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Strip Search - Elimination #9

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Posts

  • mcpmcp Registered User regular
    ahdok wrote: »
    airbender3.jpg
    Thanks to you, this was the first thing I noticed when I loaded the Strip Search page this morning.

    walrus.png
    ahdokmiaAusa
  • mr_marsmr_mars Registered User new member
    endiku wrote: »
    Lexxy's comic has the feeling of being a single page torn from a larger comic book; not that of a single comic strip. There were two things she did wrong.

    1) She should have made the bad guys into something equally as ridiculous and definitive, evil dentists is an example.

    In making them silhouetted warriors I am now interested in this mysterious enemy that we will never find out more about. If this was a comic book, we would learn more about them on the next page, but this is all we are meant to get. A comic strip shouldn't contain ambiguous placeholder characters.

    I think you missed the reference, perhaps? The lollipop guild and the lullaby league were the two groups of munchkins that welcomed Dorothy to Munchkinland in the Wizard of Oz. She basically took this idea of a lollipop guild and ran with it. Who better to be the villains than the lullaby league? The silhouettes are even reminiscent of the costumes.

    That said, I can't help but agree that she could have done this better, or at least differently. I really liked her strip, but there's a lot to be said for knowing your audience. Maki's joke wasn't laugh-out-loud funny, but at least there was one. Mike and Jerry have consistently shown that the strip they're looking for has to be funny. We know that Lexi *can* be funny (her areola circus strip is honestly my favourite of the whole series) but this wasn't.

    I really like Lexi, I've enjoyed everything she's produced as part of the competition. I hope that we hear more from her soon. But as soon as I saw that strip I said to myself "she's going home." It was a nice concept, and I would read the hell out of that graphic novel, but it wasn't right for the competition.

    A Concerned Citizen
  • ClockworkNecktieClockworkNecktie Registered User new member
    Also, to everyone complaining about whether or not comics have to be funny - there has only been ONE elimination comic that tried for something other than humor, which was Monica's, and they specifically said they went the other way on that one because Monica's layout and pacing were a bit off, not because there wasn't a joke in it. Lexxy's comic in this episode was obviously trying to be funny - if she didn't manage that, then the comic didn't succeed at what it was trying to do.

  • CybexxCybexx Registered User regular
    No shots of Maki returning to the house victorious? I guess because its the first morning elimination round and we don't really know what they are planning for the rest of the competition with only 3 contestants left.

    Since I was one of Lexxy's backers on her Kickstarter for Cloud Factory I knew she was going to get eliminated at some point, #4 is not too shabby considering her lean towards illustration over joke-a-day webcomics.

  • secondsecond Registered User regular
    I still feel lexxy's first comic (the aereola circus one) was one of my favorites.

    enderandrewInkstain82
  • RemielRemiel Registered User regular
    Lexxy hitting Mike with the truth... Gotta make Mike laugh to win. I wonder why she didn't bother trying to make Mike laugh though.
    Maki had the better comic, but this wasn't his best work.
    The Lexxy haters will rejoice (rollseyes), but I'm looking forward to seeing The Cloud Factory.

    While it is true that the "funny" comics have had an edge over the "unfunny" comics, I don't think that was the single deciding factor here. Remember that Lexxy's "Aureola Circus" wasn't particularly funny, and yet Mike and Jerry liked it so much that they sent Nick packing in order to bring Lexxy back. They loved Monica's "Dinosaur Roller Skates" enough that they didn't want to destroy it. While it is true that Maki's comic contained a punchline, and Lexxy's arguably didn't, remember that Maki also used color; Lexxy didn't. Additionally, I think Mike and Jerry were suitably impressed that Maki took their advice from the last elimination to heart, enough so that they factored it into their decision as well.

    Lexxy's art is gorgeous, and she will no doubt go on to bigger and better things. Even the Lexxy haters have to admit that she is destined for stardom. But, as talented as she is, she simply, to quote the show, wasn't the cartoonist they were looking for.

    Completely satisfied with tonight's outcome. I have nothing against Lexxy whatsoever, but Maki is simply too talented and clever NOT to make it into the final three. Katie and Abby both deserve to be there as well. Can't wait to see who it ultimately comes down to. A week ago, I would have said Maki and Katie, no question, but Abby has proven consistently that those who underestimate her do so at their own peril.

