Since it looks like we have sufficient interest in Elite, should we go ahead an make a Steam group for the game? Assuming that guild functionality won't be implemented into the game any time soon that is.
So any recomendations for a joystick for the upcoming Elite, preferably one that doesnt make my wallet cry to much?
Best cheap option: Logitech Extreme 3D
Best mid-range: Saitek X52 or X55 - The X55 is the shiny new model but it's built around the Warthog style of controls. The X52 is older, but cheaper, and in a lot of ways better suited for a space game due to having some sneaky control layouts that allow you to control your 6DOF directions a lot better. If you take the ten minutes and couple bucks needed to mod the X52's tension and sensors (both mods are super simple) you'll end up with a really damn good stick for a pretty reasonable price.
Best I'M RICH BIATCH option: Thrustmaster or CS - I'd go with the CS because it's patterned after the F-16's controls, but that's just me. You can't go wrong with either option.
I'd also put forward the Thrustmaster t16000 as a cheap option. It's seemed pretty solid to me so far and has a reversible grip so you can easily switch between lefty and righty depending on what you want to do with the stick.
I'd also put forward the Thrustmaster t16000 as a cheap option. It's seemed pretty solid to me so far and has a reversible grip so you can easily switch between lefty and righty depending on what you want to do with the stick.
I was able to get one of those 3d extreme pros from Tigerdirect.ca for 19.99 at one point. they seem to go on sale often. I am looking at moving to something nicer as well but that can wait for when SC is further down that development path.
The only other thing I play with it is warthunder, although once the price bracket drops down for elite I might grab that too. Thanks for the heads up on that whoever it was.
Saying my opinions are "demonstrably wrong" and insinuating I have no clue about design are pointlessly rude. I have a bachelor of industrial design and I cruise around conceptships.blogspot.com.au every second day, it's pretty insulting. You can say you strongly disagree, and on the flipside I can also say that some designs are good, hence my "I'll keep watching". "Demonstrably wrong" and "no clue about design" never have to come into it.
My criticisms are the interactions between the forms of the ships (one surface and another), and the simplicity of the forms. The pentagonal ship doesn't strike me as a good looking ship, the Anaconda does. The designs seem to be more plain than some of the other contemporary games coming out, that will be attractive to some people, and would do less for others.
If your opinion is that Elite Dangerous features poor design then I'm asserting that your opinion is demonstrably wrong. I'm not talking about opinions and I don't care about your appeals to authority or what website you go to for looking at spaceships. Simplicity isn't poor design and those ships totally make sense.
I guess the bit that's rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning is that you have approached the topic from a slightly dismissive position that puts fault at the feet of the developers when there is really no fault to be placed here. I challenged that and you passive aggressively suggest we fight. Personally I think that's rude. But whatever it's what we do on the internet right?
I think a lot of the attraction to the Cobra and Adder (the pentagonish ships) is nostalgia. The ships have had pretty much the same shape since the first game, so they're pretty iconic. While compared to more modern ship design they're basic bordering on dull, I think they've done a good job of fleshing out the detail on them for an updated look, while still keeping the iconic shape.
As somebody who played the original Elite when it came out, this is exactly why the Cobra looks the way it does. Go back a few pages and look at my post that showed gameplay for the first game on the C64. Those simple polygons were the best that could be done at the time. People who are heavily invested in Elite are going to get nostalgia when they see those iconic ships, so that's what the developers are going for. They're throwing bells, whistles and gew-gaws on the simple polygonal structure, but they feel they need to keep the silhouettes accurate.
I personally don't think they look all that great, but the developers would be crazy to not throw in some fan service to people who have loved the series for thirty years.
+4
The Black HunterThe key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple,unimpeachable reason to existRegistered Userregular
If your opinion is that Elite Dangerous features poor design then I'm asserting that your opinion is demonstrably wrong. I'm not talking about opinions and I don't care about your appeals to authority or what website you go to for looking at spaceships. Simplicity isn't poor design and those ships totally make sense.
