), and it's both an impressive improvement and a shining example of the vanilla's AI tendency to stand still and shoot in the direction of the enemy.
I really think that in a decade the current crop of 3d games will look just as crude as PS2 games do now. We aren't even close to true photorealism yet. Just like in years past, the only games we have now that will stand the test of time visually are those with a strong art direction.
Not true. We're reaching peak graphics, if not already passed it.
If they weren't shapist they'd try circles or maybe even squares! They're holding us back with this unjust adherence to 3 sides!
"For no one - no one in this world can you trust. Not men. Not women. Not beasts...this you can trust."
+2
SarksusATTACK AND DETHRONE GODRegistered Userregular
Do keep in mind that poly count is not the only way to improve graphic fidelity. We can improve textures, shaders, and better lighting techniques. The lighting in particular will be very important in the next few years.
I'm more amazed about how they fit the entire game on the disc.
Skyrim is like 5 gigs. What devilry made that possible?
I guess in ten years we'll be saying the same things, though.
How the fuck did Valve manage to get Half Life 4 onto a single data shard? Those things only hold five terabytes, they're tiny!
I don't think so. By the time HL4 comes about, we'll be dealing with point-to-point memory transfers. Terabytes will be used for car keys. Of course, none of us will be alive either...
+1
darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
I think the next goal for crazy-ass graphics is going to be lighting. I think graphics at the moment are pretty damn good, but the one thing that really bugs me in current AAA titles is the lack of dynamic lighting.
Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
+2
fearsomepirateI ate a pickle once.Registered Userregular
IMO AI has been mostly a design choice since Halo 1. You don't want to fight fifty bad guys with good AI because you'd always die.
We've already passed "peak polygon" for most types of games (especially taking normal maps into account), and we're probably on the cusp of passing "peak lighting." This gen, we saw basically every single lighting effect you need to make a mostly physically correctly lit scene--SSAO, GI, radiosity, material shaders, translucency, etc. I say "mostly" because there's still more progress to be made, but the visual impact will be marginal (e.g. the first global light bounce has a huge effect, the second some, and the third is barely noticed by most viewers). The only limitation was you couldn't put them all together at once. Next gen, you will.
Nobody makes me bleed my own blood...nobody.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
Breakable objects and material properties will be the bloom lighting of next generation.
Most of the other big advances still to come are nowhere near as showy or immediate in presentation.
Dirt will be dirt, volumetric fog and sand, flowing water and crumbling walls. Those sorts of things, along with improvements to cloth physics and particle effects.
Anything more is just the game's technical lead jerking himself off.
Breakable objects and material properties will be the bloom lighting of next generation.
Most of the other big advances still to come are nowhere near as showy or immediate in presentation.
Dirt will be dirt, volumetric fog and sand, flowing water and crumbling walls. Those sorts of things, along with improvements to cloth physics and particle effects.
Anything more is just the game's technical lead jerking himself off.
Exactly. There are plenty of advances to be made, though most of them are going to be much subtler than the generational advances we're used to.
Switch: 3947-4890-9293
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Its the subtle changes that will make the biggest difference in bringing a world alive.
Individually rendered and calculated leaves, affected by wind and physical forces, sand behaving like sand, water flowing properly.
Now combine all that with an Oculus Rift with a consumer level resolution and boom.
+2
darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
I'm telling you guys, lighting is where it's at. I guess for most games lighting would just be a thing you don't notice, but I want some next gen survival horror shit where the lights go out when I crawl down into a sewer tunnel even though the sun is blinding above ground.
Anyway, going over the preliminary launch titles lists, there's nothing that excites me that much. I'll probably end up getting this thing a year or two after release just like I did with the current gen consoles.
Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
Its the subtle changes that will make the biggest difference in bringing a world alive.
Individually rendered and calculated leaves, affected by wind and physical forces, sand behaving like sand, water flowing properly.
Now combine all that with an Oculus Rift with a consumer level resolution and boom.
Problem is, the general public needs to be wowed by a screenshot or five-second clip, or you've lost them. That's hard to do with these more subtle advances.
This is where all the worries about the next generation are stemming from.
