[WOW] Mists of Pandaria: Patch 5.4 Free epics ! By the way, we have a new Warchief.

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  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    I once did a LFD where one of the people kept having to randomly afk to go wait tables :)

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  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Best Maly drake strat: 1123 repeat until malygos is dead. And move out of the poo, obv.

    Heroic Horridon is a huge assface. I'm not sure we have anywhere near enough DPS to do 4th door clean, shit is a disaster.

    Also got loot on my Jin'rokh bonus roll a 2nd week in a row, and got the same fucking ring again. No, why would you ever give me a trinket in the jillion times I've killed you, boss. That would be absurd. Roll on jin'rokh and council every week and we've only ever got 1 renataki's and 1 bad juju combined. It's crap :/

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  • TenekTenek Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Best Maly drake strat: 1123 repeat until malygos is dead. And move out of the poo, obv.

    Heroic Horridon is a huge assface. I'm not sure we have anywhere near enough DPS to do 4th door clean, shit is a disaster.

    Also got loot on my Jin'rokh bonus roll a 2nd week in a row, and got the same fucking ring again. No, why would you ever give me a trinket in the jillion times I've killed you, boss. That would be absurd. Roll on jin'rokh and council every week and we've only ever got 1 renataki's and 1 bad juju combined. It's crap :/

    Well what did you expect to happen when you pressed the Disappointment button?

    forty
  • BlendtecBlendtec PittsburghRegistered User regular
    Preacher has a good point though, it's too easy to be awful, coast through LFR, say you've "seen everything the game has to offer" and be done with it. Then we get stuff like the current legendary quest, and let's be honest, that's Blizzard trying to keep people subbed and playing for longer, nothing more. But the LFR player Preacher is talking about won't ever even attempt that quest or care about it. So what we have is awful grindtastic content designed to snare people in, but all it does is make people who probably would've stayed subbed anyways angry. The problem isn't the ultra hardcore wanting more difficult content and hurting the rest of the game, it's the average player getting screwed over by design decisions that are made for the people Preacher is pretending to be.

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    forty
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    Knight_ wrote: »
    Best Maly drake strat: 1123 repeat until malygos is dead. And move out of the poo, obv.

    Heroic Horridon is a huge assface. I'm not sure we have anywhere near enough DPS to do 4th door clean, shit is a disaster.

    Also got loot on my Jin'rokh bonus roll a 2nd week in a row, and got the same fucking ring again. No, why would you ever give me a trinket in the jillion times I've killed you, boss. That would be absurd. Roll on jin'rokh and council every week and we've only ever got 1 renataki's and 1 bad juju combined. It's crap :/

    This is what I do on Maly. It just takes forever.

    Also I have been rolling every week on Council and gotten gold EVERY FUCKING WEEK.

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  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    Fairchild wrote: »
    Speaking of Shadow Priests, Holy Moley, those guys whoop some arse. They have no weaknesses.

    Wish I could figure out how to get my numbers to go up as one, since even when I get gear upgrades, I've been hovering around 65k-70k deeps for ages. Even when I'm il503.

    PMAvers on
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  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    No. I'm trying to figure out how to explain this. Essentially, he tried to be the worst player in a given group by doing little or no DPS and having the most damage taken, outside of the tanks. When he was done, he had full 5pc T15 and all epics (i484).

    The two takeaways are this: 1) no one in any run tried to kick him until he tried /follow on another Rogue. Also, no one said a single thing to him in any raid or instance regarding that he was doing poorly, or how he could do better. For example, no other person pointed out he wasn't using poisons at all; or that he was only spamming Rupture in ToT.

    2) Due to the way content access is currently configured, there is no incentive to "do better" in order to see all of the game. For a newer player, they just killed the last boss in the game in this patch (and to them, LFR *is* raiding), and they have very little incentive to keep subscribed until the next patch. There are also NO in-game mechanics or methods for a new player to learn their class better, or to improve their gameplay.

  • Mild ConfusionMild Confusion Smash All Things Registered User regular
    This is why I'm looking forward to flex raids. LFR is a cancer imo.

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    Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    There are also NO in-game mechanics or methods for a new player to learn their class better, or to improve their gameplay.

    That's a load of nonsense. WOW is full of nothing but incentives to improve and play better; that's what talent trees and gaining new abilities while leveling is all about. The Monk class questline does nothing else except teach the class' skills and techniques. If you've started a new toon since CATACLYSM you'll find that every starter zone is loaded with quests that do the same, altho not to the same degree. After that it's up to the player. If you want to get better, you will. If you don't and happen to stumble upon a LFR Raid that is willing to carry you along, then Yay ?

    Fairchild on
  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    @blendtec pretty much said what I was trying to say.

    Also I disagree with you. The starter zones show you that you have abilities that are worth pushing buttons. There is nothing that, for example, shows how vital SnD and poisons are for rogue DPS.