  • LoneGunmanLoneGunman Registered User regular
    Fucking Jerry: "I'm engorged!" Love it!

    Dammit, Lexxy! It looks good but not funny...Poops...



    GethPuddingpie
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    Abby would benefit the most from the prizes on offer- not that Katie and Maki wouldn't benefit greatly as well- and that's about where I am. I'm rooting on need. You know PA would have a lot more advanced stuff than the traditional methods made available to her (she said budget was one reason she went that way); you know Mike would take a great interest in giving her as many pointers as she's willing to take, and of course the year in close proximity to Khoo. And I have a feeling that by the time the year is out she may have an offer to just go ahead and stick around.

    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
    Puddingpie
  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    Lexxy's art (in the elimination strips, not her illustration work) for me is on the list of "everybody is raving about it, and they aren't all crazy, but I just don't get it" things. It just looks mediocre to me, all ink-smudgy and rough.

    I'll file it next to Wall-E (what a snoozefest) and almost all indie music.

    Knytestorme
  • AnatoleAnatole Registered User, ClubPA regular
    Does Lexxy have some kind of internet anti-fandom that burbles up whenever she's on the show? I hadn't heard of any of these people before SS except Erika, and the trolling started well before the double-elim, so I can only assume it's something outside of SS. Amy at least had some (rather mild) metagaming going on before people pronounced her History's Greatest Monster but I'm completely lost on the Lexxy thing.

    enderandrew
  • mcpmcp Registered User regular
    It's the internet.

    Here's a thing on the internet.

    Some people gonna figure out a way to be terrible about it.

    walrus.png
    Gamercow
  • miaAusamiaAusa GOD Gamer Of Daters ValhallaRegistered User regular
    edited June 2013
    This was really a good pull for the elimination after Maki used his redraw card, I'm glad he did I think it was better words to work with, this was a fun comic to make for the elimcomic challenge at home and for fun, I'm a little sad Lexxy lost but I really love Maki too so this is tough, but I really love maki he's awesome, the Katie and Abby are awesome too this is going to be hard to watch, I really love all three, I really loved Lexxy's comic too I found it rather funny even though they said they didn't find it so humorous but I thought it was rather funny, they almost really seemed equal strips to me.

    BL8ijSnCcAAF3ap.jpg:large

    miaAusa on
    ahdoknaviniea
  • Spman2099Spman2099 Registered User regular
    MTeson wrote: »
    I don't think it's this. Commence total speculation and inaccurate judgment, but it's something more complicated than "people don't like her because she's confident." People liked Amy and Amy was confident. No, Lexxy's not a "typical socially awkward introvert" at all, but she's a typical socially awkward extrovert, which is a different beast.

    You are forgetting that Amy was the person to hate before Lexxy...
    Inkstain82 wrote: »

    That's always been a strawman. Sure, you could find some people who opined it. But the thornier issue is whether their relationship with her colored their decisions. And an elimination certainly relieves the pressure, but it doesn't settle the issue.

    That is in no way a straw man argument. There were people who literally believed that Penny Arcade had rigged the show in Lexxy's favour. I was only addressing those people. Surely it is not a redirection to point out that ones basic premise was shown to be wholly false. I feel no responsibility to examine the deeper implications of the statement; my only concern is the argument itself. The argument itself, without any doubt, was absolutely put to the sword by this elimination.

    CambiataA Concerned CitizenPuddingpie
  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    Anatole wrote: »
    Does Lexxy have some kind of internet anti-fandom that burbles up whenever she's on the show? I hadn't heard of any of these people before SS except Erika, and the trolling started well before the double-elim, so I can only assume it's something outside of SS. Amy at least had some (rather mild) metagaming going on before people pronounced her History's Greatest Monster but I'm completely lost on the Lexxy thing.

    It was originally directed at Mike and Jerry, but it only really kicked up on Lexxy's end after Amy, the first "villain", left. Okay, who else can we hate around here? Oh, yeah, they brought back someone who they'd previously eliminated! THIS IS CLEARLY HER FAULT NOW! BURN HER!

