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Strip Search - Elimination #9

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Posts

  • ahdokahdok Figment of your imagination Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Hmm... maybe there is a God. Lexxy's gone now. Love ya,

    If God were taking a direct interest in this, he'd have probably made the less blasphemous comic win.

    ahdok on
    http://www.socksandpuppets.com for comics, art and other junk.
    parmeisanTomantaTofystedethEricsA Concerned Citizen
  • enderandrewenderandrew Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    @RORUS RAZ - I think this is a bit of a misconception. I don't think the winner will be part of the Penny Arcade brand. They're not Penny Arcade artists. They only get office space for a year and $15k in prize money. The winner has to make their own brand, which they've made clear in the competition.

    Edit: I'm still waiting for all the posters who were adamant that Mike and Jerry were dishonest and were crowning Lexxy a winner no matter what to start apologizing.

    enderandrew on
    A Concerned Citizen
  • emimonsteremimonster Registered User regular
    Finally catching up on comments from last episode... What's with the hate? Just because this is the internet, doesn't give everybody carte blanche to be a dick. Tone it down.

    Anyway, at the start of the show I checked out Maki's comic and immediately realized he's a genius. YAY Maki! XD

  • BoingBoing Registered User regular
    "I guess we better all put these eye protectors on...."

    He says to a room literally full of people wearing eyeglasses.

    ahdokKazitrontheResetButtongeekymoxie
  • parmeisanparmeisan Registered User regular
    emimonster wrote: »
    Just because this is the internet, doesn't give everybody carte blanche to be a dick.
    Wait, what?

  • WarforgedRusWarforgedRus Registered User regular
    Thought Lexxy had a great setup for a joke... but the last two panels just ended in battle. A turn on either Spanish Inquisition for Lollipop guild: "and a radical devotion to the Pop!" or mockery of the crusades... pushing your candy religion on someone... could have brought it home.

  • enderandrewenderandrew Registered User regular
    My initial thought for a punchline in Lexxy's strip would be one of them getting stabbed and candy spilling out.

    Puddingpie
  • DedwrekkaDedwrekka What Would Nyarlathotep Do? Registered User regular
    @Boing
    Eyeglasses don't protect you from shards of wood or saw dust in the eyes like you think they do. Much less anything resulting from a mechanical failure.

    Yasmine TeethmakitorigeekymoxiePuddingpie
  • ahdokahdok Figment of your imagination Registered User regular
    I have no reason to try to reason with any of emarecksaykay's 'reasoning' in this thread, because I can't reasonably expect a reasonable response.
    However, I will argue with one very specific point, simply because the counter-argument is totally awesome, and I think we could all enjoy it again.
    I'm absolutely certain she would have struggled to complete the contract art work for WotC in the time allotted.

    Ahem.

    tumblr_ml4s4niDtJ1qd80v3o1_1280.jpg

    http://www.socksandpuppets.com for comics, art and other junk.
    EricsAngry_SamoanmiaAusaCambiataA Concerned CitizenRuby Rhod
  • SlothboySlothboy Registered User regular
    zerzhul wrote: »
    Slothboy wrote: »
    Wait, people didn't get the Oz reference? How do you read about munchkin land and not connect it to Oz?
    Personally, because I know close to nothing about Oz.

    [joke] Well, clearly you are a horrible person. [/joke]

  • GamercowGamercow Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Wooo, MAKI! Not his best work, but I found it funny, and certainly better than Lexxy's, which left me wanting. I think that if anything, her elimination comics have done exactly that, left me wanting, wanting longer form stories from her. I think Cloud Factory's going to be great, and it will allow her to shift gears from 99% commision/freelance to maybe 50% commission/freelance. She'll still be able to take jobs, just won't need to take quite as many.

    So, Robert Khoo is indeed looking for a place for a Strip Search Finale Screening on June 18th. Thus ends the "Live Final Elimination at PAX" rumors. Or it should. I also think that it is indeed just a screening of the final episode, with maybe some Q/A with the searchers/finalists afterwards.