  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    Do you have the WOW tooltips turned on that explains the purpose of each skill ? Have you clicked on the Specialization tabs in the Talent menu that point out what the best skills are ? WOW does not skimp on offering information to the player and teaching new concepts.

    If you're waiting for the game to launch a series of quests that teach the optimal attack rotation for every variant of every class, you're going to be waiting for a very long time.

    Fairchild on
  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    Mugsley wrote: »
    @blendtec pretty much said what I was trying to say.

    Also I disagree with you. The starter zones show you that you have abilities that are worth pushing buttons. There is nothing that, for example, shows how vital SnD and poisons are for rogue DPS.

    Doesn't the spell book have important class abilities listed for each spec? I know for combat rogues there's definitely stuff like 'Slice and Dice, keep this up always' 'Eviscerate, use this as your CP finisher' etc

    EDIT: The rest is just player observation. They're giving the player enough information to know which tools are at their disposal, and letting the player goof around with them until they find out what works for them.

    Javen on
  • BlendtecBlendtec PittsburghRegistered User regular
    Fairchild wrote: »
    Do you have the WOW tooltips turned on that explains the purpose of each skill ? Have you clicked on the Specialization tabs in the Talent menu that point out what the best skills are ? WOW does not skimp on offering information to the player and teaching new concepts.

    Even with those things I still see lots of people as bad, if not worse than what Preacher was showing in the video. Obviously we all know, or at least have a good idea, of how to play the game and how mechanics work, etc. Lots of people don't though and just get by doing the bare minimum. If you see someone struggling in a group, do you talk to them, kick them, or just deal with it? If you talk to them, whose to say they aren't just trolling? If you kick them, there's no guarantee you won't get someone even worse, so most of the time you just let it ride and try to get through what you're doing. More often than not if I try to give pointers I get told to shut up and let people play how they want, or if I go for the kick I'd better hope it works, because if it doesn't or if the other group members are a person's friend, there's a chance I'm gone instead.

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  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Not to mention the fact that getting kicked doesn't penalize you; while leaving a bad group does.

    Panda4Youforty
  • FairchildFairchild Rabbit used short words that were easy to understand, like "Hello Pooh, how about Lunch ?" Registered User regular
    Have y'all read today's PA comic and accompanying commentary ? "Oh man, these humans! I can’t get enough, they’re great."

    That's pretty much it. Some nites you get the group full of perfectionists who have every post on Elitist Jerks memorized, some nites you get the group full of people who keep missing the tornado jumps in Vortex Pinnacle. And that's when you stop wondering why GW2 and STAR WARS are so focused on single-player content.

    Blendtec
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    Hopefully Proving Grounds will teach people to play better. I don't mind people who are not "zomg amazing", but people who don't seem to know WTF they are doing piss me off. Like tanks that don't seem to know where the taunt button is :P I know my gear is way better than yours, but that's why you taunt. Taunt is the great equalizer!

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  • AegisAegis Not Quite TorontoRegistered User regular
    I'll settle for tanks in LFR on Maegara not spraying the raid after a half dozen or more lines in instance chat to the effect of "PLEASE STOP SPRAYING THE RAID"

    We'll see how long this blog lasts
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  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    Couple of things:

    1. "There's no incentive for someone to be a better player". No, and there never was. At least not one provided by the game proper. Incentive is a personal thing; the people who roll a monk and then spend 80% of their time spamming Spinning Crane Kick aren't doing so because, gosh darn it, they just don't know any better. They're doing so because that's exactly how much they give a shit. They're not there to 'be a better Monk'. They're playing the game, their way. All of us in this thread and many of the people on the forums, we're not those people. We read DPS/healing/tanking strats, look up ideal rotations and stat priorities and agonize over a once-powerful ability getting nerfed 50% because the Blizzard devs oftentimes forget the word 'finesse' when it comes to balance. None of those concerns - NONE of them, ever enter into the minds of a very significant portion of the playerbase. I don't know that it's most or even half the number of players, but a very large number of people simply don't care to do better. LFR simply facilitates that, it is not the cause of it, nor will LFRs removal (not that it will ever happen) eliminate it.

    One thing GC said about this that was spot on, when someone said "What do you have to say about the fact that, ever since LFRs implementation, normal raiding has dropped like a rock? Normal raiders can't recruit anymore because people are content with LFR". GC replied, "Normal raiders only ever recruited normal raiders. Most of the people you find in LFR are people who would never have raided anyway". And he's absolutely correct about that.

    The irony of the inclusion of a cool feature like the Personal Trial Class Training thing (can't for the life of me remember the actual name for this) is that it won't actually be used by its intended audience; people like us are more interested in it than the majority of the aforementioned players.

