The XBox one requires online. Deal with it. It the same as every freaking MMO RPG.
12 years ago, the same argument was made about Microsoft hating the gamers by not including dial-up with their online strategy. I remember the gaming community also complaining about voice chat. Microsoft had a vision and they executed. Now all of these console innovation are a standard in the gaming industry.
You don't have an internet connection, go buy a PS4 or stick with the X360. End of the story. Can we talk about games now?
Aight, I have a question. I promise this isn't intended as bait.
It seems pretty clear at this point that the kinect is a dog. Regardless of whether you think it's cool (I think it's cool! I've never used it! I have nothing against it) it failed to have any real impact on gaming and is broadly unpopular. So why are Microsoft so committed to it, to the point where they'll put an extra $100 on the pricetag of their new console to try and increase its market penetration? Sony did the same thing with blu-ray, but blu ray wasn't a complete dog. There has to be a reason other than "they think it's super cool" or some stupid conspiracy theory about datamining.
+3
Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
MS is defining "guaranteed internet connection, guaranteed cloud computing, guaranteed kinect availability" as distinguishers that sony cannot not provide. they don't want these things to provide a little extra fluff (raise your hand to reload!), but to meaningfully inform game design.
The Kinect is used to communicate to zombies (a loud noise is enough to get their attention), and there are motion controls as well. You know how games often force you to wiggle the stick when enemies grab you? Well, in Dead Rising 3, you can shake your arms to get them off.
Raising my arms to waggle off zombies? Oh my, this truly is a revolution in gameplay. Well so much for that point and with most games being multiplatform, you can expect most developers to do with the kinect what they did last time: utterly ignore it or use it for trivial voice commands.
As to the cloud point you made you really need to start with this as required reading:
And also note that when interviewed on this subject things like real time dynamic calculations such as the one you think of for Quantum Break is beyond the clouds capabilities (for the reasons given by Eurogamer). Most of his uses he gave for it were things that didn't need moment to moment actual calculations, such as lightning models and similar. Anything that requires instant or dynamic feedback/calculations, flatly works poorly with the way the cloud works. Especially depending on how long it takes the player to do it or if the player needs to be involved in some way (changing the calculation afterwards by say trying to move through something would break it entirely).
Cloud computing is really just a fancy buzzword for "We tried to think of a way to justify this online bullshit, so hopefully you buy this and don't think about it like the modders that hacked apart Sim City did".
the premise of that article was that latency and bandwidth would limit many applications to game computing. and that's totally true! you wouldn't be able to remotely render dynamic graphics, for instance.
but there are applications that could work. high-fidelity physics simulations and AI are incredibly expensive operations from a computational standpoint, and, depending on the application, are absolutely within the constraints of latency/ bandwidth.
the quantum break example, for instance, might allow a player to arrange the scene during the "freeze frame," would package and ship the deltas to the cloud, would simulate the scene advanced in time, and would ship back the key information. there's no reason that this would fail the constraints of latency/ bandwidth.
So, here's how Microsoft themselves have said that their design process arrived at requiring a connection.
When Microsoft was speccing out the machine, they ran up against hard performance limits due to the comparatively glacial read-speed of the disc drive. After some investigation they determined that the best way to deal with these issues would be to force every game to install and run entirely from the hard drive. Unfortunately, that would open them up to piracy on a tremendous scale. So they made it phone home, assuming that most of their market at this point has an internet connection that can handle sending an auth code once a day.
Once they require the internet connection, it opens them up to a lot of other design possibilities - the cloud stuff, a direct digital download platform that they can guarantee everyone has access to, being able to stream your feed to Twitch at any point, etc. There's a lot of stuff you can actually do with this. Removing used games is a (very nice) side-benefit, and one I personally think they should have just gone with outright, akin to Steam, rather than the wishy-washy half and half crap they're pulling now.
yeah, what?
I mean it's probably a little slower, but when comparing a handful of milliseconds, it doesn't really hold up.
I am really curious, but does anyone believe given the pre and now post-E3 masterclass in utterly incompetent public relations, that Microsoft have not fallen into the same Sony 2006 hubris trap?
Because I honestly cant see how any other interpretation is now valid.
The Don Mattrick interview explained everything. It's not hubris, it's the fact that Microsoft doesn't understand games.
Mattrick said that they designed the Xbox One for the future. That's a fair decision, it's going to have to last ten years maybe. But the way he explained that decision said everything. He talked about how when the Xbox 1 came out, people were only designing single player games, because Xbox Live didn't exist and home networking was still developing. Then they started having home connectivity, with the Halo LAN systems etc. And couch multiplayer. Then, once the internet became ubiquitous, people started playing multiplayer over the internet.
Fundamentally, he sees single player games in the same light as black and white films. Old technology to be supplanted by color. He doesn't understand that while black and white was necessitated by the limitations of early film, once technology advanced to give us color film, black and white became an artistic choice at the side, not an obsolete bottom rung on the ladder.
He said it himself. Most people play multiplayer games now. Most people are connected to the internet. He sees people who don't do these things as being primitive and behind. That's why his Xbox 360 comment is so hollow. Of course he would recommend an old console for people without internet. Because he believes this is a linear progression, and that having internet is inherently better than not having it. Or that multiplayer games are inherently more advanced than single player ones.
It's a complete misunderstanding of how art works. And is speaks to Microsoft's unfamiliarity with artistic endeavor. For them, Windows 8 is simply better than Windows 7, because it is one more. Microsoft's entire history is built upon iteration, and progressive improvement in feature set and functionality. Their products all render the previous one obsolete because it's the same, plus more stuff. But that thinking doesn't apply to art. Which is why they have completely misjudged how games work.
of course microsoft understands games and understands technology. they're the largest, most successful, software company in the world. what is this?
MS has made a decision on this console to maintain the fundamental use case for the device - the system specs, if you will - including an active internet connection and an active kinect. there are advantages to developers in being able to guarantee these things, since they can confidently code to a specific use case and not need to work to a variety of possible configurations.
this is especially important as regards the cloud computing aspects - most of the references to it in this thread assume that it will just function as optional features or window dressing to a game that would be compete without it. microsoft's intention with it is to have it fundamentally integrated into the game design, and to do that they need to guarantee to devs that developing a game around it is within consumer expectation. this goes the same for kinect.
in your analogy, microsoft is giving devs an out for supporting older systems or use cases. at some point, you don't demand that developers support voodoo cards anymore.
If MS makes "the infinite power of the cloud" a real thing, then they are even more screwed. The number of people that would be affected by the 24hr or even 1hr phone home limits is tiny compared to the number of people for which their connection couldn't keep up with real time use of the cloud since the latter is basically everyone at some time or another.
In reality the could will be used for balance patches, roster updates and things of a similar nature. It will be essentially asynchronous.
For example this is how the devs described the way Forza uses the could for AI. It downloads from the cloud files that contain parameters that are fed to the AI. Say "Aggressiveness=8, Reaction Time =3, Seeing the Correct Line =7, etc.". It also uploads the same type of file based on how you drive. That's it. The cloud can't be used for the actual AI because latency will never be low enough and predictable enough for it to work.
And yeah, even this cloud usage a big step towards making games a service rather than a product. There are big advantages to the publishers in making that change, I'm not sure that gamers should welcome it.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
So, here's how Microsoft themselves have said that their design process arrived at requiring a connection.
When Microsoft was speccing out the machine, they ran up against hard performance limits due to the comparatively glacial read-speed of the disc drive. After some investigation they determined that the best way to deal with these issues would be to force every game to install and run entirely from the hard drive. Unfortunately, that would open them up to piracy on a tremendous scale. So they made it phone home, assuming that most of their market at this point has an internet connection that can handle sending an auth code once a day.
Once they require the internet connection, it opens them up to a lot of other design possibilities - the cloud stuff, a direct digital download platform that they can guarantee everyone has access to, being able to stream your feed to Twitch at any point, etc. There's a lot of stuff you can actually do with this. Removing used games is a (very nice) side-benefit, and one I personally think they should have just gone with outright, akin to Steam, rather than the wishy-washy half and half crap they're pulling now.
yeah, what?
I mean it's probably a little slower, but when comparing a handful of milliseconds, it doesn't really hold up.
It's not "a little slower." A 7200RPM drive has roughly five times the transfer rate of a 6x Blu-Ray drive.
Salvation122 on
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
MS is defining "guaranteed internet connection, guaranteed cloud computing, guaranteed kinect availability" as distinguishers that sony cannot not provide. they don't want these things to provide a little extra fluff (raise your hand to reload!), but to meaningfully inform game design.
The Kinect is used to communicate to zombies (a loud noise is enough to get their attention), and there are motion controls as well. You know how games often force you to wiggle the stick when enemies grab you? Well, in Dead Rising 3, you can shake your arms to get them off.
Raising my arms to waggle off zombies? Oh my, this truly is a revolution in gameplay. Well so much for that point and with most games being multiplatform, you can expect most developers to do with the kinect what they did last time: utterly ignore it or use it for trivial voice commands.
As to the cloud point you made you really need to start with this as required reading:
And also note that when interviewed on this subject things like real time dynamic calculations such as the one you think of for Quantum Break is beyond the clouds capabilities (for the reasons given by Eurogamer). Most of his uses he gave for it were things that didn't need moment to moment actual calculations, such as lightning models and similar. Anything that requires instant or dynamic feedback/calculations, flatly works poorly with the way the cloud works. Especially depending on how long it takes the player to do it or if the player needs to be involved in some way (changing the calculation afterwards by say trying to move through something would break it entirely).
Cloud computing is really just a fancy buzzword for "We tried to think of a way to justify this online bullshit, so hopefully you buy this and don't think about it like the modders that hacked apart Sim City did".
the premise of that article was that latency and bandwidth would limit many applications to game computing. and that's totally true! you wouldn't be able to remotely render dynamic graphics, for instance.
but there are applications that could work. high-fidelity physics simulations and AI are incredibly expensive operations from a computational standpoint, and, depending on the application, are absolutely within the constraints of latency/ bandwidth.