    Gamercow on
  • Yasmine TeethYasmine Teeth Registered User regular
    People in this thread are using the term "high concept" incorrectly. It's a Hollywood term that refers to a story based on an easily-understood idea that instantly appeals to a mass audience. Does not apply to comic strips without obvious punchlines.

  • WeedLordVegetaWeedLordVegeta Registered User regular
    Yo let's break out the @Lexxy haterade, I'm glad she's gone, nobody that talented at worldbuilding should be on my computer screen all the time and making me feel like a bad writer just by existing


    Seriously though, I think Cloud Factory is gonna own bones. Lexxy's elimination comics weren't the best, but her writing style isn't, at this point in her career, tailored to the one-off stuff. She's naturally inclined to more far-reaching stuff. It's why she probably wasn't going to win this competition from the getgo. I'm super impressed with seeing her get this far, and I know she'll probably have opportunities to experiment with more isolated humor comics in the future. Looking forward to seeing them.

    25Mj5br.png
    Cambiata
  • enderandrewenderandrew Registered User regular
    FWIW, I really liked the earlier idea in this thread of in season 2, pairing writers with artists.

  • ahdokahdok Figment of your imagination Registered User regular
    airbender2.jpg


    Okay, now you guys are just doing this deliberately...


    airbender3.jpg

    http://www.socksandpuppets.com for comics, art and other junk.
    KazitronElbasunudejavu,againHanClinto
  • AnnaAnna Registered User regular
    edit: tbf I don't know who your brother was or how he acted on the show, so... maaaaaybe it was warranted?. :P

    Well, the guy sure can be a doofus at times, but the thing that aggravated me (the sister who loves to criticize and mock him all the time, mind) is that the show's editing very artificially portrayed him as an unprofessional idiot in his elimination episode. Omitting the good moves he actually made/praises he did got from team-mates, taking his otherwise innocuous statement completely out of the original context, and blowing up the mistakes he did. Because he's going to be eliminated by the end of the episode, see? Afterward, he could only laugh when seeing the overall edited material, and told me stuff like how the designated asshole of the group is actually one of the nicest people there, and that the eventual winner got a lot of undeserved credit in early episodes. But yeah, I got it, they need to construct story arcs to justify every outcome. Still don't like it.

    (that's why Strip Search feels different, feels so much more good-natured. I'm sure the editing could not be 100% fair either, but it really does feel that they attempted to highlight the best side of everybody and minimize artificial narratives. And somehow, it doesn't stop some people from assigning antagonist roles!)

    As for your other points, you're probably right. A really naive statement on my part for telling people to stop gossiping and nit-picking. But, regardless of whether the couch criticism is valid or not, I still don't feel it's inappropriate to so thoroughly dissect their personality (*made double awkward here since the subjects read about it).

    Anana11A Concerned CitizenPuddingpie
  • LavidiusLavidius Registered User regular
    For those citing Lookouts and Automata, I think it's just difficult to deliver something like that in the 90-minute format. Look at how long and gorgeous and dialog-laden the original Lookouts and Automata strips are. Without the unique artwork to get you engrossed in the world and enough exposition to establish key facts about the setting, I think those would fall somewhat flatter, which means that quick gag strips that require little setup are more likely to be effective.

    Lexxy had the artwork and I think it almost resonated with them, but at least my main problem was that "Lullaby League" didn't cohere with the "Lollipop Guild" and the battle was played too straight to be a punchline. Others have suggested some good modifications, and in any case it does become funnier if you get how specific the Oz reference is (other than just "Munchkins"), but that's definitely not something everyone would get and I wouldn't expect Mike and Jerry to get that. Sounds like Lexxy herself wasn't that happy with it, and I'm actually quite impressed that we haven't seen more artists actively say "yeah I was drawing a blank and had to write something" in their interviews.