I guess the bit that's rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning is that you have approached the topic from a slightly dismissive position that puts fault at the feet of the developers when there is really no fault to be placed here. I challenged that and you passive aggressively suggest we fight. Personally I think that's rude. But whatever it's what we do on the internet right?
If you took me suggesting we fight seriously, you shouldn't have, that was absolutely a joke. It was a cheeky way of acknowledging that our positions are different and can stay that way. There wouldn't have been any point to arguing further. The sarcasm in that line was not subtle.
Also, "putting fault at the feet of the developers"? I'm not showing them some terrible thing they've done and shouting "you did this!". I'm not a fan of their design, that's all.
So any recomendations for a joystick for the upcoming Elite, preferably one that doesnt make my wallet cry to much?
As a previous Saitek X-52 owner, spring for at least the X-55 PRO or don't bother with a HOTAS at all.
The base models are toys made of really cheap toy plastic.
The pro models have something more in keeping with the fit & finish one would expect of a premium product.
My X-52 went to goodwill without a backward glance - total piece of junk, especially considering the pricetag. Extremely disappointing.
Edit: Actually, on reviewing the facts about the X-55 Pro, maybe avoid Saitek entirely...
Sokpuppet on
0
The Black HunterThe key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple,unimpeachable reason to existRegistered Userregular
I was thinking about the X-52, it can't have been that bad surely
What alternatives are there in the same pricerange
I was thinking about the X-52, it can't have been that bad surely
What alternatives are there in the same pricerange
I'm not sure what alternatives exist, but my expectations were pretty high and the reality was pretty low.
The controls are cast from the same sort of plastic as the eggs you might get from a little grocery-store toy vending machine.
The driver software was a buggy mess to match.
*shrug*
I've heard the vintage Thrustmasters could be pretty good?
Sokpuppet on
0
ShadowfireVermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered Userregular
I've never heard any of the complaints you're mentioning before. I have a kind of X36 (Saitek shell with Hori internals) that feels fantastic in the hands.
I have had my X-52 going on 10 years now, never had any issues with it.
Still love playing games with it.
Yeah, I never had any issues with mine and it's still going great after all these years. Doubly so once I made modded it a month ago to compensate for AC's pre-alpha wonkiness. I was going to get a higher end stick but my X52 is so good now that I don't really see a reason to bother. I really think it's the best bang for your buck out there, though I haven't tried the X55 so there is that.
If your opinion is that Elite Dangerous features poor design then I'm asserting that your opinion is demonstrably wrong. I'm not talking about opinions and I don't care about your appeals to authority or what website you go to for looking at spaceships. Simplicity isn't poor design and those ships totally make sense.
I guess the bit that's rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning is that you have approached the topic from a slightly dismissive position that puts fault at the feet of the developers when there is really no fault to be placed here. I challenged that and you passive aggressively suggest we fight. Personally I think that's rude. But whatever it's what we do on the internet right?
If you took me suggesting we fight seriously, you shouldn't have, that was absolutely a joke. It was a cheeky way of acknowledging that our positions are different and can stay that way. There wouldn't have been any point to arguing further. The sarcasm in that line was not subtle.
Also, "putting fault at the feet of the developers"? I'm not showing them some terrible thing they've done and shouting "you did this!". I'm not a fan of their design, that's all.
I picked up an X55 a couple of weeks ago. I knew I was taking a risk, but mine has been fine so far.
Now I just need something to use it with. X3:AP does not like it.
0
DrakeEdgelord TrashBelow the ecliptic plane.Registered Userregular
If your opinion is that Elite Dangerous features poor design then I'm asserting that your opinion is demonstrably wrong. I'm not talking about opinions and I don't care about your appeals to authority or what website you go to for looking at spaceships. Simplicity isn't poor design and those ships totally make sense.