If they aren't required moment to moment, otherwise latency absolutely will screw these up. Actually physics is something that the interview with the Microsoft guy largely ruled out, except pre calculated stuff - like lighting models.
In effect, anything moment to moment is out of the question. You can use it for many other applications, but I am not convinced that "cloud" and "shit dedicated servers have been doing for years, but we weren't trying to sell it as anything overly fancy" aren't the same thing.
the quantum break example, for instance, might allow a player to arrange the scene during the "freeze frame," would package and ship the deltas to the cloud, would simulate the scene advanced in time, and would ship back the key information. there's no reason that this would fail the constraints of latency/ bandwidth.
I honestly don't see cloud computing being at all relevant in Quantum Break unless it does some truly insane things. For example, let's look at a game I went bananas over when I saw them do it. Battlefield 4 is going to be on PC, 360 and PS4 - two of which without cloud computing and that game has some of the most amazing destruction I have ever seen in a video game ever. They blew up a fucking skyscraper in real time, in a multiplayer game, with 64 players in it. If Remedy can't pull something similar off while not dealing with 64 people at the same time with just the system capable of doing that, then I don't honestly know what to say.
I am honestly not buying anything to do with "cloud computing" as it is a meaningless buzz word that EA tried to sell to fool people into thinking online DRM was really for their benefit. It needs to prove itself meaningfully with an actual provable example for me.
The Kinect is used to communicate to zombies (a loud noise is enough to get their attention), and there are motion controls as well. You know how games often force you to wiggle the stick when enemies grab you? Well, in Dead Rising 3, you can shake your arms to get them off.
Raising my arms to waggle off zombies? Oh my, this truly is a revolution in gameplay. Well so much for that point and with most games being multiplatform, you can expect most developers to do with the kinect what they did last time: utterly ignore it or use it for trivial voice commands.
Mom: "Bobby, ... what are you doing in there?"
Bobby: "I'm fighting off zombies, Mom, leave me alone."
Mother goes downstairs.
Dad: "So?"
Mom [sighing]: "He's masturbating again."
So, here's how Microsoft themselves have said that their design process arrived at requiring a connection.
When Microsoft was speccing out the machine, they ran up against hard performance limits due to the comparatively glacial read-speed of the disc drive. After some investigation they determined that the best way to deal with these issues would be to force every game to install and run entirely from the hard drive. Unfortunately, that would open them up to piracy on a tremendous scale. So they made it phone home, assuming that most of their market at this point has an internet connection that can handle sending an auth code once a day.
Once they require the internet connection, it opens them up to a lot of other design possibilities - the cloud stuff, a direct digital download platform that they can guarantee everyone has access to, being able to stream your feed to Twitch at any point, etc. There's a lot of stuff you can actually do with this. Removing used games is a (very nice) side-benefit, and one I personally think they should have just gone with outright, akin to Steam, rather than the wishy-washy half and half crap they're pulling now.
yeah, what?
I mean it's probably a little slower, but when comparing a handful of milliseconds, it doesn't really hold up.
It's not "a little slower." A 7200RPM drive has roughly five times the transfer rate of a 6x Blu-Ray drive.
and yet still more than fast enough to play any fighting game that requires split second timing.
Aight, I have a question. I promise this isn't intended as bait.
It seems pretty clear at this point that the kinect is a dog. Regardless of whether you think it's cool (I think it's cool! I've never used it! I have nothing against it) it failed to have any real impact on gaming and is broadly unpopular. So why are Microsoft so committed to it, to the point where they'll put an extra $100 on the pricetag of their new console to try and increase its market penetration? Sony did the same thing with blu-ray, but blu ray wasn't a complete dog. There has to be a reason other than "they think it's super cool" or some stupid conspiracy theory about datamining.
i don't own a kinect 1 and nothing i've seen about it appeals to me. the games are gimmicky and no one really knows what to do with it besides dancing games.
however
there are some technologies that are useless gimmicks right up to the point where suddenly they're amazingly useful and you didn't know how you lived without them. for decades, virtual reality has been a shitty joke, but suddenly the oculus rift looks like it might be legit. another that is kind of on the edge right now is speech recognition with more advanced semantic reasoning.
i have no idea whether devs will find a good use for kinect, but it might be advanced to the point where it really can do cool minority-report style interfaces, or things like simulated scene 3d with head tracking.
i mean - it can actually detect your heartbeat with IR and can do that to 5 people in the scene. i don't know any dev who really has a plan to capitalize on that sort of thing - exercise or horror games might see some application - but the possibility is pretty cool.
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
The Kinect is used to communicate to zombies (a loud noise is enough to get their attention), and there are motion controls as well. You know how games often force you to wiggle the stick when enemies grab you? Well, in Dead Rising 3, you can shake your arms to get them off.
Raising my arms to waggle off zombies? Oh my, this truly is a revolution in gameplay. Well so much for that point and with most games being multiplatform, you can expect most developers to do with the kinect what they did last time: utterly ignore it or use it for trivial voice commands.
Mom: "Bobby, ... what are you doing in there?"
Bobby: "I'm fighting off zombies, Mom, leave me alone."
Mother goes downstairs.
Dad: "So?"
Mom [sighing]: "He's masturbating again."
Dad: "Well the kids are calling it the xbone. Maybe we should tell Fox News?"
The next day
Fox News: "Microsofts new gaming console, is it turning your child into a sexual deviant?"
Aight, I have a question. I promise this isn't intended as bait.
It seems pretty clear at this point that the kinect is a dog. Regardless of whether you think it's cool (I think it's cool! I've never used it! I have nothing against it) it failed to have any real impact on gaming and is broadly unpopular. So why are Microsoft so committed to it, to the point where they'll put an extra $100 on the pricetag of their new console to try and increase its market penetration? Sony did the same thing with blu-ray, but blu ray wasn't a complete dog. There has to be a reason other than "they think it's super cool" or some stupid conspiracy theory about datamining.
The new kinect is miles ahead of the old one. There is a wired video that got linked a few times where they showed the capabilities off, and it does all sorts of stuff that simply has no analog elsewhere.
Right now it is untapped potential. Calling out voice commands in a tactical shooter or "waggling" is all people are thinking right now... but when you have a device that can track six people in full detail at the same time, can read your pulse from microfluctuations in the skin, can track your level of attention to the screen, and can read your mood and body posture...
I really hope we get the best goddamned survival horror game ever made out of that combination of ingredients.
I hope that an actual personal trainer program comes along that fulfills everything Wii Fit said it would without a balance board or a heart rate monitor, or having to hold a wiimote or put it on my pocket.
I want a party game that tears the shit out of mario party from all the extra sensory inputs it has, with nobody having to hold a controller to pull it off.
And a whole bunch of other options that I cannot think of because I am not a creative game developer type. It's a hell of a tool, by no means a "dog," and as someone who loves watching the advancement of technology Kinect is pretty darn neat.
SW-4158-3990-6116
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
So, Aegeri. Do you actually want to buy the Xbox One? Are you going to buy the Xbox One? Are you trying to discourage people from buying the Xbox One? Where are you going with all this? Are you just venting?
Been trying to figure out your angle here for a while, seeing as you've been one the most vocal critical persons toward the console in the thread(s)...
I know you like the 360, but just. yeah.
What's the deal?
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
So, here's how Microsoft themselves have said that their design process arrived at requiring a connection.
When Microsoft was speccing out the machine, they ran up against hard performance limits due to the comparatively glacial read-speed of the disc drive. After some investigation they determined that the best way to deal with these issues would be to force every game to install and run entirely from the hard drive. Unfortunately, that would open them up to piracy on a tremendous scale. So they made it phone home, assuming that most of their market at this point has an internet connection that can handle sending an auth code once a day.
Once they require the internet connection, it opens them up to a lot of other design possibilities - the cloud stuff, a direct digital download platform that they can guarantee everyone has access to, being able to stream your feed to Twitch at any point, etc. There's a lot of stuff you can actually do with this. Removing used games is a (very nice) side-benefit, and one I personally think they should have just gone with outright, akin to Steam, rather than the wishy-washy half and half crap they're pulling now.
yeah, what?
I mean it's probably a little slower, but when comparing a handful of milliseconds, it doesn't really hold up.
It's not "a little slower." A 7200RPM drive has roughly five times the transfer rate of a 6x Blu-Ray drive.
and yet still more than fast enough to play any fighting game that requires split second timing.
That's... that's not how that works.
Something like a fighting game would preload all the assets required into memory, because the assets are tiny. Something like Watch Dogs or Assassin's Creed, where there are a shitload of assets, will stream chunks of the game to memory from disc. This is what causes pop-in and long load screens. Having a hard drive available will significantly reduce both these problems comparable to reading from a disc. Sony's faster RAM will help close the gap a little, but not entirely.
+2
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
So, Aegeri. Do you actually want to buy the Xbox One? Are you going to buy the Xbox One? Are you trying to discourage people from buying the Xbox One? Where are you going with all this? Are you just venting?
Pretty much just venting, seeing as I feel Microsoft have just pissed on 6 odd years of my gaming time and as a customer to become complete idiots. But otherwise there is much fertile discussion and I am hardly going to let Microsoft try to pull a Sim City EA "Shill cloud gaming as the coming of Jesus" when the practical actual reality of the situation is exactly the opposite. Microsoft have pretty much shown me they don't give a shit about non-US markets or consumers in general, but there is always the hope - vague as it is - they might sometime see reason.
I am curious though if Microsoft will see any degree of sanity between now and then, but given their comments eg: Buy a 360 for a non-connected console 8-> I doubt it. They have well and truly got Sonys 2006 hubris, it just amazes me they can't see it.