Say what you will about the moral or ethical objections to the series, but Call of Duty has been an incredibly reliable experience for years now. It will be good, at minimum. Especially the multiplayer.
Is it arcadey? Yes. Is it shallow and linear? Yes. Does it fetishize military hardware and condone despicable war crimes? Almost always.
But the suite of features it offers is incredibly deep and robust, and it will have an immediately vast player base from day one. Call of Duty Ghosts is the launch title every console wants as a launch title. I think Microsoft were right to push that at the forefront of their presentation, and we can hardly blame them for Activision's hollow belljar of buzzwords and business speak that was their demo.
Its the subtle changes that will make the biggest difference in bringing a world alive.
Individually rendered and calculated leaves, affected by wind and physical forces, sand behaving like sand, water flowing properly.
Now combine all that with an Oculus Rift with a consumer level resolution and boom.
Exactly, physics is the next hurdle for video game tech; taking the technology used in engineering and scientific realms for mapping things like train crashes and impact tests, and bringing it into the realms of mainstream use. Obviously not the same exact programs... those take supercomputers, but next gen iterations of physics engines could begin to shorten the gap.
0
chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
Really I think the impressive "next-gen" stuff for games will be more impressive CPU intensive things like AI, maybe more depth. Graphics will improve but we aren't going to see such an obvious jump as we have in previous console generations.
If AI in general improves I will be pleased as shit.
The problem is figuring out what qualifies as "better AI", sadly--it's not always evident. Half-Life 2 broke a lot of ground, but it had predictable, unoriginal AI when it came out (of course, its predecessor blazed a trail in that area). But it works because so much of the game is set in corridors, or makes use of enemy waves (like a lot of games).
Now, having smart, plausible AI in something like Battlefield is immediately evident--and it doesn't even need to be comparable to gamer multiplayer behavior (as hilarious as it is in multiplayer, jets racking up kills by skimming the ground would suck in singlelpayer), just better than the abysmal behavior we've got now.
Well, while an unoriginal / uninspired AI can be a bad thing, a game can also be constructed with that in mind to make it not noticeable or not a problem at all.
Which is exactly what HL2 does (and a lot of other games try to do). It doesn't take a lot to have stupid guys in shoot down hallways or shoot whatever comes through a doorway, or attack in waves. It's definitely a solution.
Really I think the impressive "next-gen" stuff for games will be more impressive CPU intensive things like AI, maybe more depth. Graphics will improve but we aren't going to see such an obvious jump as we have in previous console generations.
If AI in general improves I will be pleased as shit.
The problem is figuring out what qualifies as "better AI", sadly--it's not always evident. Half-Life 2 broke a lot of ground, but it had predictable, unoriginal AI when it came out (of course, its predecessor blazed a trail in that area). But it works because so much of the game is set in corridors, or makes use of enemy waves (like a lot of games).
Now, having smart, plausible AI in something like Battlefield is immediately evident--and it doesn't even need to be comparable to gamer multiplayer behavior (as hilarious as it is in multiplayer, jets racking up kills by skimming the ground would suck in singlelpayer), just better than the abysmal behavior we've got now.
Just wondering if you downloaded Minerva yet.
Because MAN that lets the HL2 AI show off. They're pretty impressive at times if you let them out of their corridors.
I've had Minerva shown to me (I have..pretty much zero interest in HL2 now, or the episodes--just gone over them too much), and it's both an impressive improvement and a shining example of the vanilla's AI tendency to stand still and shoot in the direction of the enemy.
It's the same AI. The exact same AI.
And it tends, on hard, to shoot then dash to cover. I've seen it run or hold a good defensive position instead of following the player more times than I could count. It can remember where better guns are and go for them, form squads to hunt the player down, and it often tries to attack when it guesses you'd be reloading.
I really think that in a decade the current crop of 3d games will look just as crude as PS2 games do now. We aren't even close to true photorealism yet. Just like in years past, the only games we have now that will stand the test of time visually are those with a strong art direction.
Not true. We're reaching peak graphics, if not already passed it.
I can never tell if people are just trolling with this image or just dumb.
Also I think the subD thing isn't LOD but tessellation which is new for consoles.
