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Strip Search - On the Hunt

2456

Posts

  • eagleagl Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    I think the draw of the contract episode for many long-time PA fans is twofold - PA's miserable experience with contracts before they met Robert, and their dramatic turnaround and success AFTER Robert started managing such things. Maybe it's due to my exposure to the world of running a business while getting my MBA (worthless piece of paper it is) but I'm pretty curious as to how the next episode will be presented. Will it be educational to the strippers, or just a steaming pile of crap they need to wade through in order to scare them into having someone review their contracts before signing anything in the future? Either way, I think it'll be interesting to watch. I also want to know if the first thing they'll be presented with is a version of one of the original contract disasters that hosed Mike and Jerry when they were starting out. That would be interesting to me anyhow.

    eagl on
    Modred189UNHchaboNinjanundeworde
  • bossmebossme Registered User new member
    Lexxy just rubs me the wrong way. Her describing how they drew the Top Pot sign was just her talking down to Maki. "Oh he remembered a bit but boy did he listen to what I said well"

    ...but, that is the best thing about Lexxy.

  • Angry_SamoanAngry_Samoan Now with 20% more mange... Registered User regular
    I will admit that I'm really looking forward to the next episode, but that's mostly because I'm an IP attorney (mostly Trademarks and IT Law, but am also well-versed in Copyrights, Design Law and Patents). I have been waiting for this challenge, and figured it would be set for around the final four time.
    I have a feeling the strippers won't like it much though.

    "The history of all sports is to cheat whenever possible."- Tony Kornheiser
    sketchityemarecksaykaywahay
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    MontyRohde wrote: »
    Strip Search: The Paper Work episodes. As satire I was going to be doing a comic of Khoo chewing the remaining contestants out as they improperly filled out taxes as independent contractors, but I don't think I need to. I'm assuming that episode will be on in the next week or two.

    Don't get me wrong understanding legal agreements is important. VERY important. CRITICALLY important. Far more important than signing merchandise. Honestly though it's not going to be interesting to watch, and its not something that the audience is getting excited and anticipatory about. You're not going to be reading "Maki's such a nerd he's going to OWN that non-disclosure agreement." Videos about these subject should have been posted on a separate youtube channel and not part of strip search. Perhaps I'm wrong but considering how the comments sections are dropping off in volume, aside from the elimination rounds, you are distancing your audience.

    The impression I get is that no one in the development process asked themselves whether the proposed content would be interesting to watch. Whether or not they would want to watch episodes about people filling out paper work themselves.

    There is too much focus on the importance of the subject material and not the entertainment value.

    I'm completely fine with that. Focusing too much on entertainment value means a decreased chance of finding a winner who knows what the fuck they're doing. Hell, most talent-search shows, they basically make you fail this challenge in spectacular fashion as a prerequisite to get on the show. American Idol is notorious for contracts that basically strangle the careers out of, as of right now, the entire top 10. A challenge revolving around knowing what's in a contract is proof of just how serious PA is about making sure their alumni succeed after the show.

    Short-term entertainment is one thing. You can entertain any time you want. Just shove the contestants out of a plane or something regardless of context. But if you want your show to gain a good reputation, you need to actually do the things you say you're going to do, and find the Next Big Thing you say you're going to find. If you're a cooking competition, your alumni need to go out and head or run well-respected restaurants. If you're a singing competition, your alumni need to start hauling home awards. If you're a dating show, your pairs need to start getting married and staying married. If you're a webcomic show, your alumni need to be able to make a living doing webcomics, and to do that, they need to make sure some asshole doesn't screw them out of being able to make a living as a webcomic artist.

    Your best approach is to figure out what people in the field at hand need to know more than anything else, and then making challenges revolving around those things regardless of the entertainment value. That is precisely what is happening here.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
    GPrime85parmeisanBoardGameBodhisattvaNinjanunnaviniea
  • BoarBoar Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    I have to say Lexxy is starting to rub me up the wrong way as well. Not in an extreme or angry way but a lot of the artists seem to spend time finding nice things to say about each other whereas a lot of the time Lexxy just seems to be complimenting herself (though there may be some editing involved). For example, Katy; "I was happy to be paired with Abby", "It was great that Abby had a good sense of direction". Lexxy: "I didn't care who I was paired with", "I have a great sense of direction".