    2. Much has been made recently about how "hard" WoW (and MMOs in general) should be. There's a very "these are my toys and you can't have them" kind of attitude from some of the MMO players, and indeed even some of the developers and it's frankly a little sad. They seem to cling to the "glory days" when MMOs were exclusively for people who had a few dozen hours a week to devote to a game, and while that was the reality, the fact of the matter is that it's no longer the case. WoW ushered in a new age of accessibility to the market and with it came previously unreachable sales goals. That genie ain't ever going back in the bottle. There are always going to be players who prefer the more difficult content but they're not nearly large enough in number to sustain a AAA MMO, that's been proven. So when I read "LFR just needs to be removed, make raiding harder and you'll regain so many lost subs!" I just shake my head. It's so far from the truth that it's laughable, really.

    forty
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    Aegis wrote: »
    I'll settle for tanks in LFR on Maegara not spraying the raid after a half dozen or more lines in instance chat to the effect of "PLEASE STOP SPRAYING THE RAID"

    Yeah that too. I had a really, really bad tank last week that annoyed me. At one point I pulled aggro off him (he was in mostly blues in ToT - don't even know how that happens), vanished, and STILL had aggro.

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  • MugsleyMugsley Registered User regular
    Whatever. I give up. People suck.

  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    Halfmex wrote: »
    The irony of the inclusion of a cool feature like the Personal Trial Class Training thing (can't for the life of me remember the actual name for this) is that it won't actually be used by its intended audience; people like us are more interested in it than the majority of the aforementioned players.

    Proving Grounds. And what you do is put cool rewards behind it to encourage use. Like, what if getting X good score in it gave you a permanent buff in scenarios/dungeons/LFRs? (not normal/heroic raids obviously). Or even just some neat transmog gear or a title or mount or something? Hell, put a mount behind the thing and you'll have everyone doing it.

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  • JavenJaven Registered User regular
    I feel like Proving Grounds would have been far more useful, six or seven years ago. But yeah, fledgling players won't use it nearly as much as vets

    Halfmexforty
  • SaraLunaSaraLuna Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    SaraLuna on
  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    Halfmex wrote: »
    The irony of the inclusion of a cool feature like the Personal Trial Class Training thing (can't for the life of me remember the actual name for this) is that it won't actually be used by its intended audience; people like us are more interested in it than the majority of the aforementioned players.

    Proving Grounds. And what you do is put cool rewards behind it to encourage use. Like, what if getting X good score in it gave you a permanent buff in scenarios/dungeons/LFRs? (not normal/heroic raids obviously). Or even just some neat transmog gear or a title or mount or something? Hell, put a mount behind the thing and you'll have everyone doing it.

    That's it, yeah. Hate when I blank out on stuff like that.

    Incentivizing it may work, but again, I just don't see it being a draw for the majority of lots of people. I mean, look at what's in-game today:

    1. Simpler tooltips that tell you what each button does without any 'scary numbers'.
    2. In the spellbook you get a simple rotation guide telling you exactly what buttons to push (and what not to push) and when.
    3. Many old mechanics are being removed in favor of simpler gameplay (eg. 'stance dancing', poisons as items, soul shards, etc).

    All of these things introduced, mostly within the past three years, and yet we still see these same people. It's not that they don't know how to be better (largely; I'm sure some are just ignorant), they just don't care to be. And that's why, before LFR, they never raided.

    The only difference between today and Vanilla in this respect? LFR shines a spotlight on those people.

    forty
  • PMAversPMAvers Registered User regular
    Wonder if they could make actually completing the Proving Grounds at a certain difficulty required for queueing for specific roles in the next expansion. Like, you have to complete the Silver Healing one before you can queue for LFR.

    Like the Gatekeeper in TSW, except not a giant golden naked man destroying your hopes and dreams.

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  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    PMAvers wrote: »
    Wonder if they could make actually completing the Proving Grounds at a certain difficulty required for queueing for specific roles in the next expansion. Like, you have to complete the Silver Healing one before you can queue for LFR.

    Like the Gatekeeper in TSW, except not a giant golden naked man destroying your hopes and dreams.

    I think that's too harsh personally. I would just piss off people who play more casually (i.e. "I don't have time for this shit"). Incentives that are highly desirable (i.e. mounts) would probably be the smartest way to encourage use.

    Also, I would totally buy a permanent 100% xp buff. As long as they didn't make it too expensive.

    Warlock82 on
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  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    Whatever. I give up. People suck.

    Nah Mugs, don't let it get you down. Unless you solely run LFR, you aren't really ever compelled to interact with this people so it's a non-issue. It really will only become an issue if they start nerfing Heroic modes and such down to those levels to placate those folks. I say this as someone who is relegated to only running LFR this expansion.

  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    edited July 2013
    Wow, Rogue Tier 16 looks like complete shit. Why am I not surprised? But seriously, wtf is that supposed to be? Some kind of Robot Knight?