I guess the bit that's rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning is that you have approached the topic from a slightly dismissive position that puts fault at the feet of the developers when there is really no fault to be placed here. I challenged that and you passive aggressively suggest we fight. Personally I think that's rude. But whatever it's what we do on the internet right?
If you took me suggesting we fight seriously, you shouldn't have, that was absolutely a joke. It was a cheeky way of acknowledging that our positions are different and can stay that way. There wouldn't have been any point to arguing further. The sarcasm in that line was not subtle.
Also, "putting fault at the feet of the developers"? I'm not showing them some terrible thing they've done and shouting "you did this!". I'm not a fan of their design, that's all.
When you say poor design then you are saying that something is fundamentally flawed to the point it doesn't function. It's not complex English. You should understand this. I'm seriously tired of this discussion so this is the last thing I've got to say about this. It's ok if you don't like something. Just say you don't like it. Saying stuff like "leaves a lot to be desired" and "poor design" is fightin' words in most circles. When you say that you are saying the developers are producing fundamentally flawed trash and that people who appreciate it are tasteless. If you are going to be critical of something then at least try to be accurate. I'm not even going to talk about sarcasm on the internet and subtlety.
IMO, it's not "poor design" so much as "legacy design". It's the limitations of the Micro and Acorn - super-low-poly ships, only two control axes, etc etc - enshrined and carried down to the present day.
Naturally, thirty years worth of Moore's Law later, people without an investment in the series and its TRADITION are going to look at that legacy content with a critical eye.
When you say poor design then you are saying that something is fundamentally flawed to the point it doesn't function.
To the point the fictional spaceships don't function if you try to fly them in the fictional game universe with made up physics rules the devs can change at will? Or like, are we evaluating if we can get to the moon if we build our own ships from these models?
Ninja Snarl PMy helmet is my burden.Ninja Snarl: Gone, but not forgotten.Registered Userregular
edited July 2014
Been studying up on Elite: Dangerous and I'm solidly unimpressed with the whole thing. I mean, the scale is good, or at least the intended scale is good. Stations and stuff also seem appropriately huge and impressive. The ship interfaces look effective and very nicely immersive. The quality on what is there looks good.
But the whole thing looks like nothing more than stuff I've already played before, albeit with much improved graphics. Planets I can't visit. Big stations I can't enter on foot. Ships which handle more like a ride than an actual object. Buy stuff here, sell it there. And the ship designs look just fine, but they're so... bland. Most of the stuff looks like some kind of UFO design, or like it's a block with features painted on and carved in. The damage model is also pretty basic; hammer away at something until the shields give, then shoot them until the hull HP is gone and they explode. And the combat is the old, dull type where you just fly in big loops and out-turning opponents is most of what you do to win. Overall, it looks just like stuff I was doing ten years ago or more.
That being said, I probably would still buy the thing if the beta buy-in was a reasonable price (75 bucks? Really?) and they weren't already pushing a DLC pass for another 50 bucks. Granted, the Star Citizen folks are a pretty significant outlier in terms of insane funding, but those are some pretty steep prices. And I know the folks at CIG are almost certainly going to have extra expansion content they will charge for as well, but they also already have the funding to know they'll be around for a long time for DLC to be an actual thing. Star Citizen isn't even in proper alpha state and you can get the full game and alpha/beta access for much cheaper; it's even cheaper than just buying the base game for Elite: Dangerous.
I wish I could be impressed, but the whole thing looks more like mod of an old game with new textures and lighting instead of a brand-new game. Would be fine with that, though, if the pricing wasn't also so out of line.
Been studying up on Elite: Dangerous and I'm solidly unimpressed with the whole thing. I mean, the scale is good, or at least the intended scale is good. Stations and stuff also seem appropriately huge and impressive. The ship interfaces look effective and very nicely immersive. The quality on what is there looks good.
