In some ways the roles of the Shadows and Vorlons is mirrored by the Earth government. The Vorlons and Shadows started out as nothing more then stewarts to the younger races. Guiding them until they are ready to join the others on the other side of space time, but one cycle after another they became more and more aggressive with their roles.
Just like Sheridan finds out too late that his government has become a totalitarian state, Loren finds that Shadows and Vorlons have become genocidal warmongers, except that Loren has no allies since the younger races foolishly sided with either the Shadows or Vorlons in their endless proxy war.
Of course. He wasn't going to get many opportunities to find allies in Za'Ha'Dum. Sheridan only found him by accident IIRC.
In some ways the roles of the Shadows and Vorlons is mirrored by the Earth government. The Vorlons and Shadows started out as nothing more then stewarts to the younger races. Guiding them until they are ready to join the others on the other side of space time, but one cycle after another they became more and more aggressive with their roles.
Just like Sheridan finds out too late that his government has become a totalitarian state, Loren finds that Shadows and Vorlons have become genocidal warmongers, except that Loren has no allies since the younger races foolishly sided with either the Shadows or Vorlons in their endless proxy war.
Of course. He wasn't going to get many opportunities to find allies in Za'Ha'Dum. Sheridan only found him by accident IIRC.
Sheridan found him because Kosh made sure he did.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
In some ways the roles of the Shadows and Vorlons is mirrored by the Earth government. The Vorlons and Shadows started out as nothing more then stewarts to the younger races. Guiding them until they are ready to join the others on the other side of space time, but one cycle after another they became more and more aggressive with their roles.
Just like Sheridan finds out too late that his government has become a totalitarian state, Loren finds that Shadows and Vorlons have become genocidal warmongers, except that Loren has no allies since the younger races foolishly sided with either the Shadows or Vorlons in their endless proxy war.
Of course. He wasn't going to get many opportunities to find allies in Za'Ha'Dum. Sheridan only found him by accident IIRC.
I thought I already explained this to you. He can be on B5 handing out Shadow Polaroids all day long, and no one's going to believe him until a shadow or vorlon fleet turns up and blows the place to hell.
And I doubt even you can come up with a reason for why any of the younger races would be crazy enough to go against the Vorlons.
Would you trust a single member of a race you can't identify and who has no government to back him up if he showed up spouting on about First Ones and his "children" getting too big for their britches?
No. You'd think he was a grifter from an unknown race who's trying to scam you.
Seidkona on
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
There are a few gems in season one. They're just aren't anywhere near as many as in the rest of the show.
I rather enjoyed "Believers" and "Grail" along with some of the plot points in the others.
Believers was a great episode. One of those classic gut-punches that makes you realize that JMS wasn't kidding when he said he didn't like kids in sci-fi.
JMS has a major chip on his shoulder vis a vis Star Trek and it seems at times he went out of his way especially in season one to distance himself from it as far as humanly possible while still remaining in the same genre. I never realized how deep it went until I started reading his episode by episode thoughts on that wonderful and extremely old school website somone linked a few pages back.
There are a few gems in season one. They're just aren't anywhere near as many as in the rest of the show.
I rather enjoyed "Believers" and "Grail" along with some of the plot points in the others.
Believers was a great episode. One of those classic gut-punches that makes you realize that JMS wasn't kidding when he said he didn't like kids in sci-fi.
that was a pretty damn good one, but more or less done better in "Confessions and Lamentations".
Well Paramount did greenlight DS9 after they had already rejected it a few years before. Surprisingly(not) they chose to do this after B5 was greenlit.
It does seem a bit fishy and is the main reason I've never watched DS9 to this day.
Seidkona on
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
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Well Paramount did greenlight DS9 after that had already rejected it a few years before. Surprisingly(not) they chose to do this after B5 was greenlit.
It does seem a bit fishy and is the main reason I've never watched DS9 to this day.
Well Paramount did greenlight DS9 after that had already rejected it a few years before. Surprisingly(not) they chose to do this after B5 was greenlit.
It does seem a bit fishy and is the main reason I've never watched DS9 to this day.
DS9 is an extremely good show, when it's good
Probably the second-best Trek behind TNG
Fandom grudges die hard.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Man what? DS9 probably has the best first season of any of the Star Treks. Not great, but generally decent enough with a few gems and a few truly awful episodes.
Also If I was going to scare someone with season one DS9 (which I consider much better than B5's rough first season) I'd go with Move Along Home.