Edit: And it should be noted that I didn't just like the 360, I absolutely fucking loved it.
So, here's how Microsoft themselves have said that their design process arrived at requiring a connection.
When Microsoft was speccing out the machine, they ran up against hard performance limits due to the comparatively glacial read-speed of the disc drive. After some investigation they determined that the best way to deal with these issues would be to force every game to install and run entirely from the hard drive. Unfortunately, that would open them up to piracy on a tremendous scale. So they made it phone home, assuming that most of their market at this point has an internet connection that can handle sending an auth code once a day.
Once they require the internet connection, it opens them up to a lot of other design possibilities - the cloud stuff, a direct digital download platform that they can guarantee everyone has access to, being able to stream your feed to Twitch at any point, etc. There's a lot of stuff you can actually do with this. Removing used games is a (very nice) side-benefit, and one I personally think they should have just gone with outright, akin to Steam, rather than the wishy-washy half and half crap they're pulling now.
yeah, what?
I mean it's probably a little slower, but when comparing a handful of milliseconds, it doesn't really hold up.
It's not "a little slower." A 7200RPM drive has roughly five times the transfer rate of a 6x Blu-Ray drive.
and yet still more than fast enough to play any fighting game that requires split second timing.
That's... that's not how that works.
Something like a fighting game would preload all the assets required into memory, because the assets are tiny. Something like Watch Dogs or Assassin's Creed, where there are a shitload of assets, will stream chunks of the game to memory from disc. This is what causes pop-in and long load screens. Having a hard drive available will significantly reduce both these problems comparable to reading from a disc. Sony's faster RAM will help close the gap a little, but not entirely.
ok, I'll take your word on it .... but I've never had what I would consider a huge load time on any game I've played recently
I suppose that could be a product of my years in Norrath though.
So, Aegeri. Do you actually want to buy the Xbox One? Are you going to buy the Xbox One? Are you trying to discourage people from buying the Xbox One? Where are you going with all this? Are you just venting?
Pretty much just venting, seeing as I feel Microsoft have just pissed on 6 odd years of my gaming time and as a customer to become complete idiots. But otherwise there is much fertile discussion and I am hardly going to let Microsoft try to pull a Sim City EA "Shill cloud gaming as the coming of Jesus" when the practical actual reality of the situation is exactly the opposite.
I am curious though if Microsoft will see any degree of sanity between now and then, but given their comments eg: Buy a 360 for a non-connected console 8-> I doubt it. They have well and truly got Sonys 2006 hubris, it just amazes me they can't see it.
Edit: And it should be noted that I didn't just like the 360, I absolutely fucking loved it.
I think you are wrong and I would love to revisit this thread 2 years from now to see what happens. I think people hate DRM because of server issue like in Simcity and Diablo III. Xbox live is solid as a rock. I have never seen it go down due to heavy traffic. I have seen EA and Blizzard server suffer from high usage but the Microsoft one? never.
Either way, I think the gaming community is making a big fuzz about very small stuff. If you don't like the Microsoft policies, you sure are welcome to buy a PS4. Have fun with your hosted by crappy user broadband connection server while I'll be playing on dedicated server.
Since its announcement, there has been some confusion over the details of sharing your Xbox One game library with up to ten "family members." Mehdi couldn't give comprehensive details but he did clarify some things.
For one, a family member doesn't have to be a "blood relative," he said, eliminating the extremely unlikely possibility that the Xbox One would include a built-in blood testing kit. For another, they don't have to live in the primary owner's house—I could name a friend that lives 3,000 miles away as one of my "family members" Mehdi said.
You'll be able to link other Xbox Live accounts as having shared access to your library when you first set up a system, and will also be able to add them later on (though specific details of how you manage these relationships is still not being discussed). The only limitation, it seems, is that only one person can be playing the shared copy of a single game at any given time. All in all, this does sound like a pretty convenient feature that's more workable than simply passing discs around amongst friends who are actually in your area.
Wait, so I can let a friend "borrow" a game without actually having to physically hand him the game? That makes Sony's tutorial seem downright cumbersome in comparison.
Also, the noise-reactive stuff in Dead Rising 3 sounds fucking awesome (no pun intended). Moving my upper body to shake off zombies? That sounds awesome. Not something I HAVE to do, but something I CAN do? Great. It means I can save my A button from an early grave. And my wife who doesn't have the muscle memory to know exactly which button is which without sometimes looking at the screen? Problem solved.
Yeah, all these "problems" with the Xbox One really suck. But hey, Homer said it best: the lesson is "never try."
If the game hadn't gone all dark and gritty to try to appeal to CoD players (seriously, they couldn't have found a way to make me less interested in it) we would be Harlem Shaking them off.
Dead Rising was already dark and gritty. It was also fucking weird and had some great moments of hilarity. They already said DR3 will have humor. Unless I missed the parts of the other two games where it was a non-stop slapstick comedy I don't know what you're getting at here.
So, Aegeri. Do you actually want to buy the Xbox One? Are you going to buy the Xbox One? Are you trying to discourage people from buying the Xbox One? Where are you going with all this? Are you just venting?
Pretty much just venting, seeing as I feel Microsoft have just pissed on 6 odd years of my gaming time and as a customer to become complete idiots. But otherwise there is much fertile discussion and I am hardly going to let Microsoft try to pull a Sim City EA "Shill cloud gaming as the coming of Jesus" when the practical actual reality of the situation is exactly the opposite.
I am curious though if Microsoft will see any degree of sanity between now and then, but given their comments eg: Buy a 360 for a non-connected console 8-> I doubt it. They have well and truly got Sonys 2006 hubris, it just amazes me they can't see it.
Edit: And it should be noted that I didn't just like the 360, I absolutely fucking loved it.
I think you are wrong and I would love to revisit this thread 2 years from now to see what happens. I think people hate DRM because of server issue like in Simcity and Diablo III. Xbox live is solid as a rock. I have never seen it go down due to heavy traffic. I have seen EA and Blizzard server suffer from high usage but the Microsoft one? never.
Either way, I think the gaming community is making a big fuzz about very small stuff. If you don't like the Microsoft policies, you sure are welcome to buy a PS4. Have fun with your hosted by crappy user broadband connection server while I'll be playing on dedicated server.
So, Aegeri. Do you actually want to buy the Xbox One? Are you going to buy the Xbox One? Are you trying to discourage people from buying the Xbox One? Where are you going with all this? Are you just venting?
Pretty much just venting, seeing as I feel Microsoft have just pissed on 6 odd years of my gaming time and as a customer to become complete idiots. But otherwise there is much fertile discussion and I am hardly going to let Microsoft try to pull a Sim City EA "Shill cloud gaming as the coming of Jesus" when the practical actual reality of the situation is exactly the opposite.
I am curious though if Microsoft will see any degree of sanity between now and then, but given their comments eg: Buy a 360 for a non-connected console 8-> I doubt it. They have well and truly got Sonys 2006 hubris, it just amazes me they can't see it.
Edit: And it should be noted that I didn't just like the 360, I absolutely fucking loved it.
I think you are wrong and I would love to revisit this thread 2 years from now to see what happens. I think people hate DRM because of server issue like in Simcity and Diablo III. Xbox live is solid as a rock. I have never seen it go down due to heavy traffic.
And it also went down last year when Call of Duty came out. Major functions of Xbox live were also not available at the start of this year when the cloud saving completely shit itself, which was extremely inconvenient for me for most of January and February (when it was entirely down).
So, your argument isn't exactly as good as you think.
have seen EA and Blizzard server suffer from high usage but the Microsoft one? never.
Well you are only a link away from seeing reports of it happening!
Have fun with your hosted by crappy user broadband connection server while I'll be playing on dedicated server.
Actually, Sony have announced they are going to be doing that as well - hence why they moved multiplayer behind the PS+ pay wall.
Dead Rising was already dark and gritty. It was also fucking weird and had some great moments of hilarity. They already said DR3 will have humor. Unless I missed the parts of the other two games where it was a non-stop slapstick comedy I don't know what you're getting at here.
You are kidding me right? You never noticed all the fun of dressing up ridiculously, how the entire game is a parody of zombie movie lore, the in references like "Jill's Sandwich Shop", dressing up zombies in Lego heads then running them over with a tricycle and the absolutely off the walls insane plot. For gods sake, the first game is
literally about making infinite meat from zombie cows for fast food chains FFS.
It is the absolute opposite of "dark and gritty" and certainly wasn't designed to appeal to people who like Call of Duty (which is a stated design goal of Dead Rising 3).
Aight, I have a question. I promise this isn't intended as bait.
It seems pretty clear at this point that the kinect is a dog. Regardless of whether you think it's cool (I think it's cool! I've never used it! I have nothing against it) it failed to have any real impact on gaming and is broadly unpopular. So why are Microsoft so committed to it, to the point where they'll put an extra $100 on the pricetag of their new console to try and increase its market penetration? Sony did the same thing with blu-ray, but blu ray wasn't a complete dog. There has to be a reason other than "they think it's super cool" or some stupid conspiracy theory about datamining.
The new kinect is miles ahead of the old one. There is a wired video that got linked a few times where they showed the capabilities off, and it does all sorts of stuff that simply has no analog elsewhere.
Right now it is untapped potential. Calling out voice commands in a tactical shooter or "waggling" is all people are thinking right now... but when you have a device that can track six people in full detail at the same time, can read your pulse from microfluctuations in the skin, can track your level of attention to the screen, and can read your mood and body posture...
I really hope we get the best goddamned survival horror game ever made out of that combination of ingredients.
I hope that an actual personal trainer program comes along that fulfills everything Wii Fit said it would without a balance board or a heart rate monitor, or having to hold a wiimote or put it on my pocket.
