GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Just got around to listening to last Tuesday's podcast. Sometimes Dan's midwesterness makes me want to punch a kitten. "Drugs are illegal, and you should arrest people doing illegal things! ALWAYS. LAWS ARE LAWS". That sort of submission to authority with no critical thought makes me ill. To his credit, he started to come down from the ledge when Jeff started to point out the absurdity, but his willingness to just accept the unjustness of a system simply because it's the authoritative system is disturbing.
In other news, Destiny continues to be a polarizing game that no one seems to like, but everyone seems to continue playing. Essentially that's my argument for it being an MMO, regardless of other qualifiers. MMO's are the only genre where everyone seems to hate the game they are playing, but still plays it obsessively. A month and some change in to release and there are still 50-75 people playing Destiny every night on my PS4 list.
Giant Bomb seems to be the only site so far, where I've read a Bayonetta 2 review, and dared to tread into the comments and have not seen rampant jackassery, but rather lots of people excited about the good reviews and talking about buying a Wii U for it.
As someone who grew up in the midwest I knew (or knew of) a lot of people who did drugs of the illegal variety and even more who had extremely permissive attitudes toward them. I can't say that I knew a lot of people who would have agreed with that sentiment from Dan however.
Rehab on
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CrayonSleeps in the wrong bed.TejasRegistered Userregular
Just got around to listening to last Tuesday's podcast. Sometimes Dan's midwesterness makes me want to punch a kitten. "Drugs are illegal, and you should arrest people doing illegal things! ALWAYS. LAWS ARE LAWS". That sort of submission to authority with no critical thought makes me ill. To his credit, he started to come down from the ledge when Jeff started to point out the absurdity, but his willingness to just accept the unjustness of a system simply because it's the authoritative system is disturbing.
In other news, Destiny continues to be a polarizing game that no one seems to like, but everyone seems to continue playing. Essentially that's my argument for it being an MMO, regardless of other qualifiers. MMO's are the only genre where everyone seems to hate the game they are playing, but still plays it obsessively. A month and some change in to release and there are still 50-75 people playing Destiny every night on my PS4 list.
I genuinely like it. A lot. I also imagine if people are continuing to play it they quite like it also but are stuck in the feedback loop looking for an exit in rush hour traffic.
+1
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
As I said, to Dan's credit, he seemed to quickly realize the absurdity in what he was saying when Jeff and Matt pointed out that nearly 1% of our adult population is in prison, the large majority of which are there on drug charges.
It really just seemed like a thing he had never considered before. He really seems like someone who has lived in a bubble their whole life. He's not averse to going outside of it at least, and he adapts pretty willingly, but he won't do so of his own volition without prompting.
+1
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
It really just seemed like a thing he had never considered before. He really seems like someone who has lived in a bubble their whole life. He's not averse to going outside of it at least, and he adapts pretty willingly, but he won't do so of his own volition without prompting.
And I guess at it's core, that's what bothers me so much. His total unwillingness to push himself to be a better person, someone else has to do the pushing. It's an unconscionable mindset to me. It's great that he comes around so quickly when presented with though provocation, but I wish he even cared a little bit about making some of those discoveries himself. Who knows, maybe San Francisco will rub off on him a little. Or maybe I expect too much of others. Little of column A, little of column B I guess.
It really just seemed like a thing he had never considered before. He really seems like someone who has lived in a bubble their whole life. He's not averse to going outside of it at least, and he adapts pretty willingly, but he won't do so of his own volition without prompting.
And I guess at it's core, that's what bothers me so much. His total unwillingness to push himself to be a better person, someone else has to do the pushing. It's an unconscionable mindset to me. It's great that he comes around so quickly when presented with though provocation, but I wish he even cared a little bit about making some of those discoveries himself. Who knows, maybe San Francisco will rub off on him a little. Or maybe I expect too much of others. Little of column A, little of column B I guess.
This doesn't bother me, because as much as he may be unwilling to push himself, he has absolutely no issue standing down and listening to and learning from other voices.
BBC has an article based on an interview with Brianna Wu (or perhaps based on her MSNBC appearance) which calls out GB pretty hard with regards to their relative silence on GG on the main site.
I feel like the guys have all made their positions pretty clear on Twitter, and Patrick and Alex haven't been too shy about talking about it on Bombin', but it's pretty bonkers this has been going on for two months and they haven't really said anything else.
I mean, I don't know what you say other than "hey idiots, don't fucking harass people and gtfo if you're going to quibble about this" but some mention of it on the site from someone other than Patrick or Alex would be nice.
BBC has an article based on an interview with Brianna Wu (or perhaps based on her MSNBC appearance) which calls out GB pretty hard with regards to their relative silence on GG on the main site.