    What Jerry said to Mac remains true: this show is "in some way" about cartooning. Even if The Cloud Factory becomes the most successful near-term thing any of these cartoonists do (not saying it will), that doesn't mean that Lexxy's style is suited to winning this show, or that there isn't some randomness in the outcome.

    deworde
  • hotzphotzp Rochester, NYRegistered User regular
    edited June 2013
    She has never completed a comic strip in her life, as far as I can tell. Whatever you might say about her now three elimination strips, when compared to her concept art for Cloud Factory, you cannot honestly claim she was finished with her strips.
    Again, I'm not comparing Lexxy's elimination strips to her illustration work. I'm comparing her comics to her comics. I understand that some people have decided that her elimination comics is just a "style" but the technical details, her own words, and the comparisons you can make to her other work in and out of Strip Search would clearly indicate that she needed more time to clean up her strips.

    Okay, so are they comics or not? Has she ever finished one? If they're not and she hasn't, then you have no basis for comparison. You're comparing nothing, a null set, to nothing. If they are considered comics so that you can form a basis for comparison, then she has completed one and your first statement is incorrect. Either way, you directly contradicted yourself.
    She missed a whole day of competition. Presumably she got a much better sleep during her day off, plus she managed to skip a possible elimination. Let's not forget, she was there on the first morning still working on a contract piece having stayed up all night to finish it (and still needed a bit more time). No matter what her strengths might have been in the challenge that day, I'm absolutely certain she would have struggled to complete the contract art work for WotC in the time allotted.
    As for her missing a day of the competition. Yes, I had some conjecture, but mostly I stated facts.

    "She missed a whole day of competition": FACT

    "Presumably she got a much better sleep during her day off": CONJECTURE

    "Plus she managed to skip a possible elimination": FACT but there's no guarantee that she would have been chosen. Speculating either way is CONJECTURE.

    "Let's not forget, she was there on the first morning still working on a contract piece having stayed up all night to finish it": FACT but irrelevant to the day at hand; however, if you are trying to bring it into this converation, then you're assuming then that she had another piece of contract work that she hadn't finished that would have affected the day in question. That makes it a hypothetical situation where you're making an assumption about the outcome, an unproven proposition, which is, of course, CONJECTURE

    "No matter what her strengths might have been in the challenge that day, I'm absolutely certain she would have struggled to complete the contract art work for WotC in the time allotted": CONJECTURE

    [Edited: Toned down some potentially combative language.]

    hotzp on
    A Concerned Citizen
  • Yasmine TeethYasmine Teeth Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    ahdok wrote: »
    I have no reason to try to reason with any of emarecksaykay's 'reasoning' in this thread, because I can't reasonably expect a reasonable response.
    However, I will argue with one very specific point, simply because the counter-argument is totally awesome, and I think we could all enjoy it again.
    I'm absolutely certain she would have struggled to complete the contract art work for WotC in the time allotted.

    Ahem.

    tumblr_ml4s4niDtJ1qd80v3o1_1280.jpg

    Alas, that is not a complete drawing. The hands, legs, and flames are basically unfinished scribbles. It's the start of a good drawing but does not address the point of difficulty completing work in the time allotted.

    Yasmine Teeth on
  • GamercowGamercow Registered User regular
    The term that I think people are looking for is not high-concept, but rather highly conceptual.

  • WookieMonsterWookieMonster Registered User regular
    I have been vindicated! When Lexxy was brought back there were so many people saying "Oh, she's guaranteed victory. This is such BS. etc..."

    I said that just because she got pulled back in was not a guarantee of her winning and she could very well get kicked again, if she didn't perform well in a future elimination... Well, here you go!

    Spman2099Cambiata
  • Finnish_LineFinnish_Line Registered User regular
    Hey, who would like to see them film a celebrity Thunderdome or two? I would love to see what people like Mike and Scott could come up with.

    Yes please. They have the set and the basket right there.

    A Concerned Citizen
  • ClockworkNecktieClockworkNecktie Registered User new member
    Lexxy is, of course, correct that a comic doesn't need to be funny. It DOES, however, need good pacing. Humorous comics just heighten this need, because you can still be sad/insightful/moving/etc with crappy pacing but it's almost impossible to be funny - but that said, pacing is one of the hugely important elements of comics that a lot of people seem to be underestimating.