But the whole thing looks like nothing more than stuff I've already played before, albeit with much improved graphics. Planets I can't visit. Big stations I can't enter on foot. Ships which handle more like a ride than an actual object. Buy stuff here, sell it there. And the ship designs look just fine, but they're so... bland. Most of the stuff looks like some kind of UFO design, or like it's a block with features painted on and carved in. The damage model is also pretty basic; hammer away at something until the shields give, then shoot them until the hull HP is gone and they explode. And the combat is the old, dull type where you just fly in big loops and out-turning opponents is most of what you do to win. Overall, it looks just like stuff I was doing ten years ago or more.
That being said, I probably would still buy the thing if the beta buy-in was a reasonable price (75 bucks? Really?) and they weren't already pushing a DLC pass for another 50 bucks. Granted, the Star Citizen folks are a pretty significant outlier in terms of insane funding, but those are some pretty steep prices. And I know the folks at CIG are almost certainly going to have extra expansion content they will charge for as well, but they also already have the funding to know they'll be around for a long time for DLC to be an actual thing. Star Citizen isn't even in proper alpha state and you can get the full game and alpha/beta access for much cheaper; it's even cheaper than just buying the base game for Elite: Dangerous.
I wish I could be impressed, but the whole thing looks more like mod of an old game with new textures and lighting instead of a brand-new game. Would be fine with that, though, if the pricing wasn't also so out of line.
Star Citizen is already more impressive IMO and it's in Pre-Alpha. Elite is supposed to be fully released by Christmas.
Been studying up on Elite: Dangerous and I'm solidly unimpressed with the whole thing. I mean, the scale is good, or at least the intended scale is good. Stations and stuff also seem appropriately huge and impressive. The ship interfaces look effective and very nicely immersive. The quality on what is there looks good.
But the whole thing looks like nothing more than stuff I've already played before, albeit with much improved graphics. Planets I can't visit. Big stations I can't enter on foot. Ships which handle more like a ride than an actual object. Buy stuff here, sell it there. And the ship designs look just fine, but they're so... bland. Most of the stuff looks like some kind of UFO design, or like it's a block with features painted on and carved in. The damage model is also pretty basic; hammer away at something until the shields give, then shoot them until the hull HP is gone and they explode. And the combat is the old, dull type where you just fly in big loops and out-turning opponents is most of what you do to win. Overall, it looks just like stuff I was doing ten years ago or more.
That being said, I probably would still buy the thing if the beta buy-in was a reasonable price (75 bucks? Really?) and they weren't already pushing a DLC pass for another 50 bucks. Granted, the Star Citizen folks are a pretty significant outlier in terms of insane funding, but those are some pretty steep prices. And I know the folks at CIG are almost certainly going to have extra expansion content they will charge for as well, but they also already have the funding to know they'll be around for a long time for DLC to be an actual thing. Star Citizen isn't even in proper alpha state and you can get the full game and alpha/beta access for much cheaper; it's even cheaper than just buying the base game for Elite: Dangerous.
I wish I could be impressed, but the whole thing looks more like mod of an old game with new textures and lighting instead of a brand-new game. Would be fine with that, though, if the pricing wasn't also so out of line.
Star Citizen is already more impressive IMO and it's in Pre-Alpha. Elite is supposed to be fully released by Christmas.
Well I think they are both very different perspectives on space sims.
What excites me about Elite is the go anywhere part - if you've looked into it you can see that it's truly open world (in a way Star Citizen is not); you can jump to any system in the known galaxy, and stop at any point within that star system.
It's a true sandbox with trading and fighting integrated in a smart fashion.
Star citizen is a hyper granular simulation of space dog fighting... it's easier to name stuff it doesn't simulate when talking space ships. It's also got exploration and trading, but you'll be zoning into discreet areas in a much noticeable fashion, due in part to how demanding the sim is.
The damage model is also pretty basic; hammer away at something until the shields give, then shoot them until the hull HP is gone and they explode. And the combat is the old, dull type where you just fly in big loops and out-turning opponents is most of what you do to win.