    A couple even briefly decided to go after Tavis for, as far as I can gather, being the guy that beat Lexxy when clearly she should have won that Thunderdome in the first place. That line got squashed in a hurry.

    Haters gonna hate.

    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
    Cambiata
  • ClockworkNecktieClockworkNecktie Registered User new member
    Lexxy is an assertive woman, which means that she will spend her entire life with a bevy of people hating no her for no good reason, especially in a geek culture that's still pretty misogynistic. But it also means that, like Mike and Jerry said, she's not going to give up or wilt when things get tough, and she probably WILL be a star even if she has to lose a dozen more game shows to get there.

    CorysaurusCambiataRuby Rhod
  • GreeperGreeper Registered User regular
    Comic strips need a joke?

    Like Lookouts?

    Greeper is now Minister Of Communication in my new regime.
    BeNarwhal wrote: »
    Syndalis, if you knew anything about Greeper, you would know Greeper is never not field dressing a stag.
    Cambiata
  • ghostcatghostcat Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    I liked 'em both.

    ghostcat on
  • DerpadoodooDerpadoodoo Registered User regular
    She should have made them fight teeth.

  • parmeisanparmeisan Registered User regular
    Anatole wrote: »
    Does Lexxy have some kind of internet anti-fandom that burbles up whenever she's on the show? I hadn't heard of any of these people before SS except Erika, and the trolling started well before the double-elim, so I can only assume it's something outside of SS. Amy at least had some (rather mild) metagaming going on before people pronounced her History's Greatest Monster but I'm completely lost on the Lexxy thing.
    It's possible that some of the pre-zombification hate had something to do with 1) her being on the New Hire episodes (possibly gained anti-fans there; I dunno, I didn't watch them) and 2) her not having a comic (although she wasn't the only one).

  • MTesonMTeson Austin, TXRegistered User regular
    My previous post wasn't meant to show off how much I disliked Lexxy - on the contrary, I think she's great. I just feel bad because I think professional relationship building is just about the single most important skill that someone in the art/entertainment/media field ought to have outside of their actual craft, and it's coincidentally the ONE thing that no one teaches you, and it's the thing you don't learn until you've lost a job or two. I see Lexxy on the show making mistakes around people that I used to make.

    And it's sad because geek settings like this tend to be FILLED with people who don't think about this stuff - people with normal jobs that don't require such keen political sense, people who aren't MBA-type slick operators. And you know, they're artists, you go to art school specifically to avoid this bullshit. But - it also makes it easy to forget that it's still part of the real world and there are still these sorts of political issues even when we're all artists together and everyone is helping everyone.

    Lastly I wonder if the show would have edited Lexxy this way if they knew what a backlash she would receive. I've worked on some slick-ass reality TV. This show is not that. It's a good first attempt, but the people making it are not really as interested in constructing artificial narratives as, say, the Top Model people are. They're probably trying to be accurate and entertaining and fair. I'm assuming that what I'm seeing is more accurate to the personality of the person than it would be if this were Survivor or the Bachelor or whatever. Considering that this show and the creators seem to care more about giving every single artist exposure and a leg up than actually picking a winner, why would they want to edit anyone into a villain? Why would they want to sabotage Lexxy like that? Especially if they clearly like her so much?

    tastydonutsSpman2099
  • ahdokahdok Figment of your imagination Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    I've given my wrist a thorough workout today, and managed to do this in time. If you count saving the image file and uploading it to the internet, I ran over time.

    2013-06-04-323twixmas.jpg

    Funtimes note. The physical original for this (and I haven't rescaled anything, so most of the page is the outline of that paper for the text) was A5. That means it appears on my monitor at approximately three-times its real size.

    Funtimes note 2. Our mouths in panel 2 are white because they are full of marshmallow. NOT because I forgot to colour them and had no time to doublecheck. The character in panel 4 also has white eyes because he has an unusual genetic makeup.

    Serious question. How the hell do you people function without Blu-tack?