I feel like the guys have all made their positions pretty clear on Twitter, and Patrick and Alex haven't been too shy about talking about it on Bombin', but it's pretty bonkers this has been going on for two months and they haven't really said anything else.
I mean, I don't know what you say other than "hey idiots, don't fucking harass people and gtfo if you're going to quibble about this" but some mention of it on the site from someone other than Patrick or Alex would be nice.
Yeah the fact that the website, the public face of the company, was silent for almost the entire fiasco was really disappointing. I'm glad there is finally an article, but it took way too long.
Unless they talk about it on the Bombcast they've still done basically nothing
They think people like Jeff and Dan are "the good ones" and "on their side"
They don't give a fuck about Patrick or Alex and them speaking out changes no minds because anyone who considers themselves a part of Gamergate already ignores Patrick
Unless they talk about it on the Bombcast they've still done basically nothing
They think people like Jeff and Dan are "the good ones" and "on their side"
They don't give a fuck about Patrick or Alex and them speaking out changes no minds because anyone who considers themselves a part of Gamergate already ignores Patrick
I want JEFF writing articles and discussing it
No, Giant Bomb is roundly criticized in gamergate circles, Jeff especially for his rant against the term gamer at PAX
It really just seemed like a thing he had never considered before. He really seems like someone who has lived in a bubble their whole life. He's not averse to going outside of it at least, and he adapts pretty willingly, but he won't do so of his own volition without prompting.
And I guess at it's core, that's what bothers me so much. His total unwillingness to push himself to be a better person, someone else has to do the pushing. It's an unconscionable mindset to me. It's great that he comes around so quickly when presented with though provocation, but I wish he even cared a little bit about making some of those discoveries himself. Who knows, maybe San Francisco will rub off on him a little. Or maybe I expect too much of others. Little of column A, little of column B I guess.
But why would he push himself to 'be better' on a subject like drug laws if he doesn't realize that there's a problem with his view in the first place?
It's way more important for people to be open to different points of view when presented with them, which he consistently has been.
Harping on someone for not being up on something they have little to no experience with seems a bit strange, especially if they're willing to listen to constructive criticism of their views when the subject comes up.
If he had gotten defensive and dug in his heels when the other guys disagreed with him, I could understand you having a problem with that. That's basically the opposite of how it went down though. Instead, you just seem strangely fixated on this. It feels like you're criticizing someone just because they haven't had the same cultural experiences as you.
Unless they talk about it on the Bombcast they've still done basically nothing
They think people like Jeff and Dan are "the good ones" and "on their side"
They don't give a fuck about Patrick or Alex and them speaking out changes no minds because anyone who considers themselves a part of Gamergate already ignores Patrick
I want JEFF writing articles and discussing it
I see what you are getting at, and yeah Jeff should probably write more than the letter from the editor he did wrote a few months ago, I just have a sneaking suspicion that even if Jeff were to explicitly call out the GG crowd, they would just ignore him as well.
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admanbunionize your workplaceSeattle, WARegistered Userregular
They would certainly ignore him outwardly, but it's not about changing specific minds as much as it's about changing the tone of public discourse.
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited October 2014
You aren't going to change the minds of the GamersGate crowd anyway, no matter who says what. For the most part the vocal minority that makes up the GG/Redpill crew aren't going to be swayed with logic or impassioned speeches from Jeff Gerstmann. Not to mention he did write a big letter from the editor right around the time GG was still a super hot topic. So now I guess he needs to write another letter? For what purpose? He made his thoughts, and the thoughts of GiantBomb clear. He's empowered the GB moderation team to get medieval when necessary to handle things that pop up (and Rorie has done a great job of it so far).
What happened to Brianna Wu is disgusting, and shouldn't be happening...but she's just lashing out at this point. Which is her right to do (and I don't blame her given the recent events), but lets recognize it for what it is.
CrayonSleeps in the wrong bed.TejasRegistered Userregular
My mind can't even reason why gamergate is even a thing. It feels like an amorphous blob given 'sentience' and the goal of "hate women" let loosed on the world and just refuses to die.
Jeff's letter from the editor was right after Dan and Jason were hired and everyone was up in arms that both were white males and it was directed to their forums and people fighting "for" GB on social media sites. The site has had next to no articles about Gamersgate whatsoever and from the outside we can't tell if that's due to CBSi's influence, fear to enter the fray/take a position, or something else entirely. I don't follow Gamespot so I don't know if they've done anything about it either. Alex and Patrick have been active on Twitter but that doesn't show on the site and isn't visible in the Bombcast where the majority of people are getting their GB fix.
My mind can't even reason why gamergate is even a thing. It feels like an amorphous blob given 'sentience' and the goal of "hate women" let loosed on the world and just refuses to die.