Do you mean the physical display of the damage model? Then yeah, Star Citizen wins that contest hands down. Elite is going to have visual damage models for the bigger ships, but they said it's pretty doubtful if they will have it for the smaller ones. If you are talking about damage models in terms of what you can actually do to ships, then you are pretty wrong - you can target subsystems in Elite and since the TTK is actually longer than Star Citizen's seconds doing so can actually provide you benefits. You can do things like target weapons, blow open cargo hatches for loot, or take out a pilot's life support to force him out of the fight before his ship is down, and some weapons are better at targeting subsystems then others. That's my current problem with Star Citizen: despite it's incredibly detailed damage model, TTK is so low that it's rather irrelevant and might as well be a die-roll for a graphical effect before your target blows up (I expect/hope this to change as the iterate on damage values and such in future patches).
Elite's 'turn fighting' also lends itself to longer TTK's, though saying it's just a turn-fighting simulator is the result of not using your other options in combat (reverse, lateral, horizontal thrust). I like both games, but its basically comparing that to Star Citizens space-turret gameplay (high turn rate, slow actual speeds), so I'm not sure which one I actually like better. Winning a dogfight feels like more of an accomplishment in Elite, though Star Citizen has this fun and silly Tokyo-drift thing going on.
Both games will hypothetically overlap in their final features, it is just that Elite is doing the base game first and adding planetary stuff, etc. as expansions, and Star Citizen is trying to do everything at once. I have the feeling that Elite will progress faster than Star Citizen because Star Citizen is probably going to run into issues where they can't release something in one module because they are waiting for a thing in another module to be finished, but who knows. I think that both final games will be very fun, but their tone will probably be different: Elite has this cold, brutal and lonely space thing going on, while Star Citizen is all flashy and 'realistic' unrealism.
And the combat is the old, dull type where you just fly in big loops and out-turning opponents is most of what you do to win. Overall, it looks just like stuff I was doing ten years ago or more.
You know, one of the things that really irritates me is how people believe that games with "Newtonian" physics somehow represent what space combat would be in a more realistic manner than games that have spacecraft behave as if they were airplanes in an atmosphere. You see one episode of BSG and everyone thinks they're an expert on how space combat would really work without even thinking it through.
Let me clear this up for you. Newtonian space combat as portrayed in any current or in production video game is about as far away from realistic as anything could be. If being some sort of space purist is holding you back from enjoying a space "sim" with a more "conventional" flight model, it shouldn't.
Posts
Best cheap option: Logitech Extreme 3D
Best mid-range: Saitek X52 or X55 - The X55 is the shiny new model but it's built around the Warthog style of controls. The X52 is older, but cheaper, and in a lot of ways better suited for a space game due to having some sneaky control layouts that allow you to control your 6DOF directions a lot better. If you take the ten minutes and couple bucks needed to mod the X52's tension and sensors (both mods are super simple) you'll end up with a really damn good stick for a pretty reasonable price.
Best I'M RICH BIATCH option: Thrustmaster or CS - I'd go with the CS because it's patterned after the F-16's controls, but that's just me. You can't go wrong with either option.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
The only other thing I play with it is warthunder, although once the price bracket drops down for elite I might grab that too. Thanks for the heads up on that whoever it was.
If your opinion is that Elite Dangerous features poor design then I'm asserting that your opinion is demonstrably wrong. I'm not talking about opinions and I don't care about your appeals to authority or what website you go to for looking at spaceships. Simplicity isn't poor design and those ships totally make sense.
I guess the bit that's rubbed me the wrong way from the beginning is that you have approached the topic from a slightly dismissive position that puts fault at the feet of the developers when there is really no fault to be placed here. I challenged that and you passive aggressively suggest we fight. Personally I think that's rude. But whatever it's what we do on the internet right?