    It's like when everyone bags on Abby as being "inexperienced but funny." It's not like Abby is just tossing out one-liners with some scribbles next to them; each of her comics absolutely depends on extremely well-managed pacing and a very high amount of expressiveness in her characters (despite their simple and cartoony design). Lexxy is almost Abby's opposite in that respect: incredibly detailed and beautiful art, but she just doesn't have the sense of pacing to get a really visceral reaction.

    Look at her comic here, for example: the punchline is in the first panel. Everything after that is very pretty, but what are we getting from it? Pretty much the chance to enjoy some awesome art.

    Lexxy's felt a bit worried about her "comic chops," and I think this is one area where she could really work to improve. Comics are a deliberate sequence of text and images, and if you're not paying enough attention to the sequence you're missing a huge part of what makes comics so expressive. Fortunately, in a comic like "Cloud Factory" seems to be, she'll have enough plot twists and gorgeous art and other great assets to give her time to develop that.

    TL;DR: Lexxy was the best artist in the house but not the best cartoonist.

    Puddingpie
  • ahdokahdok Figment of your imagination Registered User regular
    Alas, that is not a complete drawing. The hands, legs, and flames are basically unfinished scribbles. It's the start of a good drawing but does not address the point of difficulty completing work in the time allotted.

    Alas, that is not a complete post. You forgot to mention how totally badass the picture is.

    http://www.socksandpuppets.com for comics, art and other junk.
    LampenderandrewshoeboxjeddySpman2099Puddingpie
  • MatriasMatrias Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    the mental backflips some of you guys are doing to make a bad person out of nothing is pretty remarkable.

    Matrias on
    3DS/Pokemon Friend Code - 2122-5878-9273 - Kyle
    tastydonutsEricsSpman2099A Concerned CitizenMKF36ERuby Rhod
  • mri80mri80 Registered User regular
    Lexxy managed to use her time on the show to successfully fund a kickstarter project that will allow her to follow her passion. Meanwhile emarecksaykay used a couple of hours to write a bunch of the lengthiest downvoted posts I've seen in a while. Time management issues indeed.

    KadienderandrewKazitronEricsdewordeA Concerned CitizengeekymoxieWeedLordVegetaPuddingpie
  • GPrime85GPrime85 New JerseyRegistered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Dear internet friends whom I've never met,

    You can't put out a fire by feeding it fuel. Let's simply apply the downvotes and leave the haters alone to stew in those dark holes they live in. Skip their comments. Perhaps they will notice nobody is listening to them and they'll mellow out. You know, since we're in such a Biblical mood today, maybe you'll permit me to quote the Good Book: "A little bit of yeast leavens the whole loaf." In the same way it only takes a pinch of yeast to affect an entire loaf of bread, it only takes one or two jerks to ruin a community (for example a message board).

    On topic: Looking forward to what happens next on the show, and I'm so glad for Abby that she's in the top three. While I like Maki, I wouldn't be surprised if she made it to the finals against Katie. That would be amazing to watch.

    Also, wouldn't it be interesting if the final day's challenge is for the contestants to go through the PA New Hire process? Five points for me if that's what ends up happening. =)

    GPrime85 on
    T-boltA Concerned Citizen
  • OckhamsFollyOckhamsFolly Registered User regular
    Good episode with good artists. It's sad to see Lexxy go, but it had to be someone. She's wildly talented and I'm really looking forward to The Cloud Factory. She had a very successful kickstarter, so she's gotten the time she needed.

    Going forward, two of my top three are still in it, and the third just went home. Can't be upset about that. I think Lexxy is right about Abby; when it comes down to it, I really think she Is the strip they are searching for. Sadly, her work does not appeal to me, but I'm willing to admit that that is a personal problem and nothing to do with her. But I think she's going to win it (though I'm still rooting for Katie).