If Wishes Were Horses is at least interesting and well acted.
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
Season one TNG has Zulu Nation and reverse sexism world and raunchy sex virus episode.
Also stupid 'Wesley broke a garden he must die because these people wanna bang'.
There are a few gems in season one. They're just aren't anywhere near as many as in the rest of the show.
I rather enjoyed "Believers" and "Grail" along with some of the plot points in the others.
Believers was a great episode. One of those classic gut-punches that makes you realize that JMS wasn't kidding when he said he didn't like kids in sci-fi.
that was a pretty damn good one, but more or less done better in "Confessions and Lamentations".
This is such an amazing episode about failure and the cost of secrets. This threads going to spur a re-watching of the series for me I think.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Season one TNG has Zulu Nation and reverse sexism world and raunchy sex virus episode. Also stupid 'Wesley broke a garden he must die because these people wanna bang'.
That episode is actually pretty good. Like, I'm serious, watch the whole thing it does a really good job with the situation and talks about the problems of arbitrary and brutal justice.
There are a few gems in season one. They're just aren't anywhere near as many as in the rest of the show.
I rather enjoyed "Believers" and "Grail" along with some of the plot points in the others.
Believers was a great episode. One of those classic gut-punches that makes you realize that JMS wasn't kidding when he said he didn't like kids in sci-fi.
that was a pretty damn good one, but more or less done better in "Confessions and Lamentations".
This is such an amazing episode about failure and the cost of secrets. This threads going to spur a re-watching of the series for me I think.
"Confessions and Lamentations" was one of the key episodes that made me fall in love with B5 as a series. When I watched it the first time, young me was thinking "JMS can't seriously kill off the whole Markab race?", "that's just not done in Scifi television", "I'm sure Dr. Franklin and the Markab doc will come up with a cure", and by the end it was "holy crap, a race just went extinct".
There are a few gems in season one. They're just aren't anywhere near as many as in the rest of the show.
I rather enjoyed "Believers" and "Grail" along with some of the plot points in the others.
Believers was a great episode. One of those classic gut-punches that makes you realize that JMS wasn't kidding when he said he didn't like kids in sci-fi.
that was a pretty damn good one, but more or less done better in "Confessions and Lamentations".
This is such an amazing episode about failure and the cost of secrets. This threads going to spur a re-watching of the series for me I think.
I'm real close to this too, but there's no streaming option anywhere. I have it on disc, but no drive in the computer. Blech. :P
There are a few gems in season one. They're just aren't anywhere near as many as in the rest of the show.
I rather enjoyed "Believers" and "Grail" along with some of the plot points in the others.
Believers was a great episode. One of those classic gut-punches that makes you realize that JMS wasn't kidding when he said he didn't like kids in sci-fi.
that was a pretty damn good one, but more or less done better in "Confessions and Lamentations".
This is such an amazing episode about failure and the cost of secrets. This threads going to spur a re-watching of the series for me I think.
I'm real close to this too, but there's no streaming option anywhere. I have it on disc, but no drive in the computer. Blech. :P
I am sort of upset about ti not being on streaming anywhere also. I'm a bit lucky I got a cheap portable DVD player from work as a gift a few years ago so that's how I'll end up watching most of it probably.
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I always wondered in what precise sense Lorien is "the first".
He was the first of his race to gain sentience and his race was before the the Shadows and the Vorlons.
Exactly. His race was the first race to gain sentience, and he was the first of his race to gain sentience. He was literally the first sentient being in the galaxy.
Season one TNG has Zulu Nation and reverse sexism world and raunchy sex virus episode. Also stupid 'Wesley broke a garden he must die because these people wanna bang'.
That episode is actually pretty good. Like, I'm serious, watch the whole thing it does a really good job with the situation and talks about the problems of arbitrary and brutal justice.
I take issue with the fact that it concludes summary execution for tripping would lead to a more peaceful society
Season one TNG has Zulu Nation and reverse sexism world and raunchy sex virus episode. Also stupid 'Wesley broke a garden he must die because these people wanna bang'.
That episode is actually pretty good. Like, I'm serious, watch the whole thing it does a really good job with the situation and talks about the problems of arbitrary and brutal justice.
I take issue with the fact that it concludes summary execution for tripping would lead to a more peaceful society
I always wondered in what precise sense Lorien is "the first".
He was the first of his race to gain sentience and his race was before the the Shadows and the Vorlons.