I want a party game that tears the shit out of mario party from all the extra sensory inputs it has, with nobody having to hold a controller to pull it off.
And a whole bunch of other options that I cannot think of because I am not a creative game developer type. It's a hell of a tool, by no means a "dog," and as someone who loves watching the advancement of technology Kinect is pretty darn neat.
That's how it's felt to me, like they're really hoping it'll develop to a point where it's installed into everything and they want to piss their mark all over the technology now. I guess they hope that by getting it into 'every' house and getting people used to interacting with it, it'll enable and encourage development of the technology both in hardware (as we're seeing now with Kinect 2 being viable enough for them to push it out with every console) and software, hoping that someone will think of something to do with it. If it pays off, it'll work out great for them. If it doesn't... I guess they'll buy up stuff like Leap and anyone else who's competing.
So, Aegeri. Do you actually want to buy the Xbox One? Are you going to buy the Xbox One? Are you trying to discourage people from buying the Xbox One? Where are you going with all this? Are you just venting?
Pretty much just venting, seeing as I feel Microsoft have just pissed on 6 odd years of my gaming time and as a customer to become complete idiots. But otherwise there is much fertile discussion and I am hardly going to let Microsoft try to pull a Sim City EA "Shill cloud gaming as the coming of Jesus" when the practical actual reality of the situation is exactly the opposite.
I am curious though if Microsoft will see any degree of sanity between now and then, but given their comments eg: Buy a 360 for a non-connected console 8-> I doubt it. They have well and truly got Sonys 2006 hubris, it just amazes me they can't see it.
Edit: And it should be noted that I didn't just like the 360, I absolutely fucking loved it.
I think you are wrong and I would love to revisit this thread 2 years from now to see what happens. I think people hate DRM because of server issue like in Simcity and Diablo III. Xbox live is solid as a rock. I have never seen it go down due to heavy traffic. I have seen EA and Blizzard server suffer from high usage but the Microsoft one? never.
Either way, I think the gaming community is making a big fuzz about very small stuff. If you don't like the Microsoft policies, you sure are welcome to buy a PS4. Have fun with your hosted by crappy user broadband connection server while I'll be playing on dedicated server.
Firstly, thanks for clearing that one up for me Aegeri.
Symtex: With the PS4, they're actually shifting toward a Gaming as Service model when it comes to MP too (specifically, it's going "behind the paywall"). This means that the quality of their multiplayer matchmaking should in theory improve since more revenue can be concentrated into infrastructure.
At no point (that I'm aware of) has Microsoft said that all multiplayer games will exist on their own dedicated servers... and presently even large games on Live don't host matches entirely on dedicated servers; the newer Live service will/may offer a significantly improved matchmaking experience over the present-day service (and parts of that software may trickle down onto the 360), but, yeah.
At a really high level what you are paying for when you go into gold, is the ability to connect to a server that allows you to find matches for a game reliably, including by region, connection, skill, etc...
You're still liable to be put in games hosted by "crappy user broadband connections" though, no matter where you go.
tastydonuts on
“I used to draw, hard to admit that I used to draw...”
Wait, is there confirmation that all multiplayer on PS4 will use dedicated servers? That's one thing I'm very interested in, I love the COD series but hate peer-to-peer matchmaking. If only one platform has the dedicated server option, I'm guessing developers probably won't use it in multiplatform titles. If both PS4 and Xbone have it, it will be much more likely to succeed.
So, here's how Microsoft themselves have said that their design process arrived at requiring a connection.
When Microsoft was speccing out the machine, they ran up against hard performance limits due to the comparatively glacial read-speed of the disc drive. After some investigation they determined that the best way to deal with these issues would be to force every game to install and run entirely from the hard drive. Unfortunately, that would open them up to piracy on a tremendous scale. So they made it phone home, assuming that most of their market at this point has an internet connection that can handle sending an auth code once a day.
Once they require the internet connection, it opens them up to a lot of other design possibilities - the cloud stuff, a direct digital download platform that they can guarantee everyone has access to, being able to stream your feed to Twitch at any point, etc. There's a lot of stuff you can actually do with this. Removing used games is a (very nice) side-benefit, and one I personally think they should have just gone with outright, akin to Steam, rather than the wishy-washy half and half crap they're pulling now.
yeah, what?
I mean it's probably a little slower, but when comparing a handful of milliseconds, it doesn't really hold up.
It's not "a little slower." A 7200RPM drive has roughly five times the transfer rate of a 6x Blu-Ray drive.
and yet still more than fast enough to play any fighting game that requires split second timing.
That's... that's not how that works.
Something like a fighting game would preload all the assets required into memory, because the assets are tiny. Something like Watch Dogs or Assassin's Creed, where there are a shitload of assets, will stream chunks of the game to memory from disc. This is what causes pop-in and long load screens. Having a hard drive available will significantly reduce both these problems comparable to reading from a disc. Sony's faster RAM will help close the gap a little, but not entirely.
ok, I'll take your word on it .... but I've never had what I would consider a huge load time on any game I've played recently
I suppose that could be a product of my years in Norrath though.
You obviously didn't play Skyrim on a 360. (For the record, I didn't either, mostly because I watched someone play it on 360 for like half an hour and went NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.)
For Sony to really utilize that extra 2GB of RAM they've (supposedly, we don't have a confirmation on OS overhead) got, they're going to have to load an extra 2GB that into memory at some point. That's going to take a lot longer. Like, in a completely unrealistic scenario (completely filling all RAM), 20-30 seconds longer than it would if it was reading from a hard drive.
0
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
Dead Rising was already dark and gritty. It was also fucking weird and had some great moments of hilarity. They already said DR3 will have humor. Unless I missed the parts of the other two games where it was a non-stop slapstick comedy I don't know what you're getting at here.
You are kidding me right? You never noticed all the fun of dressing up ridiculously, how the entire game is a parody of zombie movie lore, the in references like "Jill's Sandwich Shop", dressing up zombies in Lego heads then running them over with a tricycle and the absolutely off the walls insane plot. For gods sake, the first game is
literally about making infinite meat from zombie cows for fast food chains FFS.
It is the absolute opposite of "dark and gritty" and certainly wasn't designed to appeal to people who like Call of Duty (which is a stated design goal of Dead Rising 3).
I mean, I was disappointed to be missing out on Dead Rising 3 as a huge fan of the series. Then I heard "dark and gritty", removal of the time limit into an optional mode, "appeal to Call of Duty players" and waggling arms to throw off zombies.
Wait, is there confirmation that all multiplayer on PS4 will use dedicated servers? That's one thing I'm very interested in, I love the COD series but hate peer-to-peer matchmaking. If only one platform has the dedicated server option, I'm guessing developers probably won't use it in multiplatform titles. If both PS4 and Xbone have it, it will be much more likely to succeed.
Nope, but in interviews today they pretty much outright stated they put MP behind a PS+ to generate further revenue so they could invest it into making a better multiplayer experience, exactly what MS did. I don't have a problem with it but its definitely a sticking point for others (understandably). At least free to play games like Planetside 2 will not require PS+ though, which I am not sure will be the case with the xbone and gold.
Dead Rising was already dark and gritty. It was also fucking weird and had some great moments of hilarity. They already said DR3 will have humor. Unless I missed the parts of the other two games where it was a non-stop slapstick comedy I don't know what you're getting at here.
Well, you missed something because Dead Rising is Apocalypse Vaudeville. Dark and gritty? Yeah, no.
So, here's how Microsoft themselves have said that their design process arrived at requiring a connection.
When Microsoft was speccing out the machine, they ran up against hard performance limits due to the comparatively glacial read-speed of the disc drive. After some investigation they determined that the best way to deal with these issues would be to force every game to install and run entirely from the hard drive. Unfortunately, that would open them up to piracy on a tremendous scale. So they made it phone home, assuming that most of their market at this point has an internet connection that can handle sending an auth code once a day.
Once they require the internet connection, it opens them up to a lot of other design possibilities - the cloud stuff, a direct digital download platform that they can guarantee everyone has access to, being able to stream your feed to Twitch at any point, etc. There's a lot of stuff you can actually do with this. Removing used games is a (very nice) side-benefit, and one I personally think they should have just gone with outright, akin to Steam, rather than the wishy-washy half and half crap they're pulling now.
yeah, what?
I mean it's probably a little slower, but when comparing a handful of milliseconds, it doesn't really hold up.
It's not "a little slower." A 7200RPM drive has roughly five times the transfer rate of a 6x Blu-Ray drive.
and yet still more than fast enough to play any fighting game that requires split second timing.
That's... that's not how that works.
Something like a fighting game would preload all the assets required into memory, because the assets are tiny. Something like Watch Dogs or Assassin's Creed, where there are a shitload of assets, will stream chunks of the game to memory from disc. This is what causes pop-in and long load screens. Having a hard drive available will significantly reduce both these problems comparable to reading from a disc. Sony's faster RAM will help close the gap a little, but not entirely.
ok, I'll take your word on it .... but I've never had what I would consider a huge load time on any game I've played recently
I suppose that could be a product of my years in Norrath though.
You obviously didn't play Skyrim on a 360. (For the record, I didn't either, mostly because I watched someone play it on 360 for like half an hour and went NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.)
For Sony to really utilize that extra 2GB of RAM they've (supposedly, we don't have a confirmation on OS overhead) got, they're going to have to load an extra 2GB that into memory at some point. That's going to take a lot longer. Like, in a completely unrealistic scenario (completely filling all RAM), 20-30 seconds longer than it would if it was reading from a hard drive.
They also have faster RAM than the Xb1 though.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
So, Aegeri. Do you actually want to buy the Xbox One? Are you going to buy the Xbox One? Are you trying to discourage people from buying the Xbox One? Where are you going with all this? Are you just venting?