Because some people continue to insist that it isn't about women, but about video game journalism corruption
never mind the fact that the only people receiving the vast vast vast majority of abuse and being driven out of house and home are womanhey look over there
CrayonSleeps in the wrong bed.TejasRegistered Userregular
edited October 2014
Do ethics in video games journalism even really matter at all? If someone takes money from Activision and posts a good review what actual harm really comes from it? You're out $60 bucks and you can resell it anywhere for just about what you paid. I mean...Activision isn't dumping millions of gallons of radioactive waste in your Lake and the journalists are covering it up here. I think perspective has been lost here.
It's like questioning ethics from sportscasters giving their opinion on who to put on your fantasy football league. Who gives a shit?
Do ethics in video games journalism even really matter at all? If someone takes money from Activision and posts a good review what actual harm really comes from it? You're out $60 bucks and you can resell it anywhere for just about what you paid. I mean...Activision isn't dumping millions of gallons of radioactive waste in your Lake and the journalists are covering it up here. I think perspective has been lost here.
It's like questioning ethics from sportscasters giving their opinion on who to put on your fantasy football league. Who gives a shit?
You do realize how giant bomb was founded right?
Noone outright says it, but Jeff wrote a bad review of kane and lynch while the outlet took tons of money for the game and had huge adverts on their main site about it. He was fired the day it was published. Cue him founding GB, and having a unspoken settlement with his old employer. Noone will say he was fired for writing that review, but he was fired for writing that review.
Everyone on Giant Bomb was on gamergate's shitlist from the start, they are all on that infographic listing their enemies that came up right at the beginning of it all. Probably because of their proximity to and constant support of Patrick.
Any article they wrote about the subject would be ignored by the people involved in it, but that's fine because ideally it would be more for people who don't know about it. To let them know about this nonsense going on and how no there aren't two sides to this, one is unequivocally in the wrong.
Do ethics in video games journalism even really matter at all? If someone takes money from Activision and posts a good review what actual harm really comes from it? You're out $60 bucks and you can resell it anywhere for just about what you paid. I mean...Activision isn't dumping millions of gallons of radioactive waste in your Lake and the journalists are covering it up here. I think perspective has been lost here.
It's like questioning ethics from sportscasters giving their opinion on who to put on your fantasy football league. Who gives a shit?
Well yes. Is it #1 on the give-a-shit-ometer? No. But yes, it should matter.
But GG doesn't actually give a shit about it, or they would be throwing a fit about this.
Do ethics in video games journalism even really matter at all? If someone takes money from Activision and posts a good review what actual harm really comes from it? You're out $60 bucks and you can resell it anywhere for just about what you paid. I mean...Activision isn't dumping millions of gallons of radioactive waste in your Lake and the journalists are covering it up here. I think perspective has been lost here.
It's like questioning ethics from sportscasters giving their opinion on who to put on your fantasy football league. Who gives a shit?
Well yes. Is it #1 on the give-a-shit-ometer? No. But yes, it should matter.
But GG doesn't actually give a shit about it, or they would be throwing a fit about this.
That sounds like status quo to me(It's been that way for years). 'if you want prerelease copy, heres what you can and cant say in your review, when the embargo hits, and heres a bulletpoint list for what you have to include'. Lots of outlets decline, and just buy their own copy on release day instead.
Do ethics in video games journalism even really matter at all? If someone takes money from Activision and posts a good review what actual harm really comes from it? You're out $60 bucks and you can resell it anywhere for just about what you paid. I mean...Activision isn't dumping millions of gallons of radioactive waste in your Lake and the journalists are covering it up here. I think perspective has been lost here.
It's like questioning ethics from sportscasters giving their opinion on who to put on your fantasy football league. Who gives a shit?
Well yes. Is it #1 on the give-a-shit-ometer? No. But yes, it should matter.
But GG doesn't actually give a shit about it, or they would be throwing a fit about this.
That sounds like status quo to me(It's been that way for years). 'if you want prerelease copy, heres what you can and cant say in your review, when the embargo hits, and heres a bulletpoint list for what you have to include'. Lots of outlets decline, and just buy their own copy on release day instead.
Yeah, IIRC, basically what happened is there is a forever dance of game publishers buying ad space on review sites, those sites badly reviewing the game, and the publisher pulling the ad money in response. Rinse, repeat.
Gerstmann just had the misfortune of being under new management at the time, who were unaware of this, and basically freaked the fuck out and fired him.
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GoodKingJayIIIThey wanna get mygold on the ceilingRegistered Userregular
Did they stream that Destiny raid this weekend, and if so is it available to watch somewhere?
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In other news, Destiny continues to be a polarizing game that no one seems to like, but everyone seems to continue playing. Essentially that's my argument for it being an MMO, regardless of other qualifiers. MMO's are the only genre where everyone seems to hate the game they are playing, but still plays it obsessively. A month and some change in to release and there are still 50-75 people playing Destiny every night on my PS4 list.