    Boar on
    parmeisanNinjanunemarecksaykay
  • Modred189Modred189 Registered User regular
    As a young IP attorney, I am far too excited for the next episode. Copyright licenses, work for hire contracts and (c) ownership agreements are all kinds of FUN!

    MKF36E
  • teknoarcanistteknoarcanist Registered User regular
    I would love to read a book by Robert Khoo. The dude turned a fucking daily .jpeg (which, let's remember, back in the early days, were not always that good or funny) into a massive empire with a multi-million dollar charity arm and the largest gaming convention in the world. I would love to know how.

    enderandrewUNHchaboTomantashiserNinjanunemarecksaykayMKF36EHanClinto
  • kolybrykolybry Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    man, lots of complainers around here (in general, not this thread specifically)... while still a bit rough around the edges in the non-elim-episode i like this series very much. they managed to come with challenges that are interesting to watch thus far (except for the ping pong, but that is just me). watching people draw is not super exciting and even seeing them present or defend their artwork would get old after a while. the best thing about the elims is the banter for me and not the art. i watch this for the same reason i watched PA the series: because of the people.
    so far 7 out of the 17 challenges were creative and 3 to 4 were directly connected to running a webcomic (4 if you count signing). i wished they would incorporate the in house sketching in the spoiler section, but whatever.

    kolybry on
  • enderandrewenderandrew Registered User regular
    Lexxy complimented Maki for drawing based off directions and everyone spins it into Lexxy complimenting herself.

    Katie said she didn't have much sense of direction and let Abby navigate. I don't see a single person complain about her taking charge, but people are complaining about Lexxy navigating on her team.

    Oddly enough, you didn't see Maki complaining about Lexxy taking charge. Conversely, he complimented and thanked Lexxy for pushing him. So clearly she was mean and a horrible person and everyone should hate her.

    Why operate in reality when you can warp it to fit preconceived bias?

    ElbasunuAngry_SamoanUNHchaboshiserVoproSTEINCambiataKalynarMKF36EwahayTofystedeth
  • AmarylAmaryl Registered User regular
    Lexxy: We have to walk up pike-street!

    *misses pike street*

    :D

    I like this episode, great stuff with the map too.

    emarecksaykaycwDeiciTofystedeth
  • WeaselsoupWeaselsoup Registered User regular
    Fun episode. I just love that my three favourite contestants are still in it, I'd be happy if the final was between three, like a lot of reality shows do, rather than two. And add me to the people wishing to be a fly on the wall at the dinner - I bet the conversation was extremely helpful and also hilarious.

    I was sarkily suggesting the other day that making them fill in a tax return would be a challenge of an essential skill, but this contract thing is much more entertaining. I imagine it'll be about logic rather than actual legal ability... cos the one lesson you really learn when you do stuff like this is 'bloody well get advice from a proper lawyer, under no circumstances should you skimp on this particular business expense'...

  • Agent0fN0thingAgent0fN0thing Registered User regular
    My question is this: did the contestants know that they were going to be getting a ride back to the starting point at the end of the hour? If so, the optimal strategy (from the perspective of "OMG MY LEGS CAN'T TAKE THESE HILLS") would be to take the eastern-most stuff first (Paramount and Convention Center) and then just go down-hill from there, sweeping through the landmarks. The rookie mistake was starting by going down to the water.

  • NavyBeanNavyBean Registered User regular
    If the next episode is just the dinner, I'm cool with that. Any episodes with Jerry and Mike are mucho better than a J&M free epi.

    duddlesteknoarcanistMKF36E
  • LexxyLexxy Registered User, Strip Search regular
    Amaryl wrote: »
    Lexxy: We have to walk up pike-street!