Pretty much just venting, seeing as I feel Microsoft have just pissed on 6 odd years of my gaming time and as a customer to become complete idiots. But otherwise there is much fertile discussion and I am hardly going to let Microsoft try to pull a Sim City EA "Shill cloud gaming as the coming of Jesus" when the practical actual reality of the situation is exactly the opposite.
I am curious though if Microsoft will see any degree of sanity between now and then, but given their comments eg: Buy a 360 for a non-connected console 8-> I doubt it. They have well and truly got Sonys 2006 hubris, it just amazes me they can't see it.
Edit: And it should be noted that I didn't just like the 360, I absolutely fucking loved it.
I think you are wrong and I would love to revisit this thread 2 years from now to see what happens. I think people hate DRM because of server issue like in Simcity and Diablo III. Xbox live is solid as a rock. I have never seen it go down due to heavy traffic.
And it also went down last year when Call of Duty came out. Major functions of Xbox live were also not available at the start of this year when the cloud saving completely shit itself, which was extremely inconvenient for me for most of January and February (when it was entirely down).
So, your argument isn't exactly as good as you think.
have seen EA and Blizzard server suffer from high usage but the Microsoft one? never.
Well you are only a link away from seeing reports of it happening!
Have fun with your hosted by crappy user broadband connection server while I'll be playing on dedicated server.
Actually, Sony have announced they are going to be doing that as well - hence why they moved multiplayer behind the PS+ pay wall.
Dead Rising was already dark and gritty. It was also fucking weird and had some great moments of hilarity. They already said DR3 will have humor. Unless I missed the parts of the other two games where it was a non-stop slapstick comedy I don't know what you're getting at here.
You are kidding me right? You never noticed all the fun of dressing up ridiculously, how the entire game is a parody of zombie movie lore, the in references like "Jill's Sandwich Shop", dressing up zombies in Lego heads then running them over with a tricycle and the absolutely off the walls insane plot. For gods sake, the first game is
literally about making infinite meat from zombie cows for fast food chains FFS.
It is the absolute opposite of "dark and gritty" and certainly wasn't designed to appeal to people who like Call of Duty (which is a stated design goal of Dead Rising 3).
I am happy for you that you have already made your decision. Don't think Sony will be immune to any of the problem mention above even if you are paying for PSN+. I feel there will be a surge of new user flooding the Sony PSN network and it might not be a good thing. I know people think the grass is always green on the other side. Personally, I hate the Dual Shock too much to the PS4 route. Sony didn't show me any game that I was interested in that wasn't multiplatform. From my experience, the multiplayer experience is always better on Xbox. I taught the Sony conference was pretty weak until Jack came out with the famous slide. It was pretty pathetic actually.
Again, I hope you really enjoy your PS4. It going to be a good gaming machine I am sure. I just believe the Xbox one will be a better experience overall.
So, here's how Microsoft themselves have said that their design process arrived at requiring a connection.
When Microsoft was speccing out the machine, they ran up against hard performance limits due to the comparatively glacial read-speed of the disc drive. After some investigation they determined that the best way to deal with these issues would be to force every game to install and run entirely from the hard drive. Unfortunately, that would open them up to piracy on a tremendous scale. So they made it phone home, assuming that most of their market at this point has an internet connection that can handle sending an auth code once a day.
Once they require the internet connection, it opens them up to a lot of other design possibilities - the cloud stuff, a direct digital download platform that they can guarantee everyone has access to, being able to stream your feed to Twitch at any point, etc. There's a lot of stuff you can actually do with this. Removing used games is a (very nice) side-benefit, and one I personally think they should have just gone with outright, akin to Steam, rather than the wishy-washy half and half crap they're pulling now.
yeah, what?
I mean it's probably a little slower, but when comparing a handful of milliseconds, it doesn't really hold up.
It's not "a little slower." A 7200RPM drive has roughly five times the transfer rate of a 6x Blu-Ray drive.
and yet still more than fast enough to play any fighting game that requires split second timing.
That's... that's not how that works.
Something like a fighting game would preload all the assets required into memory, because the assets are tiny. Something like Watch Dogs or Assassin's Creed, where there are a shitload of assets, will stream chunks of the game to memory from disc. This is what causes pop-in and long load screens. Having a hard drive available will significantly reduce both these problems comparable to reading from a disc. Sony's faster RAM will help close the gap a little, but not entirely.
ok, I'll take your word on it .... but I've never had what I would consider a huge load time on any game I've played recently
I suppose that could be a product of my years in Norrath though.
You obviously didn't play Skyrim on a 360. (For the record, I didn't either, mostly because I watched someone play it on 360 for like half an hour and went NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.)
For Sony to really utilize that extra 2GB of RAM they've (supposedly, we don't have a confirmation on OS overhead) got, they're going to have to load an extra 2GB that into memory at some point. That's going to take a lot longer. Like, in a completely unrealistic scenario (completely filling all RAM), 20-30 seconds longer than it would if it was reading from a hard drive.
They also have faster RAM than the Xb1 though.
The RAM isn't the limiting factor in that regard, it's reading the data off the disc. The RAM in both systems is absurdly faster than reading off the disc.
So, here's how Microsoft themselves have said that their design process arrived at requiring a connection.
When Microsoft was speccing out the machine, they ran up against hard performance limits due to the comparatively glacial read-speed of the disc drive. After some investigation they determined that the best way to deal with these issues would be to force every game to install and run entirely from the hard drive. Unfortunately, that would open them up to piracy on a tremendous scale. So they made it phone home, assuming that most of their market at this point has an internet connection that can handle sending an auth code once a day.
Once they require the internet connection, it opens them up to a lot of other design possibilities - the cloud stuff, a direct digital download platform that they can guarantee everyone has access to, being able to stream your feed to Twitch at any point, etc. There's a lot of stuff you can actually do with this. Removing used games is a (very nice) side-benefit, and one I personally think they should have just gone with outright, akin to Steam, rather than the wishy-washy half and half crap they're pulling now.
yeah, what?
I mean it's probably a little slower, but when comparing a handful of milliseconds, it doesn't really hold up.
It's not "a little slower." A 7200RPM drive has roughly five times the transfer rate of a 6x Blu-Ray drive.
and yet still more than fast enough to play any fighting game that requires split second timing.
That's... that's not how that works.
Something like a fighting game would preload all the assets required into memory, because the assets are tiny. Something like Watch Dogs or Assassin's Creed, where there are a shitload of assets, will stream chunks of the game to memory from disc. This is what causes pop-in and long load screens. Having a hard drive available will significantly reduce both these problems comparable to reading from a disc. Sony's faster RAM will help close the gap a little, but not entirely.
ok, I'll take your word on it .... but I've never had what I would consider a huge load time on any game I've played recently
I suppose that could be a product of my years in Norrath though.
You obviously didn't play Skyrim on a 360. (For the record, I didn't either, mostly because I watched someone play it on 360 for like half an hour and went NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.)
For Sony to really utilize that extra 2GB of RAM they've (supposedly, we don't have a confirmation on OS overhead) got, they're going to have to load an extra 2GB that into memory at some point. That's going to take a lot longer. Like, in a completely unrealistic scenario (completely filling all RAM), 20-30 seconds longer than it would if it was reading from a hard drive.
Well if you're just going by raw data transfer rates, yeah it takes time to copy files from a hard drive to physical memory. There's no law, though, that dictates that you must fill up all available memory in your console before proceeding. Smart programming is all about optimizations. Stream the data to the RAM so you can play as you load.
So, here's how Microsoft themselves have said that their design process arrived at requiring a connection.
When Microsoft was speccing out the machine, they ran up against hard performance limits due to the comparatively glacial read-speed of the disc drive. After some investigation they determined that the best way to deal with these issues would be to force every game to install and run entirely from the hard drive. Unfortunately, that would open them up to piracy on a tremendous scale. So they made it phone home, assuming that most of their market at this point has an internet connection that can handle sending an auth code once a day.
Once they require the internet connection, it opens them up to a lot of other design possibilities - the cloud stuff, a direct digital download platform that they can guarantee everyone has access to, being able to stream your feed to Twitch at any point, etc. There's a lot of stuff you can actually do with this. Removing used games is a (very nice) side-benefit, and one I personally think they should have just gone with outright, akin to Steam, rather than the wishy-washy half and half crap they're pulling now.
yeah, what?
I mean it's probably a little slower, but when comparing a handful of milliseconds, it doesn't really hold up.
It's not "a little slower." A 7200RPM drive has roughly five times the transfer rate of a 6x Blu-Ray drive.
and yet still more than fast enough to play any fighting game that requires split second timing.
That's... that's not how that works.
Something like a fighting game would preload all the assets required into memory, because the assets are tiny. Something like Watch Dogs or Assassin's Creed, where there are a shitload of assets, will stream chunks of the game to memory from disc. This is what causes pop-in and long load screens. Having a hard drive available will significantly reduce both these problems comparable to reading from a disc. Sony's faster RAM will help close the gap a little, but not entirely.
ok, I'll take your word on it .... but I've never had what I would consider a huge load time on any game I've played recently
I suppose that could be a product of my years in Norrath though.
You obviously didn't play Skyrim on a 360. (For the record, I didn't either, mostly because I watched someone play it on 360 for like half an hour and went NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.)
For Sony to really utilize that extra 2GB of RAM they've (supposedly, we don't have a confirmation on OS overhead) got, they're going to have to load an extra 2GB that into memory at some point. That's going to take a lot longer. Like, in a completely unrealistic scenario (completely filling all RAM), 20-30 seconds longer than it would if it was reading from a hard drive.
never played Skyrim on my 360, but every game I did play was great
question: will you be able to install a game on the PS4?
So, here's how Microsoft themselves have said that their design process arrived at requiring a connection.