    Funtimes note 3. I've just remembered that in this particular house, at this particular time, there was no washing machine, because the old one broke, and the people living there hadn't bought a new one yet. Instead, where the washing-machine was supposed to be (in the kitchen where this scene took place) there was a 3ft tall inflatable spinosaurus that everyone called "the washing machine."

    ahdok on
    http://www.socksandpuppets.com for comics, art and other junk.
    miaAusaInkstain82
  • LampLamp Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    One thing that's interesting about these eliminations is that they are basically a test of improv skills. The artists are given two topics and forced to create based on that whether they have a good idea or not. Improvisational humor is a skill, but it's not necessarily a skill that every cartoonist or stand-up comic or humorist has. Writing jokes based on your own ideas vs. writing jokes based on someone else's ideas are very different skills.

    I understand WHY they chose to do it this way (a common theme gives the judge's a reasonable standard by which to judge the strips against one another) but I also feel that it probably handicaps some artists much more than others.

    Edit: And I also think this fact is Abby's big, big advantage in this contest. I've said it before but Abby can write on any topic because she doesn't have to rely on a coming up with a good concept for a joke. Many of her best strips have nothing that could be called a punchline. She can get big laughs just from the absurdist tone that is her specialty. In THIS contest she will be really, really hard to beat.

    Lamp on
    Puddingpie
  • MTesonMTeson Austin, TXRegistered User regular
    edited June 2013
    I wanted to build on someone else's comment about how funny comics are easier to pace. I think that hits the nail right on the head. I think Lexxy in all her comics has pure art, but not that sense of careful sequential pacing and how to construct a good scene with beats and ups and downs. It lacks writing in the structural sense.

    Which, to me, is what bugs me about Monica getting eliminated. Monica's stript TOTALLY had that. It wasn't funny, but it was really well crafted and had that pacing. It was just bittersweet instead of setup/punchline. A lot of times when people say "I don't get the joke" or "there is no joke," they mean that they don't see the narrative setup and payoff that a good strip ought to have. So it bugs me that Lexxy's joke, which is in many ways the SAME JOKE that Maki did, beat out Monica's strip even though Monica's was so clearly better in terms of structure and story and writing - and her art was good too! The idea of the words floating over the dinosaur who was sleeping and then the silhouette of the dino skating away, it was really creative and visual storytelling.

    Anyway, water under the bridge. I think the final 3 are more or less correct based on what I have been able to see. I thought it was really cool how Maki has learned from his last strip, and I can't wait to see Katie get back into the ring after so long.

    MTeson on
    glorpFelipesnac
  • ahdokahdok Figment of your imagination Registered User regular
    I would like to give Maki my deep and personal thanks for removing "The City" and replacing it with "Candy" - "Religion / The City" is a horrendous pairing for everyone.

    http://www.socksandpuppets.com for comics, art and other junk.
  • chasabchasab Registered User regular
    So much for no longer destroying the artwork eh

  • parmeisanparmeisan Registered User regular
    Really, "the city" is boring with almost anything. Except possibly Areola.

  • FelipesnacFelipesnac Registered User new member
    I don't exactly understand how people can hate any of these contestants. I mean, they are so nice and the atmosphere at the house is cool, plus they are all talented artists. Some of them honestly don't even need this job. So I just don't get all this hating-Lexxy thing.

    That said, although I really love Lexxy and her style, I'm glad Maki won this challenge. Some of his drawings are superb and I do think his strip was stronger.

    And the top 3 definetely deserves to be there: Abby is surprisingly funny (the funniest of them all - took me 5 min to stop laughing at that cat strip), Maki is just an amazing ilustrator and quite a good cartoonist, really, and Katie is just more and more surprising. I can't wait to see how this is going to end.

  • MTesonMTeson Austin, TXRegistered User regular
    Agreed. Everyone on this show has been a real stand-up person. And I love that the show and PA have gone out of their way to showcase as many of their side projects as possible to give them all exposure and expertise and face time. It really doesn't feel like it's about picking a winner and then everyone else goes to hell.

    A Concerned CitizenPuddingpie
  • ahdokahdok Figment of your imagination Registered User regular
    chasab wrote: »
    So much for no longer destroying the artwork eh

    Yeah, I understood that comment the same way you did, especially as they hadn't destroyed Monica's strip the previous week.