    A Concerned Citizen
  • thehokiestpokeythehokiestpokey Registered User regular
    Neither comic was particularly funny, so I would have picked Lexxy. The art was better.

    A Concerned Citizen
  • NavyBeanNavyBean Registered User regular
    Do Mike and Jerry use the "it's so high concept" line too much for anyone's liking?

    Not me, I love it.

  • Add in CanadiaAdd in Canadia Registered User regular
    If this competition was about artistic skill and artistic skill only Abby would have long been eliminated and Lexxy would be still in this, course that's not the case. When it comes to comic strips there pretty much needs to be some kind of humor somewhere.

    Objectively Maki did better than Lexxy at delivering something that could be considered a 'comic' strip. Which is to say if the name of the game was to find the best graphic novelist, I think Lexxy would probably win that competition hands down. That kind of competition would be pretty interesting to see as the elimination challenge would then be more written about telling a story as opposed to telling a joke. (Possible spin-off hah)

    Two cents about the topics: Religion + The City. If I was faced with that topic I'd probably set a stand up comic in the future in the year 4000 attempting to make a joke about planes flying into buildings with the crowd going "Boo! Too soon!"

    Religion + Candy. This one I'll surely burn in hell for, but I'd probably have a priest proclaiming "Sinner!" to a child attempting to eat a candy Jesus for defacing the image of their savior, "Sinner" to that child attempting to eat a candy Devil for taking in demonic essence, only to provide that kid with a cock shaped candy in the end.

    Inkstain82
  • Orion7Orion7 Registered User new member
    Yeah, hahahaha, who in their right mind would be interested in comics that aren't funny!? But hey, don't forget to go buy Mike's Daughters of the Eyrewood drawing in the PA store! Or any Lookouts stuff. That stuff is a real knee slapper.

    http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/05/29/daughters-of-the-eyrewood1

  • ElbasunuElbasunu Registered User regular
    If this competition was about artistic skill and artistic skill only Abby would have long been eliminated and Lexxy would be still in this, course that's not the case. When it comes to comic strips there pretty much needs to be some kind of humor somewhere.

    Objectively Maki did better than Lexxy at delivering something that could be considered a 'comic' strip. Which is to say if the name of the game was to find the best graphic novelist, I think Lexxy would probably win that competition hands down. That kind of competition would be pretty interesting to see as the elimination challenge would then be more written about telling a story as opposed to telling a joke. (Possible spin-off hah)

    Two cents about the topics: Religion + The City. If I was faced with that topic I'd probably set a stand up comic in the future in the year 4000 attempting to make a joke about planes flying into buildings with the crowd going "Boo! Too soon!"

    Religion + Candy. This one I'll surely burn in hell for, but I'd probably have a priest proclaiming "Sinner!" to a child attempting to eat a candy Jesus for defacing the image of their savior, "Sinner" to that child attempting to eat a candy Devil for taking in demonic essence, only to provide that kid with a cock shaped candy in the end.

    You might want to re-think your definitive stance on "comic strip." Prince Valiant, Tarzan, Mark Trail, and many others were far from comedic.

    g1xfUKU.png?10zfegkyoor3b.png
    Steam ID: Obos Vent: Obos
    Yasmine Teethenderandrewshoeboxjeddy
  • kitkamrankitkamran Registered User new member
    I really don't get why it has to be funny to be good. Super Hero comics are rarely funny but are still comics. I thought the Wizard of Oz parody Lexxy did was quite humorous even if it lacked a traditional punchline.

    A Concerned Citizen
  • LeyalicLeyalic Registered User new member
    To those who didn't think Maki's strip was funny,

    you're just wrong aren't you?

    LavidiusPavioMichaellane
  • Drunk_caterpillarDrunk_caterpillar Registered User regular
    I'm disappointed that Mike and Jerry have continually overlook stylistic comics in favour of the comic that tries to make a mediocre joke. Monica's dinosaur comic was beautiful, and while there wasn't a huge payoff for Lexxi's comic the art was beautiful and I'm kinda interested in the world; the same could be said of the comic that she drew against Tavis. There's substance in those comics, whereas nothing from the comics that beat them will really stick with me.