When Microsoft was speccing out the machine, they ran up against hard performance limits due to the comparatively glacial read-speed of the disc drive. After some investigation they determined that the best way to deal with these issues would be to force every game to install and run entirely from the hard drive. Unfortunately, that would open them up to piracy on a tremendous scale. So they made it phone home, assuming that most of their market at this point has an internet connection that can handle sending an auth code once a day.
Once they require the internet connection, it opens them up to a lot of other design possibilities - the cloud stuff, a direct digital download platform that they can guarantee everyone has access to, being able to stream your feed to Twitch at any point, etc. There's a lot of stuff you can actually do with this. Removing used games is a (very nice) side-benefit, and one I personally think they should have just gone with outright, akin to Steam, rather than the wishy-washy half and half crap they're pulling now.
yeah, what?
I mean it's probably a little slower, but when comparing a handful of milliseconds, it doesn't really hold up.
It's not "a little slower." A 7200RPM drive has roughly five times the transfer rate of a 6x Blu-Ray drive.
and yet still more than fast enough to play any fighting game that requires split second timing.
That's... that's not how that works.
Something like a fighting game would preload all the assets required into memory, because the assets are tiny. Something like Watch Dogs or Assassin's Creed, where there are a shitload of assets, will stream chunks of the game to memory from disc. This is what causes pop-in and long load screens. Having a hard drive available will significantly reduce both these problems comparable to reading from a disc. Sony's faster RAM will help close the gap a little, but not entirely.
ok, I'll take your word on it .... but I've never had what I would consider a huge load time on any game I've played recently
I suppose that could be a product of my years in Norrath though.
You obviously didn't play Skyrim on a 360. (For the record, I didn't either, mostly because I watched someone play it on 360 for like half an hour and went NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.)
For Sony to really utilize that extra 2GB of RAM they've (supposedly, we don't have a confirmation on OS overhead) got, they're going to have to load an extra 2GB that into memory at some point. That's going to take a lot longer. Like, in a completely unrealistic scenario (completely filling all RAM), 20-30 seconds longer than it would if it was reading from a hard drive.
never played Skyrim on my 360, but every game I did play was great
question: will you be able to install a game on the PS4?
The PS3 had installing, and in a LOT of cases mandatory installations for their gaming. Theres no reason the PS4 wouldn't.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
So, Aegeri. Do you actually want to buy the Xbox One? Are you going to buy the Xbox One? Are you trying to discourage people from buying the Xbox One? Where are you going with all this? Are you just venting?
Pretty much just venting, seeing as I feel Microsoft have just pissed on 6 odd years of my gaming time and as a customer to become complete idiots. But otherwise there is much fertile discussion and I am hardly going to let Microsoft try to pull a Sim City EA "Shill cloud gaming as the coming of Jesus" when the practical actual reality of the situation is exactly the opposite.
I am curious though if Microsoft will see any degree of sanity between now and then, but given their comments eg: Buy a 360 for a non-connected console 8-> I doubt it. They have well and truly got Sonys 2006 hubris, it just amazes me they can't see it.
Edit: And it should be noted that I didn't just like the 360, I absolutely fucking loved it.
I think you are wrong and I would love to revisit this thread 2 years from now to see what happens. I think people hate DRM because of server issue like in Simcity and Diablo III. Xbox live is solid as a rock. I have never seen it go down due to heavy traffic.
And it also went down last year when Call of Duty came out. Major functions of Xbox live were also not available at the start of this year when the cloud saving completely shit itself, which was extremely inconvenient for me for most of January and February (when it was entirely down).
So, your argument isn't exactly as good as you think.
have seen EA and Blizzard server suffer from high usage but the Microsoft one? never.
Well you are only a link away from seeing reports of it happening!
Have fun with your hosted by crappy user broadband connection server while I'll be playing on dedicated server.
Actually, Sony have announced they are going to be doing that as well - hence why they moved multiplayer behind the PS+ pay wall.
Dead Rising was already dark and gritty. It was also fucking weird and had some great moments of hilarity. They already said DR3 will have humor. Unless I missed the parts of the other two games where it was a non-stop slapstick comedy I don't know what you're getting at here.
You are kidding me right? You never noticed all the fun of dressing up ridiculously, how the entire game is a parody of zombie movie lore, the in references like "Jill's Sandwich Shop", dressing up zombies in Lego heads then running them over with a tricycle and the absolutely off the walls insane plot. For gods sake, the first game is
literally about making infinite meat from zombie cows for fast food chains FFS.
It is the absolute opposite of "dark and gritty" and certainly wasn't designed to appeal to people who like Call of Duty (which is a stated design goal of Dead Rising 3).
I am happy for you that you have already made your decision. Don't think Sony will be immune to any of the problem mention above even if you are paying for PSN+. I feel there will be a surge of new user flooding the Sony PSN network and it might not be a good thing. I know people think the grass is always green on the other side. Personally, I hate the Dual Shock too much to the PS4 route. Sony didn't show me any game that I was interested in that wasn't multiplatform. From my experience, the multiplayer experience is always better on Xbox. I taught the Sony conference was pretty weak until Jack came out with the famous slide. It was pretty pathetic actually.
Again, I hope you really enjoy your PS4. It going to be a good gaming machine I am sure. I just believe the Xbox one will be a better experience overall.
The thing is though, if PSN goes down, you can still play games offline on your PS4. If Xbox Live (or your internet connection) goes down, you're stuck with a $500 paperweight.
The same people who said we were whining when they took away Dedicated Servers on PC, and now touting out Dedicated Servers like they are some holy grail.
I've been playing on Dedicated Servers since 1996.
Hmmmm, I never thought of that. With a $500 entry point and terrible PR, XB One sales will be so minimal that there will be super fast downloads. Maybe I should get one.
Thanks for the heads-up Symtex.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
So, Aegeri. Do you actually want to buy the Xbox One? Are you going to buy the Xbox One? Are you trying to discourage people from buying the Xbox One? Where are you going with all this? Are you just venting?
Pretty much just venting, seeing as I feel Microsoft have just pissed on 6 odd years of my gaming time and as a customer to become complete idiots. But otherwise there is much fertile discussion and I am hardly going to let Microsoft try to pull a Sim City EA "Shill cloud gaming as the coming of Jesus" when the practical actual reality of the situation is exactly the opposite.
I am curious though if Microsoft will see any degree of sanity between now and then, but given their comments eg: Buy a 360 for a non-connected console 8-> I doubt it. They have well and truly got Sonys 2006 hubris, it just amazes me they can't see it.
Edit: And it should be noted that I didn't just like the 360, I absolutely fucking loved it.
I think you are wrong and I would love to revisit this thread 2 years from now to see what happens. I think people hate DRM because of server issue like in Simcity and Diablo III. Xbox live is solid as a rock. I have never seen it go down due to heavy traffic.
And it also went down last year when Call of Duty came out. Major functions of Xbox live were also not available at the start of this year when the cloud saving completely shit itself, which was extremely inconvenient for me for most of January and February (when it was entirely down).
So, your argument isn't exactly as good as you think.
have seen EA and Blizzard server suffer from high usage but the Microsoft one? never.
Well you are only a link away from seeing reports of it happening!
Have fun with your hosted by crappy user broadband connection server while I'll be playing on dedicated server.
Actually, Sony have announced they are going to be doing that as well - hence why they moved multiplayer behind the PS+ pay wall.
Dead Rising was already dark and gritty. It was also fucking weird and had some great moments of hilarity. They already said DR3 will have humor. Unless I missed the parts of the other two games where it was a non-stop slapstick comedy I don't know what you're getting at here.
You are kidding me right? You never noticed all the fun of dressing up ridiculously, how the entire game is a parody of zombie movie lore, the in references like "Jill's Sandwich Shop", dressing up zombies in Lego heads then running them over with a tricycle and the absolutely off the walls insane plot. For gods sake, the first game is
literally about making infinite meat from zombie cows for fast food chains FFS.
It is the absolute opposite of "dark and gritty" and certainly wasn't designed to appeal to people who like Call of Duty (which is a stated design goal of Dead Rising 3).
I am happy for you that you have already made your decision. Don't think Sony will be immune to any of the problem mention above even if you are paying for PSN+. I feel there will be a surge of new user flooding the Sony PSN network and it might not be a good thing. I know people think the grass is always green on the other side. Personally, I hate the Dual Shock too much to the PS4 route. Sony didn't show me any game that I was interested in that wasn't multiplatform. From my experience, the multiplayer experience is always better on Xbox. I taught the Sony conference was pretty weak until Jack came out with the famous slide. It was pretty pathetic actually.
Again, I hope you really enjoy your PS4. It going to be a good gaming machine I am sure. I just believe the Xbox one will be a better experience overall.
The thing is though, if PSN goes down, you can still play games offline on your PS4. If Xbox Live goes down, you're stuck with a $500 paperweight.
God forbid you do would do something like : Actually going outside and do something productive with your life...Xbox live or PSN is down, someone call 911....
So, here's how Microsoft themselves have said that their design process arrived at requiring a connection.
When Microsoft was speccing out the machine, they ran up against hard performance limits due to the comparatively glacial read-speed of the disc drive. After some investigation they determined that the best way to deal with these issues would be to force every game to install and run entirely from the hard drive. Unfortunately, that would open them up to piracy on a tremendous scale. So they made it phone home, assuming that most of their market at this point has an internet connection that can handle sending an auth code once a day.
Once they require the internet connection, it opens them up to a lot of other design possibilities - the cloud stuff, a direct digital download platform that they can guarantee everyone has access to, being able to stream your feed to Twitch at any point, etc. There's a lot of stuff you can actually do with this. Removing used games is a (very nice) side-benefit, and one I personally think they should have just gone with outright, akin to Steam, rather than the wishy-washy half and half crap they're pulling now.
yeah, what?
I mean it's probably a little slower, but when comparing a handful of milliseconds, it doesn't really hold up.