Well, I don't know anything about advances in rendering so it makes sense to me absent a better explanation
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
It's not how modeling works. They didn't just take that 60tri model, subdivide it, and get the next step. It's a shitty model that doesn't use the extra 54000 tris at all. You could easily make that last one look considerably better.
There's no way Microsoft or Sony would be stupid enough to come to market right before the holidays with a product that's more expensive than a new IPad.
Hi, let me introduce you to Surface
Surface is a no-joke computer
iPad is an oversized phone that doesn't make phone calls
I really think that in a decade the current crop of 3d games will look just as crude as PS2 games do now. We aren't even close to true photorealism yet. Just like in years past, the only games we have now that will stand the test of time visually are those with a strong art direction.
Not true. We're reaching peak graphics, if not already passed it.
I can never tell if people are just trolling with this image or just dumb.
Also I think the subD thing isn't LOD but tessellation which is new for consoles.
If the phrase 'peak graphics' isn't a clear satire, then I don't know what is.
I really think that in a decade the current crop of 3d games will look just as crude as PS2 games do now. We aren't even close to true photorealism yet. Just like in years past, the only games we have now that will stand the test of time visually are those with a strong art direction.
Not true. We're reaching peak graphics, if not already passed it.
I can never tell if people are just trolling with this image or just dumb.
Also I think the subD thing isn't LOD but tessellation which is new for consoles.
If the phrase 'peak graphics' isn't a clear satire, then I don't know what is.
I just see it so often I can just never tell anymore.
The image I wanted to use but couldn't find was the PCGamer front cover from, like, 1999 or something that was 'Graphics literally can't get better than this' right beneath some poly'd to fuck model from Unreal or something.
Its the subtle changes that will make the biggest difference in bringing a world alive.
Individually rendered and calculated leaves, affected by wind and physical forces, sand behaving like sand, water flowing properly.
Now combine all that with an Oculus Rift with a consumer level resolution and boom.
From what I've heard the big problem with the Oculus Rift is that the screen resolution is abysmal...
Do people really believe the Oculus Rift will be anything but an interesting novelty? It will remain niche for the same reason 3D cinema ebbs and flows with the same lack of ubiquity. People don't want to put shit on their faces.
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About the only thing I'm looking forward to is that, FINALLY, the upgrade to consoles will allow for PC games that aren't so enormously mired in the limitations of ancient consoles. In other words, I'm looking forward to much more open environments, instead of being constantly hemmed in due to the RAM limits of consoles. It was a lot better with the PS360 gen than back with the Xbox, but it's still painfully easy to bump up against the edges of many game worlds currently.
Old PA forum lookalike style for the new forums | My ko-fi donation thing.
Skyrim is like 5 gigs. What devilry made that possible?
I guess in ten years we'll be saying the same things, though.
How the fuck did Valve manage to get Half Life 4 onto a single data shard? Those things only hold five terabytes, they're tiny!
but wouldn't things like photorealistic games take a zillion years to make and have budgets so high that either prices or sales or both would have to grow enormously?
Not true. We're reaching peak graphics, if not already passed it.
Fish that avoid you using AI? Literally a feature of Mario 64.
Low fidelity models that improve detail the closer you get to them? That's just LOD meshes, guys, not 'subD'. Don't make up a new phrase for an old thing.
Mantling over low objects and obstacles? Christ, we'd be going back to the 2D era for that shit.
Fluid dynamics? Interactive smoke? Real-time lighting?
Wait, real-time lighting? Are you sure...
Hey, you can't prove that Call of Duty Ghosts doesn't take place in a deciduous region of Tatooine.
I am fully aware that this and the release date of New Years Eve 2013 are placeholders and it is 99.5% certain we are not going to see such a thing, but I still thought it interesting that Amazon.co.uk decided to start the preorder price of the Xbox One at £599 (US$900), that when it came to hedging your bets and guaranteeing you don't offer a price that turns out to be lower than the RRP they thought there was an outside chance the console could sell for this much.
I am fully aware that this and the release date of New Years Eve 2013 are placeholders and it is 99.5% certain we are not going to see such a thing, but I still thought it interesting that Amazon.co.uk decided to start the preorder price of the Xbox One at £599 (US$900), that when it came to hedging your bets and guaranteeing you don't offer a price that turns out to be lower than the RRP they thought there was an outside chance the console could sell for this much.