    Warlock82 on
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  • BlendtecBlendtec PittsburghRegistered User regular

    I'm fine with this as long as you can only purchase it if you already have a max level character.

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  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    Blendtec wrote: »

    I'm fine with this as long as you can only purchase it if you already have a max level character.

    Doubtful. It looks like they're finally dipping their toes into the 'in game advantage' Cash Shops that games like RIFT and SWTOR utilize.

    Panda4You
  • AdvocateAdvocate Registered User regular
    Just read this comic, figured you guys would like it. Spoilered since it's really long.
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  • MonstyMonsty Registered User regular
    As long as they don't add top-tier gear for cash, I'm not concerned.

    But damn it, I could have used that XP buff before now. I sort of... have 9 90s, an 85(more on other servers but meh), and a slightly lower guy on the rise. *Cough*

    I like to dabble.

  • HalfmexHalfmex I mock your value system You also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered User regular
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    Wow, Rogue Tier 16 looks like complete shit. Why am I not surprised? But seriously, wtf is that supposed to be? Some kind of Robot Knight?

    Honestly I hate it less than, say, Tier 13, but it's pretty uninspired. The helm is the most off-putting part of it. The bladeshoulders thing was done better in previous tiers, most notably T5.

  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    Halfmex wrote: »
    Warlock82 wrote: »
    Wow, Rogue Tier 16 looks like complete shit. Why am I not surprised? But seriously, wtf is that supposed to be? Some kind of Robot Knight?

    Honestly I hate it less than, say, Tier 13, but it's pretty uninspired. The helm is the most off-putting part of it. The bladeshoulders thing was done better in previous tiers, most notably T5.

    Nothing about it says "Rogue" to me at all, other than *maybe* the shoulders which are pretty boring. The Knight helm-visor thing is the worst part though, yeah. I don't get that at all.

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  • NobodyNobody Registered User regular
    Mugsley wrote: »
    Not to mention the fact that getting kicked doesn't penalize you; while leaving a bad group does.

    To be fair, kicking someone does penalize the kicker. If I'm in an LFR, and we wipe on a boss, then I'll look at the reasons why we wiped. Was it due to low dps by one guy? Was it due to the tank pointing something into the raid? Was it due to that priest sitting in the corner spamming renew on himself? I will then expend the (oh, let's call it goodwill) to votekick the reason for the failure.

    The big problem comes in when a LFR is stale...as ToT is pretty much at this point. You have quite a few raiders going through there who may just need a couple of offset pieces, missed a raid night and need to get legendary questline items, or just want to cap VP and want to avoid dailies. In those cases, a couple of really strong healers or DPS in normal (or even heroic gear) easily make up for the shortcomings of people who really should be doing better. At this point the only wipes I see anymore are Durumu, Dark Animus, and Lei Shen.

    If I vote kicked everybody who died on Durumu, my timer would permamently be at 4 hours (and that's assuming that at least 4 other people agreed with my assessment and also vote kicked each and every person).

    Dark Animus is usually a wipe in the first 15 seconds or so....or it's successful. I will vote kick people who deliberately try to screw us on DA (aoeing the wave 1 guys), but again, it's getting 4 other people to agree.

    And Lei Shen....well, check my reasoning on Durumu, and then add in that there aren't that many people willing to tank an LFR, and stick around on Lei Shen when they need Iron Quon and Consorts too.

    forty
  • Knight_Knight_ Dead Dead Dead Registered User regular
    Advocate wrote: »
    Just read this comic, figured you guys would like it. Spoilered since it's really long.

    This is my favorite thing ever. Cannot wait to show it to our healers, A+.

    aeNqQM9.jpg
  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    The whole kicking system annoys me. I shouldn't be penalized for kicking offline people, or people who refuse to zone in, or people who have been standing at the entrance of the instance for the last 15 minutes....

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    forty
  • CaedwyrCaedwyr Registered User regular
    I still remember when the cross-battlegroup LFD system went into the game. While it made it a lot easier to find groups, it also destroyed any sense of server community that existed outside of the raiding scene and largely removed any penalty for anti-social behaviour or incentives for not treating your group members like a bunch of bots who you will never see again. LFR has done the same to raiding for much of the game's population. While the convenience of LFD/LFR is nice, it seems like there has to be a better way of implementing the systems that isn't so community destroying.

  • ZythonZython Registered User regular
    So in keeping with the threads title, the legendary cloaks have been revealed (the items themselves, not just the procs), and it looks like there's no cross-over between them (healer proc on the chi-ji cloak, spell proc on the yu'lon cloak, etc). I, for one, cannot wait to drop 7k gold on a sub-optimal cloak just so that I can get my spec's proc.

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  • Warlock82Warlock82 Never pet a burning dog Registered User regular
    I'm disappointed they don't have a Sha gem slot on them :(

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    Smrtnik
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