    I think when they said "we're no longer destroying bad comics" what they meant was "now we're destroying good comics" but I think we all heard that as "we've stopped destroying comics."

    http://www.socksandpuppets.com for comics, art and other junk.
  • MKF36EMKF36E Untitled EarthRegistered User regular
    I wasn't happy about the decision to bring Lexxy back but she's PA forum folk and PA forum folk are family. Nothing less honorific than a viking funeral for her departure. Blow the horns, et cetera.

    But . . . she's still alive?

  • Just_OnceJust_Once Registered User regular
    Hi guise. I signed up just for this. Normally I'm content just lurking.
    Lexxy is involved and we only get 3 pages of comments? I'm surprised. FUEL THE FIRE!

    Lexxy only attracts haters because she has such a big, wonderful following. It's like Mike said over dinner at Khoo's : you can't please everyone and, a lot of times, you'll piss off a bunch of people too.

    I have no polarized feelings/opinions regarding any participants here and I do understand where everybody comes from with their respective opinions, positive and negative.

    I did not want Lexxy to take SS home, because of the fact that she had been brought back. When I saw that they were re-inviting her, I thought : "Hmmm...she got cut out fair and square; if they like her so much why don't they just hire her straight up?" I would be twice as excited if they had just done that because her artwork is goddamn amazing (yay for PA) and it would have kept the competition uh..."fair" (yay for SS). Not one other participant got this big an advantage in the whole competition. Including challenge winners.

    In the New Hire episode, Khoo said Lexxy reminded him of someone. And that this someone in particular had to be let go, specifically due to a personality flaw which I won't re-re-re-repeat here. ***REWIND*** Ping Pong challenge : everyone sporting proper ping pong attire (from the waist up, at the very least). Everyone but Lexxy. In fact, I think she had more cleavage that time than in any other episode of this show so far. She did not do this to show off, I know that much. But in the end it's the same result : she stands out. I swear I was feeling uneasy for her on that one. Khoo knows his shit. He called this out some years ago and it still holds true.

    On an unrelated note, this comment section has the second biggest use of the juxtaposed letters "S" and "S" in the world, the reigning champion being some 3rd Reich enthusiasts bbs.

  • Add in CanadiaAdd in Canadia Registered User regular
    "You might want to re-think your definitive stance on "comic strip." Prince Valiant, Tarzan, Mark Trail, and many others were far from comedic."

    I think the important thing about this particular thought is that when it comes to old print comics, they could be utterly atrocious but they'd still get printed. You'd have strips that wandered from point A to point B and left the reader wondering "What was the point?" with the reality there was none. This isn't to say what was listed are bad, but getting a comic strip published in the 'old days' was about pleasing newspaper editors as opposed to pleasing an actual audience.

    We're in 2013 now and the success of comic strips these days is based not on newspapers but on the Internet. Web comics are primary humor based (at least the ones which are successful) and it's a completely one sided affair. Few people pay attention to comic strips that take themselves way too seriously, it doesn't sell well. I'm sure even PA knows this well due to the backlash they get whenever they put out something that isn't basically a fart joke.

    This isn't to mention the various stick-men based comics that are popular, which again points out that artistic skill isn't necessarily important to success: The ability to write an engaging strip is.

    Sure you can write a serious comic strip, but the bar for it to be a success is much much higher than writing a humor based comic strip. Of the serious or semi-serious comic strips I'm aware of, many of them incorporate humor to break up the pacing of the story being told; so even for those who want to write a non-humor based comic strip, they need to have the skills to be able to pace out a joke.

    Just_Once
  • Inkstain82Inkstain82 Registered User regular
    It's one of the official rules of the internet: If it can be labeled, it can and will be hated.

    I rooted against her after the re-entry because the re-entry rubbed me the wrong way, and I don't see what's so great about her comic art (though I suspect that's more me than the art. I just have a terrible eye for visual elements), but I see little wrong with her as a person. No moreso wrong with her than anyone else.

    We're at the point now where it's in a permanent cycle. Her small army of haters and her rather large army of fans will be locked in combat forever.

  • PolynomialsPolynomials Registered User regular
    Goddammit...Lexxy is just so aware of herself and so confident. You can't shake this girl. I don't understand how she can consistently kick ass and not have won a single challenge.