Giant Bomb seems to be the only site so far, where I've read a Bayonetta 2 review, and dared to tread into the comments and have not seen rampant jackassery, but rather lots of people excited about the good reviews and talking about buying a Wii U for it.
I genuinely like it. A lot. I also imagine if people are continuing to play it they quite like it also but are stuck in the feedback loop looking for an exit in rush hour traffic.
And I guess at it's core, that's what bothers me so much. His total unwillingness to push himself to be a better person, someone else has to do the pushing. It's an unconscionable mindset to me. It's great that he comes around so quickly when presented with though provocation, but I wish he even cared a little bit about making some of those discoveries himself. Who knows, maybe San Francisco will rub off on him a little. Or maybe I expect too much of others. Little of column A, little of column B I guess.
This doesn't bother me, because as much as he may be unwilling to push himself, he has absolutely no issue standing down and listening to and learning from other voices.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
I feel like the guys have all made their positions pretty clear on Twitter, and Patrick and Alex haven't been too shy about talking about it on Bombin', but it's pretty bonkers this has been going on for two months and they haven't really said anything else.
I mean, I don't know what you say other than "hey idiots, don't fucking harass people and gtfo if you're going to quibble about this" but some mention of it on the site from someone other than Patrick or Alex would be nice.
Someone in the comments pointed out to him what she said in her interview.
Yeah the fact that the website, the public face of the company, was silent for almost the entire fiasco was really disappointing. I'm glad there is finally an article, but it took way too long.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
They think people like Jeff and Dan are "the good ones" and "on their side"
They don't give a fuck about Patrick or Alex and them speaking out changes no minds because anyone who considers themselves a part of Gamergate already ignores Patrick
I want JEFF writing articles and discussing it
No, Giant Bomb is roundly criticized in gamergate circles, Jeff especially for his rant against the term gamer at PAX
But why would he push himself to 'be better' on a subject like drug laws if he doesn't realize that there's a problem with his view in the first place?
It's way more important for people to be open to different points of view when presented with them, which he consistently has been.
Harping on someone for not being up on something they have little to no experience with seems a bit strange, especially if they're willing to listen to constructive criticism of their views when the subject comes up.
If he had gotten defensive and dug in his heels when the other guys disagreed with him, I could understand you having a problem with that. That's basically the opposite of how it went down though. Instead, you just seem strangely fixated on this. It feels like you're criticizing someone just because they haven't had the same cultural experiences as you.
I see what you are getting at, and yeah Jeff should probably write more than the letter from the editor he did wrote a few months ago, I just have a sneaking suspicion that even if Jeff were to explicitly call out the GG crowd, they would just ignore him as well.
What happened to Brianna Wu is disgusting, and shouldn't be happening...but she's just lashing out at this point. Which is her right to do (and I don't blame her given the recent events), but lets recognize it for what it is.
It probably was, this whole thing has gotten jumbled together in my head. I think it still applies though.
Because some people continue to insist that it isn't about women, but about video game journalism corruption
never mind the fact that the only people receiving the vast vast vast majority of abuse and being driven out of house and home are womanhey look over there
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
It's like questioning ethics from sportscasters giving their opinion on who to put on your fantasy football league. Who gives a shit?
You do realize how giant bomb was founded right?
Noone outright says it, but Jeff wrote a bad review of kane and lynch while the outlet took tons of money for the game and had huge adverts on their main site about it. He was fired the day it was published. Cue him founding GB, and having a unspoken settlement with his old employer. Noone will say he was fired for writing that review, but he was fired for writing that review.
Any article they wrote about the subject would be ignored by the people involved in it, but that's fine because ideally it would be more for people who don't know about it. To let them know about this nonsense going on and how no there aren't two sides to this, one is unequivocally in the wrong.
Well yes. Is it #1 on the give-a-shit-ometer? No. But yes, it should matter.
But GG doesn't actually give a shit about it, or they would be throwing a fit about this.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
That sounds like status quo to me(It's been that way for years). 'if you want prerelease copy, heres what you can and cant say in your review, when the embargo hits, and heres a bulletpoint list for what you have to include'. Lots of outlets decline, and just buy their own copy on release day instead.
Further proof
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Hard to believe this happened only 2 and a half years ago. So much has changed.
Slightly more complicated than that, but essentially yes that's what happened.
e: Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeev! :sad:
Gerstmann just had the misfortune of being under new management at the time, who were unaware of this, and basically freaked the fuck out and fired him.
Pretty disappointed to hear about yet another woman forced to leave her home. The whole thing is fucking gross.
PSN: Threeve703
At 10 AM this morning Polygon posted this article about how Amazon is the most fascinating company in video games right now.
39 minutes later, they then posted this article detailing Amazon's new games.
Maybe it's just me, but that seems a bit sketchy.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126