It's not "a little slower." A 7200RPM drive has roughly five times the transfer rate of a 6x Blu-Ray drive.
and yet still more than fast enough to play any fighting game that requires split second timing.
That's... that's not how that works.
Something like a fighting game would preload all the assets required into memory, because the assets are tiny. Something like Watch Dogs or Assassin's Creed, where there are a shitload of assets, will stream chunks of the game to memory from disc. This is what causes pop-in and long load screens. Having a hard drive available will significantly reduce both these problems comparable to reading from a disc. Sony's faster RAM will help close the gap a little, but not entirely.
ok, I'll take your word on it .... but I've never had what I would consider a huge load time on any game I've played recently
I suppose that could be a product of my years in Norrath though.
You obviously didn't play Skyrim on a 360. (For the record, I didn't either, mostly because I watched someone play it on 360 for like half an hour and went NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.)
For Sony to really utilize that extra 2GB of RAM they've (supposedly, we don't have a confirmation on OS overhead) got, they're going to have to load an extra 2GB that into memory at some point. That's going to take a lot longer. Like, in a completely unrealistic scenario (completely filling all RAM), 20-30 seconds longer than it would if it was reading from a hard drive.
Well if you're just going by raw data transfer rates, yeah it takes time to copy files from a hard drive to physical memory. There's no law, though, that dictates that you must fill up all available memory in your console before proceeding. Smart programming is all about optimizations. Stream the data to the RAM so you can play as you load.
Oh, I know. That's why I explicitly said it was a completely unrealistic scenario. :P
So, Aegeri. Do you actually want to buy the Xbox One? Are you going to buy the Xbox One? Are you trying to discourage people from buying the Xbox One? Where are you going with all this? Are you just venting?
Pretty much just venting, seeing as I feel Microsoft have just pissed on 6 odd years of my gaming time and as a customer to become complete idiots. But otherwise there is much fertile discussion and I am hardly going to let Microsoft try to pull a Sim City EA "Shill cloud gaming as the coming of Jesus" when the practical actual reality of the situation is exactly the opposite.
I am curious though if Microsoft will see any degree of sanity between now and then, but given their comments eg: Buy a 360 for a non-connected console 8-> I doubt it. They have well and truly got Sonys 2006 hubris, it just amazes me they can't see it.
Edit: And it should be noted that I didn't just like the 360, I absolutely fucking loved it.
I think you are wrong and I would love to revisit this thread 2 years from now to see what happens. I think people hate DRM because of server issue like in Simcity and Diablo III. Xbox live is solid as a rock. I have never seen it go down due to heavy traffic.
And it also went down last year when Call of Duty came out. Major functions of Xbox live were also not available at the start of this year when the cloud saving completely shit itself, which was extremely inconvenient for me for most of January and February (when it was entirely down).
So, your argument isn't exactly as good as you think.
have seen EA and Blizzard server suffer from high usage but the Microsoft one? never.
Well you are only a link away from seeing reports of it happening!
Have fun with your hosted by crappy user broadband connection server while I'll be playing on dedicated server.
Actually, Sony have announced they are going to be doing that as well - hence why they moved multiplayer behind the PS+ pay wall.
Dead Rising was already dark and gritty. It was also fucking weird and had some great moments of hilarity. They already said DR3 will have humor. Unless I missed the parts of the other two games where it was a non-stop slapstick comedy I don't know what you're getting at here.
You are kidding me right? You never noticed all the fun of dressing up ridiculously, how the entire game is a parody of zombie movie lore, the in references like "Jill's Sandwich Shop", dressing up zombies in Lego heads then running them over with a tricycle and the absolutely off the walls insane plot. For gods sake, the first game is
literally about making infinite meat from zombie cows for fast food chains FFS.
It is the absolute opposite of "dark and gritty" and certainly wasn't designed to appeal to people who like Call of Duty (which is a stated design goal of Dead Rising 3).
I am happy for you that you have already made your decision. Don't think Sony will be immune to any of the problem mention above even if you are paying for PSN+. I feel there will be a surge of new user flooding the Sony PSN network and it might not be a good thing. I know people think the grass is always green on the other side. Personally, I hate the Dual Shock too much to the PS4 route. Sony didn't show me any game that I was interested in that wasn't multiplatform. From my experience, the multiplayer experience is always better on Xbox. I taught the Sony conference was pretty weak until Jack came out with the famous slide. It was pretty pathetic actually.
Again, I hope you really enjoy your PS4. It going to be a good gaming machine I am sure. I just believe the Xbox one will be a better experience overall.
The thing is though, if PSN goes down, you can still play games offline on your PS4. If Xbox Live goes down, you're stuck with a $500 paperweight.
God forbid you do would do something like : Actually going outside and do something productive with your life...Xbox live or PSN is down, someone call 911....
Yes, I would love to spend half a thousand dollars and then go outside and do something else.
Posts
12 years ago, the same argument was made about Microsoft hating the gamers by not including dial-up with their online strategy. I remember the gaming community also complaining about voice chat. Microsoft had a vision and they executed. Now all of these console innovation are a standard in the gaming industry.
You don't have an internet connection, go buy a PS4 or stick with the X360. End of the story. Can we talk about games now?
It seems pretty clear at this point that the kinect is a dog. Regardless of whether you think it's cool (I think it's cool! I've never used it! I have nothing against it) it failed to have any real impact on gaming and is broadly unpopular. So why are Microsoft so committed to it, to the point where they'll put an extra $100 on the pricetag of their new console to try and increase its market penetration? Sony did the same thing with blu-ray, but blu ray wasn't a complete dog. There has to be a reason other than "they think it's super cool" or some stupid conspiracy theory about datamining.
the premise of that article was that latency and bandwidth would limit many applications to game computing. and that's totally true! you wouldn't be able to remotely render dynamic graphics, for instance.
but there are applications that could work. high-fidelity physics simulations and AI are incredibly expensive operations from a computational standpoint, and, depending on the application, are absolutely within the constraints of latency/ bandwidth.
the quantum break example, for instance, might allow a player to arrange the scene during the "freeze frame," would package and ship the deltas to the cloud, would simulate the scene advanced in time, and would ship back the key information. there's no reason that this would fail the constraints of latency/ bandwidth.
yeah, what?
I mean it's probably a little slower, but when comparing a handful of milliseconds, it doesn't really hold up.
EDIT: STUPID SAVED DRAFTS!
If MS makes "the infinite power of the cloud" a real thing, then they are even more screwed. The number of people that would be affected by the 24hr or even 1hr phone home limits is tiny compared to the number of people for which their connection couldn't keep up with real time use of the cloud since the latter is basically everyone at some time or another.
In reality the could will be used for balance patches, roster updates and things of a similar nature. It will be essentially asynchronous.
For example this is how the devs described the way Forza uses the could for AI. It downloads from the cloud files that contain parameters that are fed to the AI. Say "Aggressiveness=8, Reaction Time =3, Seeing the Correct Line =7, etc.". It also uploads the same type of file based on how you drive. That's it. The cloud can't be used for the actual AI because latency will never be low enough and predictable enough for it to work.
And yeah, even this cloud usage a big step towards making games a service rather than a product. There are big advantages to the publishers in making that change, I'm not sure that gamers should welcome it.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
It's not "a little slower." A 7200RPM drive has roughly five times the transfer rate of a 6x Blu-Ray drive.
If they aren't required moment to moment, otherwise latency absolutely will screw these up. Actually physics is something that the interview with the Microsoft guy largely ruled out, except pre calculated stuff - like lighting models.
In effect, anything moment to moment is out of the question. You can use it for many other applications, but I am not convinced that "cloud" and "shit dedicated servers have been doing for years, but we weren't trying to sell it as anything overly fancy" aren't the same thing.
I honestly don't see cloud computing being at all relevant in Quantum Break unless it does some truly insane things. For example, let's look at a game I went bananas over when I saw them do it. Battlefield 4 is going to be on PC, 360 and PS4 - two of which without cloud computing and that game has some of the most amazing destruction I have ever seen in a video game ever. They blew up a fucking skyscraper in real time, in a multiplayer game, with 64 players in it. If Remedy can't pull something similar off while not dealing with 64 people at the same time with just the system capable of doing that, then I don't honestly know what to say.
I am honestly not buying anything to do with "cloud computing" as it is a meaningless buzz word that EA tried to sell to fool people into thinking online DRM was really for their benefit. It needs to prove itself meaningfully with an actual provable example for me.
Bobby: "I'm fighting off zombies, Mom, leave me alone."
Mother goes downstairs.
Dad: "So?"
Mom [sighing]: "He's masturbating again."
and yet still more than fast enough to play any fighting game that requires split second timing.
i don't own a kinect 1 and nothing i've seen about it appeals to me. the games are gimmicky and no one really knows what to do with it besides dancing games.
however
there are some technologies that are useless gimmicks right up to the point where suddenly they're amazingly useful and you didn't know how you lived without them. for decades, virtual reality has been a shitty joke, but suddenly the oculus rift looks like it might be legit. another that is kind of on the edge right now is speech recognition with more advanced semantic reasoning.
i have no idea whether devs will find a good use for kinect, but it might be advanced to the point where it really can do cool minority-report style interfaces, or things like simulated scene 3d with head tracking.
i mean - it can actually detect your heartbeat with IR and can do that to 5 people in the scene. i don't know any dev who really has a plan to capitalize on that sort of thing - exercise or horror games might see some application - but the possibility is pretty cool.
Dad: "Well the kids are calling it the xbone. Maybe we should tell Fox News?"
The next day
Fox News: "Microsofts new gaming console, is it turning your child into a sexual deviant?"
The new kinect is miles ahead of the old one. There is a wired video that got linked a few times where they showed the capabilities off, and it does all sorts of stuff that simply has no analog elsewhere.