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
As somebody who played the original Elite when it came out, this is exactly why the Cobra looks the way it does. Go back a few pages and look at my post that showed gameplay for the first game on the C64. Those simple polygons were the best that could be done at the time. People who are heavily invested in Elite are going to get nostalgia when they see those iconic ships, so that's what the developers are going for. They're throwing bells, whistles and gew-gaws on the simple polygonal structure, but they feel they need to keep the silhouettes accurate.
I personally don't think they look all that great, but the developers would be crazy to not throw in some fan service to people who have loved the series for thirty years.
If you took me suggesting we fight seriously, you shouldn't have, that was absolutely a joke. It was a cheeky way of acknowledging that our positions are different and can stay that way. There wouldn't have been any point to arguing further. The sarcasm in that line was not subtle.
Also, "putting fault at the feet of the developers"? I'm not showing them some terrible thing they've done and shouting "you did this!". I'm not a fan of their design, that's all.
Cheapest joystick with Hall Effect.
As a previous Saitek X-52 owner, spring for at least the X-55 PRO or don't bother with a HOTAS at all.
The base models are toys made of really cheap toy plastic.
The pro models have something more in keeping with the fit & finish one would expect of a premium product.
My X-52 went to goodwill without a backward glance - total piece of junk, especially considering the pricetag. Extremely disappointing.
Edit: Actually, on reviewing the facts about the X-55 Pro, maybe avoid Saitek entirely...
What alternatives are there in the same pricerange
Still love playing games with it.
Bravely Default / 3DS Friend Code = 3394-3571-1609
I'm not sure what alternatives exist, but my expectations were pretty high and the reality was pretty low.
The controls are cast from the same sort of plastic as the eggs you might get from a little grocery-store toy vending machine.
The driver software was a buggy mess to match.
*shrug*
I've heard the vintage Thrustmasters could be pretty good?
Yeah, I never had any issues with mine and it's still going great after all these years. Doubly so once I made modded it a month ago to compensate for AC's pre-alpha wonkiness. I was going to get a higher end stick but my X52 is so good now that I don't really see a reason to bother. I really think it's the best bang for your buck out there, though I haven't tried the X55 so there is that.
I think you borked the quote tree on that one.
Now I just need something to use it with. X3:AP does not like it.
When you say poor design then you are saying that something is fundamentally flawed to the point it doesn't function. It's not complex English. You should understand this. I'm seriously tired of this discussion so this is the last thing I've got to say about this. It's ok if you don't like something. Just say you don't like it. Saying stuff like "leaves a lot to be desired" and "poor design" is fightin' words in most circles. When you say that you are saying the developers are producing fundamentally flawed trash and that people who appreciate it are tasteless. If you are going to be critical of something then at least try to be accurate. I'm not even going to talk about sarcasm on the internet and subtlety.
OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
EDIT: And Geth agrees! ROBOT-OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Naturally, thirty years worth of Moore's Law later, people without an investment in the series and its TRADITION are going to look at that legacy content with a critical eye.
Steam, Warframe: Megajoule
To the point the fictional spaceships don't function if you try to fly them in the fictional game universe with made up physics rules the devs can change at will? Or like, are we evaluating if we can get to the moon if we build our own ships from these models?
what would I play
Do you like arcadey shooty shooty flying or more simmy techie sim sim flying?
But the whole thing looks like nothing more than stuff I've already played before, albeit with much improved graphics. Planets I can't visit. Big stations I can't enter on foot. Ships which handle more like a ride than an actual object. Buy stuff here, sell it there. And the ship designs look just fine, but they're so... bland. Most of the stuff looks like some kind of UFO design, or like it's a block with features painted on and carved in. The damage model is also pretty basic; hammer away at something until the shields give, then shoot them until the hull HP is gone and they explode. And the combat is the old, dull type where you just fly in big loops and out-turning opponents is most of what you do to win. Overall, it looks just like stuff I was doing ten years ago or more.