The PS4 preorders were also at £599, it's literally proof that they don't have a clue what the RRP will end up as.
Oh, so it is. I am inattentive. Sorry.
Which is exactly what HL2 does (and a lot of other games try to do). It doesn't take a lot to have stupid guys in shoot down hallways or shoot whatever comes through a doorway, or attack in waves. It's definitely a solution.
I've had Minerva shown to me (I have..pretty much zero interest in HL2 now, or the episodes--just gone over them too much), and it's both an impressive improvement and a shining example of the vanilla's AI tendency to stand still and shoot in the direction of the enemy.
If they weren't shapist they'd try circles or maybe even squares! They're holding us back with this unjust adherence to 3 sides!
I don't think so. By the time HL4 comes about, we'll be dealing with point-to-point memory transfers. Terabytes will be used for car keys. Of course, none of us will be alive either...
We've already passed "peak polygon" for most types of games (especially taking normal maps into account), and we're probably on the cusp of passing "peak lighting." This gen, we saw basically every single lighting effect you need to make a mostly physically correctly lit scene--SSAO, GI, radiosity, material shaders, translucency, etc. I say "mostly" because there's still more progress to be made, but the visual impact will be marginal (e.g. the first global light bounce has a huge effect, the second some, and the third is barely noticed by most viewers). The only limitation was you couldn't put them all together at once. Next gen, you will.
PSN ID: fearsomepirate
Most of the other big advances still to come are nowhere near as showy or immediate in presentation.
Dirt will be dirt, volumetric fog and sand, flowing water and crumbling walls. Those sorts of things, along with improvements to cloth physics and particle effects.
Anything more is just the game's technical lead jerking himself off.
Exactly. There are plenty of advances to be made, though most of them are going to be much subtler than the generational advances we're used to.
Individually rendered and calculated leaves, affected by wind and physical forces, sand behaving like sand, water flowing properly.
Now combine all that with an Oculus Rift with a consumer level resolution and boom.
Anyway, going over the preliminary launch titles lists, there's nothing that excites me that much. I'll probably end up getting this thing a year or two after release just like I did with the current gen consoles.
Problem is, the general public needs to be wowed by a screenshot or five-second clip, or you've lost them. That's hard to do with these more subtle advances.
This is where all the worries about the next generation are stemming from.
Is it arcadey? Yes. Is it shallow and linear? Yes. Does it fetishize military hardware and condone despicable war crimes? Almost always.
But the suite of features it offers is incredibly deep and robust, and it will have an immediately vast player base from day one. Call of Duty Ghosts is the launch title every console wants as a launch title. I think Microsoft were right to push that at the forefront of their presentation, and we can hardly blame them for Activision's hollow belljar of buzzwords and business speak that was their demo.
Exactly, physics is the next hurdle for video game tech; taking the technology used in engineering and scientific realms for mapping things like train crashes and impact tests, and bringing it into the realms of mainstream use. Obviously not the same exact programs... those take supercomputers, but next gen iterations of physics engines could begin to shorten the gap.
It's the same AI. The exact same AI.
And it tends, on hard, to shoot then dash to cover. I've seen it run or hold a good defensive position instead of following the player more times than I could count. It can remember where better guns are and go for them, form squads to hunt the player down, and it often tries to attack when it guesses you'd be reloading.
Why I fear the ocean.
I can never tell if people are just trolling with this image or just dumb.
Also I think the subD thing isn't LOD but tessellation which is new for consoles.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Bad model and bad example.
Surface is a no-joke computer
iPad is an oversized phone that doesn't make phone calls
If the phrase 'peak graphics' isn't a clear satire, then I don't know what is.
I just see it so often I can just never tell anymore.
From what I've heard the big problem with the Oculus Rift is that the screen resolution is abysmal...
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The devkit resolution is low, the devkit might see an upgraded resolution, while the consumer version is definitely getting an upgraded resolution.
Do people really believe the Oculus Rift will be anything but an interesting novelty? It will remain niche for the same reason 3D cinema ebbs and flows with the same lack of ubiquity. People don't want to put shit on their faces.