    *misses pike street*

    :D

    I like this episode, great stuff with the map too.

    lexxyfuckeditup_sm_zps5174a060.jpg

    ElbasunuAngry_SamoanenderandrewAnana11LampshoeboxjeddyUNHchaboEndMekkaBmiaAusaBoardGameBodhisattvaVoproSTEINfullofgraceDerBeppoCambiataKalynarBuchonavinieacwDeiciSpiffy McBangMKF36EHatTrickjebrexTheScruplescrivenerjonesHanClintoSpman2099wahaywn.mike
  • Angry_SamoanAngry_Samoan Now with 20% more mange... Registered User regular
    I'm surprised no one thought about taking a cab to the various spots. Or was that expressly forbidden and I missed it, or expressly forbidden and not shown?

    "The history of all sports is to cheat whenever possible."- Tony Kornheiser
    teknoarcanistAgent0fN0thing
  • enderandrewenderandrew Registered User regular
    BTW, University of Chicago runs the most epic scavenger hunt every year. Check their list:

    http://scavhunt.uchicago.edu/list2013.pdf

  • MTesonMTeson Austin, TXRegistered User regular
    The Cone of Shame!

  • Anana11Anana11 Registered User regular
    I love that Katie and Abby planned the route as best they could at the beginning.
    And I understand Lexxy getting amped up. If you're an Alpha type, it's hard to resist the urge to say "This is what we should do, let's go! go! go!" when time is pressing. The nice thing is, Maki was cool with following her lead. Two Alphas in that situation are going to end up fighting each other, but Maki takes direction well and that is pretty darn awesome.

    cwDeiciGamercow
  • UNHchaboUNHchabo Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    Weaselsoup wrote: »
    I was sarkily suggesting the other day that making them fill in a tax return would be a challenge of an essential skill, but this contract thing is much more entertaining. I imagine it'll be about logic rather than actual legal ability... cos the one lesson you really learn when you do stuff like this is 'bloody well get advice from a proper lawyer, under no circumstances should you skimp on this particular business expense'...

    I think a good challenge would be to have the artists highlight sections that they would consult a lawyer, and highlight sections that would be an absolute no-go. After all, while lawyers are necessary, they are also expensive, and if you can ask specific questions instead of throwing a contract on their desk and saying "look at this for me", that will cut down your expenses significantly.

    Now, that doesn't sound entertaining to watch, but at this point I have faith in Graham's editing to make anything entertaining. :)

    UNHchabo on
    parmeisanWeaselsoupNinjanun
  • zerzhulzerzhul Registered User, Moderator mod
    I really enjoyed this episode, especially since I've been to a bunch of those locations and am not from Seattle, so the "oh shit, where is this?" was a shared experience. Most of these places I ended up seeing during various PAXes on the PAX Prime forum-organized Seattle Magical Mystery Tour.

    Also due to PAX, I was all "OOH OOH THE PARAMOUNT!!!!" when @KatieJRice and Abby were near the WSCC :) I love episodes that make me want to yell at the screen in hopes that they can hear the directions... NO THAT WAY! UGGGHHH JUST MISSED IT! :D

    vyQjYda.png
    5ErTbVb.png
    navinieaTofystedeth
  • BurnHavocBurnHavoc Registered User new member
    MontyRohde wrote: »
    Perhaps I'm wrong but considering how the comments sections are dropping off in volume, aside from the elimination rounds, you are distancing your audience.

    YAY STATISTICS!
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_LwNkVIWd9RUkdtZlNtNFVLUm8/edit?usp=sharing

    (NOTE: I would say the last 2-3 episodes are still incomplete statistically because commenting/viewing appear to persist for up to about 2 weeks)

    davidburnhamenderandrewEnneadtheResetButtonzzelinski
  • LampLamp Registered User regular
    edited May 2013
    One thing I admire about Lexxy is illustrated by the fact that she is in here in the discussion threads regularly posting funny pictures for us to enjoy; do you see any other contestants doing that? Whether she wins this competition or not, she is the one who I can confidently say has truly taken advantage of her internet fame. She draws her fair share of naysayers but at the end of the day, she knows how to cultivate dedicated fans. The Kickstarter is the obvious big one, but a couple more examples: When a new Strip Search episode goes up, she streams it in her livestream channel, and sits in the chat to comment on the episode and talk to fans! For that matter, she regularly streams her drawing time and packs a few dozen fans into the chat to watch. She also has one of the best-maintained and most regularly-updated twitter feeds of any of the contestants.