  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    edited June 2013
    parmeisan wrote: »
    Really, "the city" is boring with almost anything. Except possibly Areola.

    After the mystery/naughty round, I made a wastebasket that I still have no idea what to do with, filling it with topics I hadn't seen yet. 'Candy' and 'religion' both got in (along with 'dinosaurs', 'cats' and what I wrote down as 'driving'), but when I came up against the location issue, I noted that, paradoxially, limiting things a bit opened up the avenues for attack. 'City' is too wide. It gives paralysis of choice. To that end, I favored specific geographical locations (and not necessarily cities at that), namely ones that led themselves to a relatively wide variety of options but still gave you a definite direction. So instead of 'religion' and 'city', you'd get 'religion' and, say, 'Germany'.

    Gosling on
    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
    parmeisan
  • AnnaAnna Registered User regular
    Lamp wrote: »
    I understand WHY they chose to do it this way (a common theme gives the judge's a reasonable standard by which to judge the strips against one another) but I also feel that it probably handicaps some artists much more than others.

    I agree, which is why I expected/wished the final challenge to be something significantly different. On the other hand, I'm not really clear yet on exactly what kind of "stripper they're searching for"; based on the elimination challenges it feels that they're looking for someone most capable of producing gag-a-day strips/make Mike laugh (in which case, the trophy went to Abby), but based on overall competition it also feels like they're looking for the complete package of artistic skills and know-how of webcomic industry (in which case, Katie's overall achievements speak for themselves). I think the latter made more sense, especially considering the really subjective nature of the former. To demonstrate, here's my personal rankings of all the elimination strips:

    (1) Katie's space ping pong (2) Monica's roller-blading dinosaur (3) Abby's naughty mystery (4) Abby's cats & car (5) Maki's ukulele mermaid (6) Erika's naughty mystery (7) Katie's lost in the future (8) Lexxy's areola circus (9) Tavis' cats & car (10) Lexxy's dino rollers (11) Tavis' areola circus (12) Nick's flatulence fair (13)Ty's lost in the future (14) Mac's flatulence fair (15) Alex' space ping pong (16) Amy's ukulele mermaid.

    And that's just me. Most of the time I lean more toward well-executed artistic/thoughtful piece rather than well-executed gag-a-day, I occasionally prefer dry wit over straightforward humor, and I have strong aversion against pop culture referencing. But, I can imagine lots of people have their own subjective and radically different list.

    I wonder if it's possible that they would implement some sort of public voting/polling mechanism for the live finale. Probably not. In any case, I hope the finale would involve the dead artists in some way.

  • FnordalFnordal Registered User regular
    Lexxy is a a very good artist, but I'm not sold on her skill as a webcartoonist. Maybe she hasn't found her way yet (as a cartoonist), maybe she'll never find it.

    She's a great illustrator, and I'm really looking forward to get her new kickstarted work, but I think her elimination was right: the final three are probably, sic rebus stantibus, better than her at writing/drawing webcomics.



    Pavio
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    Maybe we should just change the thread title to "BUT WHAT ABOUT LOOKOUTS?!"

  • SomeursaultSomeursault Registered User regular
    My only beef with Lexxy is that I loved Monica and wish that she could have gotten a second chance instead. That's reality TV though, you have your favorites and you get mad at whoever knocks them out for whatever reason. I thought Monica was funnier. I doubt Lexxy would take that as a huge insult! She said herself in this episode that she tries not to cross boundaries for a joke, and it's pretty tough to be funny when you're concerned with producing inoffensive material. For all I know she's a riot when she isn't trying to ensure family appeal and she's just hanging out with her friends or whatever; if so, she should put that in her work instead.

    Strange to see the "men don't want assertive women to succeed!" narrative applied here.

  • AnatoleAnatole Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited June 2013
    "The City" and "County Fair" would make for some pretty obvious comedy, I think.

    Anyway I'm neutral towards Lexxy. I agreed with the double-elim that seemed to rustle everyone's jimmies, but disagreed with the decision when she beat Monica. I'll definitely be keeping an eye on Cloud Factory though since it's geared for her style and the show wasn't.

    Anatole on
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