    As the creators of Automata and Lookouts/Daughters of the Eyrewood I hope they realize that they might want to broaden their criteria for what makes a good comic.

    dcsig.jpg
    Sejarki
  • sanosuke001sanosuke001 Registered User regular
    If Lexxy just made a joke at the bottom with the battle consisting of really short munchkins looking dumbfounded in front of gigantic demon people and saying something like, "uhh, fuck..." it would have saved her. It looked badass but unfortunately mike and jerry are looking for a "comic" which for a "reality show based on webcomics" kind of implies. I think Lexxy understood that at the end and regardless of her final departure, Cloud Factory is what she wants and she'll be doing it so yay for Lexxy!

    A Concerned Citizen
  • endikuendiku Registered User regular
    Neither comic was particularly funny, so I would have picked Lexxy. The art was better.

    I would agree if this was my own personal little competition, because I care more about artistic quality; but that isn't the game and if I was guest judging I would have handed Maki the win.
    Lexxy is, of course, correct that a comic doesn't need to be funny. It DOES, however, need good pacing.

    Spot on.

    Lexxy's comic has the feeling of being a single page torn from a larger comic book; not that of a single comic strip. There were two things she did wrong.

    1) She should have made the bad guys into something equally as ridiculous and definitive, evil dentists is an example.

    In making them silhouetted warriors I am now interested in this mysterious enemy that we will never find out more about. If this was a comic book, we would learn more about them on the next page, but this is all we are meant to get. A comic strip shouldn't contain ambiguous placeholder characters.

    2) She didn't wrap things up. The final panel doesn't have to be a joke, but it does need to be important to the story. Something that wraps the entire thing up in a bow and gives you that "Ah Ha" perspective that you would never get without reading it. If you lost the last panel on her strip, would it affect the story at all?

    The last panel of her comic isn't an ending to the strip, it's the beginning of an entire new page. This is why everyone has this feeling of incompletion; even though her strip is "technically" complete, her story is not complete at all.

    Lavidiusnaviniea
  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    Inkstain82 wrote: »
    Spman2099 wrote: »
    Well, Lexxy's comic wasn't super strong. Still, I think it was considerably better than Maki's. However, you know how these things are; super subjective. Also, I like Maki, so it doesn't hurt that he won. Lastly, it is nice that all those people who talked about how Penny Arcade "conspired" to have Lexxy win this competition have been definitively proven wrong and silly.

    That's always been a strawman. Sure, you could find some people who opined it. But the thornier issue is whether their relationship with her colored their decisions. And an elimination certainly relieves the pressure, but it doesn't settle the issue.

    And at what point would this "issue" be settled? Are they to never hire or do anything with her again for all times ever? Really, help me out here.

    It can't possibly be settled, short of the invention of both time machines and perfect mind-reading devices.

  • tastydonutstastydonuts Registered User regular
    Inkstain82 wrote: »
    Inkstain82 wrote: »
    Spman2099 wrote: »
    Well, Lexxy's comic wasn't super strong. Still, I think it was considerably better than Maki's. However, you know how these things are; super subjective. Also, I like Maki, so it doesn't hurt that he won. Lastly, it is nice that all those people who talked about how Penny Arcade "conspired" to have Lexxy win this competition have been definitively proven wrong and silly.

    That's always been a strawman. Sure, you could find some people who opined it. But the thornier issue is whether their relationship with her colored their decisions. And an elimination certainly relieves the pressure, but it doesn't settle the issue.

    And at what point would this "issue" be settled? Are they to never hire or do anything with her again for all times ever? Really, help me out here.

    It can't possibly be settled, short of the invention of both time machines and perfect mind-reading devices.

    If only I had a time machine and perfect mind-reading device so that I could go back into the past and stop myself from ever asking that question...

    :|

    “I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone.”
    ― Bill Cosby
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