    Lamp on
    Angry_SamoanseegrumiaAusaCambiataSpman2099cwDeiciGamercowMKF36EHanClintoshoeboxjeddy
  • zerzhulzerzhul Registered User, Moderator mod
    Are those comment numbers from here? or Youtube comments? I assume here since this is where you're posting, but figured that's a data point that should be explicit.

    vyQjYda.png
    5ErTbVb.png
    naviniea
  • Finnish_LineFinnish_Line Registered User regular
    MontyRohde wrote: »
    Also the scavenger hunt would have been much better earlier in the show as an ice breaker for the audience. Day 1 or Day 3. A way to introduce the contestants and show people's personalities off indirectly. Plus with more teams around it would increase the chance that something serendipitous will happen. We already know who everyone is at this point so none of the interactions came off as a surprise.

    It would take too many camera people to follow around more than two pairs of artists at the same time.


    I liked this episode. No complaints. And if they spend six minutes on the dinner next episode before going into the legal challenge, then that episode will be saved as well.

  • seegruseegru Master of None St. PaulRegistered User regular
    Great episode! I really like this challenge. One part artistic challenge, one part physical challenge. Thought everyone did great. My thoughts go to the camera operators. As tired as the contestants were running all over downtown, imagine having 30 lbs. of equipment strapped to your back. Well done!

    parmeisanlawragatajar
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    BurnHavoc wrote: »
    MontyRohde wrote: »
    Perhaps I'm wrong but considering how the comments sections are dropping off in volume, aside from the elimination rounds, you are distancing your audience.

    YAY STATISTICS!
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B_LwNkVIWd9RUkdtZlNtNFVLUm8/edit?usp=sharing

    (NOTE: I would say the last 2-3 episodes are still incomplete statistically because commenting/viewing appear to persist for up to about 2 weeks)

    The comments have a way of spiking on anything Lexxy-related. The top three commented elimination episodes have all involved Lexxy; two of the top non-elimination episodes were the three following Lexxy's reinstatement (the top non-elim was #12, the Magic: The Gathering skateboard deck, which people noted was tailor-made for Lexxy, and where she participated here despite being absent for it).

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
    naviniea
  • zerzhulzerzhul Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited May 2013
    Lamp wrote: »
    One thing I admire about Lexxy is illustrated by the fact that she is in here in the discussion threads regularly posting funny pictures for us to enjoy; do you see any other contestants doing that? Whether she wins this competition or not, she is the one who I can confidently say has truly taken advantage of her internet fame. She draws her fair share of naysayers but at the end of the day, she knows how to cultivate dedicated fans. The Kickstarter is the obvious big one, but a couple more examples: When a new Strip Search episode goes up, she streams it in her livestream channel, and sits in the chat to comment on the episode and talk to fans! For that matter, she regularly streams her drawing time and packs a few dozen fans into the chat to watch. She also has one of the best-maintained and most regularly-updated twitter feeds of any of the contestants.
    With that, keep in mind that she was already a regular on these forums, so it probably comes more naturally to post regularly.

    It might be harder for others who are not used to posting here to engage, with all the negativity flying around.

    zerzhul on
    vyQjYda.png
    5ErTbVb.png
    tastydonutsCambiataemarecksaykayMKF36EAnana11HanClintoshoeboxjeddy
  • LexxyLexxy Registered User, Strip Search regular
    Aw shucks, Lamp .///.

    naviniea
  • ElbasunuElbasunu Registered User regular
    Lamp wrote: »
    One thing I admire about Lexxy is illustrated by the fact that she is in here in the discussion threads regularly posting funny pictures for us to enjoy; do you see any other contestants doing that? Whether she wins this competition or not, she is the one who I can confidently say has truly taken advantage of her internet fame. She draws her fair share of naysayers but at the end of the day, she knows how to cultivate dedicated fans. The Kickstarter is the obvious big one, but a couple more examples: When a new Strip Search episode goes up, she streams it in her livestream channel, and sits in the chat to comment on the episode and talk to fans! For that matter, she regularly streams her drawing time and packs a few dozen fans into the chat to watch. She also has one of the best-maintained and most regularly-updated twitter feeds of any of the contestants.