Right now it is untapped potential. Calling out voice commands in a tactical shooter or "waggling" is all people are thinking right now... but when you have a device that can track six people in full detail at the same time, can read your pulse from microfluctuations in the skin, can track your level of attention to the screen, and can read your mood and body posture...
I really hope we get the best goddamned survival horror game ever made out of that combination of ingredients.
I hope that an actual personal trainer program comes along that fulfills everything Wii Fit said it would without a balance board or a heart rate monitor, or having to hold a wiimote or put it on my pocket.
I want a party game that tears the shit out of mario party from all the extra sensory inputs it has, with nobody having to hold a controller to pull it off.
And a whole bunch of other options that I cannot think of because I am not a creative game developer type. It's a hell of a tool, by no means a "dog," and as someone who loves watching the advancement of technology Kinect is pretty darn neat.
Let's play Mario Kart or something...
Been trying to figure out your angle here for a while, seeing as you've been one the most vocal critical persons toward the console in the thread(s)...
I know you like the 360, but just. yeah.
What's the deal?
That's... that's not how that works.
Something like a fighting game would preload all the assets required into memory, because the assets are tiny. Something like Watch Dogs or Assassin's Creed, where there are a shitload of assets, will stream chunks of the game to memory from disc. This is what causes pop-in and long load screens. Having a hard drive available will significantly reduce both these problems comparable to reading from a disc. Sony's faster RAM will help close the gap a little, but not entirely.
Pretty much just venting, seeing as I feel Microsoft have just pissed on 6 odd years of my gaming time and as a customer to become complete idiots. But otherwise there is much fertile discussion and I am hardly going to let Microsoft try to pull a Sim City EA "Shill cloud gaming as the coming of Jesus" when the practical actual reality of the situation is exactly the opposite. Microsoft have pretty much shown me they don't give a shit about non-US markets or consumers in general, but there is always the hope - vague as it is - they might sometime see reason.
I am curious though if Microsoft will see any degree of sanity between now and then, but given their comments eg: Buy a 360 for a non-connected console 8-> I doubt it. They have well and truly got Sonys 2006 hubris, it just amazes me they can't see it.
Edit: And it should be noted that I didn't just like the 360, I absolutely fucking loved it.
ok, I'll take your word on it .... but I've never had what I would consider a huge load time on any game I've played recently
I suppose that could be a product of my years in Norrath though.
I think you are wrong and I would love to revisit this thread 2 years from now to see what happens. I think people hate DRM because of server issue like in Simcity and Diablo III. Xbox live is solid as a rock. I have never seen it go down due to heavy traffic. I have seen EA and Blizzard server suffer from high usage but the Microsoft one? never.
Either way, I think the gaming community is making a big fuzz about very small stuff. If you don't like the Microsoft policies, you sure are welcome to buy a PS4. Have fun with your hosted by crappy user broadband connection server while I'll be playing on dedicated server.
Well, I'll bring some optimism over from the Industry thread:
Wait, so I can let a friend "borrow" a game without actually having to physically hand him the game? That makes Sony's tutorial seem downright cumbersome in comparison.
Also, the noise-reactive stuff in Dead Rising 3 sounds fucking awesome (no pun intended). Moving my upper body to shake off zombies? That sounds awesome. Not something I HAVE to do, but something I CAN do? Great. It means I can save my A button from an early grave. And my wife who doesn't have the muscle memory to know exactly which button is which without sometimes looking at the screen? Problem solved.
Yeah, all these "problems" with the Xbox One really suck. But hey, Homer said it best: the lesson is "never try."
Dead Rising was already dark and gritty. It was also fucking weird and had some great moments of hilarity. They already said DR3 will have humor. Unless I missed the parts of the other two games where it was a non-stop slapstick comedy I don't know what you're getting at here.
http://www.examiner.com/article/xbox-live-down-how-quickly-we-forget Er, Xbox live went down for nearly 2 weeks due to overloading from the mega releases and holiday timing. Thats not quite solid as a rock.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
I have: http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2013/04/13/having-a-hard-time-logging-into-xbox-live-youre-not-alone-and-microsoft-is-working-on-the-problem/
http://kotaku.com/5846314/xbox-live-brought-down-by-human-error
http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/3/23/2898884/call-of-duty-mw3-and-black-ops-xbox-live-servers-down
And it also went down last year when Call of Duty came out. Major functions of Xbox live were also not available at the start of this year when the cloud saving completely shit itself, which was extremely inconvenient for me for most of January and February (when it was entirely down).
So, your argument isn't exactly as good as you think.
Well you are only a link away from seeing reports of it happening!
Actually, Sony have announced they are going to be doing that as well - hence why they moved multiplayer behind the PS+ pay wall.
Any other comments?
You are kidding me right? You never noticed all the fun of dressing up ridiculously, how the entire game is a parody of zombie movie lore, the in references like "Jill's Sandwich Shop", dressing up zombies in Lego heads then running them over with a tricycle and the absolutely off the walls insane plot. For gods sake, the first game is
It is the absolute opposite of "dark and gritty" and certainly wasn't designed to appeal to people who like Call of Duty (which is a stated design goal of Dead Rising 3).
That's how it's felt to me, like they're really hoping it'll develop to a point where it's installed into everything and they want to piss their mark all over the technology now. I guess they hope that by getting it into 'every' house and getting people used to interacting with it, it'll enable and encourage development of the technology both in hardware (as we're seeing now with Kinect 2 being viable enough for them to push it out with every console) and software, hoping that someone will think of something to do with it. If it pays off, it'll work out great for them. If it doesn't... I guess they'll buy up stuff like Leap and anyone else who's competing.
Firstly, thanks for clearing that one up for me Aegeri.
Symtex: With the PS4, they're actually shifting toward a Gaming as Service model when it comes to MP too (specifically, it's going "behind the paywall"). This means that the quality of their multiplayer matchmaking should in theory improve since more revenue can be concentrated into infrastructure.
At no point (that I'm aware of) has Microsoft said that all multiplayer games will exist on their own dedicated servers... and presently even large games on Live don't host matches entirely on dedicated servers; the newer Live service will/may offer a significantly improved matchmaking experience over the present-day service (and parts of that software may trickle down onto the 360), but, yeah.
At a really high level what you are paying for when you go into gold, is the ability to connect to a server that allows you to find matches for a game reliably, including by region, connection, skill, etc...
You're still liable to be put in games hosted by "crappy user broadband connections" though, no matter where you go.
You obviously didn't play Skyrim on a 360. (For the record, I didn't either, mostly because I watched someone play it on 360 for like half an hour and went NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE.)
For Sony to really utilize that extra 2GB of RAM they've (supposedly, we don't have a confirmation on OS overhead) got, they're going to have to load an extra 2GB that into memory at some point. That's going to take a lot longer. Like, in a completely unrealistic scenario (completely filling all RAM), 20-30 seconds longer than it would if it was reading from a hard drive.
You are kidding me right? You never noticed all the fun of dressing up ridiculously, how the entire game is a parody of zombie movie lore, the in references like "Jill's Sandwich Shop", dressing up zombies in Lego heads then running them over with a tricycle and the absolutely off the walls insane plot. For gods sake, the first game is
It is the absolute opposite of "dark and gritty" and certainly wasn't designed to appeal to people who like Call of Duty (which is a stated design goal of Dead Rising 3).
I mean, I was disappointed to be missing out on Dead Rising 3 as a huge fan of the series. Then I heard "dark and gritty", removal of the time limit into an optional mode, "appeal to Call of Duty players" and waggling arms to throw off zombies.
I am really not that disappointed anymore.
Nope, but in interviews today they pretty much outright stated they put MP behind a PS+ to generate further revenue so they could invest it into making a better multiplayer experience, exactly what MS did. I don't have a problem with it but its definitely a sticking point for others (understandably). At least free to play games like Planetside 2 will not require PS+ though, which I am not sure will be the case with the xbone and gold.
Well, you missed something because Dead Rising is Apocalypse Vaudeville. Dark and gritty? Yeah, no.
They also have faster RAM than the Xb1 though.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
I am happy for you that you have already made your decision. Don't think Sony will be immune to any of the problem mention above even if you are paying for PSN+. I feel there will be a surge of new user flooding the Sony PSN network and it might not be a good thing. I know people think the grass is always green on the other side. Personally, I hate the Dual Shock too much to the PS4 route. Sony didn't show me any game that I was interested in that wasn't multiplatform. From my experience, the multiplayer experience is always better on Xbox. I taught the Sony conference was pretty weak until Jack came out with the famous slide. It was pretty pathetic actually.
Again, I hope you really enjoy your PS4. It going to be a good gaming machine I am sure. I just believe the Xbox one will be a better experience overall.
The RAM isn't the limiting factor in that regard, it's reading the data off the disc. The RAM in both systems is absurdly faster than reading off the disc.
Well if you're just going by raw data transfer rates, yeah it takes time to copy files from a hard drive to physical memory. There's no law, though, that dictates that you must fill up all available memory in your console before proceeding. Smart programming is all about optimizations. Stream the data to the RAM so you can play as you load.
never played Skyrim on my 360, but every game I did play was great
question: will you be able to install a game on the PS4?
The PS3 had installing, and in a LOT of cases mandatory installations for their gaming. Theres no reason the PS4 wouldn't.
CorriganX on Steam and just about everywhere else.
The thing is though, if PSN goes down, you can still play games offline on your PS4. If Xbox Live (or your internet connection) goes down, you're stuck with a $500 paperweight.
PSN: rlinkmanl
I've been playing on Dedicated Servers since 1996.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Thanks for the heads-up Symtex.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
God forbid you do would do something like : Actually going outside and do something productive with your life...Xbox live or PSN is down, someone call 911....
Oh, I know. That's why I explicitly said it was a completely unrealistic scenario. :P
Yes, I would love to spend half a thousand dollars and then go outside and do something else.
PSN: rlinkmanl