[PA Comic] Wednesday, June 12, 2013 - Aftermath

2

Posts

  • DelzhandDelzhand Agrias Fucking Oaks Registered User, Transition Team regular
    It seems like during the summer months the newspost doesn't show up until well into the afternoon. It's been that way for as long as I can remember.

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    Well I mean, we all saw this comic coming about fifty miles away. The entire gaming community did a collective "Oooooooohhh, you got served son!" on Monday...this basically had to be the comic for today. Waiting for the news post to see what Tycho has to say.

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    And here's the newspost.
    For as long as I’ve been actively watching industry events unfold, I don’t think I’ve we’ve ever seen anything quite like what happened at Sony’s press conference. It was a conflagration that consumed every cubic centimeter of Microsoft’s rhetorical oxygen. The damage was so absolute that to speak publicly in defense of the device known as the “Xbone” is to be made a fool. I would avoid the punch at Microsoft’s afterparty.

    Until that evening, I thought the presentation from MS had good things going for it; your mileage may vary, dependent wholly upon your definition of “good.” Titanfall is one of very, very few meaningful exclusives, for example. But publishers are basically letting them twist in the wind, now, even though the system was created more or less to court their stated aims. The topic of Restrictions On Used is so toxic that nobody wants anywhere near it; they don’t want to join Microsoft at the bottom of the ocean.

    When we were sitting down to write the strip, I happened to see a PS4 story on Kontralto called “Third Party Publishers Will Have Final Say On Used Games,” and I don’t know entirely what that means, but it does appear to mean something less universal than the thunderously applauded public beheading we witnessed earlier.

    At a hundred dollars, the price differential is almost entirely down to the universal inclusion of Microsoft’s sorcerous new Kinect. Before the relative prices were established, it was possible to float by, buoyed by brand loyalty or any other thing. After that, there was no after that - only a blast plain. The show was over. When I went to Amazon to preorder a PS4 - I’ll buy the console online now too, thanks, along with all my games - there is a PS4 “Launch Edition” that seems to include their camera but there’s currently no price listed. I’m smart, though; I can figure it out.

    This generation is informed by the last, and this hungry Sony is the result of long years of war. From the first leaks, Microsoft has been on the run and they never got in front of it. It’s a disappointing state of affairs - I think we’re all better served when there is a skirmish.

    Even if Microsoft can’t communicate it, or did it in a way that people manifestly despise, there has to be a conversation about the portability of digital rights that covers the libraries we accrue on modern devices, up to and including Steam. This is very much a triumph of the status quo, and the status quo where electronic “property” is concerned kinda sucks.

    (CW)TB out.

  • birdland1115birdland1115 Registered User new member
    edited June 2013
    Hevach wrote: »
    Microsoft has backed down on most of their really big failed concepts in the past, but right now they seem particularly obstinate. There's still no sign of budging on the Windows 8 interface, for example

    I'm not sure that this will 'fail' however. If their promise of gaming supported by cloud computing really does prove to be superior, they might financially succeed in the long run. They may end up with a very iphone-esque demographic that doesn't purchase as many units as other users, but voraciously consume software.

    I'm very doubtful of this happening, but it seems to be the bet that MS is making.

    And to be fair they have added the start button back into windows 8.1

    birdland1115 on
  • KaemonKaemon Registered User regular
    He's wrong on what the launch edition is. The launch edition seems to be just the orders that amazon knows they can fufill on launch day. My order I placed the second it went up shows as that.
    hnKwfYK.png

  • SkeleVaderSkeleVader Your Friendly Dark Lord of Destruction Registered User regular
    I want Steam style gaming on the console so I will be getting an Xbone.
    Disc based media is slowly dieing and games will be next. Xbox has set themselves up perfectly for the future. Sony is living in the past.

    0hy0sznvqw4d.png
  • KaemonKaemon Registered User regular
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    I want Steam style gaming on the console so I will be getting an Xbone.
    Disc based media is slowly dieing and games will be next. Xbox has set themselves up perfectly for the future. Sony is living in the past.

    If you think you're going to get Steam Style gaming from the Xbox Vista, you're mistaken. They won't do any sales like steam does.

  • GaddezGaddez Registered User regular
    I'm somewhat amazed by Tycho's lack of bite with regards to the shoddy product that MS is trying to foist on us. Like, we have a product that is front loaded with a bunch of things that should be red flags to gamers everywhere, has one of their main presenters badly fumbling a question about consumers with poor internet connections (We have a product for them. It's called an Xbox 360)... and all he has to say is "we don't like to kick people when they are down"?

    Since when has this been policy? Christ, kicking people when they're down has to be the direct inspiration of at least 35% of PA comics!