Exactly. His race was the first race to gain sentience, and he was the first of his race to gain sentience. He was literally the first sentient being in the galaxy.
To those not familiar with the series, I feel it's important to point out his race is naturally immortal. It is simply staggering how old he is.
I always wondered in what precise sense Lorien is "the first".
He was the first of his race to gain sentience and his race was before the the Shadows and the Vorlons.
Exactly. His race was the first race to gain sentience, and he was the first of his race to gain sentience. He was literally the first sentient being in the galaxy.
To those not familiar with the series, I feel it's important to point out his race is naturally immortal. It is simply staggering how old he is.
Not all of his race. As new generations were born they started to lose their immortality (the new generations and not the older ones).
Seidkona on
Mostly just huntin' monsters.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I always wondered in what precise sense Lorien is "the first".
He was the first of his race to gain sentience and his race was before the the Shadows and the Vorlons.
Exactly. His race was the first race to gain sentience, and he was the first of his race to gain sentience. He was literally the first sentient being in the galaxy.
To those not familiar with the series, I feel it's important to point out his race is naturally immortal. It is simply staggering how old he is.
Not all of his race. As new generations were born they started to lose their immortality (the new generations and not the older ones).
If I remember correctly, the reason for that was that the Universe decided that immortality was boring.
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I rather enjoyed "Believers" and "Grail" along with some of the plot points in the others.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
Of course. He wasn't going to get many opportunities to find allies in Za'Ha'Dum. Sheridan only found him by accident IIRC.
Sheridan found him because Kosh made sure he did.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I thought I already explained this to you. He can be on B5 handing out Shadow Polaroids all day long, and no one's going to believe him until a shadow or vorlon fleet turns up and blows the place to hell.
And I doubt even you can come up with a reason for why any of the younger races would be crazy enough to go against the Vorlons.
No. You'd think he was a grifter from an unknown race who's trying to scam you.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
It does seem a bit fishy and is the main reason I've never watched DS9 to this day.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
DS9 is an extremely good show, when it's good
Probably the second-best Trek behind TNG
Fandom grudges die hard.
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But it picks up steam rather fast after that.
Need I remind you:
it's like Neelix had a love child with the leprechaun.
DS9 is clearing a low bar, but they are still clearing it.
Edit: Or "Infection"
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
If Wishes Were Horses is at least interesting and well acted.
Also stupid 'Wesley broke a garden he must die because these people wanna bang'.
This is such an amazing episode about failure and the cost of secrets. This threads going to spur a re-watching of the series for me I think.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I guess the equivalent in B5 is when Delenn puts her hair on.
Maybe Kosh was the only (energy) bearded Vorlon and that explains his awesomeness compared to his stilted kin?
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
"Exactly."
That episode is actually pretty good. Like, I'm serious, watch the whole thing it does a really good job with the situation and talks about the problems of arbitrary and brutal justice.
"Confessions and Lamentations" was one of the key episodes that made me fall in love with B5 as a series. When I watched it the first time, young me was thinking "JMS can't seriously kill off the whole Markab race?", "that's just not done in Scifi television", "I'm sure Dr. Franklin and the Markab doc will come up with a cure", and by the end it was "holy crap, a race just went extinct".
Sinclair talking about the Battle of the Line:
Jeffrey Sinclair: The sky was full of stars, and every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Mankind fighting aliens and losing? Getting their asses kicked and the last ditch effort to save the day failed? That was new. I was hooked.
Poor O'Hare. When he was on, he delivered some great scenes. That's still one of my favourite. That line is just amazing.
I'm real close to this too, but there's no streaming option anywhere. I have it on disc, but no drive in the computer. Blech. :P
I am sort of upset about ti not being on streaming anywhere also. I'm a bit lucky I got a cheap portable DVD player from work as a gift a few years ago so that's how I'll end up watching most of it probably.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
He was the first of his race to gain sentience and his race was before the Shadows and the Vorlons.
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
I take issue with the fact that it concludes summary execution for tripping would lead to a more peaceful society
and now the exact opposite is a movie:
To those not familiar with the series, I feel it's important to point out his race is naturally immortal. It is simply staggering how old he is.
Not all of his race. As new generations were born they started to lose their immortality (the new generations and not the older ones).
XBL:Phenyhelm - 3DS:Phenyhelm
If I remember correctly, the reason for that was that the Universe decided that immortality was boring.