That being said, I probably would still buy the thing if the beta buy-in was a reasonable price (75 bucks? Really?) and they weren't already pushing a DLC pass for another 50 bucks. Granted, the Star Citizen folks are a pretty significant outlier in terms of insane funding, but those are some pretty steep prices. And I know the folks at CIG are almost certainly going to have extra expansion content they will charge for as well, but they also already have the funding to know they'll be around for a long time for DLC to be an actual thing. Star Citizen isn't even in proper alpha state and you can get the full game and alpha/beta access for much cheaper; it's even cheaper than just buying the base game for Elite: Dangerous.
I wish I could be impressed, but the whole thing looks more like mod of an old game with new textures and lighting instead of a brand-new game. Would be fine with that, though, if the pricing wasn't also so out of line.
Do you want to follow orders or make your own way?
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Star Citizen is already more impressive IMO and it's in Pre-Alpha. Elite is supposed to be fully released by Christmas.
Of course not having a joystick doesn't help since it seems like most of the older ones are made for them...
Well I think they are both very different perspectives on space sims.
What excites me about Elite is the go anywhere part - if you've looked into it you can see that it's truly open world (in a way Star Citizen is not); you can jump to any system in the known galaxy, and stop at any point within that star system.
It's a true sandbox with trading and fighting integrated in a smart fashion.
Star citizen is a hyper granular simulation of space dog fighting... it's easier to name stuff it doesn't simulate when talking space ships. It's also got exploration and trading, but you'll be zoning into discreet areas in a much noticeable fashion, due in part to how demanding the sim is.
Both look great to me!
Do you mean the physical display of the damage model? Then yeah, Star Citizen wins that contest hands down. Elite is going to have visual damage models for the bigger ships, but they said it's pretty doubtful if they will have it for the smaller ones. If you are talking about damage models in terms of what you can actually do to ships, then you are pretty wrong - you can target subsystems in Elite and since the TTK is actually longer than Star Citizen's seconds doing so can actually provide you benefits. You can do things like target weapons, blow open cargo hatches for loot, or take out a pilot's life support to force him out of the fight before his ship is down, and some weapons are better at targeting subsystems then others. That's my current problem with Star Citizen: despite it's incredibly detailed damage model, TTK is so low that it's rather irrelevant and might as well be a die-roll for a graphical effect before your target blows up (I expect/hope this to change as the iterate on damage values and such in future patches).
Elite's 'turn fighting' also lends itself to longer TTK's, though saying it's just a turn-fighting simulator is the result of not using your other options in combat (reverse, lateral, horizontal thrust). I like both games, but its basically comparing that to Star Citizens space-turret gameplay (high turn rate, slow actual speeds), so I'm not sure which one I actually like better. Winning a dogfight feels like more of an accomplishment in Elite, though Star Citizen has this fun and silly Tokyo-drift thing going on.
Both games will hypothetically overlap in their final features, it is just that Elite is doing the base game first and adding planetary stuff, etc. as expansions, and Star Citizen is trying to do everything at once. I have the feeling that Elite will progress faster than Star Citizen because Star Citizen is probably going to run into issues where they can't release something in one module because they are waiting for a thing in another module to be finished, but who knows. I think that both final games will be very fun, but their tone will probably be different: Elite has this cold, brutal and lonely space thing going on, while Star Citizen is all flashy and 'realistic' unrealism.
Nintendo Network ID: imperialparadox | 3DS FC: 2294-4029-6793
XBL Gamertag: Paradox3351 | PSN: imperialparadox
The game has got a lot going for it. That sound design is just plain AMAZING.
Both are ok, but no X levels of economic simming.
You know, one of the things that really irritates me is how people believe that games with "Newtonian" physics somehow represent what space combat would be in a more realistic manner than games that have spacecraft behave as if they were airplanes in an atmosphere. You see one episode of BSG and everyone thinks they're an expert on how space combat would really work without even thinking it through.
Let me clear this up for you. Newtonian space combat as portrayed in any current or in production video game is about as far away from realistic as anything could be. If being some sort of space purist is holding you back from enjoying a space "sim" with a more "conventional" flight model, it shouldn't.