  • GnarlGnarl Registered User regular
    Apologies for taking part in OT but I find it to be a very important one...
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Lucascraft wrote: »
    KalTorak wrote: »
    I wonder if MS would have been able to mitigate the reaction to their spy-cam if the whole NSA thing hadn't come out around the same time.

    I don't follow a lot of current events. What NSA thing are you talking about?
    The NSA is literally spying on everything you do and Microsoft is helping them. The NSA will have an always on camera in the home of everyone with an Xbone. It is literally 1984.

    Would you like a tinfoil hat with that crazy statement? Metadata isn't the same as data.

    Plenty of reasonable things to hate Microsoft for without people making stuff up.

    Saying it's literally 1984 is an overstatement, of course. On the other hand, being oblivious to the obvious - that the powers that be are successfully working towards instituting complete control, is far worse. I think, given the current state of affairs, that exaggeration or even paranoia is preferable to underestimating the gravity of the situation. The latter, I'm afraid, could make some grim prophecies come true. Go tinfoil hat men!

  • GnomeTankGnomeTank What the what? Portland, OregonRegistered User regular
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    I want Steam style gaming on the console so I will be getting an Xbone.
    Disc based media is slowly dieing and games will be next. Xbox has set themselves up perfectly for the future. Sony is living in the past.

    The entirety of gaming culture fundamentally disagrees with you, and has stated so incredibly loudly. Enjoy your "future" of 24 hour checkins and hard locked DRM I guess?

    Sagroth wrote: »
    Oh c'mon FyreWulff, no one's gonna pay to visit Uranus.
    Steam: Brainling, XBL / PSN: GnomeTank, NintendoID: Brainling, FF14: Zillius Rosh SFV: Brainling
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    I want Steam style gaming on the console so I will be getting an Xbone.
    Disc based media is slowly dieing and games will be next. Xbox has set themselves up perfectly for the future. Sony is living in the past.

    you won't be getting steam style gaming. Steam has an offline mode and great sales. There will be no offline mode, and though I guess miracles could happen, I would not hold my breath waiting for steam level sales

    also, the amount of indie games on steam vs xbone will be night and day.

    so aside from the fact that both steam and xbone will allow you to DL games, the comparisons pretty much stop there.

    Xaquin on
  • SkeleVaderSkeleVader Your Friendly Dark Lord of Destruction Registered User regular
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    I want Steam style gaming on the console so I will be getting an Xbone.
    Disc based media is slowly dieing and games will be next. Xbox has set themselves up perfectly for the future. Sony is living in the past.

    The entirety of gaming culture fundamentally disagrees with you, and has stated so incredibly loudly. Enjoy your "future" of 24 hour checkins and hard locked DRM I guess?

    The entirety vast majority of the console gaming culture has shown a knee jerk reaction.

    I would much rather put up with 24 hour checkins and be able to freely use my licensed games on any Xbone (along with up to 10 family members) than have to cling to a disc based game.

    0hy0sznvqw4d.png
  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    I want Steam style gaming on the console so I will be getting an Xbone.
    Disc based media is slowly dieing and games will be next. Xbox has set themselves up perfectly for the future. Sony is living in the past.

    Comparing the Xbox One to Steam is like comparing getting a blowjob from a $1,000 a night escort service hooker to having your dick bit off by a coke-addicted streetwalker. The actors and objects involved are broadly similar but one is going to give you an immeasurably more pleasant experience.

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Hevach wrote: »
    Microsoft has backed down on most of their really big failed concepts in the past, but right now they seem particularly obstinate. There's still no sign of budging on the Windows 8 interface, for example

    I'm not sure that this will 'fail' however. If their promise of gaming supported by cloud computing really does prove to be superior, they might financially succeed in the long run. They may end up with a very iphone-esque demographic that doesn't purchase as many units as other users, but voraciously consume software.

    I'm very doubtful of this happening, but it seems to be the bet that MS is making.

    Apple made bank on those people, but the iPhone was still a huge success in its own right. Android took a while to overtake it, and I think the iPhone still outsells any single brand of Android smartphone, there's just a lot of people making them now and Apple's still the only iPhone.
    And to be fair they have added the start button back into windows 8.1

    See, this is where I feel stupid. I've been using Start8 so long and seen so many other people using it (and sold it to a number of people myself) that I didn't even realize they went back on it. But, this is my basic point: Microsoft has taken some huge shits on its customers over the years, but it's usually been good enough to clean up afterwards, or in the worse cases (Windows ME) at least erased the video.

    This mocking from Sony might even be good motivation. Microsoft basically just demonstrated how to lose the Prisoner's Dilemma for us. Sony has talked about the same things Microsoft is doing, and stood to gain in the same way. The best profit for the industry as a whole is collaboration - covering alternatives so consumers must accept the restrictions to use the product. However, the best short term profit for either individual company is betrayal - let the other company lead the way and throw fire on the rage.