    While I agree she's rocking at public communications, it's worth noting that she's one of the only artists who doesn't work a 9-5, and is MOSTLY available for tweets and hilarious spontaneous drawings throughout the day.

    Which, you know, is a really sweet position to be in.

    g1xfUKU.png?1
    Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
  • MontyRohdeMontyRohde Registered User regular
    Gosling wrote: »
    I'm completely fine with that. Focusing too much on entertainment value means a decreased chance of finding a winner who knows what the fuck they're doing. Hell, most talent-search shows, they basically make you fail this challenge in spectacular fashion as a prerequisite to get on the show. American Idol is notorious for contracts that basically strangle the careers out of, as of right now, the entire top 10. A challenge revolving around knowing what's in a contract is proof of just how serious PA is about making sure their alumni succeed after the show.

    Short-term entertainment is one thing. You can entertain any time you want. Just shove the contestants out of a plane or something regardless of context. But if you want your show to gain a good reputation, you need to actually do the things you say you're going to do, and find the Next Big Thing you say you're going to find. If you're a cooking competition, your alumni need to go out and head or run well-respected restaurants. If you're a singing competition, your alumni need to start hauling home awards. If you're a dating show, your pairs need to start getting married and staying married. If you're a webcomic show, your alumni need to be able to make a living doing webcomics, and to do that, they need to make sure some asshole doesn't screw them out of being able to make a living as a webcomic artist.

    Your best approach is to figure out what people in the field at hand need to know more than anything else, and then making challenges revolving around those things regardless of the entertainment value. That is precisely what is happening here.

    I never said the paper work wasn't important. I went so far as to say it was critical, but I'm sorry but I just don't see the ability to do paperwork as a prudent criteria to choosing a winner. YES, you need to be able to do paperwork, BUT that's a skill people learn along the way and ANYONE can learn to do the paperwork. If you seriously want to help people with the paperwork provide online tutorials. The ability of an artist to entertain and build and audience is far more pivotal to whether or not they can create a successful career than trying to successfully complete paperwork in a very limited two hour time frame. In fact the best thing you can do, is that if you don't understand the paperwork, is to not sign anything and get proper consultation.

    There are a lot more people who can properly fill out paperwork than create entertaining material on a consistent basis.

    The purpose of this show is four fold as far as I can tell. 1)Promote the PA brand 2)Educate viewers about the profession of web cartooning 3)Promote the profession of web cartooning and 4)Build an audience for the contestants. 3,4 are best accomplished when the audience is interested, engaged and ideally growing. In general I'm not seeing that here. Maybe there's some raging debates going on elsewhere in the internet, but I'm not seeing much of the audience engaging with the content of the show in the forum or the comments section. (Yes, yes you see people constantly professing their love of contestant X but that's something entirely different altogether.) You have a few people from business and legal professions showing some measure of interest in the content. That's great but of your over all audience that's an incredibly tiny percentage of your perspective viewership that seems to be anticipating this next episode.

    You're not seeing comments liking "Lexxy's going to be using her freelance experience to dominate this event." or "Maki's incredibly thick glasses are going to difference maker when it comes to reading the fine print."

    The winner should figure out the boring crap on their own during their education in the PA offices. While remaining relevant to the skills required by the profession, the show should focus on building an audience.

  • MontyRohdeMontyRohde Registered User regular
    The larger the audience, the more potential readers for your contestants. Just a basic fact.

  • cgardner42cgardner42 Registered User regular
    I've been a real fan of the production value through the show and I think LRR has done a great job with it. That said, I think more varied music would really help Season 2 out. The themes have become familiar and takes me out of the show a bit. The thought I have is "this is the music they play to add tension" or "this is that go-kart song to express action" etc. etc. The music should be more seamless and I think that more tracks might be necessary for this to happen. I loved how this was handled in PA:TS where there were different chip-tune "guest tracks" for each episode.

    Ninjanunemarecksaykay
  • LexxyLexxy Registered User, Strip Search regular
    zerzhul wrote: »
    Lamp wrote: »
    One thing I admire about Lexxy is illustrated by the fact that she is in here in the discussion threads regularly posting funny pictures for us to enjoy; do you see any other contestants doing that? Whether she wins this competition or not, she is the one who I can confidently say has truly taken advantage of her internet fame. She draws her fair share of naysayers but at the end of the day, she knows how to cultivate dedicated fans. The Kickstarter is the obvious big one, but a couple more examples: When a new Strip Search episode goes up, she streams it in her livestream channel, and sits in the chat to comment on the episode and talk to fans! For that matter, she regularly streams her drawing time and packs a few dozen fans into the chat to watch. She also has one of the best-maintained and most regularly-updated twitter feeds of any of the contestants.
    With that, keep in mind that she was already a regular on these forums, so it probably comes more naturally to post regularly.

    It might be harder for others who are not used to posting here to engage, with all the negativity flying around.

    Strong viewer opinions aside, it's hard for us to participate in a discussion as thorough as this. We can't clarify anything without worrying about breaking our NDA or ruining people's speculation, and it would be difficult to avoid coming off as over-defensive when responding to criticism. At least for me, anyway.

    *cough*TWITTERCHALLENGE*cough*

    It's also a little weird since everyone talks about us like we aren't here. Kinna feels like butting in on a private conversation!

    Makes more sense to engage fans where they actively seek us out, like twitter c:

    JuxanderparmeisanBoardGameBodhisattvaYllanesCambiatasketchitySpman2099navinieaMKF36EAngry_SamoanAnana11HanClintoshoeboxjeddyTofystedeth
  • uinkuuinku Registered User new member
    Fill this man with cream!

    ElbasunuTwoflowerGamercowMKF36E
  • SambearPoetSambearPoet Atlanta, GeorgiaRegistered User regular
    I liked this episode - fun to watch and fun to see how they got around.

  • Spiffy McBangSpiffy McBang Registered User regular
    Lexxy wrote: »
    It's also a little weird since everyone talks about us like we aren't here. Kinna feels like butting in on a private conversation!

    Well... you aren't here. I mean, you are sometimes, and Maki, but I don't recall seeing much of anyone else beyond maybe a post or two. So directing comments you as if you're actively part of the conversation would look strange. But any input from the artists is going to be welcomed by most, if not all.

    Ninjanun
  • JumbaJumba Registered User new member
    I'm looking forward to seeing the contract challenge. With PA's history and the duplicitous business people Robert has had to battle on behalf of PA, I'm guessing if you messed up the challenge contract would have hypothetically signed away all of your creative rights, entered you into an agreement of lifelong indentured servitude and let Robert give you all of the wet willies he ever wanted to.

  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    Jumba wrote: »
    I'm looking forward to seeing the contract challenge. With PA's history and the duplicitous business people Robert has had to battle on behalf of PA, I'm guessing if you messed up the challenge contract would have hypothetically signed away all of your creative rights, entered you into an agreement of lifelong indentured servitude and let Robert give you all of the wet willies he ever wanted to.

    Yea... I'm strangely interested in the next episode for that reason. :P

    “I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone.”
    ― Bill Cosby
  • parmeisanparmeisan Registered User regular
    I'm really looking forward to next episode! We're not the ones having to wade through all that, so I'm sure LRR will make it interesting for the viewers. On the other hand, it's back to being super useful stuff for a webcomicker to know.

    emarecksaykay
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited May 2013
    MontyRohde wrote: »
    I never said the paper work wasn't important. I went so far as to say it was critical, but I'm sorry but I just don't see the ability to do paperwork as a prudent criteria to choosing a winner. YES, you need to be able to do paperwork, BUT that's a skill people learn along the way and ANYONE can learn to do the paperwork.

    Wrong. Mike and Jerry weren't able to do paperwork at a critical juncture, and if they didn't find Khoo, none of us are here right now because they'd have signed away their rights and they'd have been screwed out of making any money out of cartooning.

    Also,
    The purpose of this show is four fold as far as I can tell. 1)Promote the PA brand 2)Educate viewers about the profession of web cartooning 3)Promote the profession of web cartooning and 4)Build an audience for the contestants.

    I note a conspicuous absence of 'find the best-qualified candidate' in that list.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
    navinieaAnana11
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