    Hevach on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    I just posted this over in G&T, but somehow Microsoft has found a way to continue to make this situation worse.
    Henroid wrote: »
    Somehow, Microsoft continues to make things much worse. The XB1 will only work in certain countries, both at launch and over the long term.
    Xbox One to only work in certain countries at launch:

    http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox-one/pre-order-xbox-one/disclaimer

    Australia
    Austria
    Belgium
    Brazil
    Canada
    Denmark
    Finland
    France
    Germany
    Ireland
    Italy
    Mexico
    Netherlands
    New Zealand
    Norway
    Russia
    Spain
    Sweden
    Switzerland
    United Kingdom
    United States
    Xbox One games are for activation and distribution only in specified geographic regions. See game package and/or retailer product information, for each game’s specific geographic regions.

    Z0UBmHr.png?1
    Asian gamers will have to wait a year longer than their American counterparts to get their hands on Microsoft’s Xbox One, which will only be available in the region in late 2014, a year after its U.S. launch this November.
    The new device will only be available in select Asian markets – Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, South Korea and India
    http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/06/11/microsoft-plots-2014-launch-for-xbox-one-in-asia

  • GoslingGosling Looking Up Soccer In Mongolia Right Now, Probably Watertown, WIRegistered User regular
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    I want Steam style gaming on the console so I will be getting an Xbone.
    Disc based media is slowly dieing and games will be next. Xbox has set themselves up perfectly for the future. Sony is living in the past.

    The entirety of gaming culture fundamentally disagrees with you, and has stated so incredibly loudly. Enjoy your "future" of 24 hour checkins and hard locked DRM I guess?

    The entirety vast majority of the console gaming culture has shown a knee jerk reaction.

    I would much rather put up with 24 hour checkins and be able to freely use my licensed games on any Xbone (along with up to 10 family members) than have to cling to a disc based game.

    I'd rather own things that I buy. That's a pretty important point to me.

    I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
  • kyndigkyndig Registered User new member
    edited June 2013
    I know I'll get lambasted for this, but I really don't see what the big issue is. Sony did absolutely nothing revolutionary. The MS system is STILL more lenient than the one that most if not all PC gamers deal with.

    Overall, I think it's going to break down like this:

    DRM-wise, something everyone is ignoring is that Sony and MS are both actually allowing the publishers to decide what they want in each individual game, MS is just being more upfront about it. That includes used game restrictions, internet verification, etc.

    From a play capabilities perspective, they're just extending what it was in the previous generation.

    MS is concentrating on multiplayer, social aspects, and online capabilities. They have the server architecture for huge amounts of cloud computing, which allows huge online worlds, cross-game communication, quick game swapping, and simple, stable, standardized matchmaking methods and multiplayer capabilities ready made for developers. Sony has none of that.

    Sony, on the other hand, is focusing on a single player experience. Less DRM (or at least that's how they're presenting it), slightly better hardware, but very little central server capability (comparatively) - like in the last system, that'll be left up to the individual developers, which will make a mish-mash of anything online.

    So, which you should get is going to be dependent entirely on what experience you want. Frankly, most of what I want to do single player on, I play on the PC; if I want co-op or competitive, non-MMO multiplayer, I go console. So, xbox for me.

    One final note, on the DRM: what it sounds like to me is that the developers have said "hey guys, we want DRM on our console games to prevent used game sales and such. You can do it yourselves, or we can do it our way." MS said "Ok...cool. Well, we'll build this into our console, this is what we're going to let you do, and we'll give you the built in tools to make it happen." Sony, on the other hand, said "eh, whatever, do what you want. We won't stop you but we won't help you." That's pretty much what we had on PC, and any PC gamer will tell you that doesn't make the DRM on PC games any less draconian. More so, really - how much you want to bet that Diablo 3 on the PS4 will require an always-connected internet, whereas MS would only have allowed them to check every 24 hours, hence the fact you won't see it on the Xbox One.

    Edit: The one coup I will grant Sony is to their marketing department. They read public sentiment very well, and directed their message to make them look very, very good. Whether their console lives up to what they're promising or not is an entirely different matter - I'm going to bet you'll see maybe 30% of the games come out with no single-use DRM, if that.

    kyndig on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    kyndig wrote: »
    Sony did absolutely nothing revolutionary.

    That's why they're being held in such high regard.

  • fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    I want Steam style gaming on the console so I will be getting an Xbone.
    Disc based media is slowly dieing and games will be next. Xbox has set themselves up perfectly for the future. Sony is living in the past.

    The entirety of gaming culture fundamentally disagrees with you, and has stated so incredibly loudly. Enjoy your "future" of 24 hour checkins and hard locked DRM I guess?

    The entirety vast majority of the console gaming culture has shown a knee jerk reaction.

    I would much rather put up with 24 hour checkins and be able to freely use my licensed games on any Xbone (along with up to 10 family members) than have to cling to a disc based game.

    i would point to the EA and Ubisoft debacles with offline servers or servers unable to keep up with capacity as a huge warning.

    Steam works well in part because it has unobtrusive DRM that fully supports the consumer but doesn't require an always on connection to phone home.

    any system that has a "phone home" requirement immediately puts you at the mercy of the system manufacturer. it creates focused points of failure, rather than creating an independent system which you control.

    i am incredibly fearful of a product that requires me to plunk down half a grand just to set itself up for disappointment when i learn that server downtime will prevent me from using it to play games, or to lend games out to friends, or to sell used games to others besides Gamestop and Amazon.

    the reaction here is by definition not "kneejerk", because we've all already seen these failures and just how bad consumers get screwed by them. i guess that's an indirect thank you to EA et al?

    ffNewSig.png
    steam | Dokkan: 868846562
  • wormspeakerwormspeaker Objectively Terrible Registered User regular
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    I would much rather put up with 24 hour checkins and be able to freely use my licensed games on any Xbone (along with up to 10 family members) than have to cling to a disc based game.

    I guess you missed the part where you can download games on the PS3 already and continue to do so on the PS4...

  • wormspeakerwormspeaker Objectively Terrible Registered User regular
    "I’m starting to think the Google Glass Explorer program might be less about testing hardware, and more about testing people."

    OH SHIIIIIIIIII
    -Marly

  • HevachHevach Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Steam works well in part because it has unobtrusive DRM that fully supports the consumer but doesn't require an always on connection to phone home.

    It's also useful I think to look at the situations where Steam *doesn't* work. More big non-Valve releases have been enabling pre-loading lately, but a lot still don't, and on release days the downloads bog down until it's basically impossible to get your game. It can even spill over to people who bought the game on disk, since many that activate over steam still have to download the executable.

    This isn't quite as bad as always-on connections can be, at least if you do manage to get a download through the mess you can play the game immediately. But still, even on a good platform, these are frustrations to be endured, not features to duplicate.

    Hevach on
  • SkeleVaderSkeleVader Your Friendly Dark Lord of Destruction Registered User regular
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    I would much rather put up with 24 hour checkins and be able to freely use my licensed games on any Xbone (along with up to 10 family members) than have to cling to a disc based game.

    I guess you missed the part where you can download games on the PS3 already and continue to do so on the PS4...

    I guess you missed the part where I said "freely use". As in any Xbox One, not just the one you bought the game on. Also your family can play all of your games whether you are signed in or not, again on any Xbox One.

    0hy0sznvqw4d.png
  • TravanTravan Registered User regular
    Tycho poses an interesting dilemma: does defending the One make a person a fool, or are only fools still devoted to a product so wildly out of step with the sentiments of core consumers?

    If the quality of the arguments raised by the MS Defense Forces here and elsewhere are any indication, the latter seems more likely.

    Gamertag- Travan7838


  • fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    I would much rather put up with 24 hour checkins and be able to freely use my licensed games on any Xbone (along with up to 10 family members) than have to cling to a disc based game.

    I guess you missed the part where you can download games on the PS3 already and continue to do so on the PS4...

    I guess you missed the part where I said "freely use". As in any Xbox One, not just the one you bought the game on. Also your family can play all of your games whether you are signed in or not, again on any Xbox One.

    do you expect to be using a lot of other Xbox one consoles besides your own? and what will you do when Microsoft's servers inevitably go down, or internet connectivity is generally disrupted?

    ffNewSig.png
    steam | Dokkan: 868846562
  • BolerBoler Registered User regular
    I feel like this needs to be posted for anyone who isn't up to date with everything that happened at the Sony conference that might happen to be reading this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71H69yDZ6W4

  • JortalusJortalus Registered User regular
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    GnomeTank wrote: »
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    I want Steam style gaming on the console so I will be getting an Xbone.
    Disc based media is slowly dieing and games will be next. Xbox has set themselves up perfectly for the future. Sony is living in the past.

    The entirety of gaming culture fundamentally disagrees with you, and has stated so incredibly loudly. Enjoy your "future" of 24 hour checkins and hard locked DRM I guess?

    The entirety vast majority of the console gaming culture has shown a knee jerk reaction.

    I would much rather put up with 24 hour checkins and be able to freely use my licensed games on any Xbone (along with up to 10 family members) than have to cling to a disc based game.

    ...You would make sense if the PS4 didn't come with a built-in 500GB hard-drive and actually HAVE STEAM. The PS3 has Steam...Not fake-steam, not Steam-lite. PS3 has actual Steam functionality. I just...wow, you're really that much of a troll? I can't believe how bad you are at trolling.

  • FramlingFramling FaceHead Geebs has bad ideas.Registered User regular
    So is it just the price difference? Is that it? I don't follow gaming news all that closely, but I keep seeing everyone loudly announcing that it's totally, transparently clear to everyone that the PS4 is just beyond the shadow of any doubt a million times better than the Xbone which is clearly stupid and smells bad. But the price difference thing is the only really compelling reason I've seen.

    There's the used games thing, but I don't sell my games and I very rarely buy used. There's the required internet connection thing, but I already have always-on internet access, and have for like... twelve years. There's the Kinect thing, but I know how to cover up a thing, or plug something into a power strip if I'm feeling paranoid. And the price difference, amortized over six or seven years, comes out to about a buck and a quarter, maybe a buck thirty-five per month. (To be fair, I'll probably also get some kind of discount on the thing when I buy it, because I work here.)

    Oh, I do also remember a lot of people bitching about how it could play TV and do sports-related shit, which I don't really get. That's a bad thing? You don't HAVE to watch sports on it, you know. Pretty sure it's still gonna play video games. And anymore, I probably spend way more time using my 360 for Netflix than I do for games. I can understand if you don't care about those features, and so they don't make you want to buy the new thing. I just don't really get how the PS4 not having those features does make you want to buy it, instead. Why buy either? I already have two boxes under my TV that let me play video games and watch Arrested Development whenever I want.

    Seriously, is there another compelling argument one way or the other that I'm not aware of? Or am I just way outside the norm in my never-reselling, only-very-rarely-buying-used, internet-connection-having, knowing-how-to-drape-a-tshirt-or-something-over-a-camera lifestyle?

    FULL DISCLOSURE: I AM A FULL-TIME EMPLOYEE OF MICROSOFT CORPORATION. ANY OPINIONS EXPRESSED HEREIN ARE MY OWN, AND NOT THOSE OF MICROSOFT CORPORATION OR ITS SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES. I WAS NOT DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THE DEVELOPMENT, MARKETING, PUBLICATION, OR DISTRIBUTION OF THE PRODUCT OR PRODUCTS IN QUESTION. I'M NOT REALLY A PLANT, SINCE I DON'T GET PAID TO SAY ANYTHING ONE WAY OR THE OTHER ABOUT ANY OF THIS. WELL, I GUESS YOU COULD ASSUME I AM A PLANT, BUT I'M TRYING TO PULL SOME KIND OF DOUBLE-REVERSE PSYCH-OUT OR SOMETHING, I DON'T KNOW. I ALSO PROBABLY KNOW LESS ABOUT THE THING THAN YOU DO ANYWAY, SINCE I WORK A LOT AND DON'T REALLY HAVE TIME TO KEEP UP WITH THIS STUFF. I'M PRETTY MUCH JUST GOING OFF WHAT I'VE READ ON THE INTERTRONS OR WHATEVER. ANY LIKENESS TO ANY PERSONS OR EVENTS, LIVING OR DEAD, ARE COINCIDENTAL. THIS DISCLAIMER NOT TO BE REMOVED UNDER PENALTY OF LAW EXCEPT BY THE END CONSUMER. THIS TELECAST IS COPYRIGHTED BY THE NFL FOR THE PRIVATE USE OF OUR AUDIENCE. ANY OTHER USE OF THIS TELECAST, OR OF ANY PICTURES, DESCRIPTIONS, OR ACCOUNTS OF THE GAME WITHOUT THE NFL'S CONSENT IS PROHIBITED.

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  • BolerBoler Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    The price bit is just the bow on the entire package, though to be honest I feel the biggest driving factor behind Sony's success right now is just that Microsoft did so terrible with everything at E3 that all PS4 had to do was say "we're not doing that" and it would have gone over similarly.

    To be fair I feel like Microsoft took concepts that could have moved the industry away from the used game issues that plague developer funds, and implemented in a terrible, extremely anti consumer fashion. DRM isn't in my honest opinion as big of a focus on pirates and controlling consumers as it is trying to make it so more money from game sales actually goes to the developers.

    There is also the fact that the PS4 is supposed to be stronger in terms of just hardware (though I know absolutely nothing about the SDKs and how far that claim will actually stretch); the biggest reason for the Xbox One's price is that they are trying to shoehorn the Kinect as a mandatory feature, which to actual games is about as immersive to use for a controller as a dried brick.

    There are a good number of other things Sony did well but I don't want to cough a fit of TL;DR, so in summary the PS4 was received so well because of just how bad the Xbox was received, even if the PS4 itself had some interesting stuff.

    It boils down to Microsoft doing a terrible PR job and Sony capitalizing on it with what is basically a thinly veiled (if appropriate) slander campaign.

    Boler on
  • fightinfilipinofightinfilipino Angry as Hell #BLMRegistered User regular
    Framling wrote: »
    There's the used games thing, but I don't sell my games and I very rarely buy used. There's the required internet connection thing, but I already have always-on internet access, and have for like... twelve years. There's the Kinect thing, but I know how to cover up a thing, or plug something into a power strip if I'm feeling paranoid. And the price difference, amortized over six or seven years, comes out to about a buck and a quarter, maybe a buck thirty-five per month. (To be fair, I'll probably also get some kind of discount on the thing when I buy it, because I work here.)

    have you played any of EA's or Ubisoft's recent games that have required a working internet connection? ever encounter problems where either EA's or Ubi's servers were down/over capacity? ever experience general internet connectivity problems (DNSes are down, parts of the backbone randomly offline, that sort of thing)? The experience with EA's Origin alone has been pretty bad.

    now consider that Microsoft is asking people to drop $500 on a system that, based on the above, isn't even guaranteed to work as it should. anyone who has an Xbone is at the mercy of a few points of failure.

    add on to that the implicit ignoring of possible customers who are in the armed forces abroad, in more rural areas where internet isn't so connected, etc. it's kind of a "fuck you" to those consumers.

    for you, it sounds like the One will be an ok experience, assuming everything works as it should. for the general populace, it's almost like Microsoft is willingly putting its head in the sand. it's really similar to the corporate-think on Windows 8's touch interface and removing the Start button: it's a feature only Microsoft thinks everyone wants, but in reality no one wants it.

    ffNewSig.png
    steam | Dokkan: 868846562
  • alternatoralternator Registered User regular
    SkeleVader wrote: »
    The entirety vast majority of the console gaming culture has shown a knee jerk reaction.

    I would much rather put up with 24 hour checkins and be able to freely use my licensed games on any Xbone (along with up to 10 family members) than have to cling to a disc based game.

    But, will you be able to "freely" use your licensed games on any Xbone and also allow up to 10 family members to as well?

    It does appear that physical media is becoming less and less critical, eventually it probably will simply all be digital downloads... But it seems to me MS is jumping the gun here, and most importantly why would we want to sign up to their version of how this should work?

    I recall back when Steam debuted it was loathed too, so perhaps there is hope for MS. But the problem is that they don't seem to have any value proposition, in fact they have the opposite.

    They have plenty of negative aspects for the gamer in how they want it to work, have they actually listed a benefit in this deal they're trying to sell gamers (a real benefit that wont be on offer from the other more permissive platforms)?

  • Reciprocity11aReciprocity11a Registered User regular
    Framling wrote: »
    I just don't really get how the PS4 not having those features does make you want to buy it, instead. [/size]

    Just an attempt to understand your viewpoint a bit here, but what makes you think that PS4 cannot do any of those things? 99% of what the Xbone has come out saying it was capable of, PS has been doing for the last 4 or 5 years. Social Media tie ins; yep. The PS4 actually takes it a step further and has a button on the controller to share. Not sure how that's going to work out, but it's there. Netflix? yep. And you don't have to pay for Live Gold in order to use it. Watch Television? Wait, isn't that why I have a TV in the first place? Is there something I don't understand with that? Used games? I love Gamefly, Redbox and even my local video store for renting games that I'm just not sure about. I can't tell you how many times I breathed a sigh of relief because I spent $1.50 at Redbox and got a game that was complete garbage, instead of spending $60 on it. I also have a long list of games that I got from Gamefly, where I went and bought the sequel brand new, because I enjoyed the game so much (Uncharted, Assassin's Creed etc). So yes, the DRM is a huge deal to me. The $100 price difference, to me, is a gimmick. You still have to pay close to $100 for 2 years of Playstation Plus if you want to play multiplayer, which the Xbone comes with 2 years of Gold.

  • demonfalldowndemonfalldown Registered User regular
    Framling wrote: »
    I just don't really get how the PS4 not having those features does make you want to buy it, instead. [/size]

    Just an attempt to understand your viewpoint a bit here, but what makes you think that PS4 cannot do any of those things? 99% of what the Xbone has come out saying it was capable of, PS has been doing for the last 4 or 5 years. Social Media tie ins; yep. The PS4 actually takes it a step further and has a button on the controller to share. Not sure how that's going to work out, but it's there. Netflix? yep. And you don't have to pay for Live Gold in order to use it. Watch Television? Wait, isn't that why I have a TV in the first place? Is there something I don't understand with that? Used games? I love Gamefly, Redbox and even my local video store for renting games that I'm just not sure about. I can't tell you how many times I breathed a sigh of relief because I spent $1.50 at Redbox and got a game that was complete garbage, instead of spending $60 on it. I also have a long list of games that I got from Gamefly, where I went and bought the sequel brand new, because I enjoyed the game so much (Uncharted, Assassin's Creed etc). So yes, the DRM is a huge deal to me. The $100 price difference, to me, is a gimmick. You still have to pay close to $100 for 2 years of Playstation Plus if you want to play multiplayer, which the Xbone comes with 2 years of Gold.

    Do you have a source for the Xbone coming with 2 years of Gold? It's the first I've heard of that and can't find it mentioned.

  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    I think the only people working for Microsoft that should be engaging the people about the consoles are those working in PR or marketing. Otherwise not saying a thing may be best, whether it be protecting yourself from your employer or from the communities you're a part of. No amount of pride for your employer is worth it and they're not going to notice anyway.

  • Monkey Ball WarriorMonkey Ball Warrior A collection of mediocre hats Seattle, WARegistered User regular
    edited June 2013
    These boxes are virtually identical. I don't think there's ever been two competing consoles that were so similar. The only substantive difference between them is the used game thing, and the price. That's why MS lost this round.

    Not that it really matters. Everything changes once the actual consoles are out and there's a library to compare. But for now, if we're talking about hypothetical consoles that people may or may not buy sometime in the indistinct future, its hard to see how Microsoft is going to convince anyone.

    Monkey Ball Warrior on
    "I resent the entire notion of a body as an ante and then raise you a generalized dissatisfaction with physicality itself" -- Tycho
  • Falcon4196Falcon4196 Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    The larger issue here isn't any policy involving physical media. Physical media will likely exist until this generation of gamers is dead and buried but it will ultimately take a back seat to the download market in the same way CDs have to itunes and others. So the most important issue that gamers will face in the next 5-10 years is digital ownership. At the end of the day what power do we have over the digital goods we buy. Do we even actually truly own them? Can we bequeath them to someone when we die? Can there and should there be a way for us to transfer them to another person.

    The time of the defacto all digital gamin environment is coming. Publishers want it, console makers want it (why else would there be day digital downloads on 3DS and PS3), the PC market is already there for all intents and purposes. Microsoft seems like they want to start addressing it but have unfortunately handled the situation with all the tact and grace of a drunken frat boy. You want people to accept always online and other incentives then at least have the common courtesy to incentivize it. Tie a carrot to end of that stick you've been beating over our heads. Reduce the price newly released games by $15-$20. You might be able to only to do it with the games you publish yourselves but it would hopefully put pressure on the rest of the industry. Try having deep discounts on older games once they're out of the new release window. Let us carry our digital library with us whereever we go. Imagine never having to worry about a lost or damaged game again. Steam has shown that you can cut prices while increasing revenues. The scary part of testing out the system has already been done. The task of recognizing the potential is up to you. Gamers can't be corralled or coerced into doing things the way you want them. Treat us as human beings and not just as wallets. Also please recognize that Kinect scares a lot of people, especially in the light of recent events, and deal with it accordingly.

    As for Sony, you took the easy way for now, sticking to the status quo. I understand why, the company as whole is on very unsure footing at the moment between whatever the heck is going on in Japan's economy at the moment and your own internal struggles. Now is not the time to take any big risks. The problem is planning on a future where everything stays the same has never worked. Change is inevitable. If you legitimately think your policies will be viable in the coming years, then fine, more power to you, but, if this is just some stop gap measure to pacify us for the next few years then you better remember the last few days. All the love and good will you built up can be lost with one bad policy choice, one mishandled situation.

    As for gamers we need to remember that these are corporations. Theonlyobligations they have are to their share holders and their boards of directors. They owe us nothing beyond the things we pay them for. So while you are heaping your love and money on Sony at the moment try to remember the past. Try to remember their handling of Geo Hotz and of the network hack. Remember the arrogance they showed during the PS3 launch. Remember them removing the 'other OS' feature a few years after the PS3's launch. Before you declare them the victors of the console war make sure they are true to the word. I can guarantee you that they wouldn't be so generous to you if Microsoft wan't around to compete with.

    Falcon4196 on
  • wormywyrmwormywyrm Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    These boxes are virtually identical. I don't think there's ever been two competing consoles that were so similar. The only substantive difference between them is the used game thing, and the price. That's why MS lost this round.

    Not that it really matters. Everything changes once the actual consoles are out and there's a library to compare. But for now, if we're talking about hypothetical consoles that people may or may not buy sometime in the indistinct future, its hard to see how Microsoft is going to convince anyone.

    This. I find the whole thing as interesting and funny as everyone here, but we are still far from launch. MS will modify before or shortly after launch as needed to accommodate the pushback from the community. Games will take front and center and for most users these details will be forgotten. MS next move or two will be crucial. They could subsidize the console to negate the extra costs of Kinect and also offer contract for 2 years of xbox live, allowing for an xbox+contract to cost less than the PS4. If they really believe the Kinect and HDMI in are worth it they will be willing to lose some money the first year of console sales. Otherwise they can disconnect the Kinect and sell it separately.

    They also could add an option of allowing players to play from disc OR install to their permanent library. As long as users do not install then they can resell the game. I think this is what they will end up doing. There is too much pressure on MS right now for them to not do something; they know this. But the chances of allowing play without at least weekly internet connection are crazy slim... Maybe an option to 'check in' via your phone would work?

    wormywyrm on
  • ArbitraryDescriptorArbitraryDescriptor Registered User regular
    Framling wrote: »
    There's the used games thing, but I don't sell my games and I very rarely buy used. There's the required internet connection thing, but I already have always-on internet access, and have for like... twelve years. There's the Kinect thing, but I know how to cover up a thing, or plug something into a power strip if I'm feeling paranoid. And the price difference, amortized over six or seven years, comes out to about a buck and a quarter, maybe a buck thirty-five per month. (To be fair, I'll probably also get some kind of discount on the thing when I buy it, because I work here.)

    have you played any of EA's or Ubisoft's recent games that have required a working internet connection? ever encounter problems where either EA's or Ubi's servers were down/over capacity? ever experience general internet connectivity problems (DNSes are down, parts of the backbone randomly offline, that sort of thing)? The experience with EA's Origin alone has been pretty bad.

    now consider that Microsoft is asking people to drop $500 on a system that, based on the above, isn't even guaranteed to work as it should. anyone who has an Xbone is at the mercy of a few points of failure.
    Am I wildly misinformed or are you exaggerating? My impression was that it's a quick handshake and you can go about your business for 24 hours.

    IE: Something every 360 plugged into the internet already manages to do without breaking the Live servers.


    I mean, that still sounds dumb, but not because Microsoft's servers aren't going to be able to handle it.

  • JortalusJortalus Registered User regular
    Framling wrote: »
    There's the used games thing, but I don't sell my games and I very rarely buy used. There's the required internet connection thing, but I already have always-on internet access, and have for like... twelve years. There's the Kinect thing, but I know how to cover up a thing, or plug something into a power strip if I'm feeling paranoid. And the price difference, amortized over six or seven years, comes out to about a buck and a quarter, maybe a buck thirty-five per month. (To be fair, I'll probably also get some kind of discount on the thing when I buy it, because I work here.)

    have you played any of EA's or Ubisoft's recent games that have required a working internet connection? ever encounter problems where either EA's or Ubi's servers were down/over capacity? ever experience general internet connectivity problems (DNSes are down, parts of the backbone randomly offline, that sort of thing)? The experience with EA's Origin alone has been pretty bad.

    now consider that Microsoft is asking people to drop $500 on a system that, based on the above, isn't even guaranteed to work as it should. anyone who has an Xbone is at the mercy of a few points of failure.
    Am I wildly misinformed or are you exaggerating? My impression was that it's a quick handshake and you can go about your business for 24 hours.

    IE: Something every 360 plugged into the internet already manages to do without breaking the Live servers.


    I mean, that still sounds dumb, but not because Microsoft's servers aren't going to be able to handle it.

    Think of it more like this: If/when the servers break for a day or two (it can happen easily to anybody), nobody will be able to play their games. If there's ever a bug with the authentication system, your console will be rendered inert. It's nice to think that these problems won't ever come up, but if/when they do, you're going to wish your console was something more than an expensive paperweight without an internet connection. Nobody is insinuating that Microsoft's servers can't handle the load; the issue is that the servers may fail for any other reason. Any failure that lasts over 24 hours is going to completely remove every person's ability to use their console. Not just the multiplayer gamers, not just the Xbox Live Gold members...everybody. Remember when the Playstation Network was down for a month? It was a fiasco, but at least I could still play my games offline. If the same thing were to happen to Microsoft, the Xbox One would be useless for a month.

    I'd rather buy a PS4 than have to deal with that...Not to mention the price point, better games, better controller, better used game philosophy, etc. would have drawn me to PS4 anyway. Whenever I say "better," I am of course referencing my own opinion, but Microsoft has thus far done nothing to earn my attention.

  • HelicaonHelicaon Registered User regular
    and DRM sneaks in by the back door too, I recently started replaying ME3, after finally giving in and getting the last DLC, as it seemed like a fun thing to do... I've got an always-on, cable connection, unfortunately, this coincided with a month or so of "maintenance" in my area, which meant every couple of days I'd get interruptions, varying from a few minutes to several hours... No problem! I thought, I, being a person who likes useless Things, have got a boxed version of the game with lots of goodies I'll never look at again in said box, it's been installed and verified and I can play offline, and indeed I can - but not the DLC, which although I've paid for, downloaded, installed, had them checked etc, requires to be verified EVERY TIME I start the game, so I can't load any saves which have ANY DLC installed - even the free ones.... So forgive me for being sceptical about any system which takes as its premise that that "surely EVERYBODY is connected to the interwebs now" Murphy's Law is just too powerful